Playing around with ideas for a 15u rack - come critique my rack before I start spending!

Hi all,

I've been dipping my toes into modular for about a year and a half now, and am starting to think about expanding into a serious system. I've been eyeing the Case from Lake resealable 15u 126 hp model (https://www.casefromlake.com/product-page/15u-126-hp-84-104-or-other-eurorack-portable-case-powered-patched-resealable) as being sufficient for me to build a rack without too many sacrifices (no harm in dreaming big and pretending I have the funds). I put together the linked rack to see if this is the direction I want to head.

Goals of the rack:
1) Be interactive and playable.
2) Able to perform hands-off generative music.
3) Be a versatile multi-voice instrument with lots of sound mangling possibilities.
4) Be self-contained when needed, and able to connect with external gear as needed.

Planning the rack:
1) Making it interactive - I figured the "playing surface" would be the outside perimeter (rows 1 and 5 and the exteriors of the inner rows), as the inner rows would hard to access once patched. I added joysticks and some macro-controllers, and placed the more wiggle-able modules on the perimeter o make it more playable.
2) Grouping by function - I have a general pattern starting with sequencers and midi in the bottom left, moving up to inputs and drums and then triggers and gates and randomness in the center. Above that are modulators and then the voices on the top left. Moving to the top right, there are audio manipulators, below that are envelopes and the like. The center right will be the main output area, with mixers and effects and such. The bottom right has more modulators and other interactive modules. Utilities are sprinkled throughout.

Questions:
1) Am I thinking along the right track for an instrument that will meet my goals?
2) Am I missing anything important, or are there better/more available modules for the job?
3) Are there redundancies and modules I can remove to reclaim hp?
4) Do you have suggestions on other ways to organize the rack to make it a coherent and playable instrument?

Thanks a bunch everyone!

Seems clear to me that you know what you’re doing and what you want.

Have you considered Clump by NLC for your matrix mixer? I’d be inclined to sacrifice the Mordax to free up the extra space and replace the Quadra with a Quadrax, especially if you’re interested in complex generative patches. I’d also add a slope detector and a probability skipper. Oh and I’d swap Beads for a Microcell - I just think it can do so much more.

Oh and maybe some offset/attenuvert next to the RND STEP

Looks like a great rig!

EDITED Oct 31st 2022, 20:41

Thanks so much for the feedback! I've been trawling through the forums for a while trying to collect all the tips and info you and other power users have been suggesting about building racks - I'm happy to hear that I seem to be on the right track.

I was worried that I had some functionality blindspots in the design. Hadn't looked into slope detectors before, but they seem like really useful utilities. If I understand them correctly, they'll send out gates while they detect a changing cv signal, correct? Can those be used with audio signals, as well?

Also, that microcell looks sweet, I'll definitely have to check that out.

Thanks again!

The description of what you want sounds defined enough and the modules are well thought out. You also have enough VCAs and modulation sources in my opinion. You say you want to be able to make generative music - is this also your main goal with this rack, or do you want to create other types of music as well?

A few things that I've noticed, maybe you thought about these points already:
- You say you want to be "able to connect with external gear as needed", what kind of external gear? The options I see are optical and USB on the ES-8, 6.3mm jack in on the A-119 external input and XLR on the Transmit 2. Maybe it'd be wise to add a stereo 6.3mm jack in/output module, like an fx send/return or something. But again, depends on the type of gear you want to connect with.
- There are not a lot of trigger / gate sources from which you can synch / reset / sequence all your envelope generators and LFOs from. As far as I can see you only have eight outputs from Pamela's New Workout and six from Euclidean Circles (or four if you link the first two channels). This might be okay for you but I'd say that the clock sources on pamela's are used up quickly, you already need at least three to six to sync and reset the Metropolix, René and Euclidean Circles. In generative / ambient music this is less required but if you want to keep everything in sync maybe a second Pamela's New Workout + Pexp-2 would be good to have for some extra time-synched stuff.
- The go-to module for generative music is Music Thing Modular Turing Machine. You could also have this functionality in Ornament & Crime but it might be worth a look.
- You have seven voices and two main sequencers with (AFAIK) two output channels each. This gives you room to create melodies from LFOs, envelopes or shift registers such as the Turing Machine, but these melodies need a quantizer (at least if you want to use traditional scales). You only have one two-channel quantizer, which, if you focus on generative or non-tradional sequencing, might be not enough for what you want (although Ornament & Crime can be a quantizer as well).

