Modulation source for complementing Pamela's New Workout

Hi,
I'm new in modular, almost finish my case with sources of sound, sequencer, vca/mixer, some modulation, but I keep some place to modulation between 8 and 10 hp. I would like complement my PNW and Function. I saw as true option on micro temps utile, micro ornament & crime or XAOC Zadar. What do you choose from those ? Do you have another option?
Thanks!

EDITED Sep 13th 2020, 00:22

show us your rack - what you alrerady have will help determine better what you should add

Hi Jim,
my actual rack is this

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1154618.jpg

The place available I would like to add a modulation source, a multi... and maybe if it's possible a kind of utility module like kinks. But I guess the modulation is more prioritaire...

Thanks

I am guessing Jim will likely tell you you don't have enough utilities, which I'd agree with.

What I'd suggest, in order of importance:
1) Upgrade the Function to a Maths
2) Add either a Batumi or a Zadar, depending on your end priority here of modulation (Batumi) or expression (Zadar)
3) Add a Doepfer A-118-2 for your Clouds (and for #2, keep in mind that this needs a square cutoff to trigger)
4) Add a Kinks
5) Add an Ochd

To do all that you'd have to cut a module or two (downgrading a Veils for a smaller mixer is one idea to make space) but I think you'll get more out of what you leave in the case.

Thanks a lot for tips troux.

5) Add an Ochd
I've considered a lot ochd, it's great to have 8 lfo on 4 hp, but I always wonder how useful could be it, considering all lfo are unsynced and it isn't capable to sync with a external clock, or maybe I miss something? Anyway I guess it was always in scope, just I've hope to find something more handy.

4) Add a Kinks
Yeah, you make me to validate :).

3) Add a Doepfer A-118-2 for your Clouds (and for #2, keep in mind that this needs a square cutoff to trigger)
Interesting... but adding this is worth it , considering you could generate differents waves on PNW (including random)?

2) Add either a Batumi or a Zadar, depending on your end priority here of modulation (Batumi) or expression (Zadar)
I think my priority is expression, but I'm afraid I haven't got enough modulation... maybe if I add an Ochd I'll get enough?

1) Upgrade the Function to a Maths
I'm not sure with this, function it's enough complex for me to keep it a while, upgrade to maths make me a bit scare. Sure maybe in a future when I feel more comfortable. For now, I try to learn and discover.

EDITED Sep 13th 2020, 16:31

@nokulture, I think you'll find if you try a Maths out that it's super intuitive and solves so many problems, especially in a rack this size. That said, we're all on our own journey, do what makes sense to you and let us know how it goes!

I'd add an AISynthesis matrix mixer and kinks - multing your modulation to these will add more much variety than either zadar or batumi

looks like you'd have 2hp left for a 2hp trim module or a dreadbox div

I agree about maths - it is way more than the sum of it's parts - check out the illustrated manual online for (self) patch ideas

another option would be to buy another case now instead of a module - that way you don't have the I only have xhp left itch - hehehe

EDITED Sep 13th 2020, 18:51

The AI Synthesis matrix mixer is on my list for my second rack. Kinks arrives this week. I also should receive the Intellijel Quadrax with expander for maths type stuff this week. Since I already have Batumi in one rack, for second build went with IME Kermit MK3 which has 4 channels of LFO and EG goodness and ability to create presets as well.

It seems a big consensus about kinks :)

yeah - it's small, inexpensive, has 3 functions - if you have stackcables or enough mults, you can patch it to get 7 different, but related modulation outputs from a single modulation source

it's similar with matrix mixers - put mult x modulation sources in get x more related modulation outputs

once you've got a few modulation sources - things like these and cascading vcas, switches etc are generally less expensive for getting more out of them than getting more modulation sources and will lead to more interesting modulation -that's not to say never get any more modulation sources - it's more: there are other ways, as there almost always are in modular

Well, finally, I've decided add ochd, kinks and Zadar. I'll keep function for the moment, and the others modules. The result rack will look like:

Ochd and kinks had arrived, and in first test I've noted it was a good choice, because I'll free so much outputs from PNW's, and now I could modulate almost all parameters on elements, and keep outputs from Pamela's for the others modules. I guess when Zadar arrive it will be even better.

Thanks you so much for the tips, they are so helpful.

EDITED Sep 21st 2020, 11:33

Nice! I really like the Kinks and Links combo as they are super handy in more complex patching.

