First rack advice needed, I'm overwhelmed.

After weeks of looking up just about every video out there, this is what I've come up with

Yes, I do want to play some sick techno.

Is there anything missing? Do I have too many utility modules? is not having a dedicated VCA something I will deeply regret? Is having only one proper voice going to hold me back? No S&H?

I chose the Metropolix because I really wanted something that I could play as if it were an instrument, does that make sense?

EDITED Oct 30th 2022, 20:37

To get the most out of Metropolix, you'll want two pitched sound sources (i.e. VCOs). I only see the Manis Iteritas. You could use the Disting as a VCO, so that's an option, but you might want to use the Disting for other stuff. My point is, think through how you want to use the two sequencer tracks on the Metropolix. A dual oscillator like Twin Waves pairs really well with it IMO.

Not having a dedicated VCA... yeah seems like a problem. I assume you want to generate envelopes with Quadrax and not just use it for LFOs? How are you going to apply those envelopes? If you drive two VCOs with Metropolix, you'll often want the Metropolix gates to trigger two envelopes that are applied to those voices with a couple VCAs. Manis Iteritas has a built in envelope, so you technically don't need a VCA for it, but you might want to use Quadrax instead sometimes to get different envelope shapes (for example a burst envelope). And if you decide to get a second VCO for Metropolix, it might not have a built in envelope.

I think Steppy is good for drum triggering and will let you sequence up to four drum sounds. I see three dedicated drum modules. You could use the Disting for a fourth drum (via samples using the wave player algorithm) or you could use the Disting to combine two Steppy tracks with logic for more interesting rhythms. So you kind of have that covered but you might consider another dedicated drum sound source, or something more general/modular that could make drum sounds: If you had a source of white noise and a VCA, you can make hat sounds with a fast envelope from Quadrax. It's fun to have some different options like that so you can change things up from patch to patch.

The running theme of all my feedback so far is: Think about the two voices you can control with Metropolix + the four drum sounds with Steppy and plan for how you are going to patch it end-to-end including envelopes and mixing. If you end up with six total sound sources, you need to be able to mix them all together. Personally I'd go for a quad VCA that can mix four signals together and have another dedicated mixer.

A few other thoughts:

• You have a stereo mixer but no real source of stereo except that reverb, so the stereo mixer seems like a bit of a waste in a rack this size. You don't have a way to pan anything in the stereo field (again, the Disting could but you'll probably want it to do other stuff). You might want to focus on mono for now. Or for basic stereo you could get something like a Doepfer A-138s Mini Stereo Mixer and pan your drum sounds to different places in the stereo field.

• If you focus on mono, you can probably ditch that reverb and get a simpler mono reverb

• I like to change up FX, so I'd be looking at a multi-FX module instead of a dedicated reverb. Maybe you love reverb, so do whatever you want there. Dedicated FX modules often have more extensive modulation capabilities so that might be a reason to avoid multi-FX.

• The Golden Master seems like overkill in a rack this size. It has mid-side processing but as I was saying, you can't do a lot of stereo processing in this rack. Unless you really like squashing your sounds, you don't really need a compressor/limiter. And personally I would use filters over EQ in a modular rack, so I would opt for a second filter if it can fit.

• How are you getting audio out of this rack? I think a dedicated output module is a good idea. Technically you can run your final output directly to an external mixer or audio interface, but it will be much louder than the other equipment expects so you need to be really careful about your levels if you don't use a dedicated output module (always start with the volume all the way down!). Read up on this: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/signal/eurorack-line-level

And I'll leave you with the usual advice: If you are planning to fill this whole rack up relatively quickly, you need a bigger rack. Once you've spent time with this rack, you are going to get new ideas and want to expand. Unless you are sticking to a tight budget and are very disciplined, you'll end up running out of space and end up spending even more money (trust me, I know). Of course, a second rack is always an option but I think it ends up costing more in the long run. It's also a good idea to go slow: start with just enough modules to make some sound and slowly add more when you are sure you want the additional features. The Disting is a good way to try things out before you buy dedicated modules.

Rample might be fun instead of BIA and the 2 other 2hp drum modules

Sanity check: for the price of this rack you could get several synths and drum machines

To get the most out of Metropolix, you'll want two pitched sound sources (i.e. VCOs). I only see the Manis Iteritas. You could use the Disting as a VCO, so that's an option, but you might want to use the Disting for other stuff. My point is, think through how you want to use the two sequencer tracks on the Metropolix. A dual oscillator like Twin Waves pairs really well with it IMO.

Not having a dedicated VCA... yeah seems like a problem. I assume you want to generate envelopes with Quadrax and not just use it for LFOs? How are you going to apply those envelopes? If you drive two VCOs with Metropolix, you'll often want the Metropolix gates to trigger two envelopes that are applied to those voices with a couple VCAs. Manis Iteritas has a built in envelope, so you technically don't need a VCA for it, but you might want to use Quadrax instead sometimes to get different envelope shapes (for example a burst envelope). And if you decide to get a second VCO for Metropolix, it might not have a built in envelope.

I think Steppy is good for drum triggering and will let you sequence up to four drum sounds. I see three dedicated drum modules. You could use the Disting for a fourth drum (via samples using the wave player algorithm) or you could use the Disting to combine two Steppy tracks with logic for more interesting rhythms. So you kind of have that covered but you might consider another dedicated drum sound source, or something more general/modular that could make drum sounds: If you had a source of white noise and a VCA, you can make hat sounds with a fast envelope from Quadrax. It's fun to have some different options like that so you can change things up from patch to patch.

The running theme of all my feedback so far is: Think about the two voices you can control with Metropolix + the four drum sounds with Steppy and plan for how you are going to patch it end-to-end including envelopes and mixing. If you end up with six total sound sources, you need to be able to mix them all together. Personally I'd go for a quad VCA that can mix four signals together and have another dedicated mixer.

A few other thoughts:

• You have a stereo mixer but no real source of stereo except that reverb, so the stereo mixer seems like a bit of a waste in a rack this size. You don't have a way to pan anything in the stereo field (again, the Disting could but you'll probably want it to do other stuff). You might want to focus on mono for now. Or for basic stereo you could get something like a Doepfer A-138s Mini Stereo Mixer and pan your drum sounds to different places in the stereo field.

• If you focus on mono, you can probably ditch that reverb and get a simpler mono reverb

• I like to change up FX, so I'd be looking at a multi-FX module instead of a dedicated reverb. Maybe you love reverb, so do whatever you want there. Dedicated FX modules often have more extensive modulation capabilities so that might be a reason to avoid multi-FX.

• The Golden Master seems like overkill in a rack this size. It has mid-side processing but as I was saying, you can't do a lot of stereo processing in this rack. Unless you really like squashing your sounds, you don't really need a compressor/limiter. And personally I would use filters over EQ in a modular rack, so I would opt for a second filter if it can fit.

• How are you getting audio out of this rack? I think a dedicated output module is a good idea. Technically you can run your final output directly to an external mixer or audio interface, but it will be much louder than the other equipment expects so you need to be really careful about your levels if you don't use a dedicated output module (always start with the volume all the way down!). Read up on this: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/signal/eurorack-line-level

And I'll leave you with the usual advice: If you are planning to fill this whole rack up relatively quickly, you need a bigger rack. Once you've spent time with this rack, you are going to get new ideas and want to expand. Unless you are sticking to a tight budget and are very disciplined, you'll end up running out of space and end up spending even more money (trust me, I know). Of course, a second rack is always an option but I think it ends up costing more in the long run. It's also a good idea to go slow: start with just enough modules to make some sound and slowly add more when you are sure you want the additional features. The Disting is a good way to try things out before you buy dedicated modules.

-- adamj

Adam, thank you so much for that detailed analysis. It has brought me much insight with respect to what should I ask myself in order to optimise it. I will also go for the 7U performance case as well.

I noticed that you seem to have quite a lot of experience with the Disting. I often see o_C being mentioned as having a similar use case, how do both of them compare? Is it worth considering the 4Robots plum audio module over the golden master, and get the intellijel line out?

After weeks of looking up just about every video out there, this is what I've come up with

Yes, I do want to play some sick techno.

Is there anything missing? Do I have too many utility modules? is not having a dedicated VCA something I will deeply regret? Is having only one proper voice going to hold me back? No S&H?

