ModularGrid uses so-called cookies to ensure it's so-called functionality. We also use dubious tracking scripts. Find out more in the Privacy Policy. We use cookies and wanna let you know.
There could be an option for users to enter their real name in their account and choose if they want it to be searchable or not.
I have no idea if such things as I‘m suggesting are easily implementable or not. Just thinking „out loud“.
Anyway, I am very happy with MG as it is and proud to be a Unicorn.
Social functions aren‘t necessary. That‘s what we have ther platforms for.
Just being able to search for users by either their real name or user would be very helpful.
Oftentimes I see an interesting video on YouTube and would then like to find their racks here, but it is usually by chance that I do. Then I copy the link to their profile and put it in my notes app. It works, but having this simple functionality right here would be great!
If there is, it can't be too recent. This system's got five discontinued modules in it, for one thing. I tried riffling thru the magazine's back issues and got nowhere when doing a bit of searching, but unless your Japanese isn't up to snuff, the article (if it can be located) might not be all that informative.
Hey, the sheer allure of 13 x 84hp is hard to pass up! Can't blame you there...
Yeah, saw that build in the other thread...it's a LOT tighter now, and with the plan to expand, it's going to grow into a veritable kaiju monster of noise over the next few years. A helluva start, to be sure!
I'll second the importance of having some other CV sources...take a cue from m1sterlurk and look into snagging an SQ-1. At $100 for a 2x8 sequencer with internal clocking and a few other tricks, it's a quick and cheap way to kick the functionality up even further. You can even use sequencers as multistage envelope generators, user-definable VCOs (if you can clock them at audio frequencies), and a bunch of other interesting things, some of which do require a couple of other modules, but hey...they don't call it EuroCRACK for nothin'!
Yes. Pretty much you're able to add another element to your initial sound and also add some movement to your sound, either by modulating the original sound or by modulating the effects you run it through. You'll get much better results than running a single sound through effects with limited modulation.
If I were to give you advice in the past tense (before you built your system), the advice I would give is to have a roughly equal number of audio generators, audio processors and CV generators; and have sufficient mixers, multiples and VCAs for them. As an example, look at the system I'm building:
I have five sound generators: Three VCOs, a Mysteron (a digital waveguide) and a noise generator.
I have six sound processors: A comb filter, two multi-mode filters, a lowpass gate, a wavefolder and a reverb
I have five CV generators: two envelopes, a Maths, a Batumi, and a DC attenuverter/fixed value generator.
I have three multiples, three four-channel mixers, and a Quad VCA module
I have a Disting, which is a multi-purpose digital module that can fill many of the above roles.
Finally, I have a stereo output module, for a total of 25 modules (26 if you count the power supply).
I should point out that I will be controlling my system with a pair of Korg SQ-1s, which gives me 4 gates and 4 CVs to work with. These are outside the modular system itself, which is why you don't see a MIDI/CV converter.
I don't have a single sound generating module that is as capable as the Braids, but I'm capable of making far more complex sounds because I can mix different oscillators at different pitches and can also cross-modulate the oscillators in various ways. My sound processors are all relatively simple in comparison to yours (which are impressive I must say), but I can get far more movement out of them because I have so many CV generators to control them with. My mixing is somewhat more capable than yours (3 4-channel mixers vs. 2 3-channel mixers).
m1sterlurk's 100% spot on here...this system has an awesome compliment of processors, but very little in the way of sources. While the Braids is a really great oscillator in of itself, having just one single audio generator isn't going to work well unless you're talking about a very minimal system build. Another problem that seems present is that some of these space-heavy processors are a bit redundant, notably the Morphagene and Clouds which are both granular sample/audio manipulator devices. If you were to let one of those go, you'd open up another either 18 or 20 hp (depending on what gets pulled out) and then that would give you more space for a bit more sources. Although, I'll second that vote for the Dixie II+, but put one of those 3-in mixers next to it to use as a handy waveform combiner to stretch out that multi-waveform oscillator's capabilities.
I'm also not a huge fan of Pittsburgh's first-gen stuff, so a different and more capable filter might also be a consideration. Hrmm...gimme a bit, gonna tinker with this...lessee...(exeunt stage left)
REMIX! C'est voila...
