Behringer FOUR PLAY

Words fail. This is disgraceful.

This is a another attempt at getting a quick buck and free advertising by creating outrage. They don't understand or don't CARE about the ethics behind open source workers and deliberately don't put credits anywhere except for their own website that, may I add, nobody visits except their legal team. That's right, just jump into this market, use open source work from a woman without giving proper credits, and call it foreplay because how else would anyone notice your company is run by actual pigs?

EDIT: corrected by @merzky_shoom ; I understood this as a clone of MI's veils mixed with a 1:1 copy of the Quad VCA front panel from Intellijel, well, turns out this time they don't even bother protecting themselves by taking open source work, they apparently just went straight for plagiarism? So eurorack module manufacturers have to buy patents now??

EDITED Jul 1st 2021, 19:59

@Egocentre Are Intelijel designs even open source? This just seems like straight-up theft with the expectation that Intellijel wouldn't be able to pay for litigation against a mammoth like Behringer.

EDITED Jul 1st 2021, 18:35

They even added the same boost switch. Bruh…

Effin' Uli...OK, going to have to find some brown duct tape to cover up the Behringer logos on the 2600 and Pro-1.

Maybe Sweetwater will redirect this to either the Mutable or Intellijel version on their website, like they did with the Swing. I thought that was a nice gesture...and once they did it, you really didn't hear much about the Swing anymore.

My advice to all companies in the modular synthesis world: DO REGISTER YOUR FRONT PANEL DESIGN! This falls under copyright protection and it makes it very difficult for other companies to almost completely copy that. The FOUR PLAY module from Behringer looks a lot like the Quad VCA from Intellijel, and I'm certain that this will result in a copyright infringement if the design is registered!
Software and Hardware are almost impossible to secure in this way, but at least you can secure your look and feel!

DO REGISTER YOUR DESIGNS! Checkout these websites for copyright protection of your designs:

• World Intellectual Property Organization: https://www.wipo.int/designs/en/
• European Union Intellectual Property Network: https://www.tmdn.org/network/home

Patents are expensive, registering your designs isn't. And they will protect against blatant copies of your design work like this one from Behringer FOUR PLAY. They only added a few words and changed colors. But it is clear to anyone that it is a copyright infringement if only the design of the Intellijel Quad VCA is registered.

Maybe Sweetwater will redirect this to either the Mutable or Intellijel version on their website, like they did with the Swing. I thought that was a nice gesture...and once they did it, you really didn't hear much about the Swing anymore.
-- Lugia

@Lugia Did they really do this? I never noticed but that is a pretty cool move for a company that I thought had done a complete 180 on Behringer. I remember years ago when they didn't even sell Behringer products at all, for whatever reasons they had.

I like Behringer's recreation of old synths that are out of production or only available as a modernized reissue. To me that's fine. The parts to those original synths typically don't exist anymore... so they have to be recreated, moved to a surface mount environment, build them to Eurorack conventions, as well as at least come close to sounding like the original (let's not debate how close for the sake of brevity).

But I find duplicating modern, in-production designs to be too much of an affront. This is a 1:1 rip-off of Intellijel's quad VCA.

If Behringer innovated the design, added more features, changed the ergonomics of it... then I could give it a pass. That's what good cottage industry modular makers do. But this is a bridge too far even for me.

Well that's my $0.02....

Maybe Sweetwater will redirect this to either the Mutable or Intellijel version on their website, like they did with the Swing. I thought that was a nice gesture...and once they did it, you really didn't hear much about the Swing anymore.
-- Lugia

@Lugia Did they really do this? I never noticed but that is a pretty cool move for a company that I thought had done a complete 180 on Behringer. I remember years ago when they didn't even sell Behringer products at all, for whatever reasons they had.
-- merzky_shoom

Yep, they really did. And still do...go to their site and type "Behringer Swing" into the search. All sorts of Behringer Swings there, all apparently made by some knockoff company called "Arturia".

Frankly, if there's a retailer that can slap the silly out of Uli, it would probably be them. Thomann's clearly bought-in on the Tribe, so you can't count on them for that. And no, Sweetwater isn't as "pro-Uli" as one might think, as that search cross-ref shows. Maybe they think they can get him to behave? Dunno...

