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This one yeah?

Hey all,
I'm feeling less than inspired with my rack, and I've spent more of my time than I care to admit, trying to find out how to best get more out of my rack, while not throwing thousands more dollars into a money pit. The more modules I sit down to try and learn about, and the more ways I figure out how to theoretically come up with a better system, none of it seems really wow me. I find myself still kind of sitting in bewildered confusion, and idk what I'm doing wrong.
A few of my modules I know I need to learn and understand more, but I still am not getting that "surprise" out of modular that I was hoping for. Of finding ways to patch things together that gives me something I wasn't planning on. While I can use my modular to further songs I currently have, I find myself constantly patching in the same ways. I'm unsure if it is just the fact that I need to spend more time actually using my modular, or if there's something that I'm completely missing; or the "dreaded" option that I just need more modules and parts. (And as stated, just looking and seeing HOW many different pieces and bits there are, it feels beyond daunting)
Apart from this case, I also have a Keystep Pro, a WMD Geiger Counter, and a Noise Engineering Loquelic Iteritas.

Any and all advice is immensely appreciated. I still feel like I'm a modular noob, finding their leggings, despite the fact that I've been in modular for about two years now.
Many thanks in advance for the help!

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1815404.jpg

Thanks!

ah ok, well you have an interesting project ahead of you, I wish you all the best with it.

You need to start with an understanding of a basic signal path and routing in a subtractive synth. lfo - vco, filter, envelope, vca

Another type of setup would be additive, look up those concepts, read about them:

Subtractive, additive, wavetables, granular and wave slicing methods, Physical modeling, AM, FM, TZFM,,,,,read, listen, think and learn.

-- GunnarWaage

I'm familiar with all of these things, I've been working in VCV rack and MAX/MSP for almost 2 years and I've done plenty of research throughout that time. It's just that personally, when it comes to things like this I get somewhat anxious and feel like I need to know what I'm doing isn't wrong, so I want advice from people more knowledgeable than me. That said I have researched everything I've picked out at the moment and feel good about them, I just want to ensure that nothing is wrong before I devote so much time and money to them. I don't view it as people making the choice for me, I look at their ideas and spend time researching them and decide what to do after that.

You need to start with an understanding of a basic signal path and routing in a subtractive synth. lfo - vco, filter, envelope, vca

Another type of setup would be additive, look up those concepts, read about them:

Subtractive, additive, wavetables, granular and wave slicing methods, Physical modeling, AM, FM, TZFM,,,,,read, listen, think and learn.

I have never asked for advice on what modules to get and I will not offer it either. With your basic understanding of the signal flow, you then read about and listen to all the modules available at a given moment.

Compare sound, functions, ease or difficulty in operating them and ask youself, will they give you the result you are hearing or want to hear. Since you are going DIY you can afford to get a relatively stronger setup.

The rule is, don't look for complicating your setup, find out which are the building blocks of a functioning system. Do the study and don't ask people to make those choices for you, you'll be taking the enjoyment out of it that comes with study and hard work, enjoy the process.

@Sweelinck's link above directs to the same image as displayed...

things I'd point out - the chord organ might be difficult to source... the teensy 3.2 is very difficult to find (probably end of lifed)

and the instruo ceis is quite expensive - you might want to look at the befaco vc adsr & it couldt be a good alternative and is available as a kit (or pcb/panel set)

-- JimHowell1970

Weird, it linked to the old one when I tried it out earlier, I've got very spotty wifi right now that's probably why. Thanks for the reccomendation, I'd rather do a kit anyways and cheaper is always nice.
I've also found a near exact dupe of the chord organ but updated to the newer teensy, though im struggling to find it again so maybe i made it up in my head.

Hello, Stefano! KAIROS has completely independent outputs. Regardless of which output mode you choose, it will still be free. However, you can link different outputs to make them work together, such as CV note and gate.