OK...I did some radical surgery on your original here. First up, I reworked the tile row's positioning to work together with the reconfiguration, putting the MIDI on the left above the VCOs. Buffers are next to this. Other buffer went away (redundant) along with the MakeNoise mult (too big, replaced with 2 hps for twice the mults in the same space). Modulation/S&H tile is now above the modulation sources, and the audio I/O is rightmost, again to follow the signal flow pattern with the processors now on lower-right.
VCOs are the Braids and two Dixie II+s which now have the mixers as waveform combiners as well as mixpoints for the Braids' output. This is a pretty critical rework, as it now gives you three signal sources, meaning you can use one for audio frequency modulation on the other two, and still have those two for a more complex audio source.
Audio flows down to a Morgasmatron, which is a very twisted take on the Korg MS-20's filter pair. The Pittsburgh VCF just didn't have the modulation inputs to do some really wild stuff that the Morgasmatron does easily, plus the M'tron is a dual-input VCF with a MIX output, which means you can also use this to mix audio as well, albeit with some strange stuff going on. Warps is next to tamper with the audio, either from the M'tron's MIX output or its individual filter outs, allowing you to further combine those down while processing them at the same time.
The Quad VCA is dead-center in the bottom, which allows you to easily use its VCAs for audio OR CV amplitude control. You can mix two audio signals together on VCAs 3 and 4, but still keep 1 and 2 free for DC-coupled linear work.
Morphagene is gone, as you'll note. As I noted above, it's redundant, and you don't want a lot of the same processing things in a small build like this. Kept the Clouds, which has the Erbeverb as its front end. An idea I had is this: take the mono feed from the Warps (1 + 2), feed that to the Erbeverb's mono in, then use it to generate a stereo field to feed the Clouds with, and the Clouds' output goes direct to the I/O above. So, technically, a big chunk of the middle of the audio chain is where the mixing gets done, in increments, until you hit that last processor pair and tamper with the mixed audio plus create the stereo field signal to go straight to the outs. Also, bringing the inputs in is a bit easier now, since they can come in either in mono to VCA 3 while VCA 4 handles the generated signal path...but that's just one method, and this creates several, now.
Above the processing is modulation: a dual ADSR to better deal with final VCF/VCA envelopes, the Maths for loads of definable modulation, and a Batumi for four fixed-waveform LFOs. Plenty of modulation signals now to feed the various modulation-hungry changes!
Anyway, this is how I'd approach the situation. Yes, it means swapping some things out and doing some radical surgery, but this is a much more capable build, starting with the bones of yours...and it had pretty good bones, just needed some reworking. Another suggestion (which m1sterlurk's on below) is to study experienced synthesists' builds, and glean information from seeing things that those people tend to do in common...because they work. It's also best to do and do and redo and redo and redo again and again here on MG before pulling the fiscal trigger for a system, because you can both study up AND learn how to make, then avoid making, mistakes.
Thanks all for the help! This is my first run at a modular system, and I'm still learning the ropes.
I forgot to mention I use an input on the intellijel stuff as another sound source, but that routes into the morphagene for splicing.
@m1srerlurk, if I understand you correctly I really need to get another oscillator, envelope generator, and some more lfos. That can ve patched generate a more interesting sound source. That can be altered heavily by the processing units I already have on board. Right? Makes sense now that I look at it like that.
Just wanted to let you know I decided to go ahead and pull the trigger on the entire system as configured in the link (or hopefully pictured if the top picture has updated for you).
I have a 19" rack tower (about 2 meters tall) and have decided to build into that rather than a RackBrute. Lost some space, but building into a rack that can accommodate 13 rows of Eurorack on one side will be years of joy.
I'm a little impulsive, so I wound up going for the Pittsburgh Modular Outs because I couldn't find anywhere in the US that even had the Isolator listed. I'll pick that up whenever it finally comes around.
I dropped down to 3 2hp mixers because I wouldn't have sufficient power connectors. I also got mixed reports on whether or not a buffered mult would be necessary (some people agreed with you, some people said they had problems with splitting), so I went ahead and got two in addition to a passive mult. If the passive mult or stackable cables wind up working for pitch CV purposes, I'll probably swap out the 2nd buffered mult with another 2hp mix.