Full disclosure: I'm fairly new at eurorack with only two years in.

I'd say this rig goes well beyond the Turing Machine IMO plus the O_c's own quad shift register is far more of a capable Turing just on its own. Between the RND STEP and Source of Uncertaincy for S/H and smooth random, there's plenty of source material for complex generative - especially with that matrix mixer close by.

Thanks @dubstepjoris for the detailed response!

To be honest, I'm hoping for the rig to be able to do a bit of everything. I've currently got a 6u Rackbrute + Minibrute 2s setup, which I'm planning on turning into a standalone synth for more beat oriented music, so this rig can be predominantly generative focused.

Good point about the trigger sources and quantizers. As @Manbearpignick says, I tend to use the O_c for shift registers and quantizing, so I'm hoping that the 2 there plus the Scales will get me where I want to go. Then again, I'm definitely eyeing the Harmonaig and a few others. It's amazing that with a rack this size, it still feels like I have to make compromises in places.

Thanks again everyone!

Hadn't looked into slope detectors before, but they seem like really useful utilities. If I understand them correctly, they'll send out gates while they detect a changing cv signal, correct?

-- HGsynth

Btw you actually already have two in the Joranalogue Compare 2 but those can be linked and can do so many things besides slope detection. I have one too but also a Ladik Deriviator that I tend to use for slopes only, sometimes paired with some logic to autmate the record button on my Morphagene.

Thanks for pointing that out. I have a Compare 2 now, mostly use it for the logic section. Still trying to figure out how to integrate it into my patches, to be honest.

You have quite a lot of LFO's. By my count, it's 62 separate sources. That includes not only the dedicated LFO modules but also things like Pam's, Data, Maths, Zadar, and the Cs-L (9 in LFO mode). That would be difficult to keep track of and tweak in large patches. And a lot of Polarizers, 17 or so I see, which may not all be so necessary when so many modules have built in attenuverters.

I'm really big into Buffered Multiples. I have 14 and it's not enough. I'll tell you why you should consider adding more using a simple idea from your system:

Switchy Glitchy-Icicle Sound:
— Start with a Boring Sound > Send it to your Buffered Multiple and split it into 2 copies.
— Sound 1 goes into Data Bender and into Veils 1-2.
— Sound 2 goes into Beads (Scorched Cassette mode) and into Veils 3-4.
— Split a single LFO and invert one copy in 321. Send each to Veils 1-2, 3-4. (Split the inverted copy for later)
... Now the sound will rotate between two crunchy variations, call it "Data Blending Grains of Beads". Mix down in Stmix or send to Morph 4 for deeper crossfading with a another source.

But you're entirely out of Multis and you've only made one sound! That idea expands out of your reach if you multiply Beads into not only Veils but another VCA and trigger the Freeze function using the extra copy of the inverted LFO that gated your Data Bender channel. Then you'd have a Data Bender Sound with Frozen Beads interspersed which could then be sent for further processing in FX Aid—all with only one LFO needed. But a typical LFO is too predictable; you could humanize your crossfading with Zadar as an LFO and modulate the shape of the envelope in realtime. You could control the volume curves of the crossfading using the Nin expander with your Joystick, but you'd need at least another 2 multiples to move that depth of modulation from a single controller. Or you could 'play' the crossfade with the knob control: Turn Left for the Data Bender, Right for Beads. As you can see, lots of potential for ambient, generative soundscape design when you can stretch Zadar envelopes over minutes with intricate reverb-soaked crossfading; or variations on full drum beats; or wavefolded melodic line madness, etc.

So it may be something to consider; keeping your most favourite LFO's, and multiplying those signals instead of reaching for 62 separate sources. You can only use so many time divisions before polyrhythmic modulation sounds sloppy. The expressive potential of modulation is in how the attenuverters interact with one another and that can be controlled very well with just a few sources multiplied subtly(!) across many inputs in complex routing schemes.

