Exactly...when you're dealing with an instrument that works on discrete note-on/note-off behavior, then the point of actual discrete polyphony enters into things. A good parallel in guitar would be the various complex picking styles of Doc Watson, or the techniques found in a lot of classical guitar repertoire, flamenco/Andalucian style music, etc. Paraphony is more akin to strumming chords and the like, where a single attack occurs more or less simultaneously for all notes, and the result is more of a single sound without internal attacks, modulation characteristics, etc on single notes within the chord.
Yuppers...Joe knows how a serious, hardcore factory-built system should be put together, to be sure!
And yes, you can get the CV Bus in the 7U case. Besides, with many of these companies, it's not like you're dealing with a bunch of suits...they're usually run by musicians just like us, on budgets that're often just like us as well. If there's something that you've got to have, then just ask 'em and see what they say. Most of the time, you'll find Eurorack builders to be a very approachable lot, and certainly not a bunch of restrictive asshats who only cater to the ultra-rich. They're in this to please users and get their gear into peoples' hands, and often enough, flexibility is the name of the game for these companies.
Hello everyone, would like to see anyone can critique my rack, and what else to add? I already bought the modules so they’ll be on their way. I’ll be triggering the manis with the Analog 4 and Loquelic for drones.
What's really the difference sound wise to create a paraphonic synth by running multiple VCO's all into the same VCF, VCA, EG versus "true" polyphony?
-- goodbyebluesky82If you want a setting for each note, like a filter sweep, there is a huge difference. In polyphony you get a sweep for each note, in no way affected by the trigger of a new note. In paraphony the sweep of the first not will restart when you trigger a new note.
-- sislte
I'm primarily a guitarist / drummer who started dabbling in synth, not a keyboard player, and therefore play very basic things, so that didn't occur to me but makes sense now. For very simple chords / pads, I still don't think it would be an issue, but I could see that being a problem for bigger chords / pads where you are adding and releasing notes while keeping some notes sustained simultaneously.
I would still buy a full MN CV bus system if I had the spare cash to burn as I have enjoyed my 0-coast quite a bit and NIN synth master Alessandro Cortini uses one on his music along with Buchla and Verbos and Elektrons.
At least you can buy a MN 6+1Ux104 case with the CV Bus in it. Saves you selling all those modules at a loss you didn't mean to get in the first place. That's possibly a worthwhile option if you plan to use the René sequencer that is not working properly with many non-MN PSUs.
-- wiggler55550
oh yes - you are right... thank you... at least that :) ...
At least you can buy a MN 6+1Ux104 case with the CV Bus in it. Saves you selling all those modules at a loss you didn't mean to get in the first place. That's possibly a worthwhile option if you plan to use the René sequencer that is not working properly with many non-MN PSUs.
What's really the difference sound wise to create a paraphonic synth by running multiple VCO's all into the same VCF, VCA, EG versus "true" polyphony?
-- goodbyebluesky82
If you want a setting for each note, like a filter sweep, there is a huge difference. In polyphony you get a sweep for each note, in no way affected by the trigger of a new note. In paraphony the sweep of the first note will restart when you trigger a new note.
-> It hasn't gone anywhere, really. The idea of having all modules from the same maker goes back to the beginnings of synthesizers, when you had to rely on full systems from a manufacturer. The difference now is that all of these different full systems can 'talk' to each other plainly, whereas before you had all sorts of different CV and gate/trig standards that weren't always compatible. Full systems give users the ability to use that older paradigm...but they work just like any other modular in that they speak the same CV/gate 'language' and, if you desired, you could pull one of the full system's modules and drop something of your own preference in. That's the point of modular.
-- Lugia
I did not mean that and I get your point - but if you want this CV bus for instance you won't get it - "sorry we sell it just in our completes - thank you for your understanding" - if you like to buy a optomix or erbe-verb etc. - "sorry we sell it just in our completes - thank you for your understanding" - for the rich and wealthy people who can get that as a one-timer because the can afford...
or every ten years in a special occasion offer - which you can order just directly at their store - so a problem for non-US citizens...
you know what I am saying - I bought a system cartesian - I also bought their 104 skiff and wanted to go slowly (because I ain't no rich) the way in direction to a MN complete system - after checking to get the next MN module in black/gold I made that very nice experience I described above - I should have informed myself before all of that - I know - stupid me :)...
...and yes, at the end it is the FUNctionality and SOUND etc. that counts but also if you like your system in black(/gold) you will just get the silver versions of some of their modules because of their "open minded" strategy - and I know some small companies offering face-plates in black so you can exchange - but you know...
Yea they are taking the same walled closed garden approach of Buchla which I don't like either. If I was gonna spend 5k for a full system from one vendor, it would be Buchla or Serge. They sound amazing and top synth masters use them.
It hasn't gone anywhere, really. The idea of having all modules from the same maker goes back to the beginnings of synthesizers, when you had to rely on full systems from a manufacturer. The difference now is that all of these different full systems can 'talk' to each other plainly, whereas before you had all sorts of different CV and gate/trig standards that weren't always compatible. Full systems give users the ability to use that older paradigm...but they work just like any other modular in that they speak the same CV/gate 'language' and, if you desired, you could pull one of the full system's modules and drop something of your own preference in. That's the point of modular.
Yeah, part of the problem does lie in patching and programming a beast like that. It's pretty daunting. Even a simple poly setup on my Digisound (basically, one VCO into one VCF into one VCA, same individual EG per voice for timbral and amplitude envelope, same LFO per voice for modulation), while it's fairly simple to patch, usually involves quite a bit of tweaking to get the balances and tunings right.
As for the difference, it sort of depends on how the VCF is being used, and how the voicings work. If the polyphony is very tight, and the VCF isn't doing anything really high-Q, it can sound much the same as normal polyphony. But when the VCF settings per voice start to get critical, as in something at near-breakthrough in resonance, then the drawbacks start to become apparent. Also, if the polyphony is spread widely, this too will be noticeable.
Really, this works better in actual polysynths, where everything can be under microprocessor control, and where everything is all chip-based. That way, the hardware costs get minimized, programming is less of a pain, and everything behaves more tractably. An example of one polysynth where this doesn't exactly happen is in the SEM-based Oberheims, where you technically have several individual synths under one master programmer's control, and once again, you can quickly find yourself in knob-tweaking hell trying to get the several SEMs to match up exactly. There are ways around that, though, but the SEM Oberheim polys are such an esoteric thing that that example's almost moot (even though Oberheim reissued them in recent years).
What's really the difference sound wise to create a paraphonic synth by running multiple VCO's all into the same VCF, VCA, EG versus "true" polyphony though? With some affordable VCO/DCOs and a MIDI to CV converter capable of routing the various CV inputs to the VCO/DCOs; it seems very doable in modular, especially compared to the massive rigs with expensive digital modules people put together without complaining too much of the cost and complex patching.
I would think tuning / calibrating it might be a pain, kind of akin to playing that guitar you keep lying around but can never quite get in tune with itself 100%.
As can be read in this thread @Drazen is not accepting responsibility for his forgoing of mentioning problems with customs. He also does not react to messages of me requesting a full refund as I really don't feel like paying the customs office for his "mistake" of not mentioning that the Stuff he marks as EU come from outside the EU. As I said: "Full refund" + letting the package bounce from Austria back to Quatar would be totally fine for me but he wont react. I feel like this might be systematical. On the other hand I am sad that Quatar is not part of a customs union and it must be VERY hard to get modules there. But for everybody it would be soo much fairer to be transparent about the situation. @Drazen, if you read this: there is still time (they keep my package until the 10th) to step up and refund either partially or fully.
Sad - this is kind of my first not so good experience out of about 20 transactions on the marketplace...-- Stevelate
So sorry to read that another person had the same unpleasant experience with @Drazen as i. -I only wish you had read my warnings about him in the first place so be cautious. In my case he never replied back, instead he left pass 20+ days of silence and then came up with the 8-year-oldish answer you have quoted... (though it was ridiculous, replied it)
The thing is that after my initial complaints here, he really had the choice from now on to inform the buyer via PM during transaction settlements on his intentions to send any module from a place outside customs union, but he take no such action. So it's clearly now that he's definitely doing it on misleading purpose and, yes, systematically...
@modulargrid we have an ongoing situation here.
why isn't make noise selling the cv bus without their system?
-- ghee hgt
Because it is their marketing “strategy” - some things you just get exclusively when you buy a whole expensive though wonderful system - just wealthy people can afford - think of their modules no black/gold available also just exclusively with their systems - I hate that idea because it exclude others who cannot afford it - where did the idea of modular go?
Very good deal and fast shipping by @mindmachines33 !
The HP information is included in the info of each module. It's probably the only value that you cannot escape using when adding a new module.
You can see it underneath the blah blah included in most modules. It's located below the power info (if available), as a tag.
Additionaly, it is included when looking at the modules using the Module Finder.
Last, but not least, you can find it when using the Popover option and while you hover your mouse over a module.
-- ParanormalPatroler
Oh it's as a tag, saw it. Always thought it is written altogether with the current and module depth values. Big thanks!
The HP information is included in the info of each module. It's probably the only value that you cannot escape using when adding a new module.
You can see it underneath the blah blah included in most modules. It's located below the power info (if available), as a tag.
Additionaly, it is included when looking at the modules using the Module Finder.
Last, but not least, you can find it when using the Popover option and while you hover your mouse over a module.
Not sure what you mean by #1. You want the total HP of the modules? It's on the Data Sheet link underneath your rack.
No, I meant when you click inside to see the details page of a module there is no where showing its hp value. I know it can be seen when you search or seeing the data sheet but it makes no sense not seeing it inside the details page.
Not sure what you mean by #1. You want the total HP of the modules? It's on the Data Sheet link underneath your rack.
No comment on #2
I disagree with #3. The modules that do that are too few to warrant extra functionality. It's easy to cover for them with a custom module.
Sorry about that! I have revised the photos and they should look proportionally correct now.
Is it possible to:
1. add the hp value showing in the details of each module
2. when selling modules the location options are a bit limited, at least there is only Japan for Asia. I believe there are also other sellers what to sell modules from other Asian countries.
3. There might have some modules that have capability to switch power supply between +12V and +5V which gives different mA values (such as Qubit Nebulae v2) it can be shown in the details of the modules.
Cheers!
See also https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/3391
Beep, Bopp, Bleep: info@modulargrid.net
And btw. ModularGrid supports PNGs with transparency, so there is no need to add white lines as top/bottom borders.
Beep, Bopp, Bleep: info@modulargrid.net
Regardless of their name 1U tiles don't necessarily share the same height. ModularGrid uses the specs from PulpLogic. They differ slightly from Intellijel 1U modules. For that reason the module graphics for Intellijel must be padded top and bottom in an image editor before uploading them to MG.
E.G. an Intellijel 1U module graphic must be cropped like every other module. After that the image canvas height must be multiplicated with a factor of 1.082.
It seems that Intellijel has uploaded new versions of their modules without the needed padding. I hope that will be fixed, until that you can still use the old images by using the Panel Selector feature:
Beep, Bopp, Bleep: info@modulargrid.net
I do not see that option.
-- mikeleebirds
Make sure Panel Selector is active in the top right action buttons.
Something is wrong with the rendering on all the 1U tiles.
-- johnnn
1U tiles don't share the same format. ModularGrid uses the specs from PulpLogic. They differ slightly from Intellijel 1U modules. For that reason the module graphics for Intellijel must be padded top and bottom or the modules will look cropped.
Beep, Bopp, Bleep: info@modulargrid.net
What would be a good modular drum setup for techno/house/acid type sounds that use 808/909 patterns or should I do the analog drum synth route like an MFB Tanzbar?
I do not see that option.
-- mikeleebirds
Once the module is in your rack, click it once to see it’s options. You should see two blue buttons on the side that cycle between any option images for a particular module.
Like this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b0v8yf14fdbq6v2/buttons.JPG?dl=0
Hallo can you help me? I want make a delay at littlebits. How i make it?
Switch to the second image using the blue arrow buttons. The originals that I uploaded had a small border on the top and bottom so that the fit properly.
Weirdly it looks correct on my iPhone, but not on my iPad..
It's not that doing it with VCOs is costly...it's the whole concept itself. Full polyphony means that you have a fully-independent synth under the control of each voice signal, so you have to replicate the VCOs, VCF, VCAs, EGs, LFOs and so on over and over until you arrive at your final output mixer, where you'll mix the different voice signals together for a single mono or stereo output.
The next step down from this isn't actual polyphony. It's something referred to as 'paraphony'; each set of sound generators is controlled by a single voice signal, but instead of replicating the rest of the audio and control chains per voice, the mixdown to a single signal happens after the VCOs, then this goes through a single VCF, etc etc chain to the output. This method actually makes more sense in a modular context, since you can branch and recombine all sorts of paths along that post-VCO chain for sonic variation and arrive at a more controllable (and affordable!) system as a result. This is what I'd recommend as an approach, as a true polyphonic modular is, by default, going to be very spendy and also hell to patch and control. Think something along the lines of Junkie XL's MU 'wall' or Hans Zimmer's monster wall rig of Moog, PPG and Roland modules.
Hi everybody,
I need help building my first rack to act like a MIDI controlled poly synth for live & studio use.
I understand a poly with VCOs is a very expensive thing to consider, so I am considering wavetable.
Specifically considering the Flame 4osc which actually sounds really nice imo.
MIDI control would come from an Elektron sequencer but I'm not sure if, for example, I'd be needing a VCA or midi note length would take care of that. Yet, a VCF would be triggered from what?
I'm stuck with just the Flame module in my digital rack and don't know if I should just go for a Waldorf Microwave. But that would mean that maybe next time will be too late for eurorack.
I hope this all makes sense, thx to anyone that could provide some insight.
I’ll check with Danjel. I created the original images and had to add some extra blank space on the top and bottom for them to look right.
What happened to the photo? It used to be correct, but now the crop is wrong.
What happened to the photo? It used to be correct, but now the crop is wrong.
Was just coming to post the same thing. Yup, 1U euro modules (Intellijel in my case) are cropped short here too.
I’m on Safari, BTW.
Cheers
Mr Grassi is also a Rungler circuit,just FYI.
Yeah, it's spendy, but I also think it opens up some interesting random/generative process capabilities. I did pause a bit before adding that to this month's list because of the price, but I thought that the 'abuse potential' factors were way too great to ignore. Also, the only prebuilt version of something using the 'rungler' circuit that I could think of was Epoch's version of the Benjolin, and since that goes for about $85 more, I felt it was worth tossing into the July lineup.
That 'rungler' behavior is quite worth the price of admission, I should note. I have a Max for Live mappable rungler object in my Ableton setup, and the mayhem it can dole out all over the different aspects of a signal chain is amazing.
Greetings,
Just an observation, I've noticed that 1U modules are looking rather weird right now with either end of their graphic being cut off.
Please look into this!
Thanks!
The idea behind identical VCOs is that, if you're doing some slight detuned doubling, you'll want the VCOs to behave exactly the same way in terms of CV tracking, nonlinearities, and the like so that the end result actually seems to sound like a single source. Technically, it's not 100% necessary to do this these days, but it does assure users that if they want a specific sound that requires matched VCOs (such as emulating Minimoog bass, and so on), it'll be easy enough to do without having to make an excessive number of tweaks to deal with dissimilar hardware.