I totally went for the A-106-1 filter and will have the 2hp comb filter right next to it =D
I also decided I would bypass the MIDI interface and just got a second SQ-1. I also swapped out the Make Noise Function for a Batumi.
So thank you for your advice. It was absolutely influential on my final system and will continue to influence my decisions in the future.
Your problem is that you have one module that actually generates sound: the Braids. You have two modules that generate control voltages: the uMIDI and the Maths. You have one module that generates both sound and control voltages: the Noise Tools.
You have five modules that process sound from another module: The Warps, Filter, Erbe-Verb, Clouds and Morphagene.
The reason you're not able to create interesting patches is because you don't have the means to create an interesting source sound. You have all this processing horsepower that you're applying TO A SINGLE OSCILLATOR.
Furthermore, you can have your sound follow MIDI, but when it comes to further modulation all you have is the Maths. The Maths is a powerful module, but it's really a "processing" module for CV like all your sound processing modules are for sound. It needs friends to show its true potential.
So you have 26HP open in your rig. I propose you pick up an Intellijel Dixie II+ (8hp) and a Make Noise Contour (8hp) and a Xaoc Batumi. That gets you an additional oscillator, an envelope generator, and four LFOs. This still isn't ideal, but it gets you SIGNIFICANTLY farther ahead than you were before. You have a "standard" oscillator available not just as an audio source, but also as a modulation source. You have an envelope generator for shaping the volume and effect/filter parameters without eating the Maths. You have four LFOs to use all over the place in your system.
I also propose rearranging your rack to have the signal flow generally from left to right, like this (edit: You'll have to click the image to see the rearrangement...the picture doesn't seem to show everything in its place):
I'd suggest unplugging the MIDI for a while, and purposefully making yourself not do what you've been doing... it could even be a good idea, for a short while, to re-mount your modules in the case in a random order, to intentionally bust up the more typical signal path.
Another suggestion, if you haven't seen them already, is the various "three module challenge" videos on YouTube. There's some great, and truly surprising stuff in there. Here's one I recreated today (without even the DLD, which I don't have... with your set-up, you could have a blast with this as a starting point): You have a different filter, but it should work just fine for the purposes of the exercise.
I've been using this rack for some time and enjoy using most of the modules together. Although, I don't feel like I'm getting the most out of it. My hope was to create a synth that could work as a complex synth lead which can fill out much of the mix.
Currently it feels pretty linear as to how the patches work together: braids to vca -> effects (warps, filter, verb, clouds, etc), modulation via maths, vca, other mod points. The end result is a fairly straightforward lead synth with some effects added. There isn't much spontaneity added either.
Overview
Midi / sequencing via ableton into u-midi module
Stereo mix out via the Manhattan analogue DTM mixers out to the 1u mixout which is attached to 1/4" outs via the case back into ableton.
I'd really appreciate some feedback on what modules could be added / subtracted or patching ideas which can add more depth and complexity to the sound. Thanks!
Hi all, I just discover that modulargrid got a forum! here's my first thread:
AE0N.02 Autogererative Dark Ancient Krell Music
instruments:
Make Noise Wogglebug
Eowave Zone B.F.
Make Noise STO
Make Noise Optomix
Make Noise Maths
Make Noise Rosie
Arturia Microbrute
VCV Rack (Befaco Rampage, Mutable Instruments Clouds)
Behringer FX2000 Virtualizer 3D
video manufactered by mebitek
Original footage: L'Inferno (1911) by Francesco Bertolini, Adolfo Padovan and Giuseppe de Liguoro
feedbacks welcome
best regards from Sardinia
Claudio
Electronic music/video producer and composer.
Dark Ambient Cinematic atmospheres from Sardinia.
Oh, yeah...it's a beautiful sound when you 'ring' things like that. On one thing I've got on Bandcamp (and hopefully elsewhere later this week, finally) entitled "Beneath Puget", I got the theremin on the track to 'ring' its processor chain...and it's the trippiest moment when that final pitch keeps building and getting purer in tone, then rings off into the background layers. I still recall that happening when I was cutting the track about 18 years ago, and going 'wowwww!' when that ring-off happened. Love it when those 'happy accidents' pop up...
You're welcome! I figure that after 40 years of prodding various electronic devices into musical service, it's probably time to start 'paying it forward'. After all, I definitely think that experience squandered = knowledge wasted.
Hmmm...what to do. Well, actually, I'd opt to take the Shared+ out as well, as it's not overly huge and the case makes it very portable, especially compared to some of the modular (and buttloads of other) stuff I've been known to drag out for live work. You can certainly find a sizable case that can house the laptop and skiff, and the Shared+ is in a metal briefcase-ish thing, and I think you'd still be able to drag along the line-lump supplies and a pile of patchcables in the bag with the laptop and skiff. It'll just take some ingenuity.
OK, given that plan and sticking with Mutable stuff, I'd opt for an Elements and a Ripples once the Rosie's in the Shared System+. MakeNoise doesn't have any of its modelling toys in the Shared Systems, such as the Mysteron and Telharmonic, and the Elements' sound would be killer against the other west coast things. And having a multimode filter is still important, because even Don Buchla figured out that some sounds just need subtractive tricks to make them work, ergo he even eventually came out with a multimode VCF, albeit as quirky as you'd expect from Don. As for a Clouds...nah, not in this case, since the Morphagene does a lot of the granular mangling, plus you have the Erbeverb as well. But everything seems fine; you even have the requisite VCAs in the Shared+, in the form of the Optomix (LPG) and the Modemix (you can use that as two DC-coupled VCAs in a pinch by using CVs, etc as the modulator signal). The only thing I kindasorta wish was in the Shared+, tho...a Brains, because then you can also sequence up that Pressure Points with it, and it's a natural combo alongside the Tempi and Rene. Maybe if you use a big enough hammer to try and fit it in there...?
I'm planning on getting a shared system plus, but want a small skiff for overflow/experiments/mobility. (For example take only my laptop, the skiff, and maths or more from the system.)
Dedicated midi input
Play with mutable modules, leave room for system modules
Cue patches in a live setting
(The Rosie can live in the shared system)
What mutable modules would you add (besides clouds) That pair well with system plus modules?
Also thanks Lugia in advance for all your replies here.
Yep...as suspected, high abuse potential. Love the 'irreparably-damaged bouzouki'-type racket the Mysteron's doing there, especially when it hangs up on that higher note in the pattern. The distorted, metal-screechy parts when the sound goes into that overloaded-signal type of distortion is excellent! That's going to be an interesting little rig...
-- Lugia
Thank you, I am very happy with how its turning out so far. I've always been a fan of feedback; when I played Bass I'd use a tube fender bassman through a 4x10 and a GK 1000 watt through a 1x15 to be able to get some controlled feedback. When I turned up the re-generation and it started howling I literally shed a tear.
Yep...as suspected, high abuse potential. Love the 'irreparably-damaged bouzouki'-type racket the Mysteron's doing there, especially when it hangs up on that higher note in the pattern. The distorted, metal-screechy parts when the sound goes into that overloaded-signal type of distortion is excellent! That's going to be an interesting little rig...
Damn...that's nasty sounding! You oughta retitle it 'Ghetto Grit', 'coz it's got that dirty, dusted-out, defective f**ked-up sort of sound to it. Just needs that Miami 808 BOOOOM! and that thing's done! Nice!
Well, there's the Erica Pico Out...that's a 3 hp stereo out module with a headphone amp. But trying to cram both functions into the same remaining 3 hp will be virtually impossible. The other idea would be to use a Erica Pico CV Mix...this is a DC-coupled 3 to 1 mixer, and with that you can mix both audio and control voltages. CV mixers have to be DC-coupled, since you can't pass extremely low frequency signals such as LFOs or DC voltage values via an AC-coupled mixer. Those are for audio only. The reason I'm suggesting that particular mixer is because you can use it for mixing modulation curves out of the Maths when you need to do that, or for an audio mixer when that's called for.
As for using the Moogs as outputs, there are several points into which you can patch on the M32 to put a synth-level signal into it as part of its signal flow. Probably the best points for audio would be one of the VC Mix inputs, probably the HPF patchpoint (Mix 2), as that lets you keep the low-pass engaged for your M32's signal and you can CV the mix between that and the audio signals on the rack. As for CV signal patchpoints...anything that notes that it's a CV function on the M32's patchpanel will take a CV or modulation signal. So for example, to modulate the LFO's speed you'd patch in a signal from one side of the Maths, set that up with the slopes you want, config it to loop, and then your M32's LFO time is sweeping up and down. The DFAM has similarly-usable patchpoints on it also. Not quite sure, however, if the Moogs want to see line-level audio or synth-level at their "Ext Audio" patchpoints, but a bit of experimentation can sort that out.
Best thing I could suggest is: study this site. This pretty much IS the compendium for everything modular on the Internet with the exception of cases, which are one of the few parts of a modular synth that MG doesn't cover. But if it goes IN the case, 99.9 times out of 100, it's here. But read up on what the basic modules do, for starters. Muff Wiggler: also helpful, plus spending some time on Doepfer's website seeing how their modules function (Dieter is good about going into detail) isn't a bad idea at all.
As for taking up space, you will find...sooner or later...that electronic music equipment somehow breeds like rats and overtakes everything. Expect it.
Wow, thanks for the thorough answer here. Extremely helpful. Although, still a bit overwhelmed.
If i were to keep with this set up for awhile, how do you i play them all at once? do you i need to patch each module into an outside mixer. Is there an 3hp or 2hp that would provide me with mixing ability and headphone and stereo out?
I totally agree with you about spending all my time working with the mother 32 and the dfam but i was hoping to keep them all in the same rig to be efficient with space (small apartment). Its definitely my plan to pull the moogs out eventually, but my thought now was to bring them all together in a rack and learn them and store them easily.
Interesting, about what you are saying about using the moogs as audio out for the rackbrute though...
Actually, you should only have 3 hp left, which is actually a bit worse than 4.
I'm looking at a build of what you're describing here, and it seems to me that you may have painted yourself into a corner, so to speak. The problem stems from a couple of things:
1) The Moog synths should probably stay in their own cabs. That way, you have them under their own power supplies, and they have their own audio outs (and can be used for the Rackbrute's audio out, in theory). This would then free up 120 hp in the Arturia cab. Plus, the DFAM + M32 combo in Moog's double-cab stand looks ass-kickin'.
2) You seem to be falling into the 'sexy module trap'. Yeah, some of these might look really killer and seem to pack loads of function if you base that concept on module size. However, this is a real problem, because both assumptions are often pretty wrong. Now, I will note that in the case of the Maths, it's a correct assumption...but maybe not so much with the Chord. While it looks like a must-have, it's actually more of a specialized device. It's also 28 hp, which is a bad idea for inclusion in a limited space rack. If this were something designed specifically for polyphonic use, which is what Qu-bit's quad stuff excels at, that would be a good choice...but then the Moogs would be a lousy choice. Or if you were doing a lot of sequencer-based generative stuff, the Chord would be awesome, but that doesn't seem to be the point of this cab.
The truth is, you need to be looking at smaller modules if you're going to go for maximum function in a 2 x 88hp cab. And you also want to look at what I call 'boring' modules...because in of themselves, they might be boring, but in tandem with one or two other devices, they open up those devices' potential massively. And again, these same 'boring' modules can also open up the Moog devices' potential.
Case in point: a comparator. Ladik makes one that fits in 4 hp, looks boring. Just emits a gate in a few ways when a voltage threshold gets crossed. Ho-hum.
Now, take that same boring comparator and feed a weird CV curve into it off of the Maths. Send the gate to an EG that treats an incoming gate as indicating a 'hold' state. Now, feed that envelope to a linear VCA that has a CV out from a sequencer passing thru it so that the envelope controls the VCA's passing CV level. Now, send that resulting voltage on to a VCO, but gate the VCO so that audio doesn't pass when the comparator's level is 'low'. OK...now jam all of that activity into only 16 hp.
Impossible? Well, I'm looking at that very thing in this other browser window over here...