EDITED Jul 2nd 2021, 23:29

sorry, I know this goes against the grain but I like it. The money I save on this allows me to add to a more expensive boutique module. I would have had to pay double the price if I bought the intellijel one. I.m definitely buying it. so far I have one vca from Behringer and it does the job just as well as my other modules. it looks nice too.

Yeah, that must how they started with the child labor at Nike, « it makes things cheaper ». It’s all fine, carry on…

Yeah, that must how they started with the child labor at Nike, « it makes things cheaper ». It’s all fine, carry on…
-- toodee

it's not why they started, but it is why they haven't stopped it yet...

This is repulsive just blatant theft of Intellijel intellectual property. If I saw this module in an artist's rack I'd never buy another album from that artist. Art means nothing without ethics.

ModularGrid is a database, like a directory of modules, we just show what is there. Discussions about the module here in the forum are o.k. but please stop replacing the image of the module with other unrelated silly images. Especially don't change the power specs with fantasy values. That is not helpful and will lead to numerous copies of this module which are a pain to track and merge.

There is a typo in the name it should be "Foul Play".

Taking bets on us having a Behringer 'Algebra' by the end of 2021. A sub $130 takes on Maths, like for like in every manner, only they have scribbled 'fuck you' right where the make noise logo use to be.

I just wonder what sort of weirdass wiring in Uli's head makes him do things like this. One minute, he's reissuing synths and other devices that are legendary pieces of "unobtainium", and the next he's ripping off small manufacturers and insulting music journalists. When he's not putting out things that give modern players the ability to use classic hardware (to varying degrees of success), he's really giving his own firm a big black eye and making it embarrassing to own anything from Behringer. Doesn't seem like a sensible business model to me...

all publicity is good publicity - we are all talking about them - the more we talk about them the more people hear the name etc etc etc

there's an Irish airline called Ryanair - their CEO has a similar approach - so he's been known to suggest standing room only flights and charging 5€ to use the toilet

every time he comes out with one of these the share prices go up

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 04:13

So disgraceful... What baffels me is that there is still a market for a cheap plastic eurorackmodule line, like their 29€ pedals. Just get a small team, design your own cirucits and release a super low-cost set of modules....

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 10:42

all publicity is good publicity - we are all talking about them - the more we talk about them the more people hear the name etc etc etc

there's an Irish airline called Ryanair - their CEO has a similar approach - so he's been known to suggest standing room only flights and charging 5€ to use the toilet

every time he comes out with one of these the share prices go up

-- JimHowell1970

My sentiments exactly. The only reason I have heard of this module is because there's a discussion here, not that there's any problem with that.

So disgraceful... What baffels me is that there is still a market for a cheap plastic eurorackmodule line, like their 29€ pedals. Just get a small team, design your own cirucits and release a super low-cost set of modules....
-- Gemuesepfanne

but that is effectively what they have done... from their point of view the aluminium faceplates may work out not that much more expensive due to economies of scale - and the sales of modules are no where near the numbers for guitar pedals - worldwide there are millions of guitarists, most of whom have some pedals - an existing market - whereas with synthesizers there may well be millions of synthesists - but only a small percentage of them have modulars - a much smaller existing market... and for the ones that don't have modulars, it's easier to sell them semis - as they don't require racks, power or sometimes patch cables

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 15:18

So disgraceful... What baffels me is that there is still a market for a cheap plastic eurorackmodule line, like their 29€ pedals. Just get a small team, design your own cirucits and release a super low-cost set of modules....
-- Gemuesepfanne

Hello, I have a few of the Behringer modules and can confirm there is nothing wrong with the build quality. I recently bought the Behringer 140 which has two adsr's with two outputs for the envelope and one inverted envelope (excellent) and also a very feature packed lfo. I got all that for £70 so over the moon with that purchase.

I'd be interested if the experts here could build all that functionality in a smaller hp footprint and as competitively priced. It would be nice to have the lights on the sliders included like I have which look slick when the lights in my room are dimmed. I am even thinking of investing in most of the Roland line just for the sheer aesthetics of how beautiful it looks.

Also I bought the 914 filter back for £46 and when I was researching this I remember seeing one by AJH at £475 which seemed like too much money to invest in for something I wouldn't be using all the time.

