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As someone recently on the receiving end of some blunt but probably fair criticism for my proposed rack, I thought I would give my thoughts on this thread. I do think criticism, blunt or otherwise, can be useful. But there's a difference between being told your rack is lacking and what you need to learn, and being told to "quit immediately" if you don't pass whatever artistic litmus test. Hazel's post struck me as a thoughtful response to a thread which had a mix of helpful and holier-than-thou posts. That the first reply was "I'm not understanding the point" of the post surprised me, because I thought it made a lot of good points, especially the last paragraph about the value of making mistakes.

I take Ronin's words at face value that "we want people to have great experiences and really enjoy their racks and cases. But they have to get past the first hurdle of what exactly IS a modular synth and how do you interface with it?" Many hobbies have hurdles for beginners. (Especially track and field.) To extend the running metaphor: yes, you have to get over the hurdles yourself, but a good coach can help you get ready to jump them.

For a forum where criticism almost seems to be the default response, there was a strange lack of self-criticism in the replies to Hazel's post. Instead, it was dismissed with "Besides criticism of other members and their decades of experience... what are you offering to this year old thread?" which both misses and underscores the point. Beyond this particular thread, I agree that there tends to be an "an unnecessary level of discouragement" in this community. And that's a shame, because this forum could be missing out on a lot of posters who either feel intimidated or just put off by the general tone.

Maybe I'd see things differently if I knew a lot more about modular and synthesis and attenuverters, if that's even a real word. But consider the opposite: how would the most experienced people here view the forum if they were coming here for the first time, without all their knowledge and experience? Would they want to stay and learn, or find somewhere else more welcoming? I ask that because I'm asking myself the same question.

You also mentioned, I think it was Ronin1973 that new users lack knowledge on triggers, gates, clocks etc. I think you hit the nail on the head right there.
-- Groc

I read your whole post. But this line jumped out at me the most. If we were to write "the book" one of the biggest recommendations would be to download and install VCV Rack. The basic system is free and there are a lot of free expansions. It's an entire Eurorack-style ecosystem that will allow you to add and play with modules using virtual Eurorack standards. When you're trying to get a feel for what is a trigger, gate, clock, CV, etc. it's an invaluable resource for learning and trying things out hands on. You'll walk away with a lot more knowledge of how modular works in the real world... by doing. I can't stress it enough.

Eurorack is tricky to get your mind around coming from DAWs and hardware MIDI. I think people get comfortable with virtual plug-ins and traditional MIDI instruments that are far easier to use than control voltages. Being able to recall complete patches and using a working INIT patch means little thought has to be given to HOW different components actually communicate with each other. In Eurorack, you literally have to make the connections between components by hand.

As you discover how CV works, you'll notice a lot of very basic modules can really unleash the full power of such a retro method of making synth sounds. It's that level of control that, personally, brought me to Eurorack.

It's all good. I hope you stay around for quite a while and post frequently. I'm still learning a lot as well. There's always an interesting way to do things.

bought a doepfer wasp filter from @afriendofken - quick shipping, very happy.

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.
I am a bit surprised by some of the things mentioned.
"Please try to plan less "fancy" or "sexy" modules however more classic components (they might look boring, they do look boring but you seriously need them) like VCOs, VCFs, EGs, LFOs, VCAs, etcetera."
Fancy and sexy have very little to do with what I am trying to achieve. It's all about the sound for me and if I could make the sounds in my head with 12 VCA's, I would be happy to do that :)
I have 3 Oscillaors, 2 VCF's, 2 EG, 5 VCA's and a basic LFO so far.
I have been reading what you suggested though and am seeing that my modules are fine but very incomplete without more utility modules.

''Another consideration is that you're using a lot of Mutable Instruments modules."
I am actually only using 2 but I get your point. I think one of the issues for "some" people new to eurorack, myself I would include here, is we do research and want to get what is considered the best quality and most versatile modules; therefore Mutable Instruments comes up a lot. However, like everything, maybe it is just a bunch of online magazines trying to profit from other peoples lack of knowledge and maybe there own, I don't know.

I read "Why your 6U x 84 generative rig won't work" and the replies that follow and I think you guys should write that short book for beginners.
Every time a newbe posts "Help! New to Eurorack", you guys can just give the link to the e-book :)
It would be so helpful and also it would help adjust the expectations of those really interested and not interested in learning eurorack, as well as the cost involved (especially for errors on purchasing unnecessary modules).
You also mentioned, I think it was Ronin1973 that new users lack knowledge on triggers, gates, clocks etc. I think you hit the nail on the head right there.
I feel lost in a forest when it comes to that stuff. I am so use to midi and how easy it is to implement. I get Oscillators, Filters, EG's, VCA's and LFO's (a basic synth) but I think it gets complicated after that, which probably sounds silly to people with experience like yourselves.
I am always reading what I can and looking at Youtube etc but it is all so fragmented and incomplete. An authority on the subject would be helpful.

