OR... you could get a tiptop audio smart VCO MkII and have a nice analogue VCO that can both measure & sync to frequencies?

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/tiptop-audio-z3000-smart-vco-mkii

EDITED Jun 19th 2017, 02:19

i'm just learning the deeper nuts & bolts of modular synthesis to supplement my decades old understanding of normalled synths. i was always more into the sound mangling potential of sampling, being an early art of noise fan, but have since come to the conclusion that a lot of the re-synthesis they did was likely samples of analogue effects. not only that, sampling just doesn't sound as thick & juicy as analogue unless you maybe run your sounds through magical VCFs & tubes.

i'm having real trouble though with the artificial limitations of analogue modules that mostly still only do the same things they've done since the 50s with the possible exceptions of clock syncing & digital wavetables (not counting MIDI as a modular thing) no matter how many patch cords you use, to me, modular analogue still sounds like modular analogue, just being driven by slightly different sequencers (which totally lack loose & sloppy FUNK BTW [and COWBELL!] as far as i'm concerned)

what seems like OBVIOUS features that at least ONE designer should put in their modules just never happen, so i'm going to share my idea of a "much needed modulator"

OK... start with the beginning of a sound... analogue SUCKS at attacks which are a major part of a sound's quality. all analogue can do, really, is change the attack rate. as far back as at least the early 90s, i remember reading an EXCELLENT idea about sample editing, in keyboard mag i think, that would have been great for synthesis... using sampled attacks... plucked, strummed, blown, bowed, iron, steel, rubber, wood, balloon, plosives etc. to add complexity to sounds. it's a great idea... why didn't anyone take it up? a great module would have a massive "wavetable" of attacks and materials eg. a woodblock being hit by metal, plastic, wood, rubber & urethane sticks & mallets. personally, i LOVE the fat thump sound of finger snapping a balloon or a basketball hitting a wood floor. besides onboard attacks, have sample memory where a user can create his own attacks, or download more.

this is a TRIGGER based module BTW

besides using SPECIFIC attacks, ADSR SUCKS!!! what if you want a downward dropping then upwards CURVED envelope for whoops & scratches or wobbles etc.? ADSR is so last century! the only way to PROPERLY animate envelopes is to be a modwheel slinging robot, or to draw them in a sequencer. why not make a module where you can use preset "wavetables" of various effects or even draw your own & i'm not talking about erica's "hey... let's draw sawtooths & other geometrics" module that's a very limited step in the right direction.

use the same idea to modulate pitch too for boings (on top of a "twang attack" would be sick), scratches & bass wobbles etc. you can do this sort of stuff hard syncing to an advanced LFO & gate combo, i guess, but then you're artificially confined to having your notes fit perfect timing (i DESPISE quantization soooooooooooooo much!!!!!!!) when you should be able to trigger your modulations per note creating new SOUNDS. i'm all about sounds. that's why i was drawn to sampling & not synthesis. the only limits you have with sampling are the sounds available and your imagination at creating new ones. on top of that, you should be able to modulate your modulations eg. do dubstep bass wobbles ON THE FLY, morph between envelope effects, eg, animate your scratches by modulating "envelope" speed, including dub style echo effects and so on. i'm surprised for that matter, no one's invented a dubstep synthesizer VST for doing a variety of pitch & wobble effects live and that the stanndard is still hand drawing with "ancient" ableton "live" (ironic name) you should be able to do the same kinds of modulations you can do on a computer with a rack module. it's OK to put digital modules in your racks now!

basically, the simplest way to describe the module i'm talking about is one that ANIMATES sounds by offering sampled attacks, COMPLEX amplitude AND (separate) pitch envelopes with the ability to add and edit sounds & curves... heck... why not let your module IMPORT curves etc. you draw in your DAW & ableton?! MIDI protocol was designed for that kind of thing. it would be a note/pitch modulator for whatever VCO you're using, then process the sound's envelope as a VCA (envelope generator)/ mixer. you could even break it up into TWO modules i guess... attack/pitch mod & amplitude mod.. even... cough cough cough*, integrate VCF modulation. i DESPISE filter sweeps personally, but you could add a 3rd dimension of "complex envelope generation" for that too... along with modulate by velocity & do the crossfade thing samplers do. LFOs would be a natural extension of the concept in "loop mode", and even there, again, you could add modulation where you LFO speeds up & slows down to the beat, but without having to be locked into it in "trigger mode"

someone could even take these ideas even further and create an entire synth voice with wavetables & samples, but really, it's just be nice to be able to modulate "boring old ADSR/LFO/portamento modular" with a little more precision and variety.

analogue needs the kind of modulation that gives sounds attacks with teeth (or wet noodles) and sounds that BOUNCE without having to patch a dozen modules that break the concept down into "micro-functions" that are hobbled to a robotic kraftwerk/techno beat.

what do you think? it's something worth creating a buzz about until someone does it? have any dream features you'd like to add like "complex switching" (whatever that would be... i'm really weak at understanding complex utilities & patches)

if anyone builds one of these... you owe me a module!

EDITED Jun 19th 2017, 02:15

i'd be interested to hear if anyone's made a "wavetable" like CV modulator you could use to TRIGGER pitch & envelopes with & break out of "hard syncing your advanced LFO to tempo & ADSR" straightjackes and create sounds that boing, ahhhh-whoop, scratch & wobble. i'm not really into anything i hear coming out of the most complex this modulates that patches i've heard as they only operate at the bar level and not the note level.

along similar lines, i still haven't heard of anyone, even digitally as a VST, make a module for dubstep style bass wobbles. it'd be nice to be able to modulate wobbles LIVE and have them be fat analogue tones at that instead of those bright digital ones that DON'T sound like bass at all unless you have a real subwoofer that moves air like headphones don't.

as to what DOES exist, i originally had a batumi + expander & quad clock distributor in my play rack, but from what i was able to glean from the description for pamela's NEW workout, it sounds like it does everything they can and so much more with PRESET MEMORIES, but, maybe someone might prefer knobs & sliders for live performance.

while it's a wavetable oscillator/effects unit, and a pretty sick one at that too, i know you can at least generate complex wavetable LFOs out of intellijel's cylonix shapeshifter and use the LFOs as oscillators as well as use the oscillators for LFOs too.

i hope to learn some interesting stuff out of this thread and as the CV:OCD is new to me, i'm going to check it out and see if it does any kinds of modulation that sound interesting to me.

