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longer cables & layout - see above... you may find that you want to use your current 6u 104hp case as a control skiff in front if the 15u is vertical - I find that I prefer sequencers, controllers, end of chain mixer etc are best horizontal and at the front
OK, thats probably ergonomically better to have it horizontally or what is the matter?
The Case is not entirely straight. Its straight at the top but concave towards the bottom.
I didn´t think about new cables that will add cost of course.
not really, more an extrapolation of what I was doing with a smaller case... more voices to patch (potentially) - use more utilities to make the most of modulation (multing, combining, inverting, attenuating etc) so less modulation sources can be used to modulate more modules... with related modulation... so things fit together better...
Sounds like the way I like to work anyway... nice
Do you work on patches for a longer time than in a small case?
probably - they take longer to patch - and take longer to finesse
Regarding mixers, I finally gave in trying to find something I'd be happy with in-rack and ended up buying an external mixer, the Tascam Model 12. It's a digital mixer (6 mono / 2 stereo channels) that handles eurorack levels well. With it I can also record on an SD card on the unit or use it as a multi-track audio interface to record to computer.
-- PragmaticusMax
Good to now! I´m also interested in the tascam Mixers... Do you know if this is true for the bigger models as well? The Model 12 is the only digital one, right?
Regarding mixers, I finally gave in trying to find something I'd be happy with in-rack and ended up buying an external mixer, the Tascam Model 12. It's a digital mixer (6 mono / 2 stereo channels) that handles eurorack levels well. With it I can also record on an SD card on the unit or use it as a multi-track audio interface to record to computer.
Basically it's 10 3u frames in 5 rows. (2x 84hp wide and 15u height)
this way i can also fit 19"outboard or a 500 rack inside.
-- ak47exe
that's a decent size and layout!
What did change for you when you switched to a bigger setup?
longer cables & layout - see above... you may find that you want to use your current 6u 104hp case as a control skiff in front if the 15u is vertical - I find that I prefer sequencers, controllers, end of chain mixer etc are best horizontal and at the front
Do you work differently?
not really, more an extrapolation of what I was doing with a smaller case... more voices to patch (potentially) - use more utilities to make the most of modulation (multing, combining, inverting, attenuating etc) so less modulation sources can be used to modulate more modules... with related modulation... so things fit together better...
a bigger case also opens up different lavels of control... for example vcas are no longer just for modulation and note shaping... they are now also for gain control over time (ie autonated mixing) - which is i suppose a different way of working - still working on this
one thing I do have that's really useful in this size & bigger cases & with larger numbers of voices is a sinfonion... really handy for keeping things in key and supplying chordal notes on top of 3-4 'melodic/bass' voices - also really helps in terms of arrangement - as you can alter the octave ramge of voices...
also a bigger mixer is useful - I'm using a tesseract tex-mix - currently with 12 mono channels and 4 stereo channels
Do you work on patches for a longer time than in a small case?
probably - they take longer to patch - and take longer to finesse
Is it somehow harder or more easy to build a sound?
the same... there are just more modules to choose from...
Was it a good step or do you regret it it any way?
more choice is good... more voices are good... so a good step...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I am new to modular but not new to synthesis concepts. I understand the basic concepts of subtractive synthesis, but the West Pest is a bit different than what I am used to as it uses a low pass gate instead of an Envelope + VCA.
I would like to have the Doepfer A-140 control the attack of the West Pest's amplitude. I have tried patching as shown and am not able to trigger the envelope. The patch points with yellow text on the left side of the West Pest patch bay are the audio/cv inputs and the white text ones are the outputs.
To my understanding, a low pass gate takes the place of a filter, envelope, and VCA of a traditional east coast style substractive synth.
The A-140's light stays on when powered on with nothing plugged into the patch points, and stays lit when I have it patched as shown. From videos I have seen the LED brightness is supposed to follow the ADSR stages when triggered properly. Is it normal operation for the LED to stay lit when not patched into anything?