Best :)

What baffles me is the fact that certain people keep screwing around with other peoples work. ModularGrid is a wonderful tool and we can all enjoy it for free. At least have the courtesy to not ruin this place for others.

the great danger is that it will destroy the modular scene. a euro rack scene only with big players --- bleakly boring - but cheap for everyone ---. i don't have a lot of money either, but i can't buy the behringer - that would betray the scene. I prefer not to buy one or one later. people who want to save should think twice at this point.

I agree, AnalogSpecies. This becomes dangerous and giving precedent for many bad things happening.. from Behringher

I'm not afraid and I don't think it's a great danger. It's just Behringer pulling a stunt (again). I'm no expert but I don't think the modular scene is big enough (or will it ever be) for big companies to take over and ruin it. And besides that, many modular freaks seem to want to support the smaller companies instead anyway. I have no fear at all. Just stay calm, support your favorite companies, patch on and everything will be fine.

the great danger is that it will destroy the modular scene. a euro rack scene only with big players --- bleakly boring - but cheap for everyone ---. i don't have a lot of money either, but i can't buy the behringer - that would betray the scene. I prefer not to buy one or one later. people who want to save should think twice at this point.
-- AnalogSpecies

Totally agree on choosing not to buy Behringer euro gear, at least this sort that blantly copies current designs. But to be honest, if we are thinking that the euro scene is going to be destroyed by cheaper recreations of gear, I don't really know if it is worth saving. It's one thing to commit to support the individuals/ small-ish businesses that invent unique and high-quality designs (Intellijel) but I don't think the integrity/wonder of the euro scene really weighs on that point alone, or at least I hope it doesn't.

I don't plan on purchasing this Behringer euro gear, but I do think it was inevitable, and I do think it is providing grounds for a really important discussion on what matters in eurorack/ hardware modular. I'd rather it not just be about a manufacturer/consumer relationship.

Not a peep about Mutable Instruments Veils, or the countless other module companies with a quad vca clone LMAO!!!! This is just the newest one. People love to bash Behringer, meanwhile, they're killin it. You should go to their page and see what some of their customers have to say about their products. For some it's life changing being able to afford that gear. It's only people sitting in there studios with thousands of dollars of gear all paid for whining. These stuffy fools can't stand to see someone pay less money than them. "They're destroying the modular community!" Lower costs and quality products will only expand the modular community. But hey, feel free to disagree

Uli… is that you?

Modular is certainly an expensive adventure. Sometimes the economical route is the only choice, and I wouldn't hold it against someone if they choose that route. But one thing to keep in mind, if everyone gives their money to the cloners instead of the innovators, we are eventually going to run out of innovators.

"They're destroying the modular community!" Lower costs and quality products will only expand the modular community.
-- Valektricity

lol "quality products" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
P.O.S 💩 more like

I think we'll see a stratification of the market. The "simple" analog modules will get less and less expensive. When it comes down to it, for the bread & butter stuff... people are all drawing from the same pool of electronic components. If you're rolling your own diodes and ICs and next-level stuff... okay.

But if you're building yet another MS-20 filter clone, not so much.

I'm fine with Behringer blowing out the easy stuff and low hanging fruit. It introduces more people into modular synthesis. How many buffered mults do we need?

The creative Eurorack builders will still be around. The innovators will be around.

Maybe Sweetwater will redirect this to either the Mutable or Intellijel version on their website, like they did with the Swing. I thought that was a nice gesture...and once they did it, you really didn't hear much about the Swing anymore.
-- Lugia

@Lugia Did they really do this? I never noticed but that is a pretty cool move for a company that I thought had done a complete 180 on Behringer. I remember years ago when they didn't even sell Behringer products at all, for whatever reasons they had.
-- merzky_shoom

hay guys, I just did some link checking, and if you go to Behringer's site for the FOUL PLAY, and click the affiliate buy link for Sweetwater, you do in fact, get the Intellijel Quad VCA Eurorack Amplifier and Cascaded Mixer Module

so ya, there is that.

This entire Behringer thing reminds me of the old Kush vs schwag argument. Both do the job, one is just way more expensive and "luxury" while the other is for the "lower class" .