OH! OK... it's midi to CV, like the #4 rated of ALL eurorack modules expert sleepers ES3 MkII & its associated expanders. yeah... it seems like the BEST way to modulate a rack is through MIDI where you aren't squeezed to death by perfect timing straightjackets and can record, edit & save modulations at whatever the ppqn limits of your sequencer are. i'm just learning about the nuts & bolts of modular and as far as i know, hand drawing or capturing mod wheel performances are the best way to take control of a rack's modulation & break out of its LFO/ADSR/portamento box.

really, someone should make a digital module that lets you draw your CVs that you can TRIGGER along with non ADSR curves for its onboard VCA(s) along with sync to midi/clock or tap tempo (LFO mode?) and maybe have a "morph mode" where you could do dubstep wobbles or even modulate cough cough cough filters and do sweeps. why would anyone want to do THAT?!

EDITED Jun 19th 2017, 01:17

well i don't know about FM, but as far as i know, intellijel's $500 cylonix shapeshifter is the SICKEST wavetable oscillator in the world as it goes beyond simple crosstable morphing into stuff i can't understand, but that sounds insane.

https://www.modulargrid.net/img/imagecache/600x586_3196.jpg

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/intellijel-cylonix-shapeshifter

i was wowed by the variety of vocoder sounds it can do and the funky scratching effect it did morphing between two presets. i would build an entire system around JUST that rack.

mutable instruments has a lot of wavetable type modules. braids is popular and the one i liked best, not so much clouds, but only because i'm not into ambience & pads, but they have a pretty wide variety of interesting non-analogue modules you should check out for yourself. i also like rings which is kind of a "resonance modelling" VCF, but is also considered a modulator.

finally, the other wavetable oscillator i liked the sound of was synthesis technology's E340 cloud generator for its percussive type sounds & atariesque "kuzo" sounds

while NOT a wavetable synth, but ACTUAL 4 operator FM, you should check rack hogging akamie's castle out too. my eyes glazed over at the complexity of the concept, though i liked the tones, and was put at ease by another demo that essentially said "i don't know what it's doing... no-one does, just twist knobs & see what happens" LOL i can wrap my head around that.

intellijel's cylonix CYCLEBOX is also interesting, but nowhere near as much as the cylonix shapeshifter i was confusing it with. one other bonus of the shapeshifter is that it comes with an INDEPENDENT wave folder you can process other VCOs with and it has some wavetable LFOs that can also serve as oscillators and vice versus.

in trying to learn more about the nuts & bolts of modular synthesis, i've seen triangle core VCOs being a hot topic keyword and haven't been able to keyword search anything that explains WHY. i've checked youtube demos for intellijel's super popular dixie II+ out and didn't hear anything different than a standard VCO, or even digital ones doing standard sawtooth, sine or square waves so there must be something i'm missing as it seems more like marketing hype than some revolutionary way to get new & exciting tones like you can with a wavetable VCO.

what's the big deal about triangle core VCOs? i can hear a lot more variation between VCFs

well, if you want to work entirely "analogue", then you REALLY need to look into sequencers and probably clocks too to give your modules automation that you could do filter sweeps over etc. or backing while you play.

i would think it'd be A LOT better to buy a separate synth if you want to do polyphonic as it would get expensive building a system with multiple VCOs and VCFs that you can't fully match. you could get a 4 voice dave smiths instruments Mopho x4 for just $1,000 and i think with modules being even cheaper, a $500 korg polyphonic, or work your way up to more expensive prophets including the "ultimate" OB6 as from what i've read, oberheims have a much fatter sound than prophets.

not only would a separate polyphonic be cheaper, but you could get PROGRAMMABILITY you can't get from modular and potentially a sequencer and midi-CV so you can communicate directly with your modular rack. it'd take a lot of research to pick a poly that suits your tastes, needs & budget, or a separate thread asking about the pros & cons.

it wouldn't hurt for you to have an external drum machine from a cheaper one using sampled sounds up to an all analogue "808" type kit. personally, i'd be inclined to go the sampled route there as you're more likely to be straightjacketed by a step sequencer where you can play beats with looser timing on a sequencer you can record live on and turn the quantization up for looser beats where you can, for example, lag a high-hat. as with a separate polyphonic, which might have its own "high res" sequencer, you can save patterns and songs and probably tempos too on your drum machine and then sync your modular's clock to your MIDI gear.

while your pre-programmed beats and melodies are playing on your beatbox & poly, then you could do all of your modular type stuff over that with your rack, or even process audio from your other gear. i've heard some interesting effects running drum loops through a synth and distorting them in various ways.

as to headphone amps, there are modules for that you could put in your rack. you could TRY jacking into your VCA or mixer, but i think you'd need more juice to drive headphones. i'm not sure. then, there'd be the "left channel only" issue as your jacks are going to put mono out. you'd probably need some kind of stereo to mono adapter jack for that. if you were using external polys & drum machines etc., you'd likely run everything through an external mixer which would have both line outs and a headphone jack. little mixers are cheap, and some even come with effects.

as to maths... i'll leave THAT to you. it's a very powerful & popular module, but i personally hate it because it's so complicated. i'd rather break all of its functions, at least the ones i'd actually use, down into easier to understand individual modules that maybe do their specific tasks even better with additional control eg. an ADSR envelope generator offers more control than a maths could for that function. it's a more expensive rack hogging way to do things, but the route i'd prefer.

anyways, i hope MAYBE this helps you plan YOUR system and/or gives you ideas more than it takes you away from your goals 7 style.

