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In my current rack, which is a half full Intellijel 7U, I have an enormous amount of VCAs and mixers. Take a look below. A summary:

• Veils. It's just a great and very flexible VCA. You get control over linear/exponential and the offset. In exponential mode, it can give you lots and lots of gain. It also acts as a mixer.
• Doepfer octuple VCA. Just linear, no relative volumes, but for sheer VCA per HP, it's unbeatable. Works great e.g. for stereo (same envelope via multiple to two channels) or beats made out of noise (summed into one).
• Quadratt. I sometimes feel like I need a second one of these. It can do bipolar, e.g. inverse an envelope for ducking, and it acts as a mixer.
• Ladik stereo mixer. I used to use this a lot before I got the ES-9. Output went to the Befaco out and then to my speakers. Nowadays, I mix in my iPad and the mix goes back to the ES-9, then out to the speakers. Still, I don’t regret having this extra mixer.

Other utilities? On my shortlist are the Divkid Rnd step, Intellijel Shifty, an FSR, Pamela's, Joranalogue's Select 2 and Compare 2, etc. Pamela+Rnd Step for S&H for randomisation, but also to reduce the sample rate of something. I'm actually also considering the Joranalogue Orbit 3 as a source of chaos. Even though it's not really a utility, it can serve as a many things: VCO, LFO or modulation source, …

Yes, absolutely. You have a lot of sound sources but what are you going to do with them? I don't know what those Moogs are capable of, but vcas are always good. Mixers, lfos, envelopes,... And watch out with the 2hp modules - they are extremely small! I have one module with such a small knob and it's very difficult to use. And on mine, there's plenty of space around it! You have two next to each other...

Nice one! It starts with a sound that I have also been using, but then changes into this bleepy-bloopy jungley thing that at once is quite typical for trackers, yet not cliche. Quite entertaining to listen to!

There is an interesting discussion about having a musical vision on gearspace which got me thinking (I hope it's ok to cross-post to other forums). I created this track about a breakdown I had 10 years ago, when I was stuck and saw no way out. It's the first time I started with the vision first and applied musical ideas to convey it. Listening back after a good night's rest, I can find several issues. But it conveys what I wanted, which isn't bad for a one-track-per-day track. Patch info in the video description with a summary in the subtitles.

Very nice indeed. Very atmospheric. The high hats are a bit sharp on my speakers, but I'm really nitpicking!

yes, but isn't velocity cv just on the pitched sequencer channels - I thought you wanted it on the trigger sequencer outputs - ie how hard you hit a drum - I don't often use the BSP these days - although I may start again soon when I have a couple more percussion modules...

-- JimHowell1970

Yes, that's correct. The 8 drumpads are trigger only. So for the two pitched sequencer tracks, you can adjust another parameter in addition to trigger+V/Oct, which is what I did. I guess if I'm really desperate and I know a sequencer + drum part are running together, I can use the sequencer velocity to tweak something in the drum line. But that's probably my 3-track C=64 tracker mentality coming up again!

Hi Jim,

About those BSP velocity sensitive buttons...

not via the trigger outs they're not - via midi they are I guess - never used mine other than via cv though

I've just tested this. The velo CV output works just fine. It outputs a very wide range between velo 0 and vel0 127. I've not metered it but I'm guessing 0-10V. When I pass it through an attenuator, it works nicely to control effects. For example, in Plaits in the granular sawtooth mode, I use it to control the spread of the frequencies of the sawtooth. The harder I punch the button, the more distorted it sounds. If you haven't yet, try it out - it's a nice way to control an effect per step with the BSP.

Honestly, I don't think you'll save a lot. If you buy the rails themselves with a threaded strip on a site like Schneidersladen, you'll pay between €14-15 for a 19" (so €28-30 for top and bottom). If, on the other hand, you buy 12U rack strips for 19", it will set you back €12 but you will still need to figure out how to mount your modules in it. For that €15, just go for real Eurorack rails and threaded strips.

