Best stereo mixer module to communicate with DAW?

Hi all, loving my eurorack, but I get a bit lost on the most practical way to sync it to my DAW. I currently have an Intellijel Mixup going out to my audio interface (RME Fireface UFX) into Ableton or Cubase, but I want to be able to record all my sounds individually, so what do I need? It needs to be in the eurorack form. Maybe an Expert Sleepers ES-3? Also want to use my iPad or keystep. Please help. I’m stuck!

Since your audio interface has many channels maybe you want to mix in the box? In which case rather than a mixer I think you just need a bunch of output modules like the Happy Nerding Isolator or similar. (Or the really low budget option : a few passive attenuators and a bunch small-to-big jack cables)

You're barking up the wrong tree here. The solution isn't in the modular...it'll be via the Fireface. Since that thing can do piles of channels simultaneously, what you REALLY need here is a DC-coupled expander of some cheap sort. Connect it to the ADAT Lightpipe connection (you don't need high sample rates for CV/gate/trig work), and that's that! Just make sure that you get proper DC-coupled hardware for that, and you're golden. With that PLUS the Fireface, you'll have ample audio I/O on that device itself, and all of your control signaling will be split from the audio I/O, which makes things make more sense.

EDITED Dec 30th 2020, 03:36

Ok Lugia. I wish I could get my head around what you’re saying, I’m really trying, but with little success! Do you mean an ES3? Can you give me any examples?
The-erc: I think I get what you’re saying, but I also want to sync in time with my DAW. In other words, click record on Ableton and eurorack starts playing?
Thanks guys. To a newbie, and not technically savvy, it’s so hard to get your head around all this so that you’re not wasting money on something you potentially already have.

Without knowing more about your modular setup it's hard to give useful suggestions of how to sync it to Ableton. How do you normally control it?

If you just need a clock output from the DAW, trying making an audio click track in Ableton and sending that to the modular. It might work!

@clivevass I'm not actually sure the ES-3 solves your problem for you as * I believe * it's output only, but an ES-9 should do the trick and it's what I use for this.

My modular setup is quite simple: I use intellijel Mixup as my mix out, into my fireface ufx channel 1&2. Press record on Ableton, then press play on the modular, and that’s it! I would like to record every sound from my modular onto a separate channel simultaneously in Ableton so I can apply eq etc...and be able to hit record in Ableton and eurorack starts and is synced to the tempo. I think the ES9 will do this, but would that be overkill if I have ADAT on my audio interface? Am I just missing one thing or several bits of hardware. Thanks for the replies :)

EDITED Dec 30th 2020, 17:17

I'm not familiar with ADAT so I can't speak to that, I just don't think the ES-3 takes input from the modular (but you should check and make sure I'm not misreading things).

Press record on Ableton, then press play on the modular, and that’s it!
-- clivevass

So when you "press play on the modular" which module are you actually pressing play on? In my set up that button is on Pamela's New Workout, which also has Clock and Run inputs which can be used to control it externally. If I wanted to control it from my computer, lacking DC-coupled outputs which as Lugia suggested is surely The Right Thing, I would just send a click track to that clock input. It would probably need some fiddling to work but people used to use the 808 rimshot to sync old analogue gear, and I can't imagine that new gear is worse!

I never do this -- Pam is always the master clock for me. You could also try it this way. Make Ableton follow the master clock from the modular, assuming your modular brain can send clock (over MIDI perhaps?).

Ok Lugia. I wish I could get my head around what you’re saying, I’m really trying, but with little success! Do you mean an ES3? Can you give me any examples?
-- clivevass

OK...on the back of the Fireface, you'll see some lightpipe ports (probably with little rubber covers to keep crap out of the optical path), probably labelled ADAT. That's where you'd connect any OTHER interface that ALSO has the same ports. So, once you've got the Fireface AND the inexpensive, used, and (for audio) "obsolete" DC-coupled interface you snagged on Reverb or eBay, you'd hook 'em up with a pair of lightpipe cables. There might be a sync lockup issue, but checking the Fireface's docs should help with that. Once the interfaces are happy and talking to each other (you should see the new I/O ports in the Fireface's control/routing app...when you do, everything's cool), you can assign the new ADAT ports to CV Tools' use.

Nope, no ES-3. Just do a little scrounging. and you can beat the cost on that thing. FYI, this IS how you'd hook the ES-3 up as well...but we're going "cheap-n-dirty" here, getting much the same result for about 1/3rd the price.

Nope, no ES-3. Just do a little scrounging. and you can beat the cost on that thing. FYI, this IS how you'd hook the ES-3 up as well...but we're going "cheap-n-dirty" here, getting much the same result for about 1/3rd the price.
-- Lugia

Ok thanks Lugia, maybe another silly question but, does that mean I would need a load of 1/4 to 1/8 cables? Also if I didn’t want to go down the “cheap-n-dirty” route, would an ES8 or ES3+6 do the job? Just trying to understand ALL the options :)

EDITED Jan 1st 2021, 10:17

Hi there and happy new year!