as to interfacing with ableton, expert sleepers' ES3-Mk III MIDI to CV converter is the #4 rated of ALL eurorack modules, so i'm guessing it's not shabby, plus ES offers a bunch of different expanders as well as dedicated VST software for controlling the modules, both in a slimmed down freeware version, and a more powerful one you have to buy.

and for doing clock modulation & LFOs in your rack, little "pamela's NEW workout" looks like a really powerful PROGRAMMABLE clocking module to modulate your rack with and sync your hardware sequencer with. i had originally put a batumi 4x LFO & quad clock distributor in my play rack, but it sounds like pamela can do what both of those can with her 8 outputs and MORE with her swing tempo, advanced LFO shapes & memory, but then again, MAYBE batumi & quad clock are better for live synthesis because of their knobs & sliders. i'm actually new to all this and trying to learn what i can. i understand midi, DAW sequencers & studio gear better having read keyboard & mixmag since the 80s and am only now digging into modular, so don't take my opinions on modular as expert advice by any stretch.

hope this helps though

well, as you're looking to get MULTIPLE filters, i'm going to IGNORE your $250 limit, insist you buy one less filter, and get the CRAZIEST filter of them all x10 at $500, the z-plane digital morpheus!

do you know of ANY filter that sounds even SLIGHTLY like that? some of those tones are bite your head off and blow your speakers "digital sharp", but it can do some thicker stuff too. the point is it won't be competing with any other filter(s) you own covering the same territory.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/rossum-electro-music-morpheus

it is a virtual synthesizer within itself. how could you exclude it over arbitrary budget restraints getting two cheaper filters that merely distort sound in slightly different flavors when the morpheus does CRAZY things, the very thing you're seeking, like EVERY analogue filter COMBINED can't do. morpheus is batshee hearing LITERAL (as in vocal resonant) voices where other filters might just get a little whizzed off.

if you just got a morpheus and the VERY VERY flexible intellijel polaris, you could cover MOST of the meat & potatoes sounds of other analogue filters including juicy, crunchy, rubbery, chunky, & fuzzy, if not as extreme as SPECIFIC filters that only excel at one or two of those things like juicy ARP & SEMs, chunky moogs or whizzed off wasps & polivoks AND the polaris is $230... well within your budget.

stretching your budget AGAIN... NOTHING sounds as whizzed off as an all tube metasonix rack. i would imagine that their tube $350-$400 VCFs are a big part of their truly unique sound. i INSIST on a metasonix tube VCA in my imaginary rack for grunging things up and fattening up digital VCOs and the digital morpheus filter. it's a slightly different take than yours, but based on flexibility in tone. i'd be inclined to get a metasonix VCF myself if only they came in silver and not that mismatching yellow.

seriously though... the morpheus filter is crazier than a bunch of other filters, metasonix vomits lava and another really out there filter YOU might like, but that isn't my particular cup of tea is the 4ms spectral multiband resonant filter at another "get IT instead of 2 x $250 filters price of $475" 4ms spectral resonant filter
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/4ms-company-spectral-multiband-resonant-filter
especially if you want to do harmonic, polyphonic type things or get weird sounds modulating audio. it's kind of "1 trick pony" for my tastes, but it really does its own thing too. if you TRULY want unique, that's #2 on my "weird filters" list.

an all tube Metasonix Wretch S-1000 though is CRAZY... it's like a drunk polivoks figting an angry swarm of wasps underwater. it just OOZES the kind of attitude i think you're looking for and that impresses me too, true... it's expensive at around $2600 & kind of unpredictable, but yeah... it's a polivoks/wasp on acid and i bet you could capture A LOT of that tone with just an eye offending yellow VCF, which i think is their most popular module. nothing ever sounds as analogue as tubes. i'd call a tube distortion pre-amp/VCA the bare minimum for ANY rack, especially with digital oscillators and/or filters.

hey... happy to complicate the heck out of your mission! LOL

EDITED Jun 19th 2017, 08:45

Full Width layout

The rack browser and module browser now have a full width layout which adapts to the browser window size. I think it makes sense to better use the space on bigger screens.

Small changes to the search form

• Advanced Search is gone. I think nobody used the standard search anyway.
• Small improvements of the search form layout (it is now a flexbox)

I feel your pain. At least the modules with discontinued in the title are correctly tagged as discontinued.
To prevent the reverts in the future I have put a red alert label to discontinued modules in the module browser. Maybe that will help.

Here is the link for the final build goal:

Hello,
This is my first rack and probably trying to do too much I'm sure. My interests are ambient, slow evolving type tracks. I would like to have the ability to create some melodic lines and rhythmic possibilities. Things I currently have are the Bastl Quattro Figaro, Bastl Tromsø, Make Noise STO. I do plan to go very slowly and add a piece or two at a time and sit and learn what they can do. Thanks for any advice about what I have here.

Made this chunky bit for Signal Expo Berlin

this is the 3rd fucking time I've had to change this on the Doepfer a-126. Can an admin step in and tell these motherfuckers to stop reverting the name update to remove "(discontinued)" and pay attention to the goddamn field that is there for that exact purpose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sidelined:
* Braids (16hp)
* SVVCF (14hp)
* LoFi Junkie (10hp)
* Meadowphysics (6hp)
* O/A/x2 (4hp)
* O'Tool+ (8hp)
~1500/58hp total

Sell:
* Morphing Terrarium
* Ornament & Crime
* Frames

EDITED Jun 21st 2017, 22:59

Ditching:
* Ornament & Crime
* Morphing Terrarium
* Ripples

Hi there.. so, the drums are being sequenced by the Malekko Varigate 8 & Tiptop Audio Circadian Rhythm.
Cheers :)

-- sunfalls

thx! I wanted to know what is generating the sounds and also if they are filtered maybe via the warps or something?
-- wiggler128228

All the the sound sources you see in the case here on mgrid are my percussive voices. I've turned my entire 12u into a drum machine! Thats its focus. As well the effects & filters in the case are processing the drums.

Hi there.. so, the drums are being sequenced by the Malekko Varigate 8 & Tiptop Audio Circadian Rhythm.
Cheers :)

-- sunfalls

thx! I wanted to know what is generating the sounds and also if they are filtered maybe via the warps or something?

nice album, thank you for posting.
can you explain please how you did the drums for example in track 3?
-- wiggler128228

Hi there.. so, the drums are being sequenced by the Malekko Varigate 8 & Tiptop Audio Circadian Rhythm.
Cheers :)

EDITED Jun 17th 2017, 00:07

Image handling optimized

• Images are generated with better encoding
• HiDPI/Retina Images are only served to HiDPI capable devices

Everything should feel a tad snappier now.

Need some help filling up that bottom row! Any suggestions? Anything I've missed? The top two rows I already have. I def need an effects module (hence the Make Noise module) and an output/mixer module (hence the Pittsburgh module.)

Any ideas are appreciated.

your pal,

Steve

No more overlapping tags

Finally changed the CSS so that the function tags don't overlap other info in the module browser anymore.

-- modulargrid

Thanks, much appreciated :-)

nice album, thank you for posting.
can you explain please how you did the drums for example in track 3?

a lot of that system is over my head. i'm just learning modular, and would never build a stand alone system without at least a keyboard & i don't get into analogue sequencing or complicated patches, i HATE maths! LOL

the one thing i can say about this rack though is shapeshifter rocks! even if i had one, i doubt i'd ever fully understand it, but the things it can do... WOW!
-- bubblefunk

thanks for chiming in bubblefunk :) modular can be a strange off-putting hurdle. . i must say getting into eurorack and out of the box sequencing completely changed my sonic experience. hope you liked the album release if you had a chance to listen.

Tags don't overlap anymore, sorry it took so long ...

No more overlapping tags

Finally changed the CSS so that the function tags don't overlap other info in the module browser anymore.

Endless Scroll in the Racks browser

The rack browser works now the same way like the module browser. That is you can just scroll down to see every of the 80.000 public Euro racks.

Hello, I'm totally new to eurorack world. This is my first noob rack. Considered I already have a mother 32 do you think this rack could work for ambient/texture sounds? I don't know if I did well to add also an audio out module...I'd like to record into live or logic. Is it ok or am I totally wrong? Thank you for your help

EDITED Jun 15th 2017, 14:54

True, I wouldn't characterize it as 'thick' sounding, but it is pretty versatile, the easy normalled operation is a plus and it's not hard to find a place for it in a mix. I like having the polyphony too, because I like nothing more than nice harmonies and complex chords, but if I understand things correctly the 1m only operates this way with midi - when using the cv jacks I think it's monophonic. Not sure about that yet as I haven't had time to explore the things that Boulanger talks about in his excellent YouTube series on the 1m and using it in cv mode.

I like having the 1m in the rack now because it fits there and saves space on my work surface, at least until I start adding more modules, which I am already itching to do. But I do have a little bit of a problem: when it's in my Tiptop Mantis rack I don't have room to attach any of the midi cables that I have tried to either of the two sets of DINs on the back. No MIDI no poly? So I either have to hack custom cables to break out the midi, use it in mono mode where it should behave like a set of hopefully useful modules, or bounce it from the rack (or get a deeper one) - in which case I'll be looking at a void that's constantly tempting me to fill it with more, expensive modules. Sooner or later the 1M probably won't be in the rack, but I will most likely keep it in the mix. I tend not get rid of gear. It's an adventure.

Any feedback on this rack would be appreciated. Thanks

i hear ya... same here too.

what i would suggest would be to go to the "top 100s"page here:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules/evaluationlists

and try to watch youtube demos for both the top 100 rated modules as well as the top 100 used ones. even if you don't watch the videos, the lists can help you create shortlists of "best" (subjective!) VCAs & VCFs etc. as much as i personally can't stand maths... there's a reason it's in both top 100 lists, but you should also go beyond and explore other options.

i was reading a "best filters" thread somewhere, and someone was gaga over the bubblesound SEM filter and there was some talk about oberheim filters. it might be on one of the top 100 lists, or towards the top of the filters list here when you sort by popularity (ANOTHER handy learning tool!) and then when i branched out, i learned about the studio electronics SEM, and liked the way it sounded even juicier than the bubblesound in a demo.

youtube is kind of a hit or miss thing as far as demos go as many of them suck, and you have different people doing different things in them. it's hard to compare the sound of square wave filter sweeps against a filter being used in a "complete mix", but you'll EVENTUALLY learn stuff by accident. there's also a really good modular basics series there by what sounds to be a german guy who explains what modules are and what they do. if nothing else, i learned that function generator really just means envelope generator & LFO, and is NOT some WTF is that category unto itself.

hope eventually you figure out the system that's exactly right for you. there's plenty of variety of modules to choose from for sure, and it is daunting when you're new to it. there's a lot of cross patching this into that and sequencing the other stuff people do i'd NEVER want to be bothered with. i'm coming at more from the perspective of wanting to cram a room full of basic synthesizers in a little box... a few VCOs and a few VCFs, and you have 100+ possible synth combinations. i'll let everyone else do the funky patching thing.

well... if you already have the 1M, is it capable of producing thick analogue tones out of curiosity? it sounded really digital in the demos i watched. it would at least be a great module to learn on as i forgot just how many features it has. if you already have it... then keep it. it has stuff you can use, like effects, slider envelope generators are the best as far as i'm concerned, and there might be times when you want brighter tones too. besides, it also gives you MIDI too. as toy as it was, i wish i still had my casio SK-1 "sampler". it just had a funky bitcrush tone you can't get out out of 16bit+ pro gear. i lost it after all of the keys started falling out.

one benefit of having a normaled synth voice is that you can work a lot faster on it. one big rack owner was loving his atlantis because he could get stuff done on it faster. there's nothing worse than regretting getting rid of something because what you replaced it with can't do what it could. bright digital tones abound in techno and dubstep.

