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Hi all, rookie here, hoping someone could help me out and eyeball the below!
I'm looking to build something in 6U / 104hp that will let me do some sample mangling and (analog) west coast synthesis; sound design for individual parts in DAW projects; and be decent for live performance. I already have a Keystep Pro to use as a sequencer and a Babyface Pro to use as an interface. As a no-budget exercise, does this look like a sensible build? Anything major missing as far as utilities and usability?
The main modules I'm excited about are the Verbos Complex Oscillator, Beads, Salmple and Data Bender. Was also happy that I had space to shoehorn some chiptune oscs in there, and Blades seems like so much fun (though there are a lot of filter options that have me conflicted, mainly QPAS). Musically I'm all over the place -- it's a big ask for the space constraint but I'd like to be able to make everything from Caterina Barbieri-style minimal synth to blown-out experimental hip-hop, and I can imagine doing that with the build I've got going here.
Interesting rack. I'm going off of the version of your rack you modified yesterday, not the one pictured (slight differences). You have the basics covered. The only thing I could really critique is a lack of a dedicated LFO source. Granted the Pam's can generate them and the STO can get down to 8Hz... but 8Hz is kind of fast for an LFO.
I would hold off on the STO, Threshold, and Databender for a second round of purchasing. Always leave yourself some room to change your mind or fix some deficiency you've overlooked. If you populate a rack completely, you have no wiggle room and will either need to buy another rack, or remove/sell off some modules to make space for what's needed.
It's a bit of a broken record, but I would try to work in some sort of multi-function module. A Disting EX is a great choice since it includes a lot of great programs. The Disting Mk4 is okay since it's only 4HP. But the interface can be a little frustrating.
Check out the 1010 Music BitBox Mk2. It's 5HP larger than the Salmple and about $100 more. But it'll offer you twice as many trigger inputs (16) and having a nice big GUI is helpful (for me at least). Additionally it has a 3.5mm MIDI input. You should be able to patch it up via MIDI to your Keystep Pro to save using all of your gate outputs to trigger samples. It can also live loop record if you send it the proper clocks. The Salmple might be your thing. But at least know what else is out there.
The QPAS is a stereo filter. So to get the most out of it, you have to send it a stereo signal. Blades is a dual filter, meaning you get two independent multi-mode filters. You can use one for left and the other for right if you have a stereo signal. Unless you're planning on doing a lot of stereo work, I'd go with Blades.
Heh...managed to beat the original price by $500 with this:
Voicing's on the top, modulation/control on the bottom.
Top row: The AXON1 expands the Salmple with four more assignable CV ins. I also put a Doepfer stereo mixer for summing the individual outs into a single stereo out. Changed the oscillator to the real deal: a Buchla/TipTop 258t...which saved a TON of room! After that is a bitcrushing ring mod from Recovery, then a Veils provides four VCAs for controlling source amplitudes. Blades is after that, followed by a dual VCA for controlling amplitudes off of the Blades or Beads. The output mixer is a stereo-only affair from Happy Nerding, allowing you to sum up to four stereo signals, which seemed like a good choice here. No output stage, though; I wanted to put that Befaco back in, but space limitations put a stop to that, so just make sure to attenuate the HN's output so that you don't hit your mixer with synth-level signals.
Bottom row: Pam's, Nanorand, Cold Mac, then a quad LFO. After that, you've got Maths, then a Frap 321 for modulation summing and manipulation. This is paired with another Doepfer dual VCA. Then I put in a Quadrax + its Qx expander for complex signals...since you can use the EOR and EOF triggers to cascade the EGs, or you can use the Qx's outs to fire other processes in the build. Then there's a basic dual ADSR for your VCF (or VCA...depends on what you're up to). After that is the chiptune source and I've directly paired that to the Data Bender for maximum glitchy, weird results. Again, this also feeds to the HN Stereo Mixer.
This actually turned out better than I thought it might. Some of the modules just didn't fit, but thus far only one of those was significant, and that was the Optomix. The rest of them are either your specs or they do what your specs did, albeit in a smaller space...and this left space open for more functionality. Then things were added so that what's there can really cut loose. However, you should definitely think about Ronin's ideas for the sampler...either going slightly bigger (might be difficult) or smaller (MUCH better) could be useful here.
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Lugia is 100x correct. I would get the new Tiptop Buchla modules over Verbos and save money. Plus lot of issues on reliability and lack of customer support from what I've heard with Verbos. My next build will have tiptop buchla and random source Serge modules. Just like a real Porsche, there is no substitute for the real thing.
Just like a real Porsche, there is no substitute for the real thing.
-- sacguy71
Too true! Frankly, I'm STILL boggled over both Tiptop taking this on AND how much they cost! And yeah, we can now cross-merge a BUNCH of classic modules (well...some are clones, but yeah) into builds that, back when these modules were NEW, would simply not be possible because none of this stuff talked the same "protocol". Buchla 258 + ARP 2600 oscillators -> Steiner Synthacon VCF -> Roland 100M VCAs & Buchla 281 and Maths for mod sources is a patch that simply could not be done, period. At least, not back then...
