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I think this looks like a great case. There is a reasonable balance between sound generators (VCOs), effects, and modulation. I don't follow GarfieldModulars' comments about envelope generators (ADSR). I use Stages for envelopes all the time, and it is excellent for that (along with Maths, which I don't have).

I really really suggest expanding slowly, if at all possible. I know everybody says that, but I built out my case too quickly, and I am still learning what modules I really need (though, some of my first modules were Filter 8, Disting, and Stages, and they are great!) Garfield Modular is exactly right that you should get a case that is twice the size of what you think you need.

I would hold off with the Links. Get some TipTop Stackcables, and then you don't need the mult (and you have other mixers). I will bet you, that you think of more interesting uses for those 4hp (e.g., Make Noise, LxD; Happy Nerding, FX Aid; Steady State Fate, MMF; Noise Engineering, Viol Ruina; just for some very different ideas of other uses of those 4hp).

I don't see much "percussion", but you can load some drum samples on the Disting, and use it as a trigger based drum machine (it can do two at the time). That was my drums for a while.

EDIT: Typo

EDITED Sep 16th 2019, 06:44

Lugia is making a good point about discontinued modules. Mysteron from Make Noise is also discontinued.

To experiment with "sweeping strings and droning organs" have you tried turning down the tempo on Marbles and using a longer envelope on Plaits (I think you adjust the envelope with left button + morph, but it is in the manual)? Run some slow modulation (either directly from Marbles or through the slew) to the oscillator, and see where that takes you.

If that doesn't do it, I would look at a reverb / looping delay effect (I don't remember, if the Disting does that)

EDITED Aug 25th 2019, 17:52

It rocks. For instant polyrhythm I set EStep to 16 and set ETrig to modulate with CV 1, and then self-patch another of its outputs, e.g. set to a slow random or triangle, into CV 1 for modulation.

Two thoughts about sample and hold of external CVs: You could just get a dedicated s&h module. I have 2hp "s&h" next to Marbles, for exactly this reason. Also, take a look at Verbos' "Random Sampling". It has an ASR that allows you to sample external CVs (I have never used this module, though)

I am not sure if this is what you mean, but you can send a trigger into the right-hand-side "clock" jack on Marbles to externally trigger the s&h for all three random CVs.

No problem. The journey is the destination.

For a decent quantizer, I would go with a Disting mk4 ... :)

It is a bit of a joke, because Disting is basically the Swiss Army knife of modules. It does everything, including quantizing (as far as I remember, it has three different versions of quantizers), but it only does one thing at the time, and the interface is not the most accessible, to put it mildly.

It is great though, because it let's you play around with a quantizer, or an LFO, or a slew, or s&h, or logic, or a thousand other things, which help you understand how all of this works. If you find that you always use it as a quantizer, that's a good sign that you need a dedicated module for this, and then you will have a better sense of what features are important.

Just my two cents.

Edit: I just checked. The recent firmware has five different quantizer modes ... :)

EDITED Aug 16th 2019, 15:08

Overall it looks great. I don't know "Count," but it seems to have quite some overlap with PNW, so you may want to start with one or the other.

Right now, it will be hard to get a "melody" out of it, so on top of what you get from Count, PNW and Maths, you may want some more control over triggers and V/oct for Squid and Plaits. Depending on what you like, you could add a controller or sequencer (tons of options), a USB to CV module (say, FH2) for interfacing with a keyboard or computer, or some "generative" modules (random, s&h, quantizer, burst generator, logic, etc.)

EDITED Aug 16th 2019, 13:37

It is excellent. It covers all the basic waveforms (sine, square, saw, etc.). It has an internal VCA and envelope generator (and low-pass gate emulator) that make it very immediate to patch. It has more advanced modes, such as a 2-operator FM, wavetable oscillator, harmonic oscillator, and various percussion and noise sounds. It is great for experimenting with all these different oscillators and modulations. No brainer. Go for it.

edited: typo

EDITED Aug 15th 2019, 21:58

I think you are looking for a "switch". There are many different kinds with different features. Some suggestions (from simple to complex) are:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/doepfer-a-150

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/doepfer-a-151

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/erica-synths-pico-seqs

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/klavis-mixwitch

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ryo-paths

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/livestock-electronics-maze

I agree that the MI modules would be a great start all by themselves (I am a fan of MI). I don't see an envelope generator in there, though, but Plaits kind of has that built in. Staying within MI, for a final touch of modulation, you might consider adding either Stages or Tides.

You should be able to use one of the four channels of Veils as a "stand-alone" attenuator (when you plug into one of its outs, it breaks the normalization to the channel below), and Maths can also do this, so I think you are pretty well covered with attenuators.

My recommendation for an offset plus attenuverter would be Happy Nerding 3xMIA, which is awesome. But again, I think you are pretty well covered in this regard, and that wouldn't be my next step.

For modulation, I would go with Zadar rather than Batumi. Zadar is great as an envelope generator and for general modulation (but admittedly, I have never used Batumi).

But how are you generating frequencies and gates for the VCO? How about a sequencer, quantizer, or a signal & hold for that? Or a Midi to CV converter if you like to play a keyboard into it? Or Marbles, that would also take you some way in this direction.