I recently am dealing with this issue since I want to record my modular to Ableton DAW and remix for a future album. I use a Keith McMillen K-mix which supposedly has a way to do this direct to PC via USB but alas that did not work. SO, what I had to do was send the output from modular mixer to my Babyface RME and get Ableton to recognize the audio and then I was able to record.

My test run using the VCA patch from defragmenteur earlier:

I do have a Doepfer A190 in another case but this method is way easier for me plus no need to take up precious HP for another expensive MIDI to USB to CV module. However, the Expert Sleepers ES-9 appears to be the way to go direct to a laptop or ipad to record into Ableton and receive CV and clocks from a DAW to modular. I will probably pick up this module later next year or get another better mixer like the Roland MX-1 for recording all my synthesizers and modular to a DAW.

Another option is the 4ms WAV Recorder Eurorack Module that lets you record modules directly to an micro SD card and use later.

EDITED Jan 2nd 2021, 03:11

Nope, no ES-3. Just do a little scrounging. and you can beat the cost on that thing. FYI, this IS how you'd hook the ES-3 up as well...but we're going "cheap-n-dirty" here, getting much the same result for about 1/3rd the price.
-- Lugia

Ok thanks Lugia, maybe another silly question but, does that mean I would need a load of 1/4 to 1/8 cables? Also if I didn’t want to go down the “cheap-n-dirty” route, would an ES8 or ES3+6 do the job? Just trying to understand ALL the options :)
-- clivevass

Probably does mean that, yes. But then, I'd have to ask: if you're working with modular synths, why don't you have a pile of these cables already?

Now, as for the Expert Sleepers modules vs. a DC-coupled interface, well...they're the same thing, actually. In fact, with the ES-3, 8 and so on, the same lightpipe hookup method would apply. Where the difference is in in PRICE...

Just now, I did a swing through Reverb, looking at the MOTU 828s...first version and the mkii (like my own). The earliest 828 can do this, too...it's also DC-coupled. But where the several used MOTUs I saw were in a $100-150 range, the ES-3 mkiv streets at $239. And if you consider an ES-8, that's $475. And actually, the ES-8 is closer to what the MOTU interfaces offer, since the ES-3 is output-only, and both the ES-8 and MOTU method allow signals from the modular to be sent back into the DAW, and these could range from using your modular clock as the DAW's master to full-on stereo (or more) audio recording directly from the modular's outputs.

@Lugia,

I had the best success dumping audio from my modular mixer to my audio interface and recording into Ableton quickly and easily after some setup. Now I can quickly record my patches from modular and edit later in the DAW. So, would spending the money on an Expert Sleepers ES-9 or a 4ms wav recorder module be worth it? Since I have my audio interface and computer right next to my modular systems, it is not difficult to record now direct.

If you've got enough channels in the converter to support your audio AND CV/gate/trig needs, then yeah...just go with that. But if you're starting to run out, then the ES-9 is a possible choice...as would be a cheap ADAT Lightpipe-capable DC-coupled interface added to the existing one. It really depends on how much $$$ you've got to spend.

Agree with you @Lugia,

I have enough channels between my eurorack mixer and audio interface to dump but long term I will need something with more inputs like the MOTU audio interface that can take 8 inputs from my modular system so I can split up tracks and be able to cleanly remix in the DAW. That and an ES9 would be ace for me. If I ever perform live with my modular post-COVID, something quick and easy like a Zoom recorder or 4ms wav recorder would be a simple way to capture live performances for later import to a PC and DAW.

Sure is...I actually use a TASCAM field recorder for just that purpose (plus...well, field recording), specifically a DR-680 mkii. It's capable of eight tracks (6 individual + a stereo pair), which is useful live because I can put backgrounds for a show on the stereo pair, then use the other six tracks for live recording and any other prerecorded bits that need to be on their own.

Nice Lugia,

I need to check out those Tascam recorder units. In the short term, I have basic recording of the modular covered but long term will need a better solution. I was disappointed to find out that I could not get the USB of my Keith McMillen K-mix unit to be recognized by Ableton DAW as a plugin or external instrument. That would have been nice as it is supposed to already have an audio interface built in.

That's odd...I'd suggest checking with both KMM and Ableton on this, since it seems to me that this device is perfect for Ableton work. Did you check to see if it'll play nice with the native ASIO driver?

Hi Lugia,

Yeah I need to open a support ticket with KMM why Ableton cannot recognize the K-Mix via USB connection when it should. I will probably do that this week as time permits. I was troubleshooting different options to determine the weak link in the recording chain. At least for now I can dump audio from the modulars to my RME Babyface and record that way so all good in the short term. I tried a bunch of driver ASIO settings on Mac OS X and it would not recognize the mixer. It did recognize my RME Babyface and my A190 USB to MIDI CV module.

This actually sounds a bit familiar. In the early iterations of Live 10.x, I was constantly having problems with my Push2 and Live deciding to not talk to each other over USB. This was something that appears to have been addressed in a later 10.x update, though...but I can't help but think that these are related somehow.

I probably need to upgrade my Ableton and patches and drivers for the K-mix. I will see what Ableton and KMM support advice for Mac OS X. Funny a few years ago, I never would have imagined diving into modular gear. Now here I am with tons of Eurorack but love it. Especially when record to a DAW and use with other synths it shines.