Why to NOT get into modular synthesis

Polyphony on modular/eurorack is getting easier. I have an Acid labs Chainsaw polyphonic module on order and will try it out.
That said certain styles of music like trance and house are easier with a polyphonic fixed hardware synth like a Roland Jupiter X or Prophet X since they have 10 voices, filters, arpeggio, sequencer, FX and even drums on some Roland synths included.

Polyphony on modular/eurorack is getting easier. I have an Acid labs Chainsaw polyphonic module on order and will try it out.
That said certain styles of music like trance and house are easier with a polyphonic fixed hardware synth like a Roland Jupiter X or Prophet X since they have 10 voices, filters, arpeggio, sequencer, FX and even drums on some Roland synths included.
-- sacguy71

Exactly, fixed hardware synths are certainly better for some applications, but polyphony in eurorack is not that complicated or expensive anymore. The different way of controlling them can be a bit limiting in some ways, but I would argue that that's also inspiring. And with modules like the polycinematic, we're getting closer and closer to having something very similar to fixed hardware poly synths in eurorack too.

I have an Acid labs Chainsaw polyphonic module sorta on the way. What modules would you recommend to pair up with it to get maximum benefits? I have a sequencer, function/lfos and things like that for it.

I have an Acid labs Chainsaw polyphonic module sorta on the way. What modules would you recommend to pair up with it to get maximum benefits? I have a sequencer, function/lfos and things like that for it.
-- sacguy71

This: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/feedback-106-chorus Supersaw-type waveforms + some good chorusing = DREAMY!

Thanks Lugia and I’ll check out polycinematic as well as save up for a Sinfonion.

Cool thread. Funny enough I'm currently working on #1 "preset management" for generative systems. Since Droid supports MIDI over TRS, I can pipe "settings" to a Tram8 that sends 8 0-5v CVs into my 7u; with Droid's P10 I can have a 1:1 mapping of knobs to those 8 CVs. Once I'm done with the base patch, I can use Droid's "patch" scenes to switch between presets with button press. Haha wish me luck

Well it is useful to know but it does not help those who are already in it (I guess many people) !! This happens in all fields (hobbies, professions), I give an example: I don't have great photographic bases and I buy a 5000 € nikon, my photos will not be more beautiful anyway! Perhaps a video channel is missing where ideas and examples help those who are trapped between blips, blobs and drones ....

So far I am on a no gear 2022 mission to refocus on my setups and having fun.

@Rabel what way are you trapped and not able to accomplish X eg nurave sinecore?

@t4mber I'm not talking about me, luckily I'm still free!

For me the cost financially to buy modules and space required for a studio are really the only negatives. I do mostly weird experimental stuff that modular seems to excel at compared to traditional synths and I spend all day at work on a computer so the hands on tactile feel of patching cables to make sound is very attractive therapy. Plus I was not able to travel for vacations overseas for 2.5 years so the money I would have spent on vacations was funneled to modular instead. Love it! But now I have a lot of modules and no need to buy anything for a long time until I can master my gear and make tracks I enjoy.

For me the cost financially to buy modules and space required for a studio are really the only negatives.
-- sacguy71

and they're not really negatives as such... you'd only spend the money on something else and fill the space with other crap...

Very true and I don’t regret it in fact modular is most fun I’ve had years in music stuff.

And if you like "tactile", sacguy, you could always take the big, weird, anachronistic leap into lab gear...boogie like they did in Cologne in 1956!

Seriously! Fact is, while synthesizers were supposed to "replace" all of that gear in electronic music, there's aspects of the sound that NOT having this gear causes one to miss out on. Back while I was in undergrad at MTSU, my comp prof and I toyed with the idea of dragging ourselves up to the State Warehouses in Nashville and reallocating some choice bits to the studio there. That never got done, but I did carry the idea on to my own studio and started adding that stuff from the start. And it turns out, it's just like synthesizers; I got my UBMs for $30 apiece, for example...and these days, if you even can FIND a Rohde u. Schwarz UBM, it's gonna cost! Then in the recent upgrades (still going on...I've got a dedicated VCV machine in the pipeline for installation this week), I added even MORE of that sound with the addition of a buttload of snags from eBay. It's easier and easier to find all of the "old" synths these days, especially as redone module versions, but test gear still has that "mystery" to it and isn't easy to find...or, quite often, to make sense of.

For me the cost financially to buy modules and space required for a studio are really the only negatives. I do mostly weird experimental stuff that modular seems to excel at compared to traditional synths and I spend all day at work on a computer so the hands on tactile feel of patching cables to make sound is very attractive therapy. Plus I was not able to travel for vacations overseas for 2.5 years so the money I would have spent on vacations was funneled to modular instead. Love it! But now I have a lot of modules and no need to buy anything for a long time until I can master my gear and make tracks I enjoy.
-- sacguy71
I'm in the peculiar situation where I travelled a lot in the past, but I'm not anymore because I have a fairly young family. And I feel the disappearing money more in my shame about it than in my wallet. Which is good, because it makes me rethink every purchase 17 times so I don't make impulse purchases. It also gives me time to really get to know the new modules before I add even more.

Still, I've arrived at the point where space is becoming an issue. I wanted to start small but thanks to Jim's advice, I got an Intellijel 7U. It was a great idea at the time, so thanks again. And now it's nearly full. I usually take it down when my wife needs to use the studio to work from home. But if I should get a second 7U, I'd very much want to install it permanently somewhere, which means rethinking the room... again!

Another disadvantage is that the simplest things can become obsessive. Take patch cables. I have several varieties, which is OK. But I start fretting about how this one is way too flexible, and that one isn't flexible enough. These are way too long, but those are much too short to really route them well. The fit in this module isn't great, but the others don't really do it better. It's hell because there's incredible choice about everything. You ever looked at screws for your modules? Agh! Really! Who has this as a hobby anyway!?

I'm in the peculiar situation where I travelled a lot in the past, but I'm not anymore because I have a fairly young family. And I feel the disappearing money more in my shame about it than in my wallet. Which is good, because it makes me rethink every purchase 17 times so I don't make impulse purchases. It also gives me time to really get to know the new modules before I add even more.

but the money hasn't disappeared - it's embedded in a synthesizer... ok so some has disappeared, but it's still actually worth some cash if you decided to sell it tomorrow you'd get a decent chhunk of it back and the rest you have enjoyed - can't get money back from the memories of the travel you used to spend the money on!!!

Still, I've arrived at the point where space is becoming an issue. I wanted to start small but thanks to Jim's advice, I got an Intellijel 7U. It was a great idea at the time, so thanks again. And now it's nearly full. I usually take it down when my wife needs to use the studio to work from home. But if I should get a second 7U, I'd very much want to install it permanently somewhere, which means rethinking the room... again!

hahaha...

7u 104hp IS small - I have about 1800hp (not all filled) and sacguy77 has a decent sized rack too

screw them to the wall? put a desk in the living room/attic/cellar for the wife to work at?

Another disadvantage is that the simplest things can become obsessive. Take patch cables. I have several varieties, which is OK. But I start fretting about how this one is way too flexible, and that one isn't flexible enough. These are way too long, but those are much too short to really route them well. The fit in this module isn't great, but the others don't really do it better. It's hell because there's incredible choice about everything. You ever looked at screws for your modules? Agh! Really! Who has this as a hobby anyway!?

-- Arrandan

I have no idea how many patch cables (I lost count at 300) or types of them I have...

screws - just get knurlies, they're great

Another disadvantage is that the simplest things can become obsessive. Take patch cables. I have several varieties, which is OK. But I start fretting about how this one is way too flexible, and that one isn't flexible enough. These are way too long, but those are much too short to really route them well. The fit in this module isn't great, but the others don't really do it better. It's hell because there's incredible choice about everything. You ever looked at screws for your modules? Agh! Really! Who has this as a hobby anyway!?
-- Arrandan

Heh...this is why those of us who went through the mindwrench that is a typical "conservatory-type" musical training eventually learn that you have to discipline your mind to ignore things like that. My studio has HUGE jackfields for all of the routing to/from/around the Soundcraft FIVE here; as for an actual count of patchpoints, I think I gave up counting all of that once or twice before. "A lot" seems more correct. But all I worry about with those, the modular "sandbox" gear, and so on is that I've got things hooked up right...and everything else becomes superfluous. And this is with several different plug formats, to boot: the lab gear is all set up for RCA patching, the big bays all do 1/4", the majority of the modular stuff does the 3.5mm thing, and then the Mescaline, AE, and Bastl toys all work with pinwires, as does my Frederick Haer quad window comparator (except for the few BNCs on it that have RCA adapters, that is).

If I worried about minutiae like that, I'd probably not get any work done. Just learn to step back from the gear when the mind starts to wander, and toy with the same idea as a "thought experiment" until you get focused again. Composition's pretty kickass when you find yourself whipping tracks out at a fever pitch...but it takes quite some time to get to that point. Even so, over time you find that the superfluous shit becomes less distracting as your musical output grows. Equipment's one thing, but never underestimate the power of your own brain to sort things out.

Nice points, Lugia.

Personally, starting semi-modular (Minibrute 2s & Neutron) has been the best way to go. While I now have built up a collection of modules, the semi modulars continue to inspire and have given me a solid base to explore and learn whilst saving money.

Productivity wise, I find that I have become better at finishing tracks since going modular. Recently I have been working on a patch during the week, working out the musical paths in the patch, and then committing to recording in the weekend. Horses for courses of course.

Thanks again for your post. :)

can't get money back from the memories of the travel you used to spend the money on!!!

Kind of correct and I don't want to argue - but I can tell you my very extensive travel has shaped me as a person, which is obviously hard to put into monetary terms. Music is doing that, too, actually.

7u 104hp IS small - I have about 1800hp (not all filled) and sacguy77 has a decent sized rack too

Haha, I know! I'm so much behind but at this rate (full 7U 104hp in 4 months) I'll catch up with you in 3 years

screw them to the wall? put a desk in the living room/attic/cellar for the wife to work at?

I could box the Argon 8X that I'm not really using and set them up there. And anyway - room arrangements aren't done yet here. Heck, we don't even have doors yet!

I have no idea how many patch cables (I lost count at 300) or types of them I have...
screws - just get knurlies, they're great
-- JimHowell1970

This was very firmly tongue in cheek, of course. I have knurlies, too. Well worth the money. As for patch cables - if I would allow it to enter my mind, it would drive me crazy. There's such a variety in how they feel, bend, enter the jacks, ... I rather marvel at it in awe at how diverse this crazy hobby is rather than fret about it.

If I worried about minutiae like that, I'd probably not get any work done. Just learn to step back from the gear when the mind starts to wander, and toy with the same idea as a "thought experiment" until you get focused again. Composition's pretty kickass when you find yourself whipping tracks out at a fever pitch...but it takes quite some time to get to that point. Even so, over time you find that the superfluous shit becomes less distracting as your musical output grows. Equipment's one thing, but never underestimate the power of your own brain to sort things out.
-- Lugia

I must have been very convincing :-) I thought this was a sarcastic thread, as we all clearly love modular, and decided to join in!

I'm pretty happy with my rate of working. I've been having pretty complex ideas for sounds and I find that I can patch them fairly quickly, building up the track as I go along. Sometimes, my youngest son is scared in bed and wants somebody to lay down with him. I use that time to work out patches or song structure.

I have a thread with a few other people on gearspace where we exchange new tracks every day, which helps keep up the tempo. Modular is the best thing that happened to me in music.

I am in an online modular group and we have a weekly modular music challenge that has me focused on mastering my gear. Most of the tracks that I produce are too far out there to be music but over time, my skills develop and I come up with some good tunes. I am really enjoying using my WMD Metron and WMD percussion modules to create beats lately and the Rossum Trident with Mob of Emus into my Rossum Morpheus Z Plane filter sounds incredible! I do find Hertz Donut a tricky beast to sound musical but with the Stillson Hammer (SH) thru the 1v/oct connection to cv on the SH that gets me more results. I clock the WMD Metron to the Stillson Hammer so melody and drums are in sync. All in all, endless fun!

Most of the tracks that I produce are too far out there to be music but over time, my skills develop and I come up with some good tunes.
-- sacguy71

I thought my music was too far out there until I went to a workshop with 8 other modular gearheads and heard what they were up to
Edit: fixed the quote

EDITED Jul 9th 2022, 10:07

Same here well quite a few folks are talented and make cool beats on their modulars. Mastering my sequencers and tools has been important for me so I can get decent beats and patterns cooking and then adjust the rest.

I could box the Argon 8X that I'm not really using and set them up there. And anyway - room arrangements aren't done yet here. Heck, we don't even have doors yet!
-- Arrandan

Ooooo...don't be slammin' on that Argon8! I've got one...and it's like a bottomless pit as far as sonic capabilities! Sort of a very different take on VA synths...it gets lumped in with them, but this has way more going on than some Roland "ACB" synth. It's actually closer in character to the Access Virus...on 'roids!

Ooooo...don't be slammin' on that Argon8! I've got one...and it's like a bottomless pit as far as sonic capabilities! Sort of a very different take on VA synths...it gets lumped in with them, but this has way more going on than some Roland "ACB" synth. It's actually closer in character to the Access Virus...on 'roids!

-- Lugia

I know! I'm not slamming it, I love it to bits. The VA one is the Cobalt - Argon is the wavetable. And it's got some really great wavetables at that, and good effects too. I bought it to try and learn the keyboard but never got anywhere with that. I'm spending all my waking hours (well, mostly) on my modular nowadays. I need to find a way to integrate the Argon. Should be possible with the Oxi over midi, then Argon out to my ES-9...

I know! I'm not slamming it, I love it to bits. The VA one is the Cobalt - Argon is the wavetable.