I think Jim is onto something when he says to skip the 1U. I have one but it has only 2 multis and a VCA in it. Choice is much more limited. If you want to limit expense, go for 6U so you get sufficient space with just 4 rack rails.

While I haven't used it myself, I've seen Frap Tools 321 advised to turn Pam's output into bipolar. You can shift the output by a DC value, so lowering it below zero, and if necessary add amplification up to 2x. I have a similar problem with Zadar, which generates positive-only values but can also be used as an LFO. I just take it into account that it's 0-10V instead of -5 - +5V.

I combine the Zadar with a Veils VCA. Zadar isn't very menu-divey if you just want envelopes. If you want to use the CV inputs or set it to repeat or LFO, yes, but the menus are not very deep at all. I'm not using the expander myself. For envelopes, well, there's so many of them that it means quite some button turning before you find what you want. But that's just choice for you.

Veils is a very good, basic VCA. I sometimes move away from purely linear towards exponential (not all the way, though) to achieve clipping on the envelope. It's a simple way to add some distortion to your signal already before sending it to filters/fx. The two modules are side to side in my rack and all Zadar outs are permanently plugged into the Veils CV ins. It's a great combo :-)

No issues here on Firefox/macos!

Hi Peter,

I'm Peter too :-)

I don't think that Plaits & bOSC is a limiting setup. bOSC alone has 4 outputs that you can route through different paths, e.g. filters, wave-folders, effects in combination with a envelope+VCA per path that is sequenced differently, etc... Plaits has endless possibilities for modulation (models, parameters...) that you can work with and also two different outputs that you could treat differently. There's a lot of variation that you can squeeze out of these two oscillators...

Yes, you're right and re-reading what I wrote, it doesn't entirely convey correctly how I feel about it. bOSC is a great analog module, which is precisely what I wanted. I'm very happy with it. Plaits, however, seems like a gateway module. It introduces several types of synthesis but it's a bit limited in all of them. For example, the granular mode is 8 sawtooths, period. I like it and I use it a lot, but granular based on samples is much more powerful. It's that sense of exploring and finding the limits that I meant.

• One LFO only, but with multiple outputs. Also, I use Zadar as an LFO from time to time. It's unipolar, but hey, set the start point at the bottom instead of in the middle and it works just fine. Great to have complex LFOs when I want them! Ochd sounds nice, but it's not on my urgent list.

Ochd is overpriced in my view, but I haven't regretted buying it. It is in 95% of my patches. It is simple, easy to use and doesn't take up much space. The cost/benefit ratio is top...

• Next up will be a Joranalogue Select 2 S/T&H and a Pamela to clock it. There's a random CV on the Static that I can use with this. Pamela will definitely be a great addition in the long run.

Pamela was also among the first 5 modules I bought. It's also one of the modules that gets a lot of usage. I started relatively simple, using it as a clock divider and euclidean pattern generator. As I learned about modular synths I've found many other ways to use it. Actually, if you use the stepped random, that's exactly what you get with noise + S&H, plus you'll have a lot of ways to control and manipulate it. Pam will grow with you. You can't go wrong with Pam's...

I've actually changed my plans. Instead of the Joranalogue Select 2, I am considering the Intellijel Shifty. 4 S&H that can be shifted, but if you tell it to use just 1, then it's a plain S&H. Flexible in a different way than the Joranalogue. And for modulation (and also as an extra sound source), I'm eyeing the Joranalogue Orbit 3. I'm pretty much into fractals and mathematical chaos, so I really appreciate the patterns that come out of that one. It should work as a very interesting LFO-type modulator. As for PAM - I may hold off and just use Zadar with a pulse for the clock for now. I'm still sequencing with my BeatStep Pro and doing more sequencing in the modular (PAM - Euclidean etc) is not on the plans now. I'm getting a Teensy to try out a headless Dirtywave M8 to explore more in that direction.

Apply the first sentence to your Plaits & bOSC combo...

Heh :-) I've been doing that for the last almost 4 weeks on my one-track-per-day project. I noticed I was tending towards all saws and synthwave, so I moved away from that again with Plaits' FM mode for my track of 6 April. Yeah, there's a lot of live&learn in the bOSC-Plaits combo, but I want more!

As you already have two Doepfer modules: I would recommend the Doepfer A-106-5 SEM filter. Sounds fantastic, from creamy to dirty to aggressive, has LP, HP, BP... incredible value for money!

I'll check it out! Thanks for the tip!

Hi Geoff,

Nice that you already have the ADAT parts. We use it in the office for parts of our audio (broadcast company) but for music I'm so humble to stay with USB and jacks :-) Now you mention the shortage of ES-9 it made me double-check because I want to order one for myself. Fortunately, it's in stock in one of my favorite shops.

I'm also looking at integrating external equipment with modular (who isn't?). The core will be my iPad Pro. With AUM and the multitrack recorder, it's quite powerful. I just bought a Teensy to set up a headless Dirtywave M8. Teensy is via USB, but the M8 itself is MIDI and audio jacks. The ES-9 would then be key to get the audio in, but I'd still need to find a way to sync clocks and start/stop. No PC, because that turns everything into a complicated mess. I've got lots to explore, but I'm doing it step by step. I also just started recording video for my YouTube channel, so I'm already doing everything at once.

As for Disting and similar modules (looking at you O&C), I stay away from them. It's true - you can turn them into anything. But I find that confusing. A VCO is a VCO and not a clock, in my setup. But they exist for good reason, so spend your time to get to know it well because there's plenty in it!

Hi Geoff,

It would make things easier if you can post a link to your rack here on ModularGrid. That way, we can click on it and review it easily.

Do you have ADAT on your PC? The ES-3/6 combo is very specific. Most people connect to a PC with an ES-9 as it provides USB. For MIDI, MutantBrain is a popular option as it provides more connectivity pretty cheaply. When you add the CVx to the uMIDI, you end up more expensive.

Ears is discontinued so hurry to find stock if you really need it!

If you don't know, Zadar can be a VCO
-- SamuelGeai

Hi Samuel,

Great tip! I remember reading about it. It's a bit fiddly though, trying to get the actual V/OCt working. That's why so far, I've refrained from using it as a sound source. But I might have a go at it tonight. I am already using Zadar as an LFO, where the speed is less crucial.

Hi Brewster,

I see that you have 4 drum voices and an oscillator. I guess 4 drums gives you a lot of choice but if you don't already know these modules, I would suggest you start with less. Perhaps you aren't new to modular and you know exactly what you'll get. But if you don't, it makes sense to start small and to really get to know what you have in your rack. After all, the actual modules themselves are just part of the story. It's the patching that makes everything possible. And to make the most of that patching, you need utility modules, like Jim's signature says.

I have the Rample instead of the Erica Sample Drum. If you're not planning to sample while playing, the Rample is cheaper. I haven't done an in-depth comparison, but the Erica seems to be mainly a player anyway. I really like the Rample as it gives me 4 outputs in the same 14HP as the Erica, which does 2. The default sample set is already quite extensive. Obviously, you can add your own to the SD card. The Rample also has a built-in mixer.

Are you planning to control other gear via MIDI? I saw you added the MIDI expander to Pamela. I see you also added an extra quad-VCA. That's always useful. If you look at my current rack you will see I have 4 sound sources (Rample drums, noise, bOSC analog and Plaits) but plenty of VCAs + a stereo mixer. A mixing quad-VCA like your Intellijel or my Veils works very nicely with Zadar. Zadar is also very useful with a dumb VCA like my octuple Doepfer, as you can set the max voltage in Zadar, which allows a kind of mixing anyway. I never regretted getting plenty of VCAs (I actually added the octuple Doepfer afterwards with the Doepfer decay for noise). The saying that you can never get too many VCAs is really quite true.

You asked for a flow path of modules. I tried that, indeed. My envelopes are mostly left, then the VCAs, then the sources. Finally, filter/effects are right and so is the mixer/out. But in modular, anything is possible. I have already made a patch where I VCAd a sound source with a Zadar envelope, then sent it to FX Aid, then brought its L+R outs back to Veils for yet another Zadar envelope (multi'd because I wanted the same envelope on L+R). So you can try out an order that you think will mostly work, but you'll find that there will always be exceptions.

Very interesting discussion and it's giving me several ideas for my next filter!

As a kind of tangential question to this thread, I wonder what people consider their favorite "budget" VCFs to be, VCFs for under $200 that hit above their pricepoint in your opinion.
-- sparrowbred

I have the Feedback Lo-Fusion for around €100 which is very nice for a basic LP. It has a nice warm sound to it, which is what I wanted. I thought I'd save some money getting just an LP, but I miss a HP, of course. Getting the Hi-Fusion as well would still be quite cheap, but it starts eating up HP room. Still, if budget is important, you should check it out.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned [Steve's MS-22[(https://www.modulargrid.net/e/threetom-modular-steve-s-ms-22) yet. I mailed Tom, the creator, and he's obviously extremely dedicated to producing quality with a personal touch. Look it up on YouTube, it sounds great. Just don't add too many orders to the queue, will you? I'm still planning to order one myself in the coming months ;-)

Hi,

I'd like to share some experiences now that I'm one month into modular. Before ordering, I spent 3-4 weeks researching and having the discussion above. I then moved to VCV Rack to try out the ideas before commiting to the purchase. It was very much worth the time and the effort. Looking back, I really didn't know what I was getting into

This is my current rack. The Melotus Versio is on the side because it's been ordered but hasn't arrived yet.

Some thoughts on what I built.

• I have three mixers. Actually, four, if you count the octuple Doepfer VCA, which can do summing as well. Just today, I was using 4 channels of Veils with 3 channels of Quadratt and three of the Ladik. The octuple Doepfer is very useful when I use noise for beats. As Zadar allows me to lower the voltage, I can do attenuation in there anyway. So yes, more VCAs are better.
• I have only two possibly melodic sources: Plaits and the bOSC. I absolutely love both of them, but it's limiting. I'm eyeing a Klavis Twin Waves mkii next.
• I spent a bit more money on envelopes and drums, getting Zadar and Rample. I regret neither. They are both incredible modules. And I haven't even put my own samples on Rample yet!
• One LFO only, but with multiple outputs. Also, I use Zadar as an LFO from time to time. It's unipolar, but hey, set the start point at the bottom instead of in the middle and it works just fine. Great to have complex LFOs when I want them! Ochd sounds nice, but it's not on my urgent list.
• I thought I would save some money getting the Feedback modules. Really, they aren't bad. Static has a lovely variety of noise sources and Lo-Fusion is a nice analogue filter. But looking back, I regret not spending a bit more. I really miss a V-Oct for the chip noise and a hi pass filter. A different selection would've gotten me those immediately.
• The Versio. I lusted for a Ruina Versio from the beginning, but my focus has shifted away from distortion. The Electus looked nice too but wasn't in stock. I can try it any time by flashing the firmware, but I'll definitely get to know the Melotus well before I flash it to something else.
• Next up will be a Joranalogue Select 2 S/T&H and a Pamela to clock it. There's a random CV on the Static that I can use with this. Pamela will definitely be a great addition in the long run.
• I'm currently using my BeatStep Pro for sequencing but I've been running into its limitations pretty quickly. Try long 3/4 (or any non-4/4) patterns, for example. So I ordered a Teensy to try out a Dirtywave M8 headless and if that works fine, I'll get a real unit. I worked quite a bit in ScreamTracker and FastTracker 2 so the workflow feels familiar.
• I'm working on integrating the modular with my iPad, step by step. I bought an IK iRig Pro Duo to get a dual (stereo) input for recording, tuning and scope. Unfortunately, it hasn't been working well. I think it conflicts with the Motu M4 that's connected to the same USB hub. It's gone back and I'm eyeing an ES-9 next. Later on, AUM and Borderlands.

I've been really enjoying this setup so far. I like the limitations, as they force me to be creative. Some things turned out really well, some a bit less. You live and learn. To keep myself committed, I started a project where I do patching from scratch and publish a track after a jam every day. I just started a YouTube channel for this, you can find the link in my signature. I'm catching up the previous 2 weeks still, but the last few days are there. For the full list, check my SoundCloud playlist. Sorry for the blatant self-promotion, but it's more a request for review. Let me know if I should post that in another part of the forum!

Thanks for all your help here! I couldn't have done it without you

I just ordered a bunch of stuff and split the order over Thomann, Schneidersladen and Escape from Noise. All sent to Belgium. These three combined offer most brands, but some esoteric ones, I needed to order directly (Feedback modules and Lakik, specifically). Anything specific you're looking for?

From the description on Instruō's website: "Each independent core is free running with rates configured from fastest to slowest arranged from top to bottom. Each frequency range was tuned by ear during development to give the optimum spread of control frequencies running in parallel. Being 100% analogue, the LFO’s will phase organically with the ability to ebb and flow together with their global frequency control."

-- jletra

Okay perhaps I explained it a bit wrong and you might be right about the above part description. My point however is that you don't have really 8 independent LFOs. Okay they might be "free running" but what is free running in this context?

To me, free running LFOs are the opposite of triggered LFOs. They start and you cannot reset/restart/trigger them.

Instruo's description to me sounds like they're all on a independent frequencies but you cannot change the ratio between them. So if one is 100Hz and the next 120Hz, if you go down one octave it'll be 50Hz and 60Hz.

Hi jdesole,

I had an interesting back-and-forth with Jim here on my first ideas for a modular, just like you. Jim is 100% correct about the utility modules. Make sure you get enough VCAs, multiples, etc. I have only a few sound sources but I'm already adding 8 more to the 8 I already have. That's because my current 8 can also be used as mixers and you'll need plenty of mixers and attenuators. And attenuverters. And, as I said, multiples.

Another tip: start small. I was looking at the Harmonaig as well, but I decided to start monophonic. That was a good move. For drums/samples, I have the Squarp Rample, which is small and very powerful. I would advise you to look at it. I only have 1 Plaits, 1 bOSC (analog oscillator) and a Feedback Static noise generator. But I've been having a lot of fun mixing analog waves modulating them in several different waves. I've now done a short track with the noise with envelopes for drums (nice old school) and the Rample is doing some bass percussion. I haven't even received my FX Aid and I have only 1 filter and 1 LFO (not really - my envelope is a Xaoc Zadar that I can also use as an LFO). So I'm finding it's much more flexible than I expected. I'm having a lot of fun expanding beyond what I assume are limitations, by creative patching.

You can check out some of my jams in this playlist . Everything was made with this rack. Of course, with one track per day, it's nothing spectacular, but I think it shows some of the flexibility of even a limited setup.

Very nice! I never heard of the Krell patch before but it's definitely one I'm going to investigate. It sounds absolutely brilliant and your choice of sounds could not have been nicer (like the Plaits formants, I'm going to try this mode on my Plaits too).

So, here is version 3:

Very basic setup with v/oct coming from the BSP to the oscillators and triggers from BSP to Zadar. Then a couple of effects and modulations. I replaced one of the bOSC with a Plaits for more flexibility.

Well, check my latest post above. I get the what and why of what's needed here, I'm simply offering options so that it's more apparent that there's solutions OUTSIDE of the DAW environment, as well as VST solutions within it.

I must have missed that one. I know the TC Clarity quite well - I have several units at work where we use it for sound normalisation to EBU R 128 for TV broadcast. It's overkill for what I have in mind at the moment, but thanks for the suggestion. If I feel the need to upgrade, I will definitely consider it.

The only reason you'd need an oscilloscope in a typical studio...and it's a BIG one...is to check stereo phasing on your mixdowns. (...)
Now, the other sort of display I'd recommend isn't a scope...but an RTA. Real-time Analyzers let you see the levels across the entire sound spectrum, and they can come in handy when trying to chase down hard-to-kill frequency "lumps" that're jumping out of the mix. And if you don't have a reliable set of monitors (and why wouldn't you? your monitor chain is probably THE MOST CRITICAL DEVICE in the studio), you can use the RTA to try and fix the discrepancies in the mix that your monitors are causing.

Hi Lugia,

Thanks for your post. I do have a nice set of monitors (DMAX SuperCubes) but this is besides the point of this thread. I'm looking to build an instrument, not to further expand my studio. So why the scope? I find it really useful to see what a filter, modulation or effect does to the waveform. As I stated, I'm a very visual person. I associate high frequencies with sharp angles on a screen. So when I put e.g. a low pass filter with lfo on cutoff frequency on a sawtooth, I see these ripples of higher frequencies come in as the frequency goes up and it starts to form the sharp sawtooth edge. It is the combined experience of seeing this and hearing it happen that gives me the full picture. It's a personal thing, perhaps, but it helps me. Also, of course, a realtime spectrum analyser is very useful for a variety of situations, particularly for mixing. So yeah, I'm looking to get some sort of visualisation on the phone for what the instrument is doing, even when not using it in my studio.

headphone dongle wont' really help except for audio - for low frequencies you'd still need a dc-coupled interface and a usb dongle for the phone - nb you only get 2 channels this way

I'll just get myself one of those dongles for €10 and see if it does what I need. I also noticed that my Zoom H2n has a built-in tuner, but that's microphone based.

having mostly been in the same situation for most of my adult life, I've never had an issue being in front of a computer for a bit longer in order to do stuff I want to do - use a DAW, etc and for a long time if I wanted to watch any tv or movies it was also in front of a computer...

I hear you! And I have done the same. I find it very tiring. I'm aiming to be a bit more "Look mum no computer". Even if I don't use it all the time, it'll still be there to turn ideas from the modular into songs.

Yes, but at least they're velocity sensitive, unlike the SQ-64.

not via the trigger outs they're not - via midi they are I guess - never used mine other than via cv though

Oh blimey. I was actually eyeing the Digitakt as well, also because it'll be a fun standalone machine that I can take to family holidays without taking over the whole car booth. One of the reasons I took it off my list is the velocity sensitivity.

With modulation, I meant wave modulation actually. I agree that LFOs are better kept separate. It's why I have the A145-4 in there. LFOs serve one purpose, VCOs another and as with my short rant about O&C, I don't like tools that mix up purposes.

I don't really see any wavetable oscillators - I think I'd want a more ergonomic quad lfo...

Good point about the quad LFO. It also doesn't have a sine wave. As for the VCO - wavetable isn't necessary to do modulation. There's ring and FM etc that can all be done with two VCOs. I might actually want lots more VCOs if I'm going that route!

temps utile, random triggers, clock divider and multiplier, buffered mults and harmonaig all seem a little superfluous - you have 8 trigger outs and 2 cv/gate/velocity outputs (all with probability iirc) on the BSP and no percussion and only 2 vcos in the rack...

I am going to do percussion based on the noise generators.

I was thinking of using the Temps Utile, clock & random bits to to the rythm, but you're right - all of that is in the BSP... It's going to be much easier to control it all from there instead of programming it on the modular itself! It seems like I was walking on two parallel paths at the same time. It'll save me serious money that I can put towards a Maths.

And the Harmonaig - yeah, I'll need more VCOs if I want to use that at all...

in the larger rack - the droid stuff seems to be in a similar place - the chipz I would replace with a Maths, the 2 dvcas I'd replace with a veils - and I'm not convinced of the need for 2 dplrs - and I'm not convinced about the mix solution - no panning and no send/returns...

Yeah, that stereo bit... Always feels like a good idea to me, but I'm starting to feel it's not in its right place here. I'm going to keep it mono and do the stereo part in the DAW afterwards.

there are definitely scope apps for iPhone - probably for Android too -but you'd have to find the one that works for you - can't say I've ever needed a scope though in 5-6 years of modular - I'd rate them as nice to have, rather than crucial - except for a few DIY builds

I'm a very visual person, so I like having a view on how the wave reacts to certain changes, like modulation. So I'm going to get a headphone dongle for my iphone (like, yeah, it was too expensive to add one into the phone itself) and do some research on that.

nb there's dc-coupled and there's dc-coupled - something advertised as such will definitely be dc-coupled on outputs - but not necessarily on inputs...

The Motu M4 indeed has DC coupled outputs. DC coupling is new to me (like so many things), so some work to do here. I guess DC coupled out only means I can use it to send data from VCV Rack to the modular, but not vice versa? In that case, tuning with VCV Rack won't work. I just read an RME is similar to my M4, so I'd like to understand what you mean exactly here.

Anyway, as my primary aim is to uncouple myself from the dreaded PC screen that I spend all day in front of, I consider this a nice to have. It will remain in my studio rack and I won't be moving it into the Intellijel 7U case.

they're much more like buttons - MPC style pads, I guess - not like drumpads you can hit with a drumstick!

Yes, but at least they're velocity sensitive, unlike the SQ-64.

Yeah, I'm not aiming at more. There's plenty of oscillators in the big version but they can be used for modulation as well.

-- Arrandan

I try to keep lfos separate - every time I buy a module that'll do both - I end up using them for vco's - tides, tides2, cali - all work as both lfos and/or envelope generators - but sound great as vcos - so they end up being used as vcos - and I try to forget that some of the lfos, filters, envelope generators etc I have can also be used as vcos - otherwise I'd end up with patches with all vcos and virtually nothing left for modulation, filtering etc

With modulation, I meant wave modulation actually. I agree that LFOs are better kept separate. It's why I have the A145-4 in there. LFOs serve one purpose, VCOs another and as with my short rant about O&C, I don't like tools that mix up purposes.

Aside from this rather very interesting discussion, is there anything you think is wrong or missing from the basic setup? Having played with a similar setup in VCV Rack, it feels like a good starting point to me.

And thanks for all your help!

Hi Jim,

Sorry - had the rack private while I worked on them. They're public now.

i'd spend a bit more and get a dc-coupled interface - even if it's a used RME or something for $150 - that way you can use vcv rack - including the tuner and oscilloscopes in there!!! and forget about a scope in the case - the screen is tiny and you can use an app on your phone to tune..

Ah yes, the good old phone. Now there's an idea! Makes mental note - kick out the scope. Is there scope software for a phone as well? But then I'll really need an audio interface in the rack, e.g. that Expert Sleepers in my big setup.

In my home studio, I have a small Motu M4 interface. It has 2 XLS/TRS and 2 line in. It's confirmed DC coupled by Sweetwater so I can use that there. But I expect only the XLS/TRS to be DC coupled, so it's very limited. May want to invest anyway in that case.

beatstep pro is good - I've got one - works great... mostly because it's been around for a long time - and they fixed nearly all the bugs- I've heard of a few issues with the sq64...

Good to know. I also like the fact it has actual drumpads instead of just buttons.

I'd try to aim for 3-4 voices max in a case this size - it's enough - otherwise there's not enough space for everything else you'll need...

I've got about 10 plus a bit of percussion - basically another 2 -3 modules - in something like 1000 hp and it seems about right to me...

Yeah, I'm not aiming at more. There's plenty of oscillators in the big version but they can be used for modulation as well.

Hello,

I did some more research and validation on VCV Rack and here's what I'm looking at now. BTW, Jim, your signature is completely right. If sound sources are the organs, effects the muscles and sequencers the brains, then utilities are the skeleton. It's been a very enlightening week.

For the case - you were right that a single 84HP row is much too limiting. I looked at cases and because the Mantis is currently hard to get, I found the Intellijel 7U 104HP stealth case, which is portable and has feet and some external connections. It's double the price of the Mantis, but with its metal build and lid, I like it a lot.

New version is here:

This is the basic version. I made a full version, which I'll link to at the bottom. That came out at over $6000, which is way beyond what I want to spend. So I stripped it down, mostly by removing features (some oscillators, the stereo bit) and sometimes by replacing bits by more cost effective parts (like the Droid for the Temps Utile or the chip osc + noise by a combo). That took the price down to about $2500, which is more manageable.

Top row is all utility. In this basic version, I'm using the Quadratt as the mixer. I like the idea of mixing patches with an external mixer, but on the road, I want to be able to output a single wire. I added the zeroscope for tuning and the occasional waveform check. It's much more cost-effective than a Mordax and I don't need much more. I filled it up with more utility that will always come in handy.

First 3U row has the Temps Utile, LFO, oscillators, a filter and the basic Befaco line+headphone out with cue.

Second 3U row has some randomness & and/or to take out beats at random, then clock div/mult. The Harmonaig is lots of fun - I played with it in VCV Rack. It's a keeper. The Zadar - if you can't tell: I like modules that are dedicated to one purpose, but offer lots of functionality within that scope. So I won't be adding an O&C, but I do have the FX AID (great suggestion!). Finally, a fun spring to round it off.

As for playing it, I'm looking at a hardware sequencer, preferably with pads. I mentioned Torso T-1 but it's all sold out and unavailable until August... I'm going to be using it starting April so I'm looking at an alternative. The Beatstep Pro is on my list, as is the SQ-64 and a couple of others.

So what do you think of this new setup?

The full version adds Mutable Ears+Rings, some more OSCs, filters, fx & VCAs, stereo (delay for imaging and pan for the rest) and the pretty impressive Droid with some expansions from Der Mann Mit Der Maschine. I love how versatile it is, yet dedicated to CV production and manipulation. There's an extra 3U row which corresponds to a 3U 19" row I have available in my studio rack. In it, I have the modules from the basic setup that I replaced by higher end modules (Temps Utile and the Feedback Static) as well as audio and MIDI interfaces. Here it is:

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your reply. It's very instructive. I did consider the 1cm limitation of 2hp. The buttons won't be very helpful, indeed. But since the notes will be coming from the Torso, I don't really mind.

Aside from that, yeah, you're right. There's several pieces missing. The stereo mixer just isn't a good match for a mono system. When in my home studio, I can plug it all into an audio interface and add stereo imaging any way I want to anyway. And you're right - the VCO-filter-effects flow needs a lot of work. I'm playing around with VCV Rack as we speak to learn more about that.

As for the Mantis - I like the suggestion. In the home studio, I have another 3U space for another 84HP for extension. I was considering the ES9 and some stuff I may not always want on the road for that. I built my own racks with that in mind. But I'll reconsider, because I read a lot of positive stuff about the Mantis.

And I have noticed it's probably a good idea to start off with 1 voice and to really understand what combinations and patchings are possible, before upgrading to several more.

Peter.

Hi all,
I've had some exposure to analog synths (1980s-90s), trackers with samples (90s), then took a break and restarted a year ago with a wavetable synth (Argon8x) and several soft synths in Logic (e.g. Sculpture). Because most of this was slow, plodding development of tunes in a DAW or other editor, I'm looking to break it all open and enjoy the unbridled live madness of modular.

I've added a bunch of 2HP oscillators because they take little space, yet seem quite capable. For noise, I went with something a little more flexible. Then there's LFO/EG and some effects. Finally, the Erica Black stereo mixer with PFL so I can hear first, then mix in. Planning on getting some patch-through cables to split the signal into stereo for the mixer.

I'm planning to use this setup with a Torso T-1. I thought I'd need the Bastl 1983 for that, but it seems there's more CV connectivity than I thought. So I guess that one can go. Saves me a pretty penny and 7HP.

I'd like to use this mounted into my racks in my home studio, yet take it out into a portable box when playing elsewhere. Is that doable?

I wanted to add the JPG here, but it seems like ModularGrid updates that infrequently. So here's the link straight to the rack config.

StarterKit on ModularGrid