Thanks for your input, Bubblefunk.

The System 1m is in there because I already own it. Have for a while. It will probably get bumped from the rack when I get to the point where I need the space. It works well as a non-eurorack unit where I can take advantage of its (somewhat limited) polyphony for chords. (And a light show when it goes to sleep.)

Pamelas New Workout and the Shapeshifter both look really interesting. I'm bookmarking those for the future. The information I've gotten here, YouTube and the modular subreddit have been very helpful. I've settled on this as the beginnings of my setup.

The Distings and the Polaris are on backorder, but I started playing with the rest of it for the first time last night. I have got a lot to learn!

Thanks very much for the tips!

I'll look into your recommendations. I'm trying to get my head around everything. Lots to learn before I start physically putting things together.

This is a duplicate of https://www.modulargrid.net/e/other-unknown-poly

ditch the toy system 1m. it looks purdy, but it doesn't fare well in youtube reviews. the knobs are loose, if i remember right, it sounds digital. if you want to get a nice starter, moog mother 32 is in the same price range and is way more popular here, but i'd get an intellijel atlantis instead myself. it has some nice "hidden features" according to the sonic state, i believe, youtube review. and sounds really nice. try checking for demo videos for ANYTHING you put in your rack. if you REALLY want roland tone, get the more expensive 500 series.

while both are space hogs, i just love the tonal insanity of intellijel's shapeshifter wavetable (and so much more!) VCO and rossum's z-plane filter. i'd drop clouds to make room for shapeshifter myself, but from what i recall, clouds tones weren't my cup of tea so it's possible shapeshifter's aren't yours, BUT there's so much variety in what it can do. there's a funny youtube demo for it where the reviewer is freaked out and can't stop laughing & at one point, has a brief conversation with it as it self modulates "meows". it does nice vocoding too.

intellijel polaris filter? CHECK! great little filter that does more variety of tones than almost anything else. a moog filter MIGHT sound chunkier, a SEM, jucier, or a WASP, grungier, but the polaris does all those kinds of tones PLUS even "rare" vocal sounding tones. it's THE filter for a small system. i agree with that.

dixie II+? i know it's popular and there's supposed to be some kind of magic with triangle core VCOs, but i just didn't hear anything special about it in demos. if you didn't want to put a big old shapeshifter in your rack as you #2 VCO, there are smaller wavetable VCOs like erica's black that can do a lot more than dixie and both the mother 32 & atlantis have nice analogue VCOs. it comes down to personal choice, but i just don't get dixie II+ and am looking for an excuse to kick it out of my 4x104 tone bender (arp 2600 with an attitude) play rack.

as to MIDI, expert sleepers' ES3 Mk3 seems to be the most popular MIDI interface, but if you already have clack sources and don't plan on playing your rack via MIDI, then you might want to think about "pamela's new workout". i just learned about it tonight, and it sounds like a programmable, 8 out, clock/LFO monster. i dropped batumi & quad clock from my play rack because new workout sounds like it does more than both units combined including adding swing to your clocks with 256, i think, memory points! that should offer your little rack plenty of "pseudo sequencing"

you MIGHT want to consider makenoise's popular 2 channel optomix VCA whose vactrols are supposed to be good for making percussive noises, but from what i've seen, RYO's aparture VCA is even better as it adds VCF & distortion giving you more tone, especially warming clouds and any other digital oscillators you might use. me? i'd even add a metasonix tube VCA for even chunkier grunge. tonal variety is my priority. noodling? never! LOL

back to analogue filters, i'd get a tiptop Z3000 smart VCO MkII before the dixie because it adds sync for other filers and a waveshaper for more tone, though it eats more space up.

seriously though... if you want to really noodle... here's a steaming bowl of pastabilities for ya...

a lot of that system is over my head. i'm just learning modular, and would never build a stand alone system without at least a keyboard & i don't get into analogue sequencing or complicated patches, i HATE maths! LOL

the one thing i can say about this rack though is shapeshifter rocks! even if i had one, i doubt i'd ever fully understand it, but the things it can do... WOW!

well, either module would eat up a lot of your rack, but my two favorite modules are intellijel's insane shapeshifter wavetable modulator. i'd kick maths out for that, but i just don't like maths to begin with. it's too complex (i like 1 function modules better eg. intellijel triatts for CV control and a dedicated ADSR, but that's me) and i just don't like the looks of it, but it's your rack and it's one of the highest rated modules so who am i to argue?

there are other smaller wavetable VCOs to add some tonal variety to your STO like erica's black wavetable or various mutable instruments modules like braids.

i just learned about pamela's new workout tonight and am really impressed by how it seems to replace both a 4xLFO batumi AND a quad clock modulator. that would add a lot of PROGRAMMABLE clock modulation to your system. in a small system, intellijel's polaris filter offers a huge variety of analogue VCF tone to a system. other modules might do specific tones better, but i haven't heard any analogue filter that can do chunky, juicy, rubbery, creamy AND attitude. maybe a SEM might be a little juicier or a crazy WASP might grunge harder, but they can't do everything else. it's a reasonable 10hp too.

as to envelope generators, i couldn't imagine using anything but intellijel's dual ADSR because sliders just make more sense in an EG to me.

i wish i better understood modulars, especially utilities, so i could help more, but even there like everywhere else, it all boils down to preferences in sound, function & layout.

regardless, i'll argue with ANY expert that shapeshifter & morpheus kick tons of analogue butt in the tone department except maybe they need some grunging up to sound less digital... a good filter and a metasonix tube VCA would help there i'd think. check the demos out for yourself and decide for yourself if anything i've suggested works for you.

total noob, but to me... the two "best" modules are intellijel's shapeshifter & rossum electro-music's morpheus because you can get so many crazy tones out of them and because of digital modules like those, i like the fat & nasty sound of metasonix's tube VCA.