Make sense? So maybe a few more buffered multiples would be my advice.

Note: If you don't have them already, you'll wanna get Rings, Beads, and Veils ASAP as they have stopped production. If memory serves, Perfect Circuit is the last place that has Veils and Beads for sale. Rings is gonna be tricky to find available in a store, so you might have to swap in a Rings clone instead.

EDITED Nov 6th 2022, 20:58

Switchy Glitchy-Icicle Sound:
— Start with a Boring Sound > Send it to your Buffered Multiple and split it into 2 copies.
— Sound 1 goes into Data Bender and into Veils 1-2.
— Sound 2 goes into Beads (Scorched Cassette mode) and into Veils 3-4.
— Split a single LFO and invert one copy in 321. Send each to Veils 1-2, 3-4. (Split the inverted copy for later)
... Now the sound will rotate between two crunchy variations, call it "Data Blending Grains of Beads". Mix down in Stmix or send to Morph 4 for deeper crossfading with a another source.

None of these need a buffered mult - a passive will be more than adequate

Note: If you don't have them already, you'll wanna get Rings, Beads, and Veils ASAP as they have stopped production. If memory serves, Perfect Circuit is the last place that has Veils and Beads for sale. Rings is gonna be tricky to find available in a store, so you might have to swap in a Rings clone instead.
-- Toccata

ALA appear to be making full size clones - I'd goo with those if you have to go for a clone - there are some reasonably priced used modules available too, if you look hard enough!

@HGsynth,

You say in your layout description you have 'MIDI in the bottom left' but you have the ES-8 which is an Audio Interface, I think. You might be thinking of the FH-2 instead yes? That does MIDI to CV conversion so you can play from external USB devices and your DAW, etc. An interesting alternative to the Transmit 2 output is 4ms' Listen i/o. It's the same 6HP but has two mono inputs and stereo outputs, and both outputs can be used as headphone jacks. I play sounds out of my DAW, iPad, iPhone, acoustic instruments, (using the headphone output on my devices with a 3.5mm stereo-to-split-mono cable) through modular and then record them back into the DAW (with a stereo-3.5mm-to-dual-mono-6.5mm cable) using the line input on my audio interface. (I have it routed properly in my settings so there is no feedback issues). It works!

None of these need a buffered mult - a passive will be more than adequate

Don't worry, it's just an example, haha. He's already got two buffered multiples in the rack, I'm just patching his design. BUT... He listed his need to connect with 'external gear' and be 'a multi-voiced instrument'. So if he is pitch tracking from his DAW or keyboard split four ways by a passive multi into that Quad VCO and the voices sound out of tune—knowing full well he spent 13K on a rack and then cheaped out on passives just to save an extra $30 will make a dreadfully bitter jam to dance to.

That Music Modular Thing Four Big Knobs is a DIY project so you're gonna have to build it yourself or maybe find someone selling it already. If you don't have the soldering stuff you might want something else. I think you should check out Intellijel's Tetrapad as a potential substitute.

Anyways good luck! Hope you find your sound.

EDITED Nov 7th 2022, 13:23

yes - buffered for pitch & possibly triggers/gates if you are re-patching whilst playing - otherwise passives are fine

@Toccata and @JimHowell1970 Thanks so much for the detailed feedback and for thinking through some patching examples for this rig! As you say, finding out something doesn't work as intended after putting so much into this rig would be disappointing, to put it mildly. I hadn't even considered the possibility that I'd could reach a point of diminishing returns concerning the number of LFOs, attenuverters, etc. Planning out a system based on manuals and youtube videos is fun, but definitely misses the experiential aspect that would allow me to really get a feel for how the pieces interact with each other. I really appreciate y'all taking the time to guide us less experienced wigglers through this morass of modules.

You say in your layout description you have 'MIDI in the bottom left' but you have the ES-8 which is an Audio Interface, I think. You might be thinking of the FH-2 instead yes? That does MIDI to CV conversion so you can play from external USB devices and your DAW, etc.

Much appreciated, you're absolutely right. Thanks for catching a silly mistake!