"Sequencers" is a big topic. There are many types of sequencers and very different uses and strong opinions (Metropolis and Tirana II are pretty much at opposite ends of the spectrum). This has been debated extensively at Muffwiggler, and I can recommend reading through the threads over there.

A quick search gave the following places to start (but there are many others):

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=216839

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161153

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180779

There is also an extensive comparison of sequencers here:

http://doudoroff.com/sequencers/

EDITED May 19th 2019, 06:04

I actually think the Zadar is fine as a main ADSR, especially after the firmware update to 2.0 that lets you set a sustain point (so it is useable as ADSR rather than just AR). It is not the most immediately playable module though, and it does require some menu diving to use. But once you get into the menus, it has some fun envelopes that are difficult to generate otherwise, and it is very flexible (e.g., it lets you adjust envelope level which can be very useful, and which is not common for envelope generators).

Sewastopol II is fine as an I/O interface. The input has enormous gain, and it is really shines when amplifying very weak signals. E.g., when sending a passive electric bass into it, I only turn the input gain to 2-3 (out of 10). For line-level signals, the input gain is set well below 1, which can be a bit fiddly to dial in. The output gain is also solid, and I use it regularly to drive full-size headphones (this is not a documented feature, so YMMV). Third, it is an expensive and full-featured module, with a complex envelope follower and gate extractor. If you need that, it is great. If all you want to do is to send line-level signals in and out of you modular, something simpler may be easier to work with. One simpler module is Veils by Mutable Instruments. It is a 4x VCA with sufficient gain to bring line-level to modular level. Another module that many people recommend for line-level I/O duty (but that I have never used) is the Gozinta.

I hope this helps,
M

EDITED May 3rd 2019, 07:06

I think the Sputnik modules are not made anymore, and they may be hard to find, especially the Dual Oscillator.

The Quad VCF/VCA appears to still be in stock at Matttechmodular.co.uk

This looks great. Two small suggestions: First, I would drop the mult. You don't need it, and you can use a couple of stackcables instead. Second, you probably need a way to get interesting non-fluctuating pitch voltages (apart from the PNW's random voltage). For this, you could add an S&H (e.g., Doepfer A-148 or MI Kinks) or a quantizer (e.g., Doepfer A-156). Alternatively, you could add a Disting Mk 4, and it will do S&H, and quantizer, along with about a hundred other things that you will eventually realize that you need.

Other than that, start with a case that is way bigger than you ever imagine you will ever need. Go slow. Have fun. :)

2hp DC?

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/2hp-dc

Hi again - I spent some time with my Plaits, and as long as you adjust the coarse tuning, it actually works well with pretty much any voltage range that you throw at it, so positive or negative voltages, no problem.

Warning: I don't have the Morphagene, and be very careful about attaching the ribbon cable the right way. As far as I can tell from your picture, the side of the ribbon with the "red stripe" is facing the same way on both pictures (it is down). In that case, both ways are equally fine. As long as the side with the "red stripe" goes to the same pins on the module, it doesn't matter if the cable sticks out on the left or right side of the connector. Just make sure to connect the side of the ribbon with the red stripe to the busboard in the right direction (usually the side with the red stripe goes to -12V).

I have no experience with the Grandmother, but on page 38 in the manual it says:

"KB OUT RANGE - The voltage range of Grandmother’s KB OUT (pitch CV) jack can be either -5 to +5 Volts, or 0 to 10 Volts. To adjust the KB OUT Range setting, press the (C#2) key, and then use the first two white keys to select -5V to +5V (F0), or 0V to 10V (G0). The Default is -5V to +5V."

So it looks like you can set the KB OUT to the 0-10V range, which works better with Plaits.

I have the Boss tuner (I use it for electric bass), and it is fine. It is chromatic, and it can tune a "C", so it would work. I wouldn't recommend it, though.

For Eurorack, I would recommend a module with a built in Tuner instead. It is much easier to use in practice (I am not even sure the Boss pedal would work with modular signal levels). Two suggestions (I have both) are the Disting Mk 4 and the O'Tool+. Both are great, and both do a lot of other stuff. Personally, I use the O'Tool to tune. I can really recommend it, especially for the oscilloscope function. It is easy to dismiss a scope as being unnecessary when you are starting out (after all, it doesn't do anything to the sound), but it is fantastic for getting a window into what is actually going on in your modular.

I have the Rene2 with the Pam's. The Tempi and Pam's don't cover exactly the same ground. Lugia is right that Tempi is made to pair well with Rene2.

Pam's, on the other hand, also does LFOs, basic envelopes, random voltages (in addition to Euclidian and random rhythm, and all the other trigger stuff).

My sense is that Tempi is perhaps more immediately playable, and works better in live situations, interacting with Rene2. Pam's may be more "structured", and give more options when developing patches offline.

EDITED Mar 22nd 2019, 05:59

Ah - I didn't realize that you still had the Mother 32. In that case, it should be perfectly fine to use the "KB Output" and "Gate Output" from the Mother (note though, that the Mother outputs -5V to 5V for V/oct, and I believe that the Plaits need positive V, so you may need to go up five octaves on the Mother to get positive V/oct ... or you can use Maths to add offset). But to get started, I really don't think that you need anything else at the moment (if anything, the Disting).