-- Arrandan

Yep, but I keep calling it that because, unlike the PPG Wave 2.3 I had, I can get at pretty much ALL parameters from the panel. The PPG always felt a bit like it had something to hide, control-wise...which often required the Waveterm B to get to, and it just got too irritating. Comparatively, the Argon 8 feels like I'm driving my JP-6...but it's not the JP-6.

Just a good example of how a "redux" can arrive at results that go WAY beyond the capabilities of the original as long as the new company gets what needs fixing AND how to fix it.

And for me finding the sequencers that mesh well with me has been part of the fun and challenge. So far I’m liking the combo of the Eloquencer with Erica Synths Black Sequencer with a WMD Performance mixer, utilities and few drum modules with a couple voices for bass and melodic stabs.

For me as a sound designer and sound explorer, I was tired of working ITB all the time with a laptop and VST plugins.
Friends that I jam with all had large modulars and that exposure peaked my curiosity five years ago. I was too broke at the time to buy into eurorack but saved up over time and started with a small Doepfer modular system. Other than time and cost, really no issue with modular world. I do appreciate the faster and easier workflow now with hardware synths like my Elektron boxes that let me save patterns and kits and easier recall for performances in small hardware box but I built a few small modular 4u-7u cases that have good sequencer/mixer and drum machine to take on the go.

"twistenknobs und blinkenlichts" I'm dead lol. Great post Lugia. When I talk to traditional instrumentalists, that seems to be the main idea they hold on this whole thing. It's downright satisfying when they look at me like I'm an alien after I start sperging out on the technical stuff. "Oh, so you're not in it for the pretty lights?" "If the lights serve no purpose I'd rather not have them". Devices with no control over the superfluous lights are a sensory nightmare lol

I'm primarily a guitar/bass player. But I've also had several different synthesizers and sequencers over the years, and eventually got seduced by eurorack modular within the past year. So, I do consider myself a newbie around here. Anyway... Really enjoyed this discussion and it got me thinking...

Philosophically, I have always felt that the SONG was king. And, I know lots of folks feel the same. IOW, it could be a crap recording played on a $100 pawn shop guitar. As long as it's a good song, it will still be a good song. Likewise, playing a weak, uninspired song on a $5K Hummingbird is never going to make it a good song. So, good music, a good song isn't ultimately about the gear.

But, I start to wrestle a little bit with that idea when it comes to modular synths. Especially as someone who is still learning some of the basics, it often feels like the gear itself actually has a huge influence on the music that comes out. Add a new module to the rack and it can inspire new sounds you never imagined. Realize a new way to patch things up and the gear is now a major part of the inspiration for the next awesome new song that you create. It actually is about the gear.

I'm not saying it's good or bad. I just think it's interesting. Maybe a little bit of a paradox.

That's true, but if we compare modular synths to an instrument, it's like you have to build your guitar every time before you start composing. Surely for each song you had in mind, you would choose one type of wood or another, more or less strings, etc... This is the theme, you have a sound in mind, and you are looking for how to achieve and you end up acquiring new gear.
There are sounds that can be achieved with your current equipment, but especially at the beginning, there are sounds that you can only get with a specific setup.

as much as I love my eurorack gear, for serious stuff in limited time, I fire up my Virus TI2 keyboard synth that has incredible sound and workflow. Easy to run 16 multi timbral polyphonic dozens of voices with many types of synthesis models from wave table to granular and tons of filter types and effects. Yes, it is digital but does polyphony well. I also love to jam on my Oberheim OB X8 if I want analog polyphony at simple keyboard level. Met a pro level pianist who wants me to teach her how to use Nord piano synthesizers and while I am not a keys player I do know synthesis.

I don't agree with much in this post but then I usually don't agree with anyone about anything in connection with music.

I think this is not such a big deal, if someone wants to try playing the electric guitar he goes out and buys one. Then he/she ends up selling it, end of story, or he becomes someone who likes to play the guitar. A basic modular costs something similar to a basic guitar and amp. Im not going to tell someone not to buy a guitar and amp. Sure a modular synth is not for eweryone, so my suggestion is get one, if you don't like it, sell it.

By the way my modular does not replace my awesome polysynths, Omnisphere for example, Pigments, Cobalt ect. Or my computer, I think people who don't like using computers in music production or sound design are living in the stoneage seriously;)

EDITED Mar 29th, 00:54

For serious polyphony, I reach first for my Access Virus TI2 keyboard hardware synth that gets me the best all around results quickly with dozens of voices, effects and filters. Sort of like modular in a box. I do have a couple of eurorack polyphony modules but getting them patched and sequenced to make lovely trance chords is sort of a pain and far more of a rabbit hole challenge to sequence in modular than my Virus. You still need a good complex sequencer like Vector 512 and a filter bank, polyphonic eurorack module(s) and mixer.