i wonder if maybe batumi is redundant with pamela's workout. i originally had one in my play rack based on its popularity, but replaced both it AND the quad clock with it because it SEEMS like it does everything both of them can and so much more. it's programmable even, but i could see someone preferring a batumi for live use because of the sliders, but i think you can modulate pamela too, you just need an external controller. try and get an expert ruling on that.

as to the optomix, i'd mount it on the far right as i try to plan each row following the "standard signal chain"
MIDI/controller > LFO & utilities > VCO > VCF > envelop generator > mixer > VCA > effects or something similar to make it easier to visualize patches, but tend to break the sequence to group modules by brand too.

in a small rack, i'd get intellijel's polaris multi-filter. it covers a LOT of territory juicy, rubbery, vocal, chunky, & attitude. other filters might sound even juicier etc., but in all the demos i've watched, it's the analogue that covers the most tonal bases.

speaking of intellijel, their dual ADSR is my favorite envelope generator... very simple & sliders just make more sense to me.

DO NOT take anything i say as "educated". i'm just trying to teach myself this stuff, but definitely check shapeshifter & morpheus demos out to see if they sound good to you ears. they are in the "top row" of my play rack

EDITED Jun 14th 2017, 06:53

this is likely to be a controversial rack as i have a VERY different perspective on synthesis than MOST modular people, maybe because i come at this from a percussionist perspective.

this thought experiment, as i've been trying to learn more about modular synths to improve on my decades old basic understanding of hardwired synth modules & signal chains and have been planning what for me is the "ultimate synth" which would be about tonal variety, textures, controlling both notes AND modulation myself as much as possible with a DAW sequencer, and mangling audio or doing sound design from scratch. it's also, wherever possible, simplified to "1 module, 1 function" which makes things easier to understand than ugly ugly god is it ever ugly maths everyone demands be in everyone else's rack.

i KNOW that perspective is controversial as i just hate both the looks and the multifunctional complexity of that module and in reading the plight of an actual rack owner who's kind of on the same page as me, i got really angry that everyone refused to help him until he caved in and bought a maths he didn't want to appease everyone. if you're "that type", STOP reading right here because i won't argue about it or EVER budge from my contempt for that FUGLY complicated abomination. it IS possible to build a synth without maths... this is a FACT. there... THAT argument should be nipped in the bud, except for hard headed trolls who are incapable of listening.

to get the rest of "my issues" out of the way,

• i DESPISE sequencers and especially self modulating patches. they're annoying, non-musical, and you can't dance to them. i'd rather sequence my own 2,000ppqn sloppy loosely timed (read funky) beats than ever sound like kraftewerk or techno. i'd rather perform or draw my own modulations too. for me, a modular isn't something to experiment with and make complicated patches just because one can, but is a flexible synthesizer where you can swap VCOs & VCAs for more tonal variety and in particular, choose crazy sounding modules like shapeshifter (oh... it's SOOO complicated! LOL) and morpheus. that, and duophinic style, you can stack sounds on top of each other and get a lot of complexity out of fairly simple signal chains.

• i DESPISE filter sweeps & resonance. i'm soooo sick of 303 filter sweeping techno i could puke! LOL i like filters for the awesome (mostly static) textures they can add to a tone... chunky, juicy, rubbery, vocal, & maybe a little bit of grunge. but sequenced 130bpm "melodies" & knob twisting? MAKE IT STOP! MAKE IT STOP!!!

• not a big fan of LFO effects (except maybe at near audio rates where they add texture) or pads & drones either. i would lean towards percussive sounds, even in melodies, and again, prefer to do my own modulation wherever possible

• random CV effects get on my nerves... even WORSE than sequencers

• i DO like dubstep bass wobble, when it's the bouncy variety anyways, if not the bright digital sound of supposed bass notes. i prefer modulation at the note level where sounds boing, whoop, "scratch" & wobble etc. and would rather modulate pitch than a filter. i'd love to learn about modules that are handy for non ADSR/LFO/random modulation, especially if you can trigger it

• as a beatboxer/percussionist, i imagine i'd REALLY use envelope following a lot. it's a really underrated effect R2D2 notwithstanding

• when it comes to effects, i'd rather use outboard for more flexibility

with that out of the way, this is my "best guess" as to what to fill a rack with. at least as far as VCAs & VCFs go, all of those modules (except the doepfer moog i was tired of trying to find a "better" 8hp module for) were very carefully chosen for the different sounds each make eg. i love the classy juicy sound of the SEM filter and how it DOESN'T resonate like crazy if i ever did want to do some filter sweeping (most likely on single notes than bars). i tried avoiding complicated modules that do too many things, like maths, hence all of the doepfer utilities, or redundancy where modules do the same things in different combinations.

i like knobs better than jacks.

some of the doubts i have about the rack include:

• too many buffered mults or utility mixers? my research seems to indicate "you can never have too many"

• is an extra triatt (attenuator, attenuverter, mixer, CV mod) overkill in a system based on simpler patches?

• is the dixie II+ really necessary? i know it's very popular and that there's SUPPOSED to be something special about triangle core oscillators, but i didn't hear anything inspiring in the demo(s) i watched.

• are dual ring mods & sample & holds overkill when doepfer makes a 1 each module?

• would a smaller & simpler "2hp gap filler" random noise generator be adequate instead of the 8hp doepfer space hog?

• is the A-120 (moog ladder filter) "one trick pony?" really necessary with so many other great filters?

• would it be better to have two doepfer mixers, or maybe a larger stereo one?

• is the intellijel VCA really needed with the 3 others? (for "clean sounds"?)

• does the MIDI expander help?

• does the erica synths black VCO expander really offer enough flexibility to justify using it, or would something else fill a need better?

