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Hunterprime, yes, it's because I planned to start out working with the Beatstep Pro and The Oxy One. That way I could concentrate on sequenceing some specific melodies as I learn the rack better. Then once I have a good understanding and some time under my belt on it, then there will end up being a 4th rack added that I will fill up slowly with modules in areas I find I'm lacking in, new releases, or possibly deals I come across. I've looked into the sort of modules you mentioned many times, and ultimately it's the size that was a big factor. After looking at every video I could find on modules of that sort, Trigger Riot was the one that caught my eye and I will almost certianly be one of the fist to go into the 4th rack. It does look like a lot of fun! (I also like that it doesnt have a micro screen which was the downside of the Metropolix for me.)
I also personally think that keeping the MN modules like MATHS, XPO, DXG together is going to give you massive bang for your buck. Maths in perticular, pairs beautifuly with the DXG and XPO
-- Hunterprime
MN does seem to aim for making modules that complement eachother well.
My layout of the modules will surely be diffrent than what is shown here. It'll just take a bit of time to see what I end up useing the most, what makes it easy for my fingers to fit, and what just seems to make sense.
I have used 2hp modules before. I still have the Mix. Frankly, though, for this amount of money, I would say to not put a bunch of them in. They wiggle even if they're built rock solid, amd the knobs are not fun. If you decide later you need some function they provide and have to have it in 2hp, then go for it.
The wiggle aspect is an important one that I had not given thought to! I have been retweaking the rack and have pulled all of the 2hp modules except the pluck and hi/low pass ones. The Oxy One was the last contemplation that was added, and with that, there was a lot of redundancy with the 2hp modules that did mean I could pull them from the rack.
Once you have a Rample and a 2hp Play, I can't help but think you should just try a Bitbox or a Squid Salmple - especially if you're also worried about the Queen of Pentacles and the SD card on the back.
I really liked the Squid, it seemed to have a lot of what I was looking for and I have a feeling that in the future I might end up with one. However, starting out, it seemed like it was a bit more complex than what I would need it for. The Bitbox seemed nice as well, but I every time I looked into it, I felt like I might as well just use my NI Maschine if I was going to go for a route that offered such complexities. The Queen of Pent, I figured I would mostly just have cymbals in the sample slots and not end up monkeying with the card often. (Though I do think its a wacky design to put in on the back.) That way I'd have the Rample for my sampled drums, and the QoP sample slots for the cymbals
You can also look into CV to MIDI converters like the Befaco CV Thing or the Sweet 16 faderbank
I think the CV Thing will suit most of my immedate needs quite well :)
Overall, this seems pretty balanced. Usually imagined systems this big are a bit of a mess. More modulation is nice, so if you expand, definitely look there first.
-- Zacksname
That's great to hear, I somewhat expected there to be an aspect, necesity, or process that I totally overlooked. Other than a filter or two (and possibly another quantizer), some more modulation is really all was feeling like I might need. So I do feel like I'm on the right track, and appreciate the feedback! Any advice for a modulation module that would be fit well or fill an area that I'm lacking or that I am weak in? I had been considering a Tripple Sloth, though I held off on adding it because it's not available from my local synth shop. (Though obviously that wouldnt prevent me from grabbing one.)
Jopair,
Thanks again for your insight! AS for the filters, I determined that it would suit me best to decide on a filter or two to add once I can get to my local synth shop and get some hands on eartime with them. I did find a couple videos of the Dual Dagger that were compelling, and the Atas I already knew I was fond of. So I think Im going to hold off until I can more specifically determine what I need to sculpt the sounds that I'm looking for.
MIDI isn't all that bad, just kind of tedious.
That said, if you have a more specific question about connection issues. Throw it out and someone will probably have 'an' answer.
I havent used MIDI since about 1985 and back then I just thought it was lacking/clumsy and the gear I had back then didn't warrant heavy use of it. Now days, I figure that once I get all my new gear and start setting it up, my questions will be able to be much more specific if I run into any issues.
I tend to not do drums in modular. I just couldn't find any great combination or reason to justify essentially doubling the footprint.
That was my exact original take when I first started looking into it.
I've been working on tweaking this rack before I pull the trigger and think I may have come up with a happy medium now with everyones help/suggestions. (I'll share it once I think I have it all worked out)
I like Data Bender.
-- Jopair
I do also, it seemed like one of their best modules. Though as much as I like it, I didnt think it would fit well with the sort of music I was looking to make. But later down the road, I have a feeling I might end up with one.
GateKeeper, thanks for the response, lots of good thoughts in there!
I deliberately tried to get a mix of straight forward vs complex modules. I wanted some that were a no-brainer and that I could immediately dive right in with. However I also wanted many that would take quite a bit of time to explore the nuances and possibilities of. I love to learn almost to the point of compulsion. (I can devour logic puzzle books faster than they can print them. lol) As much as this new hobby will be for making music (or even just noise and soundscapes), I enjoy deep learning about things that are of interest to me, and I find that just as entertaining as the creative aspects. Anyone that didn't love the learning aspect, I would say should likely not be looking into starting off with something of this scale. So while that is a great recommendation to point out, I am actually looking for something to study and make my brain work as I devour it.
I've used complex 3D modeling and animation programs for many many years, and programs like After Effects or 3D Max are extremely menu driven. My eyes need a break from it and on a monitor, its bad enough, but on a module with a micro LED screen... well, I just don't want to have to pull out glasses or a magnifying glass every time I want to change a value of something. Something basic and straight forward with minimal layers, I could live with. But some modules look great and do everything under the sun, but I'm wanting to step away from the computer, and deep menus, while I'm comfortable using them, simply is counter to what I'm looking to do.
As for the visual aspect, mostly the issue is following the signal path (which on my Rev2 is all behind the scenes). As long as there is a visual representation (without menu diving), I'm happy. For instance, the Quadrax will display a different LED color depending on the mode. That is enough for me to be comfortable with. But being able to follow the course of patch cords to visually see the signal path will make all the difference in the world compared to internal routing. I also included a Mordax DATA so that I could pass signals through just to see the waveform as I twisted knobs to get a much better understanding of whats being changed and how (as opposed to drying to decipher it just by listening).
Desmodus: Yes, I really dig this. (The company seems great too, and I really like their way of letting you swap firmware)
Bloom: I seem to hear more positive comments about the company than about their modules. But this was the one particular one I could envision many uses for. I read the manual (a couple times) and watched quite a few videos and it seemed that for the price and hp that it had a lot of uses. I do think there is quite a bit of behind the scenes stuff that will make it a little harder to learn the nuances of it, and that was definately a consideration on this module. I think what persuaded to to include it was that it gave me a good module to spend time learning on that filled a its role nicely. While getting it to do something specific that I wanted was not something that would be happening quickly, but simply twisting knobs and stumbling across something randomly that sounded intriguing and fun seemed like it would be fairly easy. (I'm wondering, would you say that is accurate?) I had looked ad various Turing Machine versions and they seemed more complicated and I would end up wanting several add ons to get the most use from it, So it seemed that would be a more expensive route and take up more hp. What would you say are the main benefits of a TM as opposed to the Bloom?
Queen of Pent: One reason I selected it is because it was a module I could jump right in with. But, that aspect also makes it limited in ability to modulate So I have been somewhat torn on this module for that reason. (The rear sd card access is something that obviously no one is a fan of.) The idea on what to switch it with is some good info. I did like the flexibility of the Basimilus (and do like the company as I stated earlier). I'm not as familiar with the Tymp Legio, but will definitely look into it.
Pico Dsp: I originally had selected quite a few Picos, but the DSP is the only one that I didn't ultimately decide to rule out. It seemed to have great review and was fairly popular, so that helped play a part in including it. I thought that it a good range of "set it and forget it" abilities and most of them were things I would actually use. I figured that since one of my cases would be set up to be disconnected from everything and be a stand alone travel rack, that would be were the smaller modules would all end up. Though I do think I would like it more if it was 4hp.
As for the MIDI, I have a lot of other gear the couple take use of MIDI connectability later on down the line. But the things I listed were the main things I was wanting to connect. I plan to do a lot of multi tasking, such as Playing the bass or guitar while using the bass MIDI keyboard with my feet and being able to reach over and play a riff on a keyboard at the same time. The Beatstep pro will would be used for drum stuff mostly, and the OxyOne would be more for keyboard sequencing, so some MIDI functionality will be necessary. However, since one of the cases will be a travel stand alone case, I was planning to keep that one MIDI-free and not even have a keyboard so I could focus soley on patching with that one. That way I would have the best of both worlds.
I always appreciate anyone's 2 cents (Or even 3-4 cents! lol). And as for having fun... of course! That's why I listed that as my #1 objective for the rack :)
Traxam, thanks, I'm actually glad you made this comment about the Octalinks as I did look at every option I could find. I REALLY wanted a cleaner option, and did want to stick with CAT cables. I just REALLY wish that these cases had jacks on it for internal wiring of it. (For the price of them, they should. Or at least have a popout panel for people who want to mod them.)
With simply a hole in the back or top, it makes it difficult to just detach the cable (but obviously solves the cleanness aspect). So I figured my only option would be to cut a hole and mount a face plate that I could install a pair of RJ45 keystone coupler jacks on. That way with a 6 inch cable from the module to the jack, I could have the optimal output jacks on the case itself. The cases are expensive and that makes me hesitant, but having it just how I want it would seem to make it worth the effort. I figured I'd need to get my hands on the cases first though to be able to determine how much effort it would take and the ease of doing the modification. Wood cases would be simple, though the 104 7U IntJ cases would be a much greater endeavor.
So if I don't find the case to be easily modifiable, I figured I could have the Octalinks in the center and be able to wrap each wire around the case handle before inserting it and that should help keep it a little cleaner than just dangling and being in the way.
Jopair, thanks for the response! I really do like the Atlas, it does have several qualities that I found quite appealing. When I first looked at it, I think that it was the HP that I thought was a bit large. Though since I'm thinking I might need to have more filtering, coupled that with the fact that it being 4 channels really does justify the size, It's definitely worth another look!
The Dual Dagger I will have to revisit, as I recall, the videos I had come across last time I looked into it, I found difficult for me to distinguish what was the module vs what was the other 20 modules patched into it for the demonstration video. I'll have a look again and see if I can find some other videos about that that I might have overlooked. I do appreciate the module suggestions!
I totally get the dislike (that many seem to share) for the 2hp sized modules. I do wish they were 3-4 hp each. Generally speaking, I do prefer ease-of-use as opposed to a micro form factor that emphasizes on space saving. For the most part, I figured those modules would end up being set up and used it for aspects that I wouldn't be changing often. Though I would be happy to be able to swap them out for something with the same functions that is in a slightly bigger form factor. Also, since I was planning to have one of the cases be a detachable stand-alone mobile rig, I figured the 2hps would end up in that case just to cram in a little more options in that travel rig.
You did answer my main question (is there anything glaringly wrong here). I wanted to make sure I had my basics covered. I have seen lots of posts like mine with responses such as: You don't have enough VCAs, why no mults, or that you have nothing to output such-n-such to. So I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something I overlooked or missed where some aspect of my rack is missing another module or aspect that is needed for basic functionality, or a module that people feel is almost a compulsory addon.
Having everyone choosing different modules is a great aspect. Something like Maths I can see the versatility of and understand why so many people use it. Though something like Plaits, I can see the versatility, but I don't share the appeal for it as most people do. (Something it seems you might relate to?)