I chose the Metropolix because I really wanted something that I could play as if it were an instrument, does that make sense?
-- ruciferno
Hi,
I'm also a beginner, and at first I thought that with a 3u case I had enough, luckily I paid attention to the messages on the forum and started with a 6U and it's already filling up.....I think it's the minimum for this kind of setups is a 6U or 7U case.

I noticed that you seem to have quite a lot of experience with the Disting. I often see o_C being mentioned as having a similar use case, how do both of them compare?

In some ways the Disting and O_C are pretty similar in that they have a bunch of different algorithms for all sorts of different use cases. And yet, they are pretty different...

For one thing, the O_C's processor isn't as powerful as the Disting, so it generally doesn't handle audio signals well. It can do some audio, but it's fairly lo-fi (the audio is downsampled). For example there's a lo-fi tape delay effect in one of the firmwares but it "at a sampling rate of 2kHz for about one second. Incoming signals are down sampled to 8 bits of resolution." That might be what you want sometimes, but it's definitely not a "go to" delay. The Disting on the other hand handles audio no problem and can do higher quality effects, VCOs, and sample playback.

AFAIK most O_Cs can only output a specific 10V range, so to be able to do bipolar CVs (like LFOs) as well as unipolar (like envelopes) they had to compromise and at the hardware level set the total output range to something like -3V to 6V. Often LFOs are -5V to 5V and envelopes 0V to 8V-10V. So you never get as "deep" a modulation as you can typically get from other modulation sources. Typically this isn't a problem but I have noticed using it as an envelope tends to lead to quieter sounds and then you have to mix appropriately or use an amplifier.

To address that -3V to 6V limit, Plum Audio made an O_C with variable output range (VOR) that switches on-the-fly between -5V - 5V and 0V - 10V in the firmware depending on the algorithm, which makes it behave like a traditional CV source. I don't own one of these but it's a nice selling point so I'd definitely consider the VOR version of the module. However, not all firmware supports VOR (yet) so that's something you need to be aware of if you are trying out different firmwares.

The O_C is also open source and people have made various forks of the firmware, which has been fun to experiment with. I currently really like the Benispheres firmware. It's got a good selection of algorithms and they are all pretty straightforward and intuitive to use, generally without consulting the manual. The stock firmware is fairly complicated though, so expect to spend a lot of time looking at the manual and scratching your head, but there's some gems in there too so it's worth a try at some point. If you are into software development, you could even make your own fork of the firmware and make the O_C do something new.

With the Disting, you've got the slimmer mk4 version and the EX. I started with the mk4 and I don't regret it. I get a lot of mileage out of it but I have to say the mk4 is a pain to use. It's so much functionality squished into a small space with only one encoder and a rotary knob. The UI is basically a big compromise with tons of pressing and turning to dial in each parameter one by one. It's time consuming and tedious. Every patch I try to decide on the one thing it's going to do and set it up in the beginning so I don't have to worry about it mid-patching. Menu-diving into the disting mid-patch isn't much fun.

The EX is definitely a lot better in the usability regard with the nice screen and more knobs, but with both models there's so many algorithms and they all have so many features it's practically impossible to use without the manual right next to you. Eventually you find a few algorithms you really like and I remember enough of how they work I don't have to consult the manual for those anymore, but it was a big learning curve. Between the need to consult the manual a lot and the menu-diving, I can see why some people don't like the Disting. But for me it's been really great to try out new ideas and learn more about what you can do with modular.

The Distings are a closed platform though, so only Expert Sleepers (AFAIK) ever releases firmware for it. But it can do so much, especially the EX, so I don't really care.

So in summary:

O_C is focused on CV and not so good for audio. The CV output range is somewhat limited unless you get a VOR version. The Hemispheres-based firmwares are easy to use and you typically don't need a manual, so it's quick to dial in settings and "play" it on the fly. The stock firmware is interesting but suffers from the same sort of usability problems as the Disting.

The Distings are great with both CV and audio. The algorithms cover more territory (especially the EX which really does have an incredible amount of powerful functionality), but it is a lot harder to use (the manual is practically required) and not very hands-on the in the middle of a patch.

Honestly I recommend both and I probably won't ever sell off any of mine, but you probably should start with one and take it from there. Hopefully this info helps make a decision.

Is it worth considering the 4Robots plum audio module over the golden master, and get the intellijel line out?

Getting the 4Robots O_C (which has VOR) instead of the Golden Master seems reasonable if the O_C sounds like a good fit for you.