Yeah, some modules look dull, some seem like they're too small to do the job, and so on. Not true, though. This is just a basic example of what presumably 'underpowered' modules can do, in conjunction with other sleepy-looking stuff.
My suggestion...like I said, re-cab the Moogs and free up your space. Keep the two modules that you do have, and figure out how to anchor an auxiliary cab around them, one that compliments the functions of the Moogs. But before doing that, spend some (a lot) of time on MG studying others' builds, and spend a lot of time with the Moogs to discover their strengths and weaknesses, and how each could be made better by subsections in the Arturia cab build, keeping your module sizes small to jam maximum function in minimum space. In the end, you'll wind up with a much more powerful system with a lot more complexity and capability.
Tiny but cool...I'd go with a regular passive mult, though; you don't have enough voltage splitting in here for it, and you can save a little chunk of cash that way.
Definitely post some noisemaking examples with this thing...it looks properly 'abusable'!
-- Lugia
Here's my first patch using this synth. I have the Mysteron being clocked from the DFAM and then out through the DLY, I hopefully will have the Pressure Points tomorrow or (maybe with any luck) today. Having the Mult really came in handy as now I can use the Pitch out on the DFAM to modulate the VFC Decay on the DFAM and the Pitch 2 input of the Mysteron.
Updated to 90hp:
The 48hp power supply that came with the case only provided intermittent power, even though it was well under the power consumption levels. I installed them all on the 90hp case with no problems and its working correctly. Which gives me a chance to build this into a more dynamic synth now that I have extra space. Also, lesson learned; I need to be careful where I source modules and cases/power supplies. Its probably better to buy new when possible.
That being said, the Mysteron and the Delay work amazing together. I’m running the Mysteron off the trigger, pitch, VCA, and VCF EG of the DFAM; then out to the DLY. After looking into things a bit more I think I am going to continue this synth build in a "West Coast" direction. Maybe an Elements or Plaits.
WOWZERS. Thank you SO MUCH. You really went above and beyond here. This is an amazing improvement. Thank you so so much! I love this layout. I'll try it out asap.
Most of the audio is up top, with the buffered mult for CVs to the far left. Morphagene is last in line to screw around with the results from the Lifeforms, Drums, and thruput from the Rings.
Bottom row is initial clock-in devices, then the Rene. Quantizing and arpeggiation to the right. Then the Maths for screwing around with modulated parameters; this also allows your sequencing and mod patching to go 'up' to the voicing. After that, Disting to mess equally with CVs, modulation, and all of the other stuff it can do. Last 'voice', the Chord Organ, is right next to the Rosie mixer to easily hook it in as a crossfade option, plus it's near the quantizing, Rings, and Morphagene for easy abuse purposes.
P/S got moved to the lower row, since it's movable, and having its power inlet on the lower left with audio outs on the lower right seemed ergonomically sound for cable dressing. And I even added the 1hp MakeNoise blank right next to the Rosie, where it looks perfectly natcheral. Howzat?
Hello everybody,
Can any of yous guys give any advice regarding organizing this case? Its packed full (1hp remaining) and I was wondering about organizing it for best cable management and routing patches in the best way. Thanks all!
I need to spend more time going over the mods I have made and insure they are the correct ones.
If they stand the test of time with no abhorrent behavior I will consider making a DIY kit at which
time I will entertain requests for personal modifications.
Thank you for the interest!
Building it up for more connectivity and control of my 3 Arturia MicroBrutes, Moog Mother 32, Roland Torcido/Bitrazer/Demora, Behringer Neutron and 5 panels of Frac modules from Blacet, Metalbox and Wiard.
Not a bad idea, that...Arturia really hit a home run with this system. Built-in handle, mateable to the new Minibrute 2 versions or another Rackbrute, and the whole mess folds up with the support stand turning into a handle for the whole contraption. But the reason I was thinking that might work is that you can attach the Rackbrute to a Minibrute 2 or 2s, letting it sit on the stand, and then have the Rackbrute on its attachment above the Minibrute. However, I'm not quite sure how the back supports of the Rackbrute stand will work on a typical keyboard stand; my plan is to have it on a flat surface, which is how I'm usually seeing it set up.