I would say that the main things I'm on the fence about are the midi modules and my ability to get everything connected. The other man thing would be the Queen of Pent and the analogue drum aspect. While I think the Rample module will be good for samples of actual drums (which I have a large library of), I'm not the biggest fan of 808 style drums. I do like 909 style better, but generally the sort of music I will mainly be making would be making use of more actual drum sounds. I do want to include some drums of a 909ish style or something similar, but I would like to be able to sculpt the sounds a little more than the QoP might be capable of. Many drum modules have the ability to go WAY out of actual "drum sounds" and that is appealing though I have a few worries. One being that modules with a lot of range might be harder to get dialed in to something more traditional sounding perhaps? Also multiple modules can be more expensive as well as take up more space. Where as something like DFAM seems good, I think that perhaps individual modules might be a better fit. I had originally picked QoP because it seemed to be a very straightforward module, but that seems to come at the expense of versatility and range.
Thanks for getting that fixed, I thought I was losing my mind. It was frustrating trying to make my post and not being able to figure out why it wasn't working as it seemed it should. Just my luck to find a bug my first time posting. I appreciate your quick attention in fixing the issue.
Everything I can find simply says to "cut/paste the link to the rack into the post editor", but that only creates a clickable link in my post rather than showing the actual rack in the post. I can't see anything I am doing wrong or any reason it should not work... what gives? What is the precise method/format of making this actually work? What the hell am I doing wrong????
This is the format I'm useing (that just yields a link):
https:// modulargrid.com/e/racks/view/2546918
Edit: Now that the bug is fixed, I added a space in the above link so that the link would show instead of the rack so what I was doing would be viewable.
So I guess this is the common "Hey I'm new, looking for opinions on my rack" post. I know this is a long post and the rack is a lot to digest, but I would be most appreciative of anyone who had the time/desire to look through it.
Here's the breakdown of what I own, what I'm looking to get, and what I'm looking to do with it:
Gear I already own:
Prophet REV2 synth
Maschine mk2 and S88 keyboard (extensive NI Komplete suite)
Various guitar pedals
Various rackmount FX and utilities
Keith McMillen 12 Step2 MIDI Bass Pedal Foot Controller
TASCAM 24chan Mixer/Recording Console
Gear I'm planning to get:
All the modules shown in the 3 racks
3 Intellijel 7U 104HP cases
Boss 505 mk2 desktop looper
Beatstep Pro
OXI One MIDI/CV Sequencer
Wasp desktop synth
The obvious thing to tell someone new is to "start slow, learn and build gradually", and I do understand the merits of this and completely agree with it. However as much as I would like to be able to do it that way... I will simply (and vaguely) say that I do have some very compelling reasons not to follow this sound advice (and leave it at that).
Here is what I'm looking to accomplish with my rack:
1) Be able to have fun/entertain myself.
2) Create Ambient/generative scoundscapes as well as melodic tracks, scores, songs, and pieces. (Sometimes played live, sometimes sequenced)
3) Create tracks you can zone out to, meditate to, dance to, and even tracks you can stagedive to.
4) I want to have enough real estate that I can work on a "main patch" and still have room/modules to create something totally separate without having to unpatch something else to do it. (Partly to just experiment with layers to add into the main patch, but also to be able to "take a break" from the main patch and spend time doing some exploring or deep dives in learning and exploring the nuances of other modules before returning to the main patch I was working on.)
5) I plan to create self generative tracks as well as play the rack live. It will also be used to compliment other aspects of my music projects outside of the rack.
While I grew up on old school arcade sounds and C64 games, I'm looking to mainly create stuff that is more of "a song" rather than something that sounds like an Atari 2600 game soundtrack. So I'm assuming I need to look into filtering a bit more because I'm not really looking to make "beeps and blips" sort of tracks. Also, I'm not into techno style stuff, but it's hard to describe the vision in my head because I've never heard anyone else make music in the main style I'm looking to create. (Picture Frank Zappa, The Beach Boys, Black Flag, Vangellis, Rush, The Dead Milkmen, Kraftwork, Black Sabbath, Devo, Yes, and the Ramones all mixed into one.)
I'm new to modular, but not new to creating music. My Rev2 synth is great and I've had it for several years now, but the problem has always been that the "patching is hidden", and I tend to work MUCH better visually. If I can't see the pathways, I don't always get a clear grasp of the signal flow or what is going on, leaving me to generally not stray far from the presets. (Also there's a bit too much menu diving on it for my taste.) I will say that I do love the feel of the keybed on this piece of gear.
Being new at modular, I'm sure there's things I'm overlooking or perhaps even misunderstanding. However, for the most part, if I know what it is that I don't adequately understand, I typically try to research it and get a better grasp. (For instance, I have already read the manuals for all of the modules in the rack). But my problem is likely this: "I don't know what I don't know". (That makes it impossible to research without it being pointed out to me. So that is part of the reason for this post.)
Here's some thoughts behind what I have in mind:
For cases, I picked three Intj 7u 104hp cases each outfitted with a pair of 1U Octalinks to route each case to the others. That way I can just pull the 3 CAT cables off to be able to put the case lids on without having to unpatch everything. The 3 cases will normally be set next to each other, but one will eventually be configured as a traveling case (That's one of the reasons for some of the redundancy in module selection).
For outputs, I have 3 Intj stereo outputs to go to the mixer/recorder console. The Xchangr module also gives me a stereo FX loop (or 2 mono ones). Plus an additional stereo output for a tuner and vocoder pedal. (So in total, I would have the ability to output 6-10 channels to the recording console simultaneously)
The 1U Flips seem quite useful and I can see multiple ways I'll use them throughout most of my patches.
I will also make good use of quantizer and arpeggiators as I am looking to do mostly melodic stuff. (I am feeling like another quantizer might be a good idea, but I figured I'd wait and see, and then I'd have a better idea what I like/need after putting in some time on the rack.)
I have a strong dislike for small displays, non-full sized keyboard keys, and menu diving.
I have zero interest in VCVRack, I've stared at computer monitors since the early BBS days and now my sore eyes require time away from a screen.
I'd like to do most of the mixing onboard, but everything will be outputted to my 24 track console where any final tweaks can be made.
I plan to use a Boss 505mk2 to add vocals and for some basic sampling duties. (Though I'm not set on the best way to integrate it into the rack to get maximum functionality from it.) The Rample sampler would be used for traditional drum samples, the Queen of Pent for 909 style, and the 2hp Play for vocal oneshots, callouts, and FX.
As for MIDI, since I plan on being able to split the rack to have part of it be a traveling rig, I went with multiple MIDI modules (and to take advantage of the built-in jacks in the cases). I've never been a huge fan of MIDI and always thought it felt "a little clumsy". While I have had "use for" it over the years, I simply never had a "definitive need" for it, so I have mostly avoided using it in the past. However today is a different story... the MIDI devices I would using with the rack are:
Beatstep Pro
OXI One MIDI/CV Sequencer
Wasp desktop synth
Boss 505 mk2 desktop looper
K.M. 12 Step2 MIDI Bass Pedal
I also will possibly be getting a basic MIDI keyboard as well. Would a 5th or 6th MIDI device mean I would need another MIDI module? Or only if I was trying to use them all at the same time? I'm wanting to hook everything up at once and not have to constantly unplug stuff when I want to use something. I'm not sure that the modules I have selected are adequate for what I'm looking to connect MIDI-wise. Any advice in this area would be helpful.
Once I get a better grasp of everything and get enough playtime under my belt, I will be looking into heading into a quadraphonic direction (and eventually possibly into octaphonic territory) I already have seen a few modules that would compliment that aspect, though I'm not worried about addressing any of that at this point in time as that's far down the road at this point, but figured it was worth mentioning.
The racks are not currently laid out exactly how I would position all of the modules (obviously that is a constant changing work in progress for most people). I'll need to get a better idea of what I use the most and which modules work well or compliment each other before I have a better idea of the flow and layout I want. Though I'll likely end up positioning modules more for accessibility reasons more so than a left to right signal flow layout. I did intentionally leave some spaces between many modules for ease of finger access (until at some point new acquisitions gobble that space up).
So is there anything obvious (or not so obvious) that I have overlooked? Utility modules? Basic functionality modules? Ease of use stuff? Something missing? Something that's exceedingly overkill? Any (helpful) thoughts, opinions, suggestions, questions, or comments would be welcome.