What am I missing? Thanks in advance for any/all help- excited to slowly build my rack over time, but have to start with the basics.
it's not really a much bigger case than the one you already have... only 60hp more for 3u modules + a 1u row
is this in addition to the 6u 104hp case you already have or a replacement? as an addition it's fine - although I'd probably go for a 104hp case so they can be arranged better and not be ciffering widths, if it's a replacement, then there's not a lot of extra space to grow into - so the next case will be wanted/needed sooner rather than later
if 30u:
I really wouldn't want a monolithic 30u x 84hp rack...
I'd go wider and lower - I have, effectively, 18u * 188hp - made up of 4 cases (2 * 9u 104hp, 2 * 9u 84hp) so that the lower 2 are near horizontal and the upper 2 are near vertical... this is much easier to deal with than 30u straight up imo - so I'd halve it vertically and double the width to give 15u 168hp - it's also better for module arrangement - I kind of follow the arp 2600 layout & that works quite well
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I guess it´s a beginner mistake but every dream rack should have a maths! You´re welcome...
-- ak47exe
I just don't see how it would fit into my workflow
So, you started curating your modules more precisely when building a patch? Is that what you´re saying?
-- ak47exe
Yes, that's right. And, above all, I simplify things in my production.
In the beginning we're understandably a bit voracious, but the more we add on the table, the more discriminating gourmet we become.
I really like this thought by Winston Churchill: 'Out of intense complexities, intense simplicities emerge'.
That's pretty much what I experienced as I let my modular, and my home studio, expand...
For my part, I would add: and as we got older, we end up meeting from time to time :)
I´m in the market for a big rack (10 x 84hp) and I have a few questions.
I have two smaller racks right now (2x104 each) and I can get a ton of good stuff out of this setup.
Since a while I´m thinking about a bigger "studiocase". A solid wood case with proper Hinton Instruments PSU, sitting on a nice rolling cart thing to move around.... I will keep a small one for live use though.
My questions
What did change for you when you switched to a bigger setup?
Do you work differently?
Do you work on patches for a longer time than in a small case?
Is it somehow harder or more easy to build a sound?
Was it a good step or do you regret it it any way?
Would be nice to hear about your experiences or your thoughts if you´re in the same position.
Thanks
+10 for 'I'd think carefully about what you are missing in your patches - ie I want to do this, but I can't because I don't have that functionality in my case... note these omissions down - and then prioritise them before searching for and ultimately buying new modules' (@JimHowell1970).
thanks! really clear!
just because I'm thinking to find another module....
what can be interesting to add to my setup?
I was thinking about the Turing machine module....
I like drones, I have Microcosm pedal connected and a delay
-- centecente
turing machines are great - but they need to be clocked and they need to be quantized, if you want to use them for pitch with other sequencers that are quantized... so it might mean that you need more than just one module - ie the module you want and the modules that are needed to support it...
if what you want is 'looped quantized stepped random voltages' for generating 'pseudo-random' melodies - then it might be worth looking at a Pams New (or Pro) Workout - they can both do that - amongst a lot of other things including clock functions (master, division, multiplication, euclidean), logic, gates, envelopes etc - the screen on the Pro is better from all accounts and it has a lot more functionality - it's a module you'll grow into, if you don't mind the menu diving (which isn't that bad really, quite shallow, but a bit tedious - iirc you can save and recall presets - so that may help)
I'd think carefully about what you are missing in your patches - ie I want to do this, but I can't because I don't have that functionality in my case... note these omissions down - and then prioritise them before searching for and ultimately buying new modules
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
At the moment I have the modules you can see , but the space is not a problem for now
Moog can go outside alone in it's case
And if I will need more space in the future I can buy another Rackbrute.
but you are saying that I do not need another mixer? And use the VCA?
I have seen terrible webserver performance lately. I found out the reason was a search engine spider that crawled all Similar Racks pages. That is a page with very hefty SQL queries and for that reason a CPU/memory hog.
Quick fix: Similar Racks now is only accesible for users that are logged in. Thinking about changing it in a Unicorn only function...
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Hi,
Through the Midi Control Center Software you can access the velocity damping values of each sequencer (1 and 2).
I leave you a post from the arturia forum that was useful for me to adapt the output range of the BSP with eurorack modules.
/////////
Velocity Cv range could be attenuated with the MCC. You can find this parameter in Device Settings, Global section and it is ----named Seq1 (or Seq2) Velocity Scaling.