• is there something that could add more synth tone or fill a hole in the system better than the spring reverb, like maybe a dedicated pre-amp for processing audio? as streams is supposed to be a stereo processor & envelope follower, i was considering that as my audio in

it took a lot of learning to sort through issues like learning function generator is just another way to say LFO/ADSR and not some unique module you "absolutely gotta have". as i'm not really into LFO effects, i eventually ditched batumi & its expander as well as the quad clock distributor & before that, erica's wogglebug, & ultra-random analogue for redundancies and really like the sound of pamela's workout for clock & LFO modulation as it's compact, seems more flexible than batumi/QCD and best of all, is programmable, though i still expect i'd do most of my clocking through MIDI.

OK if anyone has any opinions on modules that are redundant, can be replaced by something better sounding or performing (without adding hard to understand complexity), or some essential function i'm overlooking (i'm pretty sure i at least have EVERY ARP 2600 module covered and then some) i'd appreciate the input, but can't guarantee not to argue with you about it.

maths? DON'T START! i just really have it in for that module (& its graphics) and having seen it FORCED on someone else only makes me hate it more

in general conversation about modules, someone mentioned how important logic is, but i really can't see any need for it, like quantizers, as that seems more like a complicated patch/sequencer thing where i should be able to get most of my pitch & modulation from a DAW sequencer and never be bothered with a pointless random voltage generator which does nothing for tone or melody for that matter as far as i'm concerned.

try to think of this more as a "flexible 1980s punk/funk synthesizer" or an ARP with attitude as i call it than the "techno modulars" everyone else has.

thank you for your time & patience if you've done nothing more than read this far dealing with some uppity noob who doesn't respect "your modular culture" more often than not. HOPEFULLY people here have enough LOGIC (pun intended) not to take insults against their favorite modules and techniques PERSONALLY. you are not your rack or the style of music you love! i know i sometimes come off as gruff & offensive because i have an ACTUAL logic based personality where insulting anything other than a person, directly, is both fair game & nothing to get worked up about, but people... irrational, emotional, impossible to understand because they're "so random" (pun intended) people still do.

here... i LOVE early art of noise... say ANYTHING you want about them, or sampling... it's FINE. i have a life, and AON is just a subset of that so PLEASE stop steaming over how much i hate filter sweeps! LOL they aren't your RELIGION or your momma. they are things that people can talk about that have NOTHING to do with you... unless you're easily ruffled which isn't my fault, or as i like to say... they make prozac for that.

i had to learn humor as a social skill in dealing with irrationals. hopefully more people laughed than screamed at their monitor here.

EDITED Jun 19th 2017, 03:51

from my totally amateur noob perspective... intellijel's shapeshifter is the craziest, most unique, overflowing with tonal possibilities (even including multiple forms of vocoding!) if REALLY hard to understand, and not analogue, module. that & as mentioned, the equally crazy as far as filters go, morpheus can do tons of stuff traditional analogue can't.

for me... TONE is the absolute highest priority & you couldn't pay to corrupt my rack with too hard to wrap my head around maths (i'd rather break all of its functions down to individual modules myself) or a sequencer & make self modulating patches.

shapeshifter is virtually a synthesizer unto itself it's soooo deep. that... and it would eat up so much rack space you wouldn't be able to fit ugly ugly ugly maths in it. HAHAHAHA!

i don't have a synth, but lately, i've been trying to deepen my understanding beyond the basic modules in a hard wired analogue synths and am building an imaginary "tone bender" system designed for sound design & "live performance" (DAW sequenced & modulated). i'm not at all a fan of quantization (read analogue sequencers, which IRONICALLY sound more rigid & digital whereas you can get looser analogue sounding timing out of digital sequencers at high quantize rates), self modulating patches, pretty much despise filter sweeps and resonance, and don't have a lot of love for LFO effects or slow evolving pads & drones, BUT i love "bouncy" ahhh-whooop, boing boing, back & forth "scratching" & echo etc. type sounds along with dubstep bass wobble but not so much the gritty HF digital fizz though. wobble would sound better with pulse width modulation, a thick filter and maybe even some tubes to my ears.

i can't seem to find modules that'd do the kind of modulations i'm looking for, namely triggered non ADSR envelopes and more important, pitch modulation. i'm THINKING, that it would be easy to do that kind of modulation in a DAW sequencer by capturing mod wheel (or better yet... faster ribbon controller) performances and copying and pasting them to notes & patterns along with hand drawing modulations and in the case of amplitude, modulate a VCA to go beyond boring attack sustain release modulation & do down & up whoops, volume & tone dropping repeats & "dub echoes" or "LFO speed up & slow down" wobble type effects.

the other ways i've imagined trying to break out of the ADSR straight jacket and create pitch envelopes were using an advanced digital LFO like erica's workout and sync it to the beat and figure out how to patch the modulation, probably using an on/off gate, right? but that would create an even more annoying quantized straightjacket forcing kraftwerk/techno beats where i'm looking for sloppy funk syncopation, and the other possibility was using an envelope follower, maybe tracking samples with the envelopes i'd want to use, but in the one demo i saw on youtube, they don't track very well at all.

if i had my way, there'd be a digital hybrid envelope generator/trigger where you could hand draw per-note pitch modulations as well as chose from a selection of "wavetables" for effects like scratching, trigger short sequences for dubstep wobbles and match or contrast amplitudes the same way digitally modulating a VCA so you're creating both trigger and envelope modulations from the same source. oh... and when i say "hand drawing"... i don't mean "connect the dots" sawtooth junk, but smooth linear & exponential curves & sines, though if someone wanted to pitch bend a sawtooth or squarewave, they could do that too.

MAYBE one could could do SOME of this stuff (triggered LFO) with crazy cool intellijel shapeshifter, but other than the cool sounds it's capable of in demos, a lot of its technical description is like the wah wah wah wuh wah wah muted trumpet sound of adults talking in peanuts cartoons... but kind of the sound i'm looking for.