So this schwag going for 105.13 USD or £89.00 Euro.
The Kush is 189 USD or 159.99 Euro

https://www.andertons.co.uk/ shows a 3 month lead time.

wuba wuba wuba

All I see is a bunch of Socialists hanging out on this page. For half price, I'll buy the Behringer stuff all day long. It's actually a feather in Uli's cap that his legal team keeps figuring out ways to out-perform the marketplace. Capitalism isn't for the faint of heart. Get better lawyers or move back home and cry to your mamas and I'll go buy another half price Eurotrash module.

EDITED Feb 22nd 2023, 01:34

All I see is a bunch of Socialists hanging out on this page. For half price, I'll buy the Behringer stuff all day long. It's actually a feather in Uli's cap that his legal team keeps figuring out ways to out-perform the marketplace. Capitalism isn't for the faint of heart. Get better lawyers or move back home and cry to your mamas and I'll go buy another half price Eurotrash module.
-- longhairgreg

Ha, I don't think you realize capitalism works both ways...the consumer has the right to buy the products they want. When the consumers decide some company is ripping beloved companies off, and take their dollars elsewhere, that is the definition of a boycott.

Any self-respecting capitalist would recognize boycotting as a key feature of a capitalist society. It is a tool that holds self-respecting companies in check.

I have a couple of pieces of Behringer studio gear, not going to lie. Their prices are ridiculously attractive for things like mixers, or 19" studio gear. I bought this stuff prior to knowing anything about Behringer, and honestly, it's actually pretty good bang for the buck.

HOWEVER, just a bit of research into modular started really throwing up some disgusting personal and business practices, breach of law or at least ethics kinds of stuff. After learning this, I decided I didn't care if I could build a rack at half the price...I don't want some chithead racist corporate thief's equipment in my synth, and I'll probably never buy another piece of Behringer gear again.

I really can't hold it against anyone for having Behringer gear...I get it.

But the schwag comparison above is apt. I'd rather pay out the premium for the kush, direct from the source, nice and fresh, and support the growers, than get some 'merch brickweed routed through the Mexi border at a steal of a deal.

All I see is a bunch of Socialists hanging out on this page.
-- longhairgreg

Ha, I don't think you realize capitalism works both ways...the consumer has the right to buy the products they want. When the consumers decide some company is ripping beloved companies off, and take their dollars elsewhere, that is the definition of a boycott.
-- Jukeshoe

I'd say that's more "free market economy"

Which to a very large extent could (and does) exists in both 'capitalist' and 'socialist' 'democracies' - which should not to be confused with communism - especially the piss poor attempts at it, that we have seen so far - which have effectively done exactly the same as capitalism - ie a small 'elite' group siezes control, power and a vast majority of the wealth and subjugates the masses

Remember that this is an international forum - not just one populated by those that have been misguidedly taught that socialism is a bad thing - so using 'socialist' as a derogatory term makes you look like a right-wing American idiot

BUT really this is a forum about modular synthesizers - so can we please keep politics out of it and concentrate on the core subject and leave political discourse to other, more suitable, forums

EDITED Feb 23rd 2023, 00:17

Word Jim. FYI the Intellijel uses less current and is also shallower.

Modular is certainly an expensive adventure. Sometimes the economical route is the only choice, and I wouldn't hold it against someone if they choose that route. But one thing to keep in mind, if everyone gives their money to the cloners instead of the innovators, we are eventually going to run out of innovators.
-- PragmaticusMax

Sadly some are too stupid and selfish to even acknowledge this simple fact.

This is repulsive just blatant theft of Intellijel intellectual property. If I saw this module in an artist's rack I'd never buy another album from that artist. Art means nothing without ethics.

-- Sedalus

Art has nothing to do with money or politics.

EDITED Nov 29th 2023, 17:47

I don't understand all the screaming and bashing of Behringer products.
If you want to combine quality with design, buy Intellijel or Doepfer or others, if you want to buy inexpensively, buy Behringer...
Doepfer Quad-VCA is only slightly more expensive...
So people, make music or noise, but let each buyer make their own decision!