You can choose between 10 values from 1 to 10. 1 is min range, 10 is max range, no attenuation. When no attenuation (value = 10) velocity range is about 0-12V (0 for min velocity 01 and 12V for max velocity 127). So the 12V are divided by 127 values.
Max attenuation (value = 1) is 1/10e of max range so the output goes from 0V to about 1.5V. 1.5V is now divided by 127values.
You can approximate max output using this formula (ParamValue is your MCC setting) :
Max Output Voltage = 12 * ParamValue /10
////////
First suggestion: Erica Synths Black Stereo Mixer V3 (or V2).
Great little mixer and same brand/aesthetic as your Black Wavetable VCO (as you wished).
10 HP.
Second suggestion: Befaco STMix. Excellent small mixer too.
6 HP.
Both suggested modules accept mono AND stereo.
Third suggestion: no other module yet :)
Because your Quad VCA is also a small mixer, 4 voices, but favoring mono.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
OK, thanks.
Just giving it a go with the Patching Panda Punch and it does something but not as well as shooting it a gate, it seems a low velocity is the default High and a high velocity is a low or reduced accent. Weird.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
should work fine... as long as the voltage is high enough and the signal is as long as you want it to be...
if the module's expecting a trigger/gate it's probably expecting a threshold to be reached to apply the accent and a drop below that threshold to stop applying the accent...
not sure how the velocity is done in the beatstep pro - I've never used it on mine - but I suspect that it just outputs a voltage based on the max output / the value of the velocity... and then turn off once the step is over... so effectively a gate at the level specified by the velocity value
shouldn't hurt anyway - give it a try!! - it's all just control voltage
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
"Hello everyone, in my Doepfer chain I have inserted the Delay 2hp module...but the Delay response I got didn't satisfy me, I struggle to obtain repeat effects...has this happened to you too? I think to replace with 2hp Verb"
delays usually require feedback to produce more than 1 repeat - try turning the feedback up or addressing it with CV...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
If I have a module that has an Accent input and its expecting a Gate or Trigger is it possible to use the Velocity output on the Beatsteo Pro to do this. I realise I could use 2 sequencer patterns but that would take up, you guessed it, 2 sequencer lanes!
Thanks
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Buongiorno a tutti, nella mia catena Doepfer ho inseriti il modulo Delay 2hp...ma la risposta Delay che ho ottenuto, non mi ha soddisfatto, faccio Fatica ad ottenere effetti di ripetizione...successo anche a voi? Penso di sostituire con 2hp Verb
Not sure if you own the Joranalogue x2 but you could remove both of those, swap for a single module that does both e.g. Intellijel Audio Interface @ 10Hp. Then you have an extra 2hp for the Sea Legs. No need for a new rack. But depends on what you own already.
what about 8hp modules, like the bastl ikarie (stereo filter) + bastl basil (stereo delay)?
or maybe using the steady state gate as mono filter in 8hp?
They seem to be good gapfillers.
I would like to try them.
So this is a departure from the usual eurorack only recordings. I used a couple VSTs for some reason - probably because I didn't have to get off the couch. ;-) I bought a Launch Pad Pro a few weeks ago and have really been loving playing on the grid. This track has its core layed down by the modular, but I added a bass track and a lead track that were performed on the LPP. It really does lend itself to different licks than what I can do on a keyboard. Cheers!
By a Thread - Patch Notes
Pad:
Endless processor fed by Elements, into Bionic Lester
BL modulated by The Hypster
Kick and Percussion from VPME QD
Modular Drums:
Kick triggered by LL8
Percussion triggered by Euclidean Circles Channel 1 & 2 and A-151 switching, modulated by Mod Medusa, panning by Kermit
DAW Drums:
Hi Hat and fills by EZ Drummer, sequenced in Studio One
Bass:
Arturia ARP 2600 V3 - performed on Launch Pad Pro, midi recorded in Studio One
Rhythm Melodies:
Elements sequenced by Metropolix and into Veno-Echo into Performance Mixer
Elements modulated by Wave Packets
Brenso sequenced by Stochastic Inspiration Generator
Brenso into Blades into Mimeophon
Brenso wave folding and Blades cutoff modulated by Mod Medusa
Lead:
Buchla Easel V - performed on Launch Pad Pro, midi recorded in Studio One
For an external sequencer, regardless of the size of your setup, BeatStep Pro is a great solution.
indeed it is! and it's a keeper - ie it's always useful no matter how big your rack gets to... currently I predominantly use mine for sequencing song part/chord progression changes on my sinfonion - clocked from the sinfonion...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
For an external sequencer, regardless of the size of your setup, BeatStep Pro is a great solution.