@Sweelinck's link above directs to the same image as displayed...

for future reference copy & paste the url...

things I'd point out - the chord organ might be difficult to source... the teensy 3.2 is very difficult to find (probably end of lifed)

and the instruo ceis is quite expensive - you might want to look at the befaco vc adsr & it couldt be a good alternative and is available as a kit (or pcb/panel set)

Okay so I've added quite a bit, I'm wondering if anything is too redundant, and if anyone has any other ideas to fill it out. Since it's a school project I'm going to be completing it slowly over the course of the year, and probably won't even have all the modules at that time, it's going to be a slower process. With that said what should I be prioritizing? The sloth chaos and ai001 multiple are definitely going to be first as I'm DIYing them, and I think I'll try and get the morphagene after that, because the whole point is very textured, sample heavy sounds. Beyond those I'm not sure the order I should get modules in.![]

EDITED Oct 6th 2023, 21:24

interesting...but I wonder using it as a sequencer: if I use an output like "cv note" is it free or does it automatically have another output like "gate"? please show some more video

I think you need just One White or Silver module ;-)

Maybe an MG feature could/should be to add translation to English, though most browsers will translate for you if you right click.

Forse una funzionalità di MG potrebbe essere quella di aggiungere la traduzione in inglese, anche se la maggior parte dei browser tradurrà per te se fai clic con il pulsante destro del mouse.

I really wish I could speak more than a handfull of words from German, Spanish, French and Japanese. Such a good skill to have that I wish was taught when I was at school.

hi..no I solved it...did I make the connections wrong? everything ok.. the module is perfect

& again the translation, from google (it literally takes 30 seconds), please include this in future, for the wider community...

"Hi, I have it and it works.
can you specify the problem? or make a video? maybe it's defective?

the 2hp verb is the bomb, I don't think I'll ever sell it, in fact maybe I'll buy others. It's a reverb though, not a delay"

Buongiorno a tutti, nella mia catena Doepfer ho inseriti il modulo Delay 2hp...ma la risposta Delay che ho ottenuto, non mi ha soddisfatto, faccio Fatica ad ottenere effetti di ripetizione...successo anche a voi? Penso di sostituire con 2hp Verb
-- shpe

ciao, io ce l'ho e funziona .
puoi specificare il problema? o fare un video? magari è difettoso?

il 2hp verb è una bomba, penso non lo venderò mai, anzi magari ne prendo altri. è un reverb però, non un delay

i definitely agree with users here telling feedback system need to be upgraded/improved. Should we open a thread or send a collective email to the administrators/moderators of modulargrid?
I encounter several user having bad experience and writing to them without gettin a useful response or a response at all.

here's my suggestions:

1) separate "buyer feedbacks" from "seller feedbacks"
2) add neutro feedback
3) add comment section to publicly discuss in case of negative or neutro

especially the first thing i guess would be easy to add

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking of diving into eurorack DIY and want to upgrade my Black System 3. I realy like to get Befaco AC/DC module to connect this system to my PC, with this setup I would use vst fx, so Black DSP is not that important anymore. Instead of DSP I would get Rampage. I use Y type cables, so multi isn't that important too? Any other changes was only to see what could I change into diy modules without loosing og functionality of the system.
Are these changes making sence?
What about Even VCOs? I do like smaller footprint and double 1v/oct input, but I never heard Even VCO and Black VCO sound side by side.
Any other advices about more diy modules are appreciated.

Thank You.

EDITED Oct 6th 2023, 09:47

This helps out a ton thank you so much for taking the time to type all that out. I don't mind the bias at all I'd definitely do the same thing

-- amulet

Well I'm glad it did, and you're more than welecome! Happy to share as much as I can where and when I can.

Hopefully that helps somehow, I had a list of suggestions ealier but they've sadly all escaped my head at the moment.

-- danlegg

This helps out a ton thank you so much for taking the time to type all that out. I don't mind the bias at all I'd definitely do the same thing

I definitely need to add some, any ideas on some good ones? I've been thinking maybe polaris for a filter and I'm unsure about modulation, there's just so many modules its hard to pick out specific ones

-- amulet

I'll start with the filters first because that one is probably the easiest. Polaris great filter option in my opinion. Humpback is one I'd recommend (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/god-s-box-humpback-filter). The dopfer wasp (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/doepfer-a-124-se) is another I'd suggest as a good one to have in your rack in general. If you wanted a more "Moog" sounding LP filter I'd suggest the FWE Transistor Ladder Filter (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/fully-wired-electronics-transistor-ladder-filter), I've got a heavy personal bias towards it so you'll have to forgive me there but I'm just suggesting what I use. Its got that traditional rich moog sound whilst also being designed to sound like its got a 303 squelch when the resonance is cranked. Again excuse the personal bias, but its very affordable like most of the FWE modules. That said they are the filters I would go for personally.