If you're getting an Intellijel performance case, I think it's really nice to get one of their 1U output modules and connect it directly to the jacks on the case so you use those for output. Note the Headphones 1U module does not connect to the case's output. You need to Stereo Line Out 1U or Stereo Mixer 1U (and I remember seeing in the manual you need a second-generation case or something, but unless you are buying older used equipment, I doubt you need to worry about that).

-- double post --

EDITED Oct 31st 2022, 20:26

Honestly, I wouldn't go spending until you've learned more. My recommedation would be to dive into VCV. My first module was an Expert Sleepers ES9 because it immediately opened up my physical rack with VCV and allowed to immediately supplement actual modules with absolutely anything I want in modular. It help me learn so much and helped my figure out what I actually need. My first Modulargrid is very very different from the last one I made!

Re: Disting EX. This is by far the best multiple purpose module out there. If you get an Expert Sleepers Mini Midi Breakout (2HP), you can then use something like a WIDI Jack to make it controllable by MIDI - then you can download an OSC Touch template and control the EX from an iPad - it is amazing to use it this way!
https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=257083
-- Manbearpignick

EDITED Oct 31st 2022, 20:27

I agree with Manbearpignick and Adam. I think educating oneself is critical, especially when one can drop thousands on modules and then discover they're not the right ones. Know the sound you're trying to get, then learn how to get that sound, rather than just buying whatever modules you see someone else is using (not that you're doing that ) and then hoping it'll all come together (which it very well might).

+1 on the ES-9 and using VCV. I think VCV is probably the single most valuable educational tool there is right now.

To answer your VCA question in a word: yes. "You can never have enough VCAs" is a modular synth catch-phrase for a reason. You will use VCAs for literally controlling everything. You will also need a good way to get audio out, and a VCA can certainly be used for that. The Tallin is one example of a good multi-purpose VCA/mixer. And, as Adam pointed out, I'd recommend limiting your output to mono and save the capital spent on stereo circuitry for other bits.

I always go back to the basics whenever I find myself asking a lot of questions about something, no matter what it is. With modular, that means going back to the tried-and-true building blocks of all (subtractive) synthesis: at least one VCO, then a VCF, EG and VCA(s), more or less in that order. Repeat that group again. To get the techno you're after, I'd recommend at least two VCOs (I only see one, the Mantis). I suppose you could use the Disting as a VCO, but then you'd be sacrificing all the effects that critter has under the hood (watch out for running too hot a signal into the Disting...it clips a bit too easily for my tastes and can sound a bit crunchy).

Look at Erica Synths Pico modules for drums. Good stuff there.

The techo tweak happens from time to time by running your signals fat and then sweeping them into a tight little spiral using a good filter. By "good" I mean that you don't want to lose fidelity just to sweep something into a high-pass shape. I have found that the Xaoc Belgrad is a great filter with a huge number of shaping possibilities that also has excellent signal integrity. The Polaris, which you have, is an excellent filter also. Patch any of that that back into your VCOs to get some really interesting FM possibilities.

Maybe the overarching point here is that the sound you're probably after could be created using a far simpler set of modules than what I see in this rack. You def need to start with a sequencer of some kind and/or a beat machine. The rest is just riffing monophonic notes from several VCOs and tweaking the juice out of them with some wide ranging filters. Keep in mind that the Polaris also has some cool phasing ability, so if you used an envelope follower to bring that back into a (aforementioned missing) second VCO, you could get so sick you'd end up in the hospital with a gaggle of goth babes losing their minds in the waiting room.

EDITED Oct 31st 2022, 23:36

Yeah, educating yourself with VCV Rack for a while is a really good idea if you haven't done so already. If you find VCV Rack to be a bit overwhelming with all the module options and wide range of usability/quality (which is actually fairly representative of reality in terms of choice overload, so its good practice), I'd recommend AAS Multiphonics CV-1 as a great way for a beginner to learn the basics. It costs money but I think it goes on sale for $49 from time to time, probably for Black Friday or Christmas. It might seem overly simplistic but you can do a lot with, for example, chaining multiple sequencers together. Take the time to learn every module deeply and once you are comfortable with them and pushing against their limitations, you can graduate to VCV Rack and start exploring all that it has to offer. Or just jump into VCV and stick with the core modules at first.