Modular systems and electricity risks for patients with ICD

Hello,
I’m a big fan of synths and musical equipment, and I’ve always been fascinated by eurorack and modular world in general. Unfortunately I have an ICD (implanted cardioverter defibrillator) since three years, and I’m a little afraid to handle patch cables carrying electricity, even with low voltage and amperage.

My physician say that the risk of interferences with my device handling modular gear should be very low in presence of DC current compared to AC, so the main risk is due to AC leakage current.

So the questions are: there is a way to eliminate this risk of AC leakage currents? There are some recommendations to make an adequate power grounding to avoid any current on external case or panel of modules? It would be better to use a wooden case or an external power supply in example?

It would be nice if someone with my same situation (ICD or Pacemakers), who uses modulars, could share his experience.
Thanks
P.

EDITED Mar 10th 2023, 20:28

Hello Picadura,

I have no experience with ICD or pacemakers however I have some experience with Eurorack and electricity in common. Here some food for thought that hopefully might help you:

• Use good quality and thick patch cables --> thought behind this is if you use thicker patch cables risk of AC leakage currents should be lower or even eliminated and good quality should make sure that you will not have patch cables that easily wears of, especially at the connections between the cables and plugs however even a low quality cable the mantle of the cable might just come off as I had with another (non-patch and non-Eurorack) cable.
• Make sure you leave no open spaces left in your Eurorack system, meaning you should use blind panels. So nothing unexpected can happen for those "open" spots in your Eurorack --> many blind panels are made of aluminium that is not so good for your case since that might short cut electricity in one or another way. Consider for example blind panels that are made of PCB material like those from Make Noise
• Easier said then done: Use as less as possible metals in your rack. Depending on how far you would like to extend this you could consider not to take modules with metal panels, which is the majority I am afraid. However there are brands that use wooden panels (like Bastl Instruments, L.E.P.) or panels made of PCB material (like Make Noise, Mordax). I am not sure about Centrevillage.net what material they use for the front panels, might not be metal. There was one other brand that doesn't want to come to my mind who use some special non-metal material, so sorry that I forgot that brand. If I remember I will later add it here. There might be more brands around that use non-metal-panels. On the other hand... yes aluminium is a metal and yes it conducts electricity but it isn't the best conductor, so perhaps aluminium panels are still acceptable for you?
• Again depending on how important this is for you and how far you want to take this, you could take your Eurorack to a lab where they can measure the "electricity leakages" --> perhaps that's the best to start with before putting enormous energy in improving everything and perhaps its all not necessary? So having it tested by a (professional) lab might be the first step to check if anything further is needed at all?

My guts feelings says, without having here any proof to underwrite this, that I tend to agree with the physician you checked with and since these are low voltages the risks should be very limited (especially if you keep a good distance, perhaps to be checked with a professional, what that distance would be? 10 cm or 25 cm or?), otherwise other pacemaker users would have serious other problems in our nowadays daily lives. Almost everywhere in the households and at work we are using tons of (electric) devices. As long as those devices are either using low voltages and/or shielding it off, the risks should be very limited. Of course, please have this checked by an expert specialised on ICD & Pacemakers.

Take care, I hope you still can enjoy modular and kind regards, Garfield.

I have an ICD/pacemaker implant and have not really considered that any of my music gear posed any sort of risk. If you are that concerned, I would recommend contacting the manufacturer of your implant to ask if they are aware of any risk. My wife and I have been considering getting an induction cook top, which works by generating a magnetic field that could interfere with a pacemaker. When I asked my doctors about it, I got a lot of conflicting answers. So, I emailed the manufacturer of my implant and actually got a phone call response by a very knowledgable person who was very happy to explain all the concerns and answer all my questions.

HI, thanks for the replies!
Garfield, I will certainly use good quality cables and blind panels (made of plexiglass or 3mm plywood) to fill the gaps between modules. Thanks for the tips. About front panels alternatives to metal, I think the companies you mentioned make some great products (i.e Ciat-Lombarde is specialized in making very strange and particular synths, all made of wood), but this products represents a very small, and not significative, part of the eurorack modules system IMHO.

I Agree with your considerations about the interactions that we experiments every day with devices carrying current: I want to keep away from paranoia, I would so operate in the safest way possible so, if anyone knows a way to do this, I'd really like to know details.

I have an ICD/pacemaker implant and have not really considered that any of my music gear posed any sort of risk. If you are that concerned, I would recommend contacting the manufacturer of your implant to ask if they are aware of any risk.
-- moosapotamus
I'm very happy to know that there are peoples in my same situation that not consider risky to handle modular gear. Maybe I'm the problem :D . Yes, I sent an email to the manufacturer of my implant and the answer was "low risks but control the AC leaks issues". May I ask if you ever got shocks from handling your modulars in the past or tingling or pinching? Thanks.

Howdy everyone, new user here.
I do not have any specific knowledge of pacemakers but I do have electrical engineering experience. In my opinion the risk of harm from things like AC leakage, RF or magnetic interference, etc, from Modular is extremely low compared to the average home appliance. AC leakage, when present, is a percentage of the working voltage of a circuit. The voltages in modular are very low, no more than 15 volts and commonly only +/- 5V. So even if there were some leakage the amount of voltage to start with is so low that I doubt there would be an appreciable risk. You being around something as mundane as the 120V AC wiring in the walls or an extension cord exposes you to stronger magnetic fields than a modular rack running on 12V DC and pushing tiny audio signals around. People play electric guitars with pacemakers, and that involves holding the strings and the pickups right next to your chest while you touch the metal strings and that is generally regarded as safe.