Another good advise is to go slowly in the beginning. It really is impossible to anticipate what you will find interesting and what you will eventually need. So start with a few modules. Push them as far as you can. Then it will become clear where to go next. The journey is the destination. :)

EDITED Mar 19th 2019, 19:39

I think this looks like a great start, and you don't need much more to get going.

One suggestion would be to find a way to generate CVs for notes and triggers. For example, with an FH-2 from Expert Sleepers, you can connect a USB midi keyboard to trigger and play different notes on the Plaits. Without a keyboard, there are a couple of other options. You could add a small sequencer (e.g., SEEK from Copper Traces). You could add a bigger sequencer (e.g., Rene2) but then you would also need a clock (e.g., Pamela's New Workout), and then you are well on your way down the rabbit hole. You could add a quantizer, and let the Maths drive the tones. Or, you could add a random generator (e.g., Marbles from Mutable Instruments) for triggers and notes.

Other than that, I can recommend a Disting Mk IV. It is the Swiss army knife of modules. It can be a quantizer, random generator, sample player, recorder, envelope generator, LFO, VCO, or fifty other things, all by itself. It is great for learning what module you need next. E.g, if you always end up using it as an LFO, then you need a dedicated LFO.

EDITED Mar 19th 2019, 14:01

The power ribbon to the modules is most important. The -12V on the busboard should only be connected to -12V on a module. Twisting the ribbon and getting it wrong can do serious damage.

Other than that, the general advise is not to connect the output from one module to the output from another. But I have done exactly that myself, by accident, countless times when patching. The patches didn't work, but I have never done any damage to a module. I believe it was more of an issue with older modules. Newer modules are expected to be able to handle output to output.

I have also never had problems with voltages outside specified ranges, i.e., patching a negative voltage, say from a bipolar LFO, to the 1V/oct input on an oscillator that requires a positive voltage, or patching a 10V CV to an input that maxes out at 5V. It may not work as intended, but no damage is done.

Other than the power ribbon, don't worry, patch away ... :)

[edited for typos]

EDITED Mar 19th 2019, 08:16

I agree entirely with Ronin's description of sequencers. I use XAOC Tirana II as a simple utility sequencer. Rene2 as an "immediate" sequencer, and I just using NerdSeq as a more "structured" sequencer. They have very different strengths, and it is not a problem to use all of them together.

Tirana II is excellent for creating simple gates and CV changes during a patch. I use Rene2 for improvisation and melodies. With the knobs, buttons, and snakes, I find it very immediate and inspiring. I use NerdSeq for more fundamental building blocks of a song: rhythms, melodies, samples. It is less immediate and requires some planning and a more structured approach.

Very different machines. It comes down to taste and workflow.

I agree. The 1010 Toolbox seems like a much better deal.

• M

Flame now makes a knob/CV recorder called "quad-CV-recorder". It is a bit expensive, but I really like it.

• M

Many quantizers let you define your own scales by choosing a selection of tones from the standard 12 semitones. Some quantizers also work with microtonal tones. The ADDAC207 Intuitive Quantizer is an example of a full-featured quantizer with microtonal options.

Excessive???? Never! The journey is the destination.

You seem light on random. How about ADDAC 506?

EDITED Feb 8th 2019, 08:22

The two main voltages used in Eurorack are -12V and 12V. So there are typically three wires going from the power supply to the busboard, supplying -12V, 0V (ground), and +12V. The +12V is 12 volts higher than 0V (ground), and 0V (ground) is 12 volts higher than -12V. In many amplifier designs (and almost all modules have some sort of amplifier), it is convenient to have both positive 12V and negative 12V supplied.

+5V is not used by as many modules. +5V was a standard for digital electronics, so it tends to be digital modules that require it.

If you need +5V, some busboards must get it from the power supply (so they need both: -12V, 0V, +5V, and +12V). Other busboards can generate +5V themselves from the -12V, 0V, and +12V voltages.

No modules need -5V, and this voltage is never used.

When you connect modules, it is very very very important to line up the ribbon, so -12V on the module connects with -12V on the busbuard. Getting it wrong can destroy modules without reverse polarity protection.

Another observations is that you use many tiny modules (2hp and Pico). I am sure there are many different opinions about this (and I would be very interested in hearing Lugia's view), but I think it can be a problem, because: 1) they are hard to work with (tiny pots, cables too close together); 2) they are typically not fully featured compared to full size modules; and 3) they are relatively expensive for the functionality you get.

If you look through the list of the 100 Top Modules, rated by users, there is not a single 2hp or Pico module on this list.

I suspect you just want more functionality than what really fits in the case, and the easy fix is to just start with a bigger case, so you can get this functionality in regular sized modules.

I don't mean to say that one should never use tiny modules. They have their use, typically when you are running out of space and need to solve a particular problem. Of all things, I ended up with a 2hp, 3:1, because I needed switch, and it is great. But unless you have a particular reason, I don't think it is ideal to use them extensively from the beginning.

I agree that it would