BTW... it really annoyed me when i learned envelope generators are at the END of the signal chain and i DESPISED the impossible to get funky to click track on what became my useless alesis HR16 drum machine. i could not ever do a funky beat with it even with 256ppq because that ANNOYING click track made everything i played (a challenge in itself when you can't just freestyle or at least follow a funky beat) sounded like kraftwerk, even WITH claps & cowbells! LOL (quantizing MIDI after the fact tape recorder style is another issue)

so... am i right? is the best way to modulate pitch & amplitude "mod wheel" style with a DAW & drawing the fast stuff by hand using a MIDI to CV converter at the sequencer level and substituting a VCA for an envelope generator?

it'd be handy if someone thought to AUTOMATE that kind of modulation in a module... throw in sampled transients of everything from plucked and bowed strings to bashed woodblocks, pieces of metal, drums & even balloons etc. etc. etc. to give sounds specific percussive textures... and then you'd REALLY have something. that's my "non-modular" percussionist leaning perspective.

take the soft attack of a balloon, modulate it with a "boo-ah boo-ah" pitch & amplitude envelope and run it through a "rubbery filter" and you have something 100x cooler than more 303 filter sweeps. god do i ever hate those! LOL

for what it's worth... this is my idea of "the perfect synth"... lots of VCOs & VCFs and audio mangling, simple modules that do only 1 thing and that are easier to understand than that dreaded maths everyone considers "essential", absolutely NO complicated patching or self modulating rhythms or tones, and at least one tube to tame those digital oscillators.

EDITED Jun 14th 2017, 04:30

This is everything I have, plus a Morpheus, minus a few items in a separate lunchbox for autonomy.

I might leave the Rene, Tempi and Echophon in a separate skiff, or put all of it into a 9U as shown here. Any recommendations on which case(s) to get?

user18081971 at 0

forgot to say how the modular bit is working, have 10 outputs from the modular into the Midas 160 and 7 outputs from the midas160 into the modular. Midas is really good for this as, I use the group out sliders and the aux out sliders, which are really nice and fast to set on the fly, can play them as opposed to turning a knob which is a slower to do in live situ. Do a little bit of patching on the go but automate a few different routings with the WMDmatrix, I used to use the Alyseum matrix for that but ran out of room, need a bigger case..as always…still its great trying to work with a limited set of modules, wish there was a eurorack matrix module with built in attenuverters per routing like the totally awesome Buchla 210e.

This is my first attempt at building a speculative Euorack. Any comments would be appreciated. I'm sure I've left something out.

What are the specs for the image you'd need? I might be able to provide one at some point.

Just a big jpg > 1500px

it is now possible to just not select any pedalboard and drop the pedals direct on the floor. We have the neutral and concrete floor. Is that enough? Else you have to provide a "black power coated metal" royalty free hires background :)

Cool, that should be good enough for now . . . but I think my knees and back will get sore after a while working on the floor!

What are the specs for the image you'd need? I might be able to provide one at some point.

John,

It WOULD be great though if you could just add a "DIY Black" option, or add a color option to the DIY Plywood one, which ever is easier.
-- JohnLRice

it is now possible to just not select any pedalboard and drop the pedals direct on the floor. We have the neutral and concrete floor. Is that enough? Else you have to provide a "black power coated metal" royalty free hires background :)

I love pedalgrid! Only thing that bothers me is I don't want to choose a pedal board (or even DIY plywood) - just put them directly on a floor of choice. Still would like to choose the size for the surface I put them on (like the DIY option).
-- KNYST

We have that now!

Hi,

I couldn't find where I had suggested a "rack mount pedalboard" option but looking closer at the DIY Plywood option it is actually almost perfect since the user can specify the size, very nice! So, probably never mind about a sliding rack shelf/tray/drawer option! ;-)

It WOULD be great though if you could just add a "DIY Black" option, or add a color option to the DIY Plywood one, which ever is easier. All of my pedal setups are mounted to black power coated metal and other people may be using black laminated or stained wood, so it would take care of a lot of folks to have a black DIY option.

Thanks! :-)

1. allow the addition of "outside modules" i found the planner to be TOTALLY useless because it didn't include modules i'm interested in

You can upload modules yourself

particularly the metasonix rk2 xs-vca (tube VCA) which i consider essential.

That module is listed here

2. add HP as a search term. when building racks, it gets harder & harder to finish them, especially when there's an odd number of HP available. searching for 1hp yields SOME results, but i'm positive not ALL. it should not only be a search term that helps people fill all available space, but it should be linkable to module types eg. 9hp filter (if any exist)

It already works that way. You can search for 9HP filters.

3. you need more categories.[...]

It has it's pro and cons. We try to keep the function list lean. That is more useful for beginners

5. offer module color as a search filter. i can't stand the look of mismatched racks and would add a row just for black modules and fill that up with whatever before building a mismatched

that is a good point. But it's one thing to provide a search filter and an other thing to set the color value in the 4000+ modules. Still I put this on my dev list.

6. fix your forum tex editor that can only count to 2. this is idea #6 even if the text editor hides it. apparently, when you create a second paragraph in a numbered item, the forum IGNORES YOUR numbering and resets the list to 0. i had to merge paragraphs to fix what your text editor broke

I see, but it is not easy to fix. This is a Markdown editor, similar as on Reddit or Github. I am using a 3rd party PHP module for the parsing. For (PARAGRAPH) hit enter twice or add two spaces at the end of the line.

7. speaking of hiding... DON'T HIDE MODULE REVIEWS!!! i look at a module that supposedly has 47 reviews, but go to the page... nope... no reviews. i haven't tried it since joining, but it should be public info seeing you advertise it. i despise such bait and switching

That is a misunderstanding. You can rate a module with 1 to 5 stars. Those 47 reviews are actual user votes for the specific module.

just put them directly on a floor of choice. Still would like to choose the size for the surface I put them on (like the DIY option).
-- KNYST

Good idea, this will come.

Please increase the max. allowed eurorack case hp width. I have a case that's two rows of 200hp each and can't add it because the max. width seems to be 168hp atm ;)
-- BigElbowski

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