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Exactly Lugia. We have lots of choices now at more affordable prices than ever before. I mean modular is not cheap but studio equipment is fantastic now we can get quality studio monitors, free or low cost DAW software and mixers for a fraction of what it would cost decades ago. Iām looking forward to recording modular into tracks once my 1010 Bluebox arrives and remixing into Ableton or Reaper than add to Morphagene for creating more unique mixes once my new Make Noise Shared System arrives.
And don't forget: tons of VERY capable computers are out there, too...thanks to corporations that constantly turn over their equipment, often due to tax purposes. The ability to snag a major-scale Xeon workstation for $1000 that can outstrip most any typical consumer-grade computer...there's nothing like it, really. True, they're not new, but they're often available in full refurbs via joints like Newegg or on Amazon as well.
Hey all, I missed that these responses happened initially, thanks so much for putting thought into this! I actually responded to this thread a couple of weeks ago but deleted it because it was an unfocused 3am ramble haha. I've put a lot more work in over the past few months so I have some more experience to go off of and a solid collection of modules too. Still scratching my head over the layout though. Here's a draft for discussion:
The first two rows here are the main draft of the Mantis that I basically already have / am planning (draft keeps changing, these are the broad strokes through). Currently I'm swapping out the STMix / Befaco Out for the OPTX depending on whether I'm playing out or at home. The third row is stuff I'd be interested in shoehorning if space allowed (already have the Neb and the Buchla Quad) and the fourth row is stuff I already have but will likely sell.
I'm trying to decide between: 1) Sticking to the Mantis; 2) Getting a slightly bigger case to shoehorn the few extra modules my current setup seems to want; or 3) Getting a second Mantis to have a "studio" case and a "performance" case, which would give me some space to grow into. There aren't any wrong options there, just more expensive options haha.
A few design notes I'm thinking about: Lugia, that draft you put together was really helpful! I picked up the A-138s and it's quickly become a favorite utility; and I think the points about the Verbos were spot on. This draft is missing some of the utilities (lighter on VCAs, less the Frap 321, less the Quadrax), but includes some things I've ended up using a lot (Pique for modulation cv, a matrix mixer for feedback patching, Mutes for controlling that feedback patching and a sequential switch). I have the Buchla FG, which is basically a Quadrax plus expander, but I need to spend more time with it -- so far I've had fun with it but haven't really accomplished anything musically relevant, which is why the Quadrax isn't currently included in the main draft. Ended up with an Entropy over the Nano Rand because of how obnoxious the light is on the Nano, but also because I found that S+H and noise were by far my most-used functions on the Nano and the Entropy worked to fill the awkward 3-hp hole left by the Salmple. I ended up liking the overall sound and functionality of the Dipole much better than Blades (though Blades has a fantastic distortion stage) and fell in love with the sound and functionality of the ZPO, so am planning to go with it over the 258t (although the Buchla obviously sounds amazing too). Re: the Squid Salmple, it's just amazing and the current backbone of my workflow -- I love it to pieces and wouldn't trade it for a Bitbox or external sampler, though I have been curious about the Assimil8or because of its similarity to Squid (with mostly expanded functionality).
Welcoming any further feedback and I now where to look for notifications now!
re: the case dilemma - I'd buy a second mantis - then you have space for all the modules that you already have and for the utilities that you need: more vcas especially - and then the 258t and blades may turn out to be a really useful second voice... (selling the verbos CO should easily fund both a used mantis and veils for example) if you arrange the modules well for your workflow then there'll be no need to swap things around and you can have a performance case and a studio only case - work out how to arrange them and it'll be easy to just pulll out the performance case whenever you want it (don't use the brackets though - otherwise you'll never move them!)
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
That makes a lot of sense, especially hearing someone else say it! The infinite options boggle my brain sometimes haha. Will likely be moving down that road soon - thanks!
I got that second Mantis, ignored Jim and got the brackets, didn't like how big and unfocused the whole thing was, realized Jim was right about the brackets, panicked at the flippancy of my approach, returned the second mantis.
Another few months of trial and error and this is what it's looking like:
Happy to say, it's finally starting to feel coherent!
Nerdseq means I don't have to drag the KSP around anymore if I don't want to -- plus I already have experience with trackers and the extra envelopes and lfos free up the rest of the rack considerably. Vortices streamlines the decentralized mixing I had been doing, plus acts as extra VCAs; Tides gives me access to complex / interrelated envelopes and LFOs when I want them; Select 2 neatly fills a few utility holes in minimal hp (offsetting, switches, "hang" circuits, muting); and those tiny VCAs (most recent pickup) allow me to fit in the Befaco Out, which it turns out I really don't like going without.
I'll be picking up a 3Ux84hp skiff this week as an overflow case and I think that's where I'm gonna park for the long term. I'm loving the main rack, and the overflow will be enough to let me keep OPTX and a few other modules of interest sitting around without being tempted to let it grow out of control. It also seems fun to make portable mini systems every now and then (out of stuff I already have).