In the meantime, and about sequencing melody with Pam’s Pro, see that video at 5:17
get a mantis - easily portable - I've travelled a lot with mine on planes (perfectly sized for hand lugggage), trains and buses and used to live on the 2nd floor (or 3rd if you're american) with no lift... and that's with just the standard tiptop case - there's a 3rd party briefcase that's more rugged if you're worried about it!
then you'll have plenty of space to add modules without sacrificing others - at least until the mantis is full!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I chose this size of rack (64X Pod) because it fits perfect into my Peli case.. it has similar dimensions to the Elektron machines, which makes it easy to pack and plan.
There's 18HP left so the 'sealegs' (I really want) for instance wouldnt actually fit it.. I'm considering geting a bigger rack or putting the Data Bender out since I also need a cool filter in there.. I always wanted to get the 'stereo dipole', but also that one wouldnt fit haha
Any suggestions? I might need to get a bigger pelicase, but I also live in the 4th floor without an elevator - the smaller the better...
1 get a bigger case - small cases are very often a false economy... as you will end up buying another case within a few weeks or months... better to start off with that slightly bigger case - a tip top mantis is an excellend starter case and one of the best bangs for money in eurorack (hp/cost/manufacturer reputation/decent power)
these tiny cases are great for mission specific roles when you know what you are doing, but at the moment neither of these appply to you
how are you going to plqy this? are you expecting to play it via a keyboard or from a DAW? then you are missing the midi to cv module you need... only 1/2 the module is included in the case - you still need the cv output part... Pams includes some random sequence generation, amongst other things (rtfm), but it's likely that sooner or later and probably sooner you'll want to be able to create a sequence - and there's no space left in the case for that... NB there are external sequencers - maybe one of these would be a good idea...
in a case this small there's not really enough space for multiple voices - something will be missing... a filter for the dixie for example... stick to one voice and what's needed to support it rather than trying to do too much in too small a case...
again in a small case there is no space for overlap when not needed - the functionality of the EG can be covered by pams (again rtfm)
I would either just get a bigger case and start with a few modules - a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to play and a way to listen - which in this case may just be Pams, plaits (you'll likely only get a clone - ALA for example), an effect mdoule and a headphone output: Pams covers (to some extent) the way to play and the modulation source, plaits is the sound source (including vca, filter and has some internal modulation based on the envelope sent into the level) etc
OR
ignore the size of the case for now - start with a 9u (or 10u, if you must have 1u) 104hp or bigger case in modulargrid and put the modules you really want in it (taking into account the functionality that you want - ie 2 voices) and try to work out the modules that you need to support those and then show us the result for critique - then buy a case that is appropriate for the modules and leaves 20%+ free for expansion so that you are not going to need to buy another case almost immediately when you see that module that you need a week after you've finished buying all the modules that you think you want and the modules that we've pointed out that you need in order to support them properly
and take a look at my signature... spend a decent amount of time thinking about it and how it applies to you and the modules you think you want...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I've made a rack full of modules that I think would be good for a beginner for generating ideas. I don't plan on using this rack for anything specific, just to tinker and mess around with. Would this be a good starter? Should I add or remove anything? I'll be getting a case with two rows of 62hp, so I'll have plenty of room for additions.