The best way to reduce the risk of any sort of leakage current would be to use a metal case and make sure the case is grounded. The location of the power supply (internal or external) shouldn't matter so long as it is properly grounded. And as a general rule, don't cheap out on the power supply.

The one exception you might want to be careful about are modules involving tubes. Some tubes involve quite high voltages, sometimes a few hundred volts, and that is obviously a greater risk.

So even if there were some leakage the amount of voltage to start with is so low that I doubt there would be an appreciable risk.

So, if I understood correctly, through a power supply it is not possible that the AC current arrives inside the case?

The best way to reduce the risk of any sort of leakage current would be to use a metal case and make sure the case is grounded. The location of the power supply (internal or external) shouldn't matter so long as it is properly grounded. And as a general rule, don't cheap out on the power supply.

There is a good centralized and certified grounding system in the building where I live

The one exception you might want to be careful about are modules involving tubes. Some tubes involve quite high voltages, sometimes a few hundred volts, and that is obviously a greater risk.

For sure, tubes are more dangerous, but I don't plan to buy modules with tubes insides

Thanks Replicant!

So, if I understood correctly, through a power supply it is not possible that the AC current arrives inside the case?

most cases are DC powered - similar to a laptop - in fact some power supplies actually use laptop bricks for converting AC mains power to DC +/- 12v and +5v

some such as doepfer are mains AC powered (using a 'kettle lead' for example - like a lot of synthesizers)

a few use AC converters to supply 12-15v AC (most likely with eurorack 12v to an internal power supply which will convert to +/-12v and possibly 5v) - as far as I know the only ones that do this are some Frequenct Central supplies)

For sure, tubes are more dangerous, but I don't plan to buy modules with tubes insides

usually the tubes won't be on the inside, they'll be on the outside - to show off... not many modules use regular tubes though! I suspect the newer korg nano-tubes are less dangerous - but probably better safe than sorry!

most cases are DC powered - similar to a laptop - in fact some power supplies actually use laptop bricks for converting AC mains power to DC +/- 12v and +5v

Hi JimHowell1970, thanks for the reply. Can you indicates some brands that uses this kind of power supply ? I'm interested in 4ms, intellijel, arturia rack brute, in particular, what's about this manufacturers ? Thanks

EDITED Mar 28th 2023, 12:21

doepfer PSU3 is mains AC

Frequency Central is mostly 12v AC - I think their new one is DC

Most others using wall or rug warts will be DC - Arturia, 4ms, befaco, tiptop etc

if it's not stated in the manual, ask the manufacturer - most have support email addresses listed on their web sites... if they don't respond, then don't buy from them

So, if I understood correctly, through a power supply it is not possible that the AC current arrives inside the case?

There are two ways that could possibly happen.
First would be some kind of catastrophic failure of the power supply which resulted in AC short-circuiting to the case. This is highly unlikely but it is theoretically possible. The best protection against this kind of failure is good grounding. It is also worth pointing out that this kind of failure is a risk with any electronic device so it's probably not something that would keep you away from modular.

Second is what is generally meant by the term "leakage current". Basically this refers to very small amounts of electricity passing through insulation, and it is a very tiny % of the working voltage of the circuit. This is what I was referring to in my earlier post. Because Modular signals are very low voltage whatever tiny % of leakage may occur is probably not worth worrying about.

There is a good centralized and certified grounding system in the building where I live

That is good to hear. But when I wrote that "Good grounding" is important I don't mean just the building, I meant how the rack is put together. Ideally you'd have a metal rack, the rack itself should be wired to ground, and you'd make sure to tighten all the screws holding your modules in. Sometimes I see people online that have just rested modules inside a rack without any screws, or maybe they're just using one screw per module. That's not good practice, the metal front panel of the modules should have firm contact with the grounded rack. That is critical for safety, if there were any stray voltages present you want them going to ground through the case, not being present where you might touch a knob or grab a patch cable. If you are building a wooden case with metal rails to make your rack then run a ground wire to each rail.

Like JimHowell1970 wrote, most Modular racks use the same kind of power supplies as a computer, sometimes this is a literal laptop power supply "brick" wired externally, other times it is a similar power supply mounted inside the rack itself. But either way the power supply has the same basic function: it takes in AC mains and converts it to the lower voltages (+/-12V, 5V) used by the modules.

EDITED Mar 29th 2023, 13:43

Replicant, the connection to ground of metal case is necessary also in presence of a thermal magnetic circuit breakers ? I live in Italy and my apartment has both protection systems (grounding and this device). Thanks.

Replicant, the connection to ground of metal case is necessary also in presence of a thermal magnetic circuit breakers ? I live in Italy and my apartment has both protection systems (grounding and this device). Thanks.

-- picadura

Yes. You can think of "ground" as a chain: it is only as strong as its weakest link.

Can't answer about the risks, however its not even about possible leakage, if you touch a patch cable - not the cable, the contact - you can definitely feel it - those 5-10 volts seem to be enough.
Was kind of surprised/startled when it accidently happened while patching.
Ask your doctor or maker of the device.

Thanks znort101, in effect, 10v is a value that can create some annoying problems, in particular touching the terminals with wet (or sweaty) hands. I think it's quite common to get a little electrical shock handling the patch cables. But it's very different than main dangerous leakage current.

My physicians says that this range not create particular problems, but is better to avoid this risk taking care in handling patch cables. It is more dangerous the exposition to magnetic field or stay too close to wireless equipment.

Or touch the metal body of the car on a dry and windy day.