Thanks for all the info guys and for taking the time out of your days to help and you have probably saved me some money here so thank you.

I already ordered the Plaits, Stages, Polaris, Quad VCA and uFold pre this post so I will learn these as much as I can and use them with my Lifeforms SV-1. I will also add the Quadratt as advised and maybe a sequencer module.
I might also add the Disting at some point to see what other utility modules I need for my own purposes.

Ok, thanks again!
I can see I have a lot of reading and experimenting to do so best of luck.
I am sure I will be back...

Thanks, Ronin, for both of your replies, and I apologize if my first post sounded harsher than it needed to.

I’m not sure I agree with everything you wrote here. I’m not especially familiar with the Mother 32 but it seems like a very capable synth in it’s own right. The prospect of integrating it with a small eurorack setup that includes Disting, Tides, Maths, and Shades, and then adding some of the modules that placebo suggested (Strymon Magneto, Intellijel Rainmaker, MI Clouds, Make Noise Erb-Verb, Tiptop Z-DSP) seems to me far from “just piling on the bad.” It seems a bit strange to me that you can agree with the creative potential of a slinky or Pringles can (which I agree with too btw) but make the statement you did about the above setup. (It’s also worth noting that Lugia agreed with placebo’s recommendation to add effects modules to this rack.)

I apologize if these posts of mine aren’t helping as that’s really my intention, but I feel like the following point is valid: I think statements like yours above, and the quotes of Lugia’s that I’ve referenced, may in fact do just as much harm to the genre of synthesis than less-than-perfect setups that require the user to make adjustments as they begin to learn more.

I also think it’s possible there may be a bit more space for different approaches to a modular setup than it seems you and Lugia believe. An example… A rack that was posted a few days ago received the following criticism: “There's an Elements...and a Rings? OK with the Department of Redundancy Department, perhaps, but a waste of space otherwise. Lose one or the other.” Note they didn’t merely point out that these two modules are similar; they more or less gave an order. Yet I recall a video popping up in my youtube suggestions recently that featured a 6U case that not only had Elements and Rings, but Elements + two Rings (all three of which were being used). If I remember correctly it was quite lovely, had thousands of views and many enthusiastic comments. Might the OP of that thread have benefited from using both of those modules in a rack that was 12U / 84HP? I don’t know, but I think it’s reasonable to suggest that it’s a possibility.

Look: I hope it goes without saying that I’m not trying to start anything, or to insult anyone personally. We both agree that modular synths are wonderful instruments, and I agree that many people likely don’t do the necessary research required to get into this – that they post racks with serious flaws and that they benefit greatly from the advice of you, Lugia, and others… With a subject that can be so daunting though (it terms of learning curve and cost) I’ve found what I see as an unnecessary level of discouragement in many of the posts I’ve come across.

For what you are planning, the lack of filters, VCAs, VCFs, attenuators and attenuverters, you are just going to have a very expensive and poorly functioning sampler on your desk.

You've fallen into the same pit as most people new to Eurorack fall into. You seem to not understand HOW a control voltage environment works and you're cherry picking modules that you seem to like. You really need to educate yourself how Eurorack/modular synthesis works and start planning AFTER.

I realize that you're planning for this to work with VCV Rack. But there are gaping holes here. I'm not picking on you. I hope everything works out well and you get everything out of your gear you're looking for. But this build is just lacking.

Thanks to @pibou for the smooth transaction of a perfect Roland 521 VCF module!

I had a quite nice & responsive communication and smooth transaction with @LightsOfCeres. Highly recommended.
-- cereyanlimusiki

Me to...

My best advice to you would be to download VCVRack (it's free) and set up a virtual Eurorack synth then try to play it.

In this set-up you're missing a lot of key elements to even a basic synth. What is a VCA? Why are they important and what can you do with them? Do you know the types of VCAs that are around? How many would you suggest for this set-up? What is an attenuator and/or an attenuverter?

How will you attenuate control voltages going to the resonance input for your VCF for example. The filter cut-off has a knob that functions as an attenuator... but the resonance doesn't. Manufacturers put attenuators and attenuverters (an added expense) on inputs they believe will get a lot of use. But there's no rules saying that they have to. If you want to control the amount of attenuation with other parts of your system, you'll need VCAs as well.

How will this synth play notes? There's nothing on here that can deliver a sequence of pitches AND gates. The Vari-Gate only does gates. What will handle pitch information?

You're also missing a lot of modulation sources. LFOs are very handy and standard sources of modulation. There's not one here. Where are the envelope generators? The Maths can do simple two stage envelopes... but what about ADSR envelopes?

Regarding the filter. It's only a low-pass filter. It has different outputs that supports different cut-off slopes. But that's the only kind of filtering you can do with it. I'd check out something like the Joranalogue Filter 8 to give yourself a lot more options... unless you're going to add a few other filter types to your system, which would be expensive.

The mixer is DC-coupled (so it can mix audio or it can mix control voltages). It's fine. But you may also want to consider an output module that converts synth level to line level. Modular synths operate at a much louder volume than your average line level synth.

Maths. Maths is a great utility module to have around. But it's a jack-of-all-trades.

Eurorack is pretty trendy today. There are a lot of people who are excited to get into it. I don't blame them.

But in the rush to get into the genre of synthesizer, they often don't bother understanding what makes Eurorack actually WORK.

So a nice percentage of racks that are put up for advice are like the one above. Recommending modules for ambient music making... no problem. Discourse and disagreement on what modules to recommend? Always.

However, simply acting like a sales clerk and watching people throw good money after bad is a thorn in the side of many people in this forum. Is it their money? No. Is it going to affect them personally? No.

However, it does affect the genre of synthesis. When people walk away from a bad experience... they blame the gear and the genre. Yet they refuse to learn how control voltage systems ACTUALLY work. The rack above follows suit. The recommendation to buy module-du-jour for making ambient music from... THAT RACK... you're just piling on the bad.

As I said, I can't speak for Lugia. But I believe his views are similar to mine. We want people to have great experiences and really enjoy their racks and cases. But they have to get past the first hurdle of what exactly IS a modular synth and how do you interface with it?

pretty stoked on the new arrangement of my live drum rig :) sequencing and voices in the base and mixing and modulation in the lid :) check the latest pics on instagram for a view.

EDITED Nov 20th 2019, 16:20

ook, I definitely got your point so I added one more row. From where should we start now? Could i now preserve all my modules? thanks for your time.

Ronin1973:

I came across this thread while researching suggestions for eurorack modules that would be good for making ambient music. I think it’s pretty understandable I was left feeling frustrated.

Conversations often stray from the original topic in interesting ways but I disagree this strayed “a little”. It’s more like it took an immediate detour and then started to get back on track towards the end (and yes, I’m aware that I haven’t helped in this regard). If the OP had asked for advice about creative methods for making ambient music, or for people’s feedback regarding the importance of using specific gear, this likely would have been a very helpful thread.

I was admittedly being intentionally critical, but still, I find your response a little surprising. Lugia wrote: “if you have to labor under the misapprehension that you MUST have X piece of gear to do Y sort of music, then quit immediately, as you're not really making something that truly speaks of who you are musically.” Honestly, what could be more critical than that?

Personally, I agree that focusing too much on gear can be a hindrance and distraction, but there’s also a big difference between writing that doing so “kills ones’ creativity” and suggesting someone should quit making music because they believe they need X equipment. IMO it’s totally valid for someone to believe that a particular module is an integral and necessary part of their setup because of the unique properties it has.

I was trying to offer a different perspective. I found this thread because I had the same question as the OP but found this for the most part discouraging. I wrote what I did for others who might feel similarly. In the last paragraph I was kind of questioning the helpfulness of advice in general, but you make a valid point that this is an old thread that likely won’t get much attention.

I'm looking at getting some of these adapters for sticking 6HP worth of 3U modules into 1U rows:

https://reverb.com/item/28954223-3pcs-eurorack-3u-to-1u-eurorack-adapter-pulplogic-1u-standard

There's a way to rotate a module 180 degrees, but not 90 degrees, which allows for showing these modules in the spot they're going to reside in. Is there any way in hell this could be possible to implement, putting a submitted module of these adapter into a rack, and then putting a module into that rack?

I'm looking at getting some of these adapters for sticking 6HP worth of 3U modules into 1U rows:

https://reverb.com/item/28954223-3pcs-eurorack-3u-to-1u-eurorack-adapter-pulplogic-1u-standard

There's a way to rotate a module 180 degrees, but not 90 degrees, which allows for showing these modules in the spot they're going to reside in. Is there any way in hell this could be possible to implement, putting a submitted module of these adapter into a rack, and then putting a module into that rack?

I read your post. You have an SV-1 and a Keystep. This rack will be in addition to those pieces.

"I want to have a lot of diversity, functionality in a small rack."
The nature of modular makes this a very difficult request to fulfill. I'm assuming that the SV-1 is going to be your go-to synth and what's in the rack will compliment the SV-1. What do you feel is missing from the SV-1/Keystep combination? Where are you going with your music?

Garfield mentioned getting the 7U version of a case. I would definitely recommend that too. It's a little more money up front. But you get more space and more features in the 7U cases.

As far as what you HAVE in the rack posted above... IF you get a 7U case, you will definitely not need the Intellijel audio I/O 1U JACKS module. Those are built into the back of the case and have a connector for the Intellijel audio I/O module.

The pedal I/O and pedal jacks I/O are nice to have. But there are better modules that will fit in that 1U space. Get an Intellijel Quadratt for mixing, inverting, and scaling your CV and even audio. You'll find it more useful than that other stuff (the Duatt doesn't offer enough channels in my opinion). Eurorack versions of reverb, delay, and bread and butter effects are nice due if they have CV inputs for real time modulation of parameters. That's something you generally can't do with most general, stand-alone effects units.

There are some things that might give you a wider palette of sound such as a module capable of ring modulation and/or distortion. You're on the right track with a wave folder. You can overdrive a signal with your Duatt... but there's no way to directly modulate the module. It's still not a bad module, though.

Another consideration is that you're using a lot of Mutable Instrument modules. There are smaller micro versions of these available. If you can handle the smaller knobs, it's a great way to save rack space for other modules.

I'd also suggest a module like Ornaments & Crime. Your Keystep has an on-board sequencer. But having a second sequencer that can be locked to the Keystep and be modulated within the rack is also helpful. Sequencers can be used to influence modulation rather than playing notes. The O_C can also generate envelopes rather than gates... so it can get you a long way even if used in a subtle manner.

To summarize. What you have here in conjunction with the SV-1 and Keystep isn't bad. Just go with a larger case. As you dive deeper into Eurorack, you're going to probably want to add more modules or swap out what you have for something else that might need more room. Give yourself room to expand.

I reread your original post. You're want to use Ableton with your rack. Cool.

Here are some ideas.

The Expert Sleeper modules are very good when it comes to interfacing with a DAW.

The FH-2 and newly release ES-9 are worth checking out.

The FH-2 converts MIDI to control voltage. The 8 outputs can be set up as either gates/triggers or CV. So any combination is possible with CV, gates, clocks, etc. The FH-2 is also expandable if you need more outputs.

The ES-9 skips the translation from MIDI CV and acts as a direct gateway between your DAW and your rack: audio, CV, gates in both directions.

They aren't cheap and they aren't exactly easy to set-up/edit, even when using the browser interface. But they are very powerful. I'd do a little research on them as well as any alternatives by other manufacturers.

I'm not understanding the point of Hazel's post. It seems to be hyper-critical of those who responded a year ago.

To shed some light on my take on the community: we're not sales people. This isn't a music store. We're not going to make a recommendation without giving some background. There will be side conversations related to the original post but straying away a little from the original post. That happens in most casual conversations. Lugia has a valid point regarding making ambient music. It's not the module du jour that makes a genre work. It's the knowledge acquired producing it.

In my short experience with modular, there's a large segment of new people who seek out specific modules but do not have the experience or knowledge to create a system around those modules that will work as a viable creative platform. So the conversation centers around someone putting together a collection of attractive modules with no infrastructure built in to actually make them work as a cohesive instrument.

Besides criticism of other members and their decades of experience... what are you offering to this year old thread?

Something to think about.

i recommend @toneburst. great builder and a kind and uncomplicated seller, cheers!

I was wondering if anyone used Neutron Sound QAT and/or QVCA ?
QVCA seems to be the classical OTA/TL0X4 design which from other modules I've tried is a bit blurry (for audio) when compared to say Veils..
For CV duties I think I could be better off with the quad attenuverter.

thanks to @rsillsley and @wazou, both very kind sellers who helped me begin this amazing journey into eurorack with modules in great conditions

Lol indeed!

Let’s recap what happened here as it seems perfectly illustrative of how modular grid can be at its worst.

The OP asks a very straightforward question looking for suggestions for modules that would be helpful for making ambient music. They receive a straightforward reply: “Rings, Clouds, Morphagene! These 3 are practically necessities in the 'Ambient Modular' genre...”

And then Lugia, apparently feeling slighted (that’s the only explanation that makes some sense), sarcastically remarks that they should quit making ambient music since they haven’t used those… that none of their “15+ albums of ambient work are valid anymore.”

Honestly, could it have been any more OBVIOUS that placebo92 was being suggestive and just trying to help? How anyone could interpret their response as implying that one needs those three modules to make ambient music is crazy!

Lugia then writes that a belief that certain equipment is necessary is a great way to kill one’s creativity. While there’s certainly truth to that, is this not a forum dedicated to helping people learn about equipment? Within this context, how helpful is that sort of comment? And that question is actually a bit of a tangent, since my main issue here is the fact that this thread became pretty much totally hijacked and did little to help the OP (hence their very understandable reply above). Modular synths are a pretty specific instrument… Might it be beneficial to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume there’s a good reason they’ve decided to invest all of the time, money, and effort required to use one, instead of, say, choosing to use a contact mic with a slinky?

Lugia clearly know a lot about gear, but I’m also reminded of professors who know their subject well and still make awful teachers. This is not the first time (or second or third, etc) that I’ve read their posts and found them not only unhelpful but actually discouraging.

IMO advice should always be taken with handfuls of salt, but... If you’re on this forum and reading this there’s probably a good reason. And… (referencing many other threads here), there are worse things than putting together a modular setup that lacks VCAs and envelope generators, or buying a module and having to return or sell it cuz it doesn’t do what you were hoping, or even spending thousands of dollars and countless time only to realize you’d be better off with a Pringles can. My point is these “mistakes” may be frustrating while they’re happening but they’ll also likely be priceless learning experiences that ultimately help define what you’re after.

Hi Ronin,

Yeah! That demo "says" it all, doesn't it? :-) So when are we going to the shop and buy it? ;-) Still my question stands regarding a convertor module for it... or how are you going to use it with modular?

Kind regards and thanks for sharing the above link, Garfield.

Hi Groc,

Please read the posts in this forum under the Rack section this post: "Why your 6U x 84 generative rig won't work", that's very useful to people new into modular. Please also consider to plan a (much) bigger casing. Please also read other posts in the Rack section to get an idea of what other new persons to modular came across.

Please try to plan less "fancy" or "sexy" modules however more classic components (they might look boring, they do look boring but you seriously need them) like VCOs, VCFs, EGs, LFOs, VCAs, etcetera.

The Arturia Keystep is a good start to get a sequence into your modular. Don't forget to look at an audio input/output module. The Eurorack signals are not 100% compatible with the audio signals so the best way to go is for an audio input/output module. But if you really plan to go for an Intellijel case (take the 7U, not the 4U), then that should be fine.

Good luck with reading, investigating, understanding (check/ask here if any info required) and planning your modular system, and please try to read the entire posts in the Rack section of this forum. Try to avoid the "TL;DR" principle ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Hi Moderator,

Yes that would be great! Separately from the rack it would be good to be enable it for the public or keep it private (that note I mean).

Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

To "fix" your system there aren't any small adjustments to be made. That's the point we're trying to express. To make your proposed system worthwhile in the limited amount of space really isn't workable. We have to add functionality and there's just no space to do that. A larger case would make it possible. Until there is more space, you're not going to get anywhere.

For what you have here... you'd be better off buying a semi-modular synth and a simple desktop sampler. It will be less expensive and complete.

If you're going to do this all in the confines of Eurorack, you're going to need a bigger budget and a bigger case. Sorry to be that blunt about it. But there's no making this build work with just a couple of tweaks.

Thanks guys for your replies. I really understand your points of view and what you're meaning. Despite that I don't want to leave my modular departure before taking off (I've left numerous times). From your answers I perceived I really need more control over this system, of course through smaller useful modules. From where I need to start? Or...maybe, from where I can cut? Can I maybe remove the 4ms sampler? Actually I don't have a sampler in the studio and this is why I put it inside. Speaking clearer, I'm really an open mind musician and I was looking to a no controllable system (or i can say less controllable, obviously in a good and enhancing way...). I would make a system with more than one master clock, no related each one, and where I can experiment with melodies, my only beloved need in music. I put math because I read it should be the first modulator in a system. I know i'm following some intuitions, of course I gave too much importance to the single module and the whole system is now "unusable". What would you suggest? Could you please give me some "small" adjustments and try to make this system usable? Thanks for your time and your full answers.

I'm looking for a vector space quite some now; I'll definitely snatch one if it pops up in a good price!Seems like a well though out module..
Batumi and Zadar are nice dedicated LFOs/EGs.
I'm quite pleased with O&C quad LFOs which is less than half their price..
I don't quite like the envelopes on the O&C though, I don't like the Peaks' envelopes either; can't exactly express why they just don't feel "right"/snappy enough..
My other gripe with Batumi is that it's basic signals only and I think I'm quite covered on those with my two Stages..
I should take a closer look to Tides v2, it seems more useful than Tides v1.

-- belzrebuth

Now is a good time to buy as we're getting into Black Friday sales. Check out Perfect Circuit if you're in the USA.

If you're looking for snappy EGs, you'll probably have to go with analog envelope generators the Z4000 EGs from Tip Top are designed to be very snappy. The Z4000's also include controls for scaling as well as attenuverting the output (negative envelope generators, or EGs that start out negative range and peak in positive... you get the idea.

I've found the Batumi to be pretty useful in a small footprint. If you have alternatives then its redundant... but an option. If I'm looking for a "less basic" LFO, I have VCOs that get far down into that range and with some additional modulation can create some interesting LFOs.

I'm looking for a vector space quite some now; I'll definitely snatch one if it pops up in a good price!Seems like a well though out module..
Batumi and Zadar are nice dedicated LFOs/EGs.
I'm quite pleased with O&C quad LFOs which is less than half their price..
I don't quite like the envelopes on the O&C though, I don't like the Peaks' envelopes either; can't exactly express why they just don't feel "right"/snappy enough..
My other gripe with Batumi is that it's basic signals only and I think I'm quite covered on those with my two Stages..
I should take a closer look to Tides v2, it seems more useful than Tides v1.

Thank you again Ronin 1973

In between jobs and X-mas is looming in a not to far distance meaning some obligations money wise, so I'll bring your advice to myself into the next year some time.

Small builds are a lot harder to plan out than large builds. There are more factors stacking up against you. You need a lot of knowledge of modular to pull it off and get what you need out of your build.

If you're new to modular, it might seem counter-intuitive. But a larger build is going to be much more forgiving and give you what you want and need for more generalized and beginner purposes. A smaller set-up will be less expensive by the shear token that there are fewer components. But it's moot if the components you put together won't give you the functionality that you're going to need.

This is a common problem and misconception when planning your first rack: "oh, I'll go smaller to save some money." But you end up spending a fair amount of coin for results that will be less than pleasing unless you absolutely know what you're doing.

The K2 is on my short-list. I watched the Perfect Circuit demo of it. There are some modern applications and sounds you can get out of it... as well as some of those fat early 1980's funk and R&B sounds. But the Perfect Circuit demo seemed pretty tasty to me.

Modulation and an all-black rig.

Okay...
Worng Electronics Vector Space - combining modulation sources for interesting results
Xaoc Batumi and Poti in their alternate black face-plates - quad digital LFO with expander.
Xaoc Zadar in black face-plate. Quad digital envelope generator. An expander is also available for this (don't know name).

You can get smaller versions of most of the Mutable Instruments stuff if you're okay with smaller knobs.

The micro version of the Temps Utile is 8HP. It offers up to 6 channels of Euclidean rhythms, gate sequencing, clocks, clock dividing/multiplying, etc.

Maths makes for great slew limiting since the rising and falling slopes can be slewed at different rates. You could also use a Befaco Rampage instead. It depends what other features you'd also like to have on-tap.

3)
I PM'd this earlier as a bug prevented me from posting. MG fixed it so now it is here 8 )

Hi Ronin and thank's for your input.

I have several setts of glasses and a dual music stand light by M&K that can run by USB or normal power outlets.
Anyway, my case is filling up so I will get another case, probably the new Nifty by Cre8audio after x-mas some time.
I'm more into ambient stuff so complex rhythm's are not that important to me, but yes euclidean circles modules are wherry intriguing but I will prioritize a Intellijel VCA and Joranalog slew limiter.
In case you need a LPG i found this one:
https://www.siammodular.com/takaab-2lpg-dual-passive-low-pass-gate-eurorack-synthesizer-module
Btw. I got all my modules except the Data either secondhand or on sale, so the order of my acquisitions is not that logical.

EDITED Nov 18th 2019, 16:47

2)
I PM'd this earlier as a bug prevented me from posting. MG fixed it so now it is here : D

Hi W Mr Lugia
Still can't reply in the tread. Have reported this but no reply yet, so that's why I PM you again.
Thank's once again for your time and valuable input. Yes that Intelljel VCA is something I'v tried to get hold on a few times. Something with that boost that would be useful for connecting external devices.
The case is filling up so I will probably go for a Cre8audio Nifty case in the beginning of next year.
I will also build a tiny case for passive/unpowered modules. I got a quad Atten and the Takaab LPG looks interesting with it's great reviews and low price.
I also got Xaoc Warna and Belgrade for a wherry good price since last.
One last thing. I got all my modules except Data either secondhand or on sale until now.
Thank you once again.

EDITED Nov 18th 2019, 16:46

1)
I PM'd this earlier as a bug prevented me from posting. MG fixed it so now it is here : )

Hi and thank you for your comments. I wanted to reply in that tread, but for some reason the wheel of hell is just spinning.
Anyway, sorry that I did not make it clear that this is my current rack for real, and silly me also forgot to mention that I already got two Mother 32's and a Dreadbox Nyx + a Zoma Lyra 8 and pedals that I use with the rack.
I acquired all my modules on the secondhand market and sales except the Data. Clouds was the first after the second Mother. The Data is the newest and has actually thought and helped me much in getting my head around things. Maybe because I'm educated in visual arts and started with music late in life..
After I played with Volkas I can't stand tiny modules/potentiometers. My sight is also not that good anymore, that's why Data and not O'Tool.
After I'v filled up this case the plan is to get another 104hp, but before that I will probably swap Elements for Rings and maybe Contour is a bit to big for what it does..

EDITED Nov 18th 2019, 16:44

Yea! Thank you
Looks like a cat to me

EDITED Nov 18th 2019, 16:48

That is a test message that should proove, that the eternal spinning bug on quotes is fixed. E.G. comments are working again on rack view.

Only just been alerted to this thread.

Thanks to the following, all a pleasure to deal with, accurately described, and well packaged.

@GordonBleu for the Cursus Iteritas (it sounds evil)
@SleepyStevo for the 171-2v
@Silo99 for the 124
@Con_Radius for getting me started on this journey with my first purchase, Warps. It still surprises me on the daily what it's capable of

This would only require me to purchase a A-140-2 and build a second O&C and a kinks.
I think this would be a more balanced setup altough this time I feel I would require one or two signal generators but peaks could provide a starting point if a patch is geared towards percussion.

idk why but the image is still showing the old rack ..

EDITED Nov 17th 2019, 17:52

Hello,
Very new to Eurorack.
I am looking to make music that is melodic, percussive and experimental.
I want to have a lot of diversity, functionality in a small rack.
I will be using this with both my Arturia Keystep (step sequencer) and Lifeforms SV-1 Blackbox addition (so it will not use any hp space).
Any advice on additional modules not needed or needed, cross over that I might not be seeing etc.
Thank you.

Reminder to myself: add a note section to the racks

Hi Lugia and Ronin,

Thanks for your help and for all the information. I looked at replacing the 8 HP mixer with the Happy Nerding 6 HP one, but there still wasn't quite enough room for the Nebulae on the bottom. I was racking my brain, so to speak, and had a very unoriginal idea: adding more space. With a third, separate rack in front (Pittsburgh Cell DC with +12V 900mA), I'd have plenty of power for the ER-301 and the Catalyst, and could also play it separately from the rest of the rack: on the couch or at a cafe, or possibly even on a couch at a cafe.

With the top two rows, I added the Magneto and two Xaoc modules. The total +12V consumption for those two rows, (with the Nebulae on 5V) is 727mA, which seems to be sufficiently safe.

But is it too safe? I mean, from a sampling/sound design perspective? I realize this is much more subjective territory, but the Magneto is taking up a lot of real estate, relatively. And while I love the look of the two Xaoc modules together, and the potential for slow and evolving modulation, maybe I could replace one of them with something more wild and/or crazy? As for digital vs. analog modules, this rack seems to be on the extreme digital end, which I don't mind if it's not distractingly noisy.

I had planned on just getting the ER-301 and the ES-8 to play around with Mutable stuff on VCV Rack, but now I'm in full modular avarice mode. Realistically, there are going to be gaps on the rack while I try to make up my mind and get good deals. The ER-301 is the one module I'm married to, and which will hopefully arrive next month. The Catalyst and Expert Sleepers stuff has been ordered. The rest, except for the headphone out, is still mostly up in the air.

Thanks again for your help.

Tyson

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules__racks/data_sheet/1052041

EDITED Nov 17th 2019, 00:41

Thanks for your insight Lugia..
Really appreciate your constructive criticism and I'm not that proud to admit that I really liked how all these black and gold panels look together; but was often frustrated when patching as there was always something missing..

On to your points:

1) More VCAs (I have the 132-3s I could use and maybe get another Veils down the road as I like how clean it is)
2) Ditch Shelves and Rings; use Ripples and Wasp VCF for EQing/shaping sounds (gain some space for properly expanding)
Maybe ditch Edges too and build its 10hp version or just see if I'm missing anything.
3)I actually do have attenuverters from Blinds so I could maybe get some more (maths?!)
4) I like A-171-2 and plan to mod it for it to be more usable; maybe incorporate it to my main rack
5) no idea about the expert sleepers stuff; never used any of their modules but may need to take a closer look.
This may help to incorporate the modular in a hybrid setup more easily.
Could you please be more specific about utilities that you like/use ?
CV processing utilities, trigger generators etc?

Well, first off...it's really...ah...BLACK. But that's not good. Invariably, if you're creating a Eurorack along a certain look, then all you'll wind up with is a decorative prop. You've done a little bit better than that, but at the same time there's weird flaws here. A 4 x 84 rig with only four VCAs is definitely a flaw...especially if you're trying to do lots of percussive work, because you need LOTS of VCAs for that sort of thing unless you're using percussion-specific modules (Tiptop et al).

The MIDI implementation is frankly lousy. You're running two of these mBranes to get 8 channels; why not dump BOTH and go with something from Expert Sleepers that fits in a similar space but which can be expanded AND provide a return channel for timing, digital audio return, etc?

There's an Elements...and a Rings? OK with the Department of Redundancy Department, perhaps, but a waste of space otherwise. Lose one or the other.

I could go on, but really, I think you've poured waaaaay too much effort into creating the synth version of the 2001 Monolith here and not enough in basic, practical modular design. All of these Mutable and clone modules might look awesome, but by ignoring very basic, boring-as-hell utilities and basic practicalities in favor of optics, well, it's a nice prop, and you'll continue to be frustrated. For example, your modulation source issue...you actually DO have ample modulation here, but because you've omitted utility stuff such as attenuverters or CV/mod VCAs, it seems like there's not enough when the real fact is you've just not got ways to implement what you have already. And having some of these huge, sexy modules means you're ignoring much better options in your "junk" rack; for example, I would think that using the Doepfer Wasp and Yusynth Synthacon VCFs would provide way more timbral character than the two resonant filters on the Shelves. And so on.

Musical instruments might seem like a fashion statement, but consider: is it important that Ornette Coleman plays a plastic sax, or is it more important that it's Ornette playing said plastic sax? Don't worry about looks...but be a lot more concerned about the music.

Unusable. This contains no VCAs whatsoever. No proper envelope gens, either. Lots of snarrrrrrrzy modules there...but none of the ones needed to make this work. Small builds require smaller modules, and this one's got only one (Manhattan's CP3 clone). And if you've gone to the trouble of cramming 4ms's STS in there, why isn't the final mixer stereo? Or at least, why no stereo output?

Two options, both beginning with scrapping this build and starting over...

1) Start with a larger cab. If you want to use these honkin' big modules, well, bigger = more hp needed. Plus, if you want to use these honkin' big modules (notice I keep dinging on that point where this smaller build is concerned), you will need more space (as in twice as much, most likely) for the necessary modules you've omitted as well as other modules that will make this much easier to use. Seriously. Try assembling something like your original in VCV Rack and see how UNsatisfying it is to use a synth with next to zero control capabilities.

2) Start with a larger cab (again...yes, there's a pattern there), but only somewhat larger. Then scrap ALL of these big modules and try and reduce your panel sizes to something that makes more sense in a smaller build.

Actually, your best bet is to do both. But before that, get a copy of VCV Rack and examine why all of these "boring" modules are actually 100% necessary, and then spend some time studying other experienced builders' MG rigs. From both exercises, you'll notice a pattern that emerges regarding necessary modules, module combinations, setup and signal flow, and so on. But at the very least, do not drop a pile of $$$ on the above build. I can guarantee that you'll be extremely disappointed if you do.

Hi,
I'm about to finish my current 12U setup but often feel that I need more modulation and that I have more noise sources that I can use effectively.
This is a general duty rack but mostly oriented to drum duties maybe a synth line too and is supposed to be used along a machinedrum and a laptop running Ableton Live..
I was hoping to get into generative drum/percussion style patches to make things more interesting but probably need more probability modules and trigger generators so for now I'm just focusing on extra modulation.
I frequently patch it on its own and I seem to exhaust the modulators and VCAs pretty quickly so was thinking the following:
Get rid of Braids and Edges and replace them with NLC sloths, a second micro O&C and maybe a second Veils.
Another plan is to get the second O&C and a Pam's workout and start from there..
I could probably put aside Rings too since I'm not using it that much although it's nice for some additional bleeps.
Without Rings, Braids and Edges I think I could have a lot of space for extra modulation and maybe some more triggering options..
Any suggestions are welcome since I think I'm a bit stuck at this point.!

edit:
I also have a second rack in the making which temporarily serves as a storage rack for the modules I don't currently use a lot.

I could probably mix and match some modules between these 2racks if anyone has any ideas..Obvious choice would be the terminal tedium but I haven't finished it yet:P

EDITED Nov 16th 2019, 20:54

Just received the TiNRS Wobbler module from @nosp. Communication was friendly, shipping fast and the condition of the module is very good. Thanks!

Hello everyone,

Thinking of my first Eurorack. I'm looking for a little system composed by long life and good sounding modules (that's why I chose Synthesis Technology). I want to experiment with clock sources/melodies and see whats goin on.

What do you think? Am I missing something?

Looking for your suggestions, thanks in advance!

Marco