As can be read in this thread @Drazen is not accepting responsibility for his forgoing of mentioning problems with customs. He also does not react to messages of me requesting a full refund as I really don't feel like paying the customs office for his "mistake" of not mentioning that the Stuff he marks as EU come from outside the EU. As I said: "Full refund" + letting the package bounce from Austria back to Quatar would be totally fine for me but he wont react. I feel like this might be systematical. On the other hand I am sad that Quatar is not part of a customs union and it must be VERY hard to get modules there. But for everybody it would be soo much fairer to be transparent about the situation. @Drazen, if you read this: there is still time (they keep my package until the 10th) to step up and refund either partially or fully.
Sad - this is kind of my first not so good experience out of about 20 transactions on the marketplace...
Thanks @Drazen for the Sub6 mixer. Arrived quickly, and "like new" as described!
-- SpaceCowboyUnfortunately this guy @Drazen uses unacceptable selling practices.
The case: On all of his offers on marketplace (and there are many of them) he's marked his region as EU.
Having proceed transaction with him, buying a used Make Noise “Rene” for 360€ (shipping incl.),
i was very unpleasantly surprised when realised that according to DHL shipment tracking information
he provided, the true location dispatch was actually from DOHA / QATAR !!This means that (under the relevant laws of Greece, where I am based) now have to pay an extra fee of 70€
for customs clearance, plus an additional fee of about 50€-100€ (depending on weight, kind, etc.) for “used
electronics" tax, even if the package marked as "gift".During this misleading info tactic @Drazen obviously applies in order to find a broader list of potential
buyers, than on his true non EU region area, now i should pay no less than about 480€ for a used item while
on my local store (synthesizer.gr) a brand new "Rene" costs 499€!This is outrageous!
Even though cannot call this strait as a Fraud (as the extra money won't go in "Drazen’s" pocket), however it is
an extremely faulty practice and definitely a real Fraud in terms of buyers wallet.EU residents Beware of your transactions with "Drazen Saric" :(
CAVEAT EMPTOR!
-- dmgd3ar
I have a similar experience with @Drazen and I had the same feelings but on the other hand you can not list an item in Marketplace located Middle East or Central Asia ( Is this a technical limitation ? @modulargrid ). It would be adequate if @Drazen would have indicated in his Description
-- cereyanlimusiki
I feel sorry if this is how you feel. I have never ever tried to hide the location of my modules for sale, if only you would have asked.
If someone just asks for PayPal address and transfers money without making any inquiries apart from "rack rash" then I don't see any problems. I have been honest to all my buyers about the location of my modules and their condition. It is listed as EU as I do live in EU, but as someone who lives from music recording and production I do move a lot and have more than one base. Some modules are shipped from London, some from Berlin and some indeed from Doha, Qatar. If people would have been more inclined to leave feedback then I'm sure the rest of you would know the truth.Cheerio
-- Drazen
The Rung Divisions is super interesting but quite pricey. I'd be all over it otherwise!
You can favor modules if you are a Unicorn member. That way you get a tab with only the modules you've starred/favored and can browse through them at will. Super useful! I use that to see only modules that I actually own :)
When using the Module Finder (re: list of modules) one of the options is a small briefcase. Use it to add/remove modules from the My Modules tab. The tab can be found right on top of the Module Finder, right next to the All Modules. You can switch between browsing all the modules, or just the modules on My Modules.
Enjoy!
I would also love to have a feature of favoriting a module that you might want to buy in the future or that you just like without owning it. I guys the Notification on the marketplace is a bit like that but I would just like to have a favorite list without getting those notifications, to build fantasy future racks with my favorite modules etc.
A way to "star" (GitHub style) a module would be a great way to keep track of interesting modules.
-- ArkoI think we had similar requests in the thread on Muffs. A list for favorite or owned modules which is also accessible in the planner for quicker drag'n'drop. This might come.
-- modulargrid
that's some really great tips..
One thing I'm not sure about is the VCOs, i like the idea of having 2 identical oscillators but not sure how "necessary" that is..
I could achieve that goal by getting something like https://www.modulargrid.net/e/zlob-dual-vco
and then get something a little fancier like https://www.modulargrid.net/e/other-unknown-dannysound-en129
Oh, and one other maker with a line of full kits: Erica. Their DIY line is very Polivoks-inspired.