@nokulture how's it going here? Do you like the new setup?

@nokulture how's it going here? Do you like the new setup?
-- troux

Yeah, zadar is great and kinks so handy, I'm so happy with both. Otherwise, I don't be sure with Ochd, because I miss a bit of control with it. Sometimes Ochd is great if you don't care the expression of modulations, for example when you search random stuff. But other times if you'd like a bit expression is little bit annoying. It helps a lot I have available attenuverters in most of my source modules.

Anyway, I guess is the best choice to get plenty modulation in 4hp. So I'll keep for the moment for testing a little more while I find another option.

EDITED Oct 4th 2020, 20:21

Personally, attenuators (and offsets) are the most underrated tools in Eurorack, I'm always happy when an oscillator or filter has them built in (big ups to Random Source for example). Re: Ochd, I believe it was @GarfieldModular who said if Batumi's a scientist, Ochd's a hippy. I definitely run mine through my o/a/x2 a lot, but you could also running several of its outs through Links to bring it down a bit and get more subtle variations.

Anyway, glad you are liking the new modules, post some tunes soon!

I need another attenuator/offset in my second rack and need to look into ALM Busy Circuits 0/a/x2 that would match Pamela and Boss Bow Two for a good tool support pairing to get clocking, switching and tools. I have the SBG which works great with guitar FX pedals and ALM support is responsive when I had issues.

It's a nice little module @sacguy71, also 321 by Frap Tools is nice, but hard to get their stuff right now!

Agree on Frap Tools stuff very hard to come by right now as you mentioned. There appears to be a shortage for a lot of modular stuff like cases right now. I read about a Make Noise shortage as well since the Black & Gold Shared system is not available yet and that would be a fun modular system to have since most of the modules in it like Maths and Rene are solid and the case awesome as well.

Hi all, interesting discussion. I have built my own first rack recently as well, and I am now in the same exact situation, I am looking for more modulation sources. My choice is stages, why this module wasn’t part of your recommandation?

@volpinovulcano I haven't used stages so I can't say, but I hear great stuff about it. I'd love to hear about it if you think it's working for you.

@volpinovulcano I haven't used stages so I can't say, but I hear great stuff about it. I'd love to hear about it if you think it's working for you.
-- troux
I will receive it and will keep you posted. This is the rack I have now:

waiting for Stages. I was in the same situation looking for more modulation (having some modules that require a lot of modulation to express their full potential as the basimilus or Qpas. Of course I explored Batumi, Oachd...but I explored tides and stages as well. I already have math that I really like for modulation.
I think tide is a very powerful modulation source ( keep it in my wish list for modulation of the rhythmical session) but I wanted to have more control, and stages offer multiple possibilities (using it as ad, adsr, multiple lfo...).
I will keep you posted.

Please don't hesitate if you have any other ideas...

stages is great - a very useful module

one strategy for making modulation more interesting and to go further, which is generally less expensive than buying lots of modulation sources is to add more utilities

for example a matrix mixer would be a good idea - so you can, for example, mix 2 decay envelopes from stages with 2 outputs from Maths

1) Upgrade the Function to a Maths
I'm not sure with this, function it's enough complex for me to keep it a while, upgrade to maths make me a bit scare. Sure maybe in a future when I feel more comfortable. For now, I try to learn and discover.
-- nokulture

I had the same feeling about Maths, but this tutorial completely changed my mind:

I had the same feeling about Maths, but this tutorial completely changed my mind:
-- TheMM

Yeah, I've watched the video several times, but honestly I don't sure I'd use a quarter of all functionalities, and that quarter I could cover with other modules. Maybe, I've said yet, it's just my inexperience... probably I'll test in future.

Anyway, glad you are liking the new modules, post some tunes soon!
-- troux

Well, maybe it isn't representative of all modules in my system, but I've made a video of some kind deep/ethnique techno and jamming around Eyesy from C&G for visuals

And yeah, I can't resist switch my old veils for the new ones:

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1250896.jpg

Ace. I am using Kinks/Links a lot now in my second rack. Probably add a matrix mixer, sequential switch, another attenuator/offset like MI Shades, logic module like Intellijel Plog as well as one more voice plus more modulation source and an FX module. Splitting and re-combining 1-2 oscillators and submixing is very powerful.

Here is how I used Kinks/Links recently: