Populating my 6U 88HP Eurorack

Hi all,

I'm currently building my first rack, I use it to make some kind of ambient music, but with a noisy twist.
I also have Moog DFAM, Subharmonicon and Mother 32. So I would like to be able to output the signals of these into my case, but also to play my rack as a stand-alone.

Here is what I have for the moment. I find it nice to begin with, but I would like to add more voices. I also miss some attenuation if I want to ouput the signal from the case to the Moog. And I guess some filter would be a nice addition.

And this is what I'm considering buying next, but I'm having trouble making up my mind:

• Erica Synths Pico Out: don't know if it's necessary as I rarely play with headphones, but would be a plus if I take the case on holidays.
• Happy Nerding 3x MIA, or Frap Tools 321? People seem to like both for different reasons, but can't decide which would be best suited for me.
• 2hp Loop: may be a bit redundant with Mimeophon on "hold", but allows looping up to 5 minutes of sound, so would be great for noisy backgrounds? Any other idea for sound mangling compact module? Maybe an FX Aid?
• Frap Tools 333: large number of mult/mix possibilities. Seems the best option to me.
• DivKid Ochd Expander: for a larger choice of modulation. Any opinions on this?
• Another Cloaks: I guess another voice + stereo output would force me to take this amount of additional VCAs.
• Qpas: I think it's a pretty Moog-esque filter, but the sound shaping possibilities + stereo output attract me to it. Any thoughts?
• Dual Dagger: a second voice would mean the need for a second VCF, I guess, and I'd like a pretty different one from the Qpas (if I go on with this one). But I also have Bastl Ikarie, Endorphin.es Squawk Dirty To Me, Schlappi 100 Grit, Joranalogue Filter 8 on my list, and open to ideas. Like maybe Eowave Tempête Magnétique, instead of having 2 different filters... Or Xaoc Katowice to have something a bit different?
• 4ms Ensemble : I love the sound of this one from the multiple videos I saw. But the Magerit Laniakea seems really good too. I'm also liking what I saw of less standard VCOs Forge TME Vhikks X and Error Instruments Liquid Glitcher but they may be hard to master?

So yeah, a whole bunch of questions, please feel free to give your opinion or tell me if I've forgotten something important.
I'm also open to other modules (though not too keen on screens and menu diving).
Thanks :)

These few comments. Yes, save a place for an output module: Pico is a good compact module but others like Befaco also offer very good solutions. I agree with you regarding the presence of two filters, for a number of reasons including the positioning of voices in the sound spectrum. The 4ms Ensemble Oscillator is one of the best sound sources currently, not to be put in the same category as the Liquid Glitcher which is just a nice gadget.

I would suggest a disking mk4 if space is limited. i mean its 86 modules in one. And a Pam's if you want to clock all those oscillators easily.

Thanks for these inputs!

These few comments. Yes, save a place for an output module: Pico is a good compact module but others like Befaco also offer very good solutions. I agree with you regarding the presence of two filters, for a number of reasons including the positioning of voices in the sound spectrum. The 4ms Ensemble Oscillator is one of the best sound sources currently, not to be put in the same category as the Liquid Glitcher which is just a nice gadget.
-- Sweelinck

Currently I output the Out4 of my Cloaks/Veils directly into the small Moog mixer I got with my DFAM / Mother 32. Thus I don't know if I really need an output module. I checked what Befaco had to offer though, and found that the STMIX could be useful. I also removed the second Cloaks to replace it with a more compact Happy Nerding 3x VCA. Do you think my utilities / VCAs needs would be covered with all this?

I also added a 2HP contact mic / preamp because I would like to experiment sticking a piezo on litteraly anything and feeding it to Rings/Resonate, Mimeophon, Loop...

I would suggest a disking mk4 if space is limited. i mean its 86 modules in one. And a Pam's if you want to clock all those oscillators easily.
-- Vegamorph

The menu diving scares me a bit, I must confess. It may be stupid as complex modules with many knobs can be even more complicated to master I guess... Disting is really tempting, I may give it a go and resell it if it doesn't fit. Pam is even scarier to me, and I already use the T2 output of Marbles/Dice, or the clock out from my Moogs to trigger my modules. Do you feel it may not be enough?

I'm no expert but the limited experience I have in transferring from synths and semi modular to modular, if that I needed lots of modulation for those lovely sounds. It was both vca and envelopes that I quickly used up so my recent purchases have looked for things that double up as secondaries for those tasks. I agree the disting needs a manual on hand which sucks but Pams is very fluid with barely more than one nested menu in most use cases, and the oled really helps. but for bang for buck, it's great.

The level of Cloaks/Veils outputs corresponds to the level used in the modular world. This is a much higher level than that used by the almost majority of external/usual audio equipment (level called 'line') and this is why we use an output module that will adjust to the line level required (by most mixers or recorders, for example).

Please note, the StMix is a small (but excellent) mixing module. It allows you to mix signals inside your modular and it is not designed to be an output module.

Vca: Cloaks/Veils plus Happy Nerding 3x VCA will be sufficient.
Utilities: one often recommend a matrix mixer (like this one: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ai-synthesis-ai008-eurorack-matrix-mixer)

For more informations :
https://learningmodular.com/glossary/10-db/
https://learningmodular.com/glossary/mixer/
https://learningmodular.com/choosing-utility-mixers-for-your-modular/

PS: As @Vegamorph suggests, Disting mk4 and Pam's are worth considering, and no difficulty using them. No need for degrees from Harvard University, University of Oxford plus École Polytechnique.

Thanks!

I will look into the Disting and Pam's, then. The matrix mixer seems interesting too!

When I bought my case I didn't know about line level vs. modular level. So I plugged the output of the Cloaks directly into the Moog mixer, and the output of this mixer into the Aux In of my speakers. As you can plug headphones directly into the back of the Moog semimodulars, I guess they output line level audio, and that it's the level that is expected by the mixer. Anyway, the modular level delivered by the Cloaks never caused any audible problem down the line. I hope it didn't cause any hardware damage either, but as the opinions I read about the necessity of an output module were mixed, I didn't give it too much thought. Until your post, that is... So here I am, not knowing if an output module is necessary as long as I keep sending my modular signal to the Moog mixer, or if I can save a few precious HP for something else :)

i suppose a lot of this depends on your specific expectation of the rack(s). i also use an external mixer for parts of my rack, as well as external gear. But if i pop on to a modular meetup, I want to take a small case with a dedicated small hp output for simple plug'n'play duties. This is both the blessing and curse of modular; the permutations of modules are endless so it's worth having a plan of how you plan to use it.

There are some amasing modules out there that I suggest you look into.

1) Make Noise Spectraphone
2) Eoawave Quadrantid Swarm

The Spectraphone I dont have yet but it seems to be a powerhouse.

I have the Quadrantid Swarm and is totally amasing really.

Dont cut yourself short buddy, If you buy 20 modules at once and all of them do 20 different things this is not going to be very workable instrument. I have had modules that seem awesome when you read the manual but when it comes to using them they just don't work for me.

I don't use Maths, I'd rather have those functions in separate modules. One of my favorite modules is a Doepfer decay, one stage envelope. That thing is unbelieveable, the harmonic distortion you get from it is fantastic. A low pass gate, another genius thing. Check out the XPO from Make Noise if you are looking for a vco. Eweryone seem to have Maths and Pamela and Ornament and good for them, I don't need them, atleast not now.

But also don't think I know all this, concentrate on what you want to hear, picture a sound and try to find the gear that will help you produce it.

There are people in youtube land who like to make things sound more complex than they are. Someone who actually knows what he is talking about and has a deep understanding of the subject, will break it down to the most simple and basic level.

So if manuals and menu diving are not your thing, don't torture yourself. Take those things one function at a time, one module at a time, use your ears instead of your eyes. You don't have to always understand what you are doing, that will come in time if you stick to this.

EDITED Feb 6th, 01:29

@Vegamorph Ok, I understand. Right now I only use it at home. I may take it to holidays, but that's not sure so if it happens I'll buy an output module. If I can confirm there is no problem with outputting modular level to my mixer, I'll dedicate the few HPs I have left to something else.

@GunnarWaage Thanks for your advice!

Spectraphon and Quadrantid sound nice, but they are so big compared to the space I have left in my case... I get your point about not 20 different modules all at once. Do you feel that what I plan right now may not be workable?

I'm trying to take it slow (it's hard for me, but the fact that I try to buy all my modules second hand is actually helping me), so as I get the modules progressively I may change my plans for the rest of the case.

I got Maths because it's very often described as a "must have" module, but yes, if I don't get along with it I'll sell it to get simpler modules.

In connection to the output module, if you are thinking to take multible channels to a mixer outside the rack, then youll probably want attenuators.

So 26 euros for a triple attenuator like this
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/thonk-at-at-at

The Quadrantid Swarm can be purchased in standalone or Eurorack format, so you don't have to spend rack space on it.

I love my Intellijel Audio I/O:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/intellijel-audio-i-o-2023

which can both input and output in just 10 hp. The Ochd - expansion combo rocks! Highly recommended.

In connection to the output module, if you are thinking to take multible channels to a mixer outside the rack, then youll probably want attenuators.

So 26 euros for a triple attenuator like this
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/thonk-at-at-at
-- GunnarWaage

Yeah, I planned to add some attenuators to my rack, currently the 3x MIA is my choice (but could be replaced by Frap Tools 321, still hesitating).

I love my Intellijel Audio I/O:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/intellijel-audio-i-o-2023

which can both input and output in just 10 hp. The Ochd - expansion combo rocks! Highly recommended.
-- halbroome

For now I don't see the use of a "line in" module, but thanks for the suggestion!
And thanks for confirming that the Ochd Expander is cool :)

this is why we use an output module that will adjust to the line level required
-- Sweelinck

Coming back to the "line out" module, I did a little bit more research. Space is crucial and I would want this module to take as little room as possible. Do you all think that an ALM HPO coupled with a Y cable TRS → 2x TS would do the trick for a stereo output? Or would it be better to have a proper L + R output module (Happy Nerding Isolator or Befaco Out V3, for example)?

Pams is very fluid with barely more than one nested menu in most use cases
-- Vegamorph

I also watched more "in-depth" videos about Pam's and, yeah, I must admit that it seems quite easy to get what you want. Plus the euclidian rythms part seem really nice. But (not considering its size which would make me pass on some other modules like the contact mic + looper) I'm afraid it would be partly redundant with Dice/Marbles. I know each one has unique features, but considering the number of voices I have I fear it may be overkill. What do you think?

Keep in mind with the Intellijel I/O that you can use 1/4 inch cables of the sound outputs
from the Subharmonicon / Moog32 / DFAM to input directly into your Eurorack on its input side
as 1/8 inch cables, and then out again as a whole with 1/4 inch output cables (or 1/8th if
directed into any of the semimodulars). Do you use an external
mixer unit? I found that helps immensely to bring everything together, and 1/4 cables are the way
to go.

If you ever want to use guitar pedals as an extraneous modulation, it is simple to loop through
those as well.

I love the possibilities with Eurorack!

EDITED Feb 11th, 00:56

Do you use an external mixer unit? I found that helps immensely to bring everything together, and 1/4 cables are the way
to go.

I love the possibilities with Eurorack!
-- halbroome

I currently use the mixer that was provided with the Moog Sound Studio (4 mono or 2 stereo), but I was planning on doing some in-rack mixing too (using the VCA Out on the Moog to get modular level). Why are 1/4 cables "the way to go"?

I currently use the mixer that was provided with the Moog Sound Studio (4 mono or 2 stereo), but I was planning on doing some in-rack mixing too (using the VCA Out on the Moog to get modular level). Why are 1/4 cables "the way to go"?

-- blaaank

I'm speaking of a non-modular, external mixer. Those are generally 1/4 inch cables (as are pedals, but you don't seem
interested in those, fair enough). For this simple example, 8 direct 1/4 inch inputs from all or any of your semi-modular Moog family can be mixed in with any 1/4 outputs from your separate modular racks (provided by the Intellijel or similar I/O).

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Mix8--mackie-mix8-8-channel-compact-mixer

Fairly cheap but powerful, especially if you are recording. I don't use DAWS, just Reaper through a Scarlet Focusrite to record off my mixer into the computer. Well, I did, but I upgraded my mixer so that it can go directly into a USB of my computer without
the Focusrite. Always an evolution. . . .

For about the same price, two studio monitors could easily be attached to the mixer, as well. Not sure how you listen to your patching?

EDITED Feb 11th, 18:06

Thanks for your time and your reply, I appreciate it :)

Yes, I use an external non-modular mixer: the one that was included with the Mother 32 / DFAM bundle. It has 4 inputs, so for now I'm OK with it.

When I don't output stereo balanced signal from the rack, the DFAM, Mother 32, Subharmonicon and Modular Rack each go into a mono input of the mixer.
And when I output stereo balanced signal from the rack, 2 of the semimodulars go into the mono inputs of the mixer, the remaining semimodular is routed to the modular rack, which then goes to a stereo input of the mixer. So it would be more comfortable to have an additional input in the mixer, yes.

I was looking for a cheap mixer with more inputs so the Mix8 could do the job , thanks!

Right now I don't use a DAW, nor record what I do, I plan on getting to it once I'm satisfied of the sounds I make. I already had the Scarlet Focusrite in mind for the mixer / PC connection. I digged a bit on mixers that can be plugged into the PC but the ones I found are quite expensive, so I'll wait.

As for the listening part, I use a pair of Hercules monitors :)

I currently use the mixer that was provided with the Moog Sound Studio (4 mono or 2 stereo), but I was planning on doing some in-rack mixing too (using the VCA Out on the Moog to get modular level). Why are 1/4 cables "the way to go"?

-- blaaank

K, not familiar with it; once I went modular, semi-modular seemed a bit boring, haha (although I cherish my 3 rack Moogs and Make Noise). Mixers that go into computers are expensive 8'/.

Adding an additional track doesn't mean upgrading the mixer. Excuse my love of guitar pedals with synths, but this
pedal allows you to input 3 different 1/4 cables from your semi-modulars to go as 1 track in your mixer, while being
able to "attenuate" each, to use modular speak:

https://reverb.com/item/79010042-old-blood-noise-endeavors-signal-blender-2019-2021-graphic

I actually have two Signal Blenders, so that my Moog 3-some rack can be all one mono output, and my Make Noise 3-some rack is a separate all in one mono signal to combine in a stereo send to the mixer. The great part is that you may attenuate any 1 semi-modular without affecting the others (i.e. Subharmicon too loud, but needed for internal mix, or one, two, three of the Make Noise semi-modulars needs to be less loud). Again, love the infinite combos!

[note: not endorsing any link I posted, just giving an example]

EDITED Feb 11th, 21:13

Just make sure that coming out of the vca's you go through passive attenuators. Passive means nondestructive, without amplification.

EDITED Feb 11th, 22:36

@halbroome Yeah, I confess that I do not use my semimodulars nearly as much now that I have stepped into the modular world. But they sound nice so for now I keep them, I just need to work how to properly include them in a patch.

I have nothing against guitar pedals, but the space on my desk is a bit limited so I try to keep things compact. The Signal Blender seems really useful and not too expensive though, so I may give it some thought. Thanks!

@GunnarWaage Just to be sure I understand, you're advising I make the signal go through passive attenuators if I don't use a dedicated output module? So that would be audio signal → VCA → passive att → mixer, instead of audio signal → VCA → line output module → mixer. So you're advising against using a small headphones output module (ALM HPO) and a Y 'TRS → 2x TS' cable to plug into the mixer?

Check this out: converts digital to analogue, is passive, attenuates, mixes, mults, AND is a clock divider -- all in 4 hp!

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/wavefonix-r2r-dac

EDITED Feb 13th, 13:46

This looks interesting. I'd need two of those to attenuate the 2 stereo channels of the rack, though. And if I read correctly, it makes a good combination with Wavefonix's Clock Divider, but isn't one in itself.

So if I sum it up, to reach line level between my rack and the mixer, I have 4 solutions:
- dedicated output module (like Befaco Out V3) → takes a lot of room for a set & forget module
- headphones output (ALM HPO) + Y cable to split L and R signals before the mixer → is it a valid solution? (EDIT: nope)
- passive attenuators (like Doepfer A-183-1) → out of rack possible but may be difficult to find the right amount of attenuation?
- guitar pedal → out of rack but still needs some room and power

What is your take on this, how do you attenuate your output signal?

EDITED Feb 15th, 10:38

What is your take on this

Here's my main rack (actually two, both 6U, the bottom is an L-shaped Doepfer base):

On the bottom left corner is an Erica Synths Black Stereo mixer that accepts four stereo pair 1/8 modular inputs, and
outputs to the (originally mentioned in my first post here) Intellijel Audio I/O as a final stereo mix. The Audio I/O sends the attenuated stereo signal to my external mixer. I'm like you, in that I don't have much use the for the left side of the I/O, tbh, although it's there if I want to bring in semi-modular 1/4 outputs or loop a guitar pedal --
for my other rack that does just that, I use this:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/boredbrain-music-unifx

There's probably a smaller hp solution for what I use the Audio I/O, but hey, you work with what you have!
I have fiddled around a long time to get the main rack I want, taking cable distance, work flow, and all that into account,
and am happy with this. Ideally, the ES Black mixer would be next to the Audio I/O, but I tried that and
for some reason I've forgotten it didn't work for me . . . note that I have three dedicated sub-mixer modules in
the center of the rack to feed into the ES Black mixer, with L/R signals of each taking up one of the four stereo pairs, and leaving a stereo pair vacant for whatever needs special attention. But that's overkill for your system!

You can always expand 8').

EDITED Feb 13th, 21:38

Thanks for sharing!

I'll receive the Befaco Stmix this week so between that, the Cloaks and the external mixer I should be nearly covered in terms of routing the semi-modulars and the modular signals.

I found out that headphones level is hotter that line level, so my second option with ALM HPO is not relevant. And then I found this module that does exactly what I need for 2HP so it's on my watchlist now.

And yes, I can always expand... I'll try to keep it this compact for now but it's already iching :)
I had a look at your other racks @halbroome, the Endless Processor looks like a really nice tool!