Modulation I'd say Maths (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/make-noise-maths--), Batumi (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/xaoc-devices-batumi), OCHD (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/divkid-ochd) to name a couple. Not necessarily modulation as such, but one sequencer I absolutely love is the Stochastic Inspiration Generator/ SIG+ (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/stochastic-instruments-sig-4-track-stochastic-inspiration-generator). Pairing that with the Mini-Logic (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/fully-wired-electronics-mini-logic) or Multi-Logic (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/fully-wired-electronics-multi-logic), or any boolean logic based module for that matter, then patching one of the outputs into an envelope generator can be fantastic for generative or ambient patches. I totally understand what you mean about picking one out, it can be very overwhelming as there's so many of them.

Interms of utility I think it really depends on where you want to take your system and what control you want over it. If you want attenuators or something along those lines I'd suggest the Motion Mtr (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/befaco-motion-mtr) or the DPA (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/fully-wired-electronics-dual-passive-attenuator). Personal bias again (really sorry but I really am suggesting what I use daily and what I know), the DPS can be great for routing signals around your rack (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/fully-wired-electronics-dual-passive-switch). I really like using mute modules myself, especailly for generative and ambient patches, which I'd would personally use the MQM (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/fully-wired-electronics-mini-quad-mute), but the DivKid Mutes (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/divkid-mutes) would be a great alternative.

I'm not sure how you might intergrate it but Pams is a great module as well in my opinion (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/alm-busy-circuits-pamela-s-new-workout-). Disting (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/expert-sleepers-disting-mk4) might be a powerful module to have.

Hopefully that helps somehow, I had a list of suggestions ealier but they've sadly all escaped my head at the moment.

There are some great passive and active utility modules out there that will probably help you make your system more interactive, but perhaps you might want to look at getting some more modulation sources and filters?
-- danlegg

I definitely need to add some, any ideas on some good ones? I've been thinking maybe polaris for a filter and I'm unsure about modulation, there's just so many modules its hard to pick out specific ones

If you are a student, you should start by learning the basics...
Here is one of the most recommendable sources: Learning Modular.
https://learningmodular.com/

-- Sweelinck

I'm familiar with the basics, I've done tons of research and have been interested in modular for ~2 years now. I mostly meant I wasn't familiar enough with a wide variety of modules, so I'm not sure what to pick. That website does look very helpful though thank you!

I started this build in Jan 2019 with the piston honda module as I wanted to build a modular unit based on wavetable synthesis. I installed the last module in Apr 2022 and I'm very happy with what I've assembled. I didn't plan to install quite as many Mutable modules as I ended up with but quite frankly they are fabulous devices and the more I learnt about Eurorack, the more I realised how useful these were. I intend to replace the DIY Synthesis mixer, with another A138, which will give me some additional space for something else in the future.

I agree with Sweelinck, learningmodular is a great place to start learning the basics. There are some great resources on Youtube as well.

The DIY approach is definitely a good way of getting into modular, thats how I got into it when I was a student and I now design modules as my 9-5.

There are some great passive and active utility modules out there that will probably help you make your system more interactive, but perhaps you might want to look at getting some more modulation sources and filters?

If you are a student, you should start by learning the basics...
Here is one of the most recommendable sources: Learning Modular.
https://learningmodular.com/

It includes in particular the following:
https://courses.learningmodular.com/courses/basic-concepts
https://learningmodular.com/glossary/
Etc.

If I may, 'Fiat lux' ;)

Linked store in description goes 404:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modular-maculata-midside-job

(would be rad if there were a "flag as no longer available" option on the module detail view)

Hi everyone, I'm a student doing a yearlong project where I'm building a eurorack. A lot of it will be DIY, but I'm trying to plan out some premade modules as well. I want to make very textured music with samples, kind of sound collage-y stuff. I just want to ask for module reccomendations that might be good for that, or any other advice someone may have. This is what I have so far, the AI001 multiple and sloth chaos module are there because I'm going to be DIYing them, I'm still not sure if I want nebulae or morphagene. Everything else is just things I thought I might benefit from. Obviously this is unfinished and theres a ton missing, I know I need more utilites and other things but I don't have enough knowledge about many different modules to know what else I might need, so I figured I'd ask here. Thanks for any advice.
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2354487.jpg![]
(Idk how to post the photo sorry)

I think eweryone need to follow their own path. I see nothing wrong with your setup but it would not be my choice, but who cares.