I don't understand all the screaming and bashing of Behringer products.

then you haven't been buying music tech for a long time and/or haven't done a minimum level of due diligence

there's a big thread on modwiggler re the ethics of the company... I suggest you read at least some of it! it's not a new thing - they've been doing it since they started, at least 20 years ago and not just with synthesizers... cheap and shoddy knock offs of whatever music tech they think they can sell... and not treating customers or competitors or critics with any respect whatsoever...

let me correct this for you:

If you want to combine quality with design, buy Intellijel or Doepfer or others, if you want to buy inexpensively, buy

Doepfer or Ladik

Doepfer Quad-VCA is only slightly more expensive...

indeed - on a per vca price - so are veils clones or the intellijel for that matter - we're not talking about cwejman clones!

So people, make music or noise, but let each buyer make their own decision!
-- ricochet-75

but let's make sure that it's an informed decision and not based purely on price:

do you want to buy from (corporate) arseholes who only poorly copy other peoples designs or do you want to spend a few extra quid and give your money to small companies that actually design things (ok so those designs may be based on other things - but at least they put some effort in and may actually innovate from time to time)

There is more to the Behringer situation than just ethics. Quality is a factor too. My first exposure to Behringer was a little more than 20 years ago. At the time I was not into modular but I was into Hi-Fi. I purchased a fancy Behringer digital equalizer (19" rack mount) and straight out of the box it had an extremely annoying echo that would randomly come and go on the right channel, and the audio quality was not very good either. This EQ was supposed to use its included microphone to measure the room's response and adjust the EQ parameters accordingly--this did not work. As part of my troubleshooting process I tested the microphone by itself and found its response to be all over the place. I was able to operate the EQ manually but no matter what I did the sound quality problem and the right-channel echo persisted. Behringer's tech support was useless, luckily the dealer I bought it from was willing to take it back and give me a refund. The unit was cheaply built given the price and their customer service was essentially non-existant.
The next time I heard about Behringer was on a youtube channel focusing on vintage electronics. Things like 1950'-1980's computers, teletypes, electromechanical calculators, vintage electronic test equipment, early space communications gear, were the usual features on the channel. Then one day a modern Behringer UB1202 module shows up instead of the expected vintage NASA stuff. I didn't know what Eurorack was at the time, but I do rembember the engineer complaining as he replaced every capacitor in the module because they were bottom-of-the-barrel junk which had all failed.

On the ethics side of things, I feel their copying of other designs is reprehensible, but at the same time I think that kind of thing is tricky to talk about. I would much rather buy from innovators rather than soulless corporations mass-producing inferior copies of someone else's idea but the harsh reality is that we all have to do that kind of thing from time to time. I'd bet that many of those who would criticize others for purchasing Behringer modules out of financial necessity own plenty of products which were copied from other designs without credit, they're just things they don't notice or care about. Do you own a socket set? If it wasn't made by Snap-On, it's a knockoff....but I certainly can't fault the average person for buying a cheaper one. How many of us have Ikea furniture instead of buying handmade from small designers?

Poor argumentation.

Let's take an unoffical poll: how many of us saw what ever module B had released and immediately upon seeing it thought, "Hang on?! That looks like...", then wondered here to have a closer look and get confirmation?

Of course there are very few new concepts, mostly just merging differnt combos of current building blocks, with specific UX/UI. But the fact that they haven't even tried to do anything different, layout, labels...It feels at the least provocative, if not an outright middle finger.

This is repulsive just blatant theft of Intellijel intellectual property. If I saw this module in an artist's rack I'd never buy another album from that artist. Art means nothing without ethics.

-- Sedalus

Art has nothing to do with money or politics.

-- AEROCATONE

in a perfect world... we can but dream!

Poor argumentation.

Let's take an unoffical poll: how many of us saw what ever module B had released and immediately upon seeing it thought, "Hang on?! That looks like...", then wondered here to have a closer look and get confirmation?

yeah that's what happens to me...

Of course there are very few new concepts, mostly just merging differnt combos of current building blocks, with specific UX/UI. But the fact that they haven't even tried to do anything different, layout, labels...It feels at the least provocative, if not an outright middle finger.
-- FATSO

the clones of in production modules aren't just a middle finger... they're outright corporate bullying - b-company knows they won't be sued by Arturia or Make Noise or Intellijel or Xaoc - as any such action will end up bankrupting them & probably before it gets to court...