Can you recommend a power supply for the Data? Building a case isn't a problem.
hmm... depends, really... I like the befaco power supplies - I have a lot of the excalibus ones (built are available, but they are a really easy, if tedious DIY build - 26 power headers with 16 pins each!!!) - they are really quiet in my experience and I use them for video as well as audio - which has a much higher need for quiet at much higher frequencies (MHz, not just KHz) but they're a bit big for a case just for a DATA - excalibus is meant for powering 6u/84hp... they do a smaller power supply too, but
much dirtier, but ok for audio I've used frequency central ones - they are small and cheap, but they need a deep case... also easy to DIY... if you DIY and source all the parts yourself from tayda it should work out at about 50 quid including the wall wart... no 5v though - and the power stats on here for the DATA look wrong compared to the mordax site - the FC power supplies really only supply 500mA - so 400mA or less in practice (I suspect DATA has some inrush needs)
otherwise maybe a uZeus... but they use the panel as a heatsink - and recommend metal rails to dissipate the heat - which the others don't need so you could get away with screwing any panels straight into the wood - I did this for a while before building my first DIY case - I had a really dodgy 9u held together by modules and blank panels - no rails, no sides, no back - literally just modules, blank panels and 4 bits of wood
The step8 is primarily used as a sequencer but since getting the Rene it hasn't been getting used so much but it's still used as more of a cv source than anything else.
OK I'd be tempted to use it as a second sequencer to transpose the rene (you'll need. that precision adder back in the case though)
TBH I never consider the rack to be lacking mixing capabilty other than fx sends etc
that's kind of what I suspected after I looked again at your rack and noticed that the erica output was also a mixer!
fx sends = matrix mixer... maybe a stereo one - I usually use my matrix mixers for combining modulation souorces to get more complex modulation sources though... which is one more reason to make that expander case a bit bigger than you think you need just for the
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I'm down for the tex mix but I'm not going to be buying a new case. What can I lose to make room for one?
-- padmasan
well that's a difficult one - I've only ever sold one module - because I really didn't like it and always added cases - I've built 4 cases myself - have you considered that??
tbh - I didn't notice the black output had mixing capabilities when I initially scanned your rack!
do you think you actually have a mixing problem?
I went back and re-read your first post...
what don't you like about your workflow? could it be solved with some longer patch cables?
have you tried both of the module arrangement strategies that I outlined in my first post?
have you tried taking all the modules out of the case putting a single voice in and working ou the best workflow for that, for you and then adding another and repeating etc etc
I'd move the mixer down and the squid salmple up one row, same with the shelves - maybe consider taking data out and into a small case on it's own... I know you said no to another case, but I'm just suggesting a 16-20hp satellite.... 5 bits of wood a few screws and a power supply - 50-60 quid... not another mantis!
that would allow you enough space to add back in some (or all - your little satellite case would need too be a little bit bigger) of the bottom row...
how are you using your step8 - as a sequencer or as a modulation source? I'd probably move this down too... same with Pams...
-- JimHowell1970
Thanks Jim, there are somes great ideas there.
Can you recommend a power supply for the Data? Building a case isn't a problem.
The step8 is primarily used as a sequencer but since getting the Rene it hasn't been getting used so much but it's still used as more of a cv source than anything else.
TBH I never consider the rack to be lacking mixing capabilty other than fx sends etc
I'm down for the tex mix but I'm not going to be buying a new case. What can I lose to make room for one?
-- padmasan
well that's a difficult one - I've only ever sold one module - because I really didn't like it and always added cases - I've built 4 cases myself - have you considered that??
tbh - I didn't notice the black output had mixing capabilities when I initially scanned your rack!
do you think you actually have a mixing problem?
I went back and re-read your first post...
what don't you like about your workflow? could it be solved with some longer patch cables?
have you tried both of the module arrangement strategies that I outlined in my first post?
have you tried taking all the modules out of the case putting a single voice in and working ou the best workflow for that, for you and then adding another and repeating etc etc
I'd move the mixer down and the squid salmple up one row, same with the shelves - maybe consider taking data out and into a small case on it's own... I know you said no to another case, but I'm just suggesting a 16-20hp satellite.... 5 bits of wood a few screws and a power supply - 50-60 quid... not another mantis!
that would allow you enough space to add back in some (or all - your little satellite case would need too be a little bit bigger) of the bottom row...
how are you using your step8 - as a sequencer or as a modulation source? I'd probably move this down too... same with Pams...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I can totally second the Tesseract Tex Mix system. It is really great. I have experienced zero noise bleed issues and read about several who had but moved the noisy modules away from it and it cleared right up.
I would also recommend the Roland 531 Mixer. I have one, but would love to have a whole row of them.