About the power, just make sure that the small 4 hp power supply modules have enough juice. Some modules take up more power and if there isnt enough you can end up frying them, i lost two modules that way. I don't like to give a lot of advice, but I would recomend that you look into using dedicated transformers.

I have been using those and they have worked really well, the guy is also very helpful. He also sells rails.

https://modularsynthlab.com/product/eurorack-power-kit-modular-synth-power-kit/

EDITED Oct 5th 2023, 03:39

Currently asking myself the same question. Due to space constraints with my current setup I'm trying to decide if I want to replace my current oscillators with a complex oscillator module, or use my existing oscillators alongside something like an SSF Zephyr or ZPO. Currently leaning towards the latter, or just picking up a Befaco Pony for now since I could easily keep that in the rack if I change my ind later. Finding a good deal on a Cs-L might tip my hand, though.

I got started with a cheap 12u 19" rack with a Tiptop HAK and a Neutron in it, adding more HAKs as my collection grew. Only reason I converted over to a more traditional case was because A) I found I wasn't actually using my setup very often and B) my Microcell has noise issues with ribbon cable based power supplies. I'm using it a lot more often now that I can just set it up on my bed or easily haul it over to a friend's place.
I don't see why using a big rack like this is a problem if you're already OK with using it in a fixed studio-like environment. There's no rule saying you need to fill it up entirely. The part of the rack below sitting/standing level just takes the place of a desk or whatever you'd be putting a smaller 19" rack on top of to elevate it to a usable level. They're overpriced, but you could also fill the lower levels up with 19" mountable drawers for storing gear. I've actually got my guitar pedals set up in drawers as a loop hooked up to my patch bay, but I'm having to rethink that for the same reason I wasn't using my eurorack gear as often as I'd like. I'm just not suited towards having everything anchored to my desk and PC.

I found the outs by intellijel which will connect my module to the inteface. I would want to look inot a mixer to blend the synth with a recent module I found:

I found the evaton rf nomad shortwave reciever. Its a reciver that produces noisy/ominous sounds. A perfect fit for my dark ambient/noise eurorack build!
How would I go about connecting both the nomad + minibrute 2s/modules into my audio inferface?

Richtext Editor in the Marketplace

The Richtext editor is now available in the marketplace section.

ImageUpload in the Richtext Editor

Ever noticed the small image icon in the top right of the Richtext editor? That used to insert the markdown syntax for images. Now it lets you upload images and they will be displayed inline in the forum texts and marketplace offers.
An experimental feature that might be reverted.

Let's start with image No 1, a must have for every modular user: my potted plant.

A very nice sound module..

Using 19" racks for eurorack modules is odd

I should ask a few people around here why they use them. Maybe I just live in an odd place :D

I see you like grouping your modules by manufacturer/series, As you expand, you will probably not be splitting your modular up very often.

Yeah, I am still deciding how I will do this going forward. I want to be able to play my System 100 by itself with minimum fuss, I'll probably keep my Dreadbox modules together (asthetics), but everything else will need to be rearranged. As mentioned before, I have a lot of modules that are not in racks and I'll have to find a good workflow for them. I am far less interested in these ones being grouped by anything other than functionality.

It is going to be a significant task, especially working over (potentially) 14 rows, but a fun one! :)

Using 19" racks for eurorack modules is odd. Using them for standard rackmount gear is not.
I see you like grouping your modules by manufacturer/series, As you expand, you will probably not be splitting your modular up very often.

won't the bands want to use your modular??? are you trying to hide it from them? hahaha

They may, but the thought of most musicians using my modular gear is terrifying... :P

Plus, my studio is not a dedicated synth lab. Every surface/rack/shelf/piece of furniture increases the complexity of getting things to sound the way that I want them, so everything that is not being used needs to be easily able to roll out of the room. I spend my life moving speaker cabs, amps, mic stands, racks of guitars etc in and out of the studio :D

I think the b-company sell a knock off version that's cheaper...

Yeah, they probably do, and it'll likely be fine for what I want to do. I should still investigate making my own as I might be able to save a fair bit of money.

What bands are going to want to record using your eurorack modules?

Hopefully none of them. Putting shiny toys in front of guitarists or drummers is rarely a good idea. (a) they break and/or try to lick everything they see, (b) they suddenly see 'options' and want to put modular sounds into every song because x band did it. 6 months later they are still in the studio...

Option paralysis is a really problem for a lot of bands, so there is no point creating that problem for yourself. 90% of the time bands simply need to record the material that they have already rehearsed, not add last minute changes based on whim.

And you are doing them a favour too. Studio time is not cheap.

I realized quickly that being confined to 19" in width wasn't ergonomic for anything over 5 minutes of noodling because I had to stand as well as bend down to reach anything not at eye-level

Yeah, that was a compromise that I had to make to get the lowest possible footprint, mobility and co-location. I figured that I'd mostly work on approximately 15ru at standing eye level, 15ru at sitting level (30 out of 42ru), and use less accessable lower levels for shelves, draws etc.

I was originally considering multiple 10 to 15ru racks, and even bought a couple of 10ru stackable/modular racks. While I like that I can use these either stacked on their side or upright -- with the modules facing me (horizontally, like a table top arrangement) -- they are far too deep (60cm) for my liking. I am now using them for my rackmount amps, with a compressor, EQ, limiter and gate in each rack, but also as mobile power outlets over the far side of the studio.

I used to have the four post type (like the one you are talking about), but found it's footprint to be far to big

I was originally looking for something other than a 4 post rack (such as a 2 post telecom rack), but actually found this one to have the smallest footprint (that was actually my primary criterion, along with having castors). It has an adjustable depth, and can either be 51cm or 41cm -- the depth I will use -- which is nice and thin. I was surprised that a 4 post rack was the thinnest option.

While using a rack intended for 19" rack gear is an odd idea

I find it interesting that it is only online that people find this odd. 80% of people that I know in real life use 19" racks, and the other 20% are aware of it as an option or have used them before. It must be a regional thing.

Or perhaps a live use thing? Being able to pull rows straight out of the studio rack to plug into travel racks/flight cases is a huge advantage.

EDITED Oct 3rd 2023, 21:54

I always do my research before buying any gear, read the manual and some reviews, check out everything you can find on youtube.

-- GunnarWaage

this is very good advice... far better than any recommendation for a module that some random person on the internet can give...

What modules are in piles outside of your current racks?

What bands are going to want to record using your eurorack modules?

While using a rack intended for 19" rack gear is an odd idea, I actually used to have a customized eurorack setup in one of mine. It worked well like that until I outgrew it. As my modular grew, I realized quickly that being confined to 19" in width wasn't ergonomic for anything over 5 minutes of noodling because I had to stand as well as bend down to reach anything not at eye-level.

I have three 19" server racks in my studio that are stuffed with my rackmount gear. They are single-sided (the posts are centered on the bases) and I simply added casters to them from Home Depot so they can easily roll when necesarry. Server racks are easy to come by in the $50 - $100 ballpark on OfferUp or whatever. I used to have the four post type (like the one you are talking about), but found it's footprint to be far to big and using both the front and back was totally unpractical.
Of course, we all have different needs and ideas. I hope this helps!

Well you can make it sound any way you like, I'd say check out some videos, dual vco's are for sound design, on the other end you have something like Plaits which gives you presets. Spectral Processors are also effective when it comes to ambiance. I always do my research before buying any gear, read the manual and some reviews, check out everything you can find on youtube.

The most versatile complex VCO I have used is the Furthrrrr from Endorphin.es. It also has TZFM Through-Zero Frequency Modulation which the DPO doesnt have. I have TZFM though in some of my other ones and I don't use it much. I highly recommend the Furthrrrr.

To me a complex vco is an absolute must.

My favorite and goto is the DPO. For wavetables I use the Shapeshifter. I also have 1010 music MOK Waverazor which is very effective but a highly specialized dual vco. I also have the Bataleur by Birdkids which has dual vco capabilities.

I was using the Furthrrrr Generator and it really is fantastic, however I decided to let it go and stick to the DPO, it is when all is said and done the character that i like the most and thats ultimately what it comes down to for me, taste.

But for less than 120 euros you can get Doepfer A-110-4 Thru Zero Quad VCO SE.

With that one you can start experimenting with what you already have like the guys are suggesting.

Good luck
-- GunnarWaage

I heard that the DPO sounds like rubber and is limited to this character. I guess its not very versetaile?

For what do you use the DPO?
Can you tell me some more of its benefits, suiting to your needs?

To me a complex vco is an absolute must.

My favorite and goto is the DPO. For wavetables I use the Shapeshifter. I also have 1010 music MOK Waverazor which is very effective but a highly specialized dual vco. I also have the Bataleur by Birdkids which has dual vco capabilities.

I was using the Furthrrrr Generator and it really is fantastic, however I decided to let it go and stick to the DPO, it is when all is said and done the character that i like the most and thats ultimately what it comes down to for me, taste.

But for less than 120 euros you can get Doepfer A-110-4 Thru Zero Quad VCO SE.

With that one you can start experimenting with what you already have like the guys are suggesting.

Good luck

A nice little sequencer from Robaux.
Pretty straightforward build, could be good for a beginner as 3rd or later kit.

Lots of power and options available. You will want to spend time learning the modes and button presses, it’s not too complicated, but you do need to get used to it. Would be great in a performance setting after you’ve practiced with it for an hour or so.
By the way, mostly a single camera build cuz my side camera got confused.

Will be going in my main rack.

Build

In terms of music - I mostly do variations of ambient, but would want to do something more hard (industrial)

-- dithegrey

Sounds good. Depending on what other gear you already have, I'd say both of my filter recommendations remain in this case. QPAS for the spacey ambient side and FSS Timbral Sculptor for the heavier sounds.

I suggest anything from Noise Engineering for Industrial (and everthing else). Their complete voices (Cursus Iteritas Percido and Loquelic Iteritas Percido) are perfect for your starter kit, as they are fully formed and ready to go anywhere you want to take them as well as other worlds you never knew exsisted.

QPAS is great. It has a very unique character that may or may not be what you are looking for. If you are looking for a more "vintage" sounding filter or something with self-oscillating resonance, QPAS might be a good second filter. Be sure to watch some demo videos (MylarMelodies and DivKid have good demos for QPAS). I would recommend taking a look at the Future Sound Systems Timbral Sculptor too. That thing never fails to impress me.
You didn't mention what kind of music you are hoping to make with modular. Maybe give us some details so that we can steer you in the right direction.
Have fun and good luck!

-- farkas

In terms of music - I mostly do variations of ambient, but would want to do something more hard (industrial)

I finally worked out a final solution for my piles of modules that aren't in racks...

I bought a 42ru rack: https://www.titanav.co/products/titan-av-42ru-19-adjustable-open-rack

I really like that this thing is on wheels, as I need to be able to roll it out of my studio when bands are in to record.

won't the bands want to use your modular??? are you trying to hide it from them? hahaha

JimHowell1970 suggest Befaco, which I'll look into. Are they modular in their design, or will I need multiples?

indeed I do... they're not modular and you'd need multiples - one per 2 or 3 rows & somewhere to mount them - shelves perhaps...

Also, is the TipTop Happy Ending still the cheapest way to get ears and z rails? Would it be cheaper to build my own?

I'd have thought that buying rails and inserts (or nuts, if you prefer) and ears separately would be cheapest - but don't know... also depends where you are etc... I think the b-company sell a knock off version that's cheaper...

JOMOX Modbase 09 MK 2...
Kick drum from JOMOX Alphabase with CV control and saved presets.
-- bopodoq

Oh yeah now we're talking! I love using my Jomox kick drum bass module with Hot Glue compressor and distortion makes serious beefy kick drums!

get a eurorack compressor mixer with distortion like Mutant Hot Glue. Erica Synths makes a good drum mixer with a compressor as well as Endorphin.es has Cockpit. I use these a lot with my modular drums to beef them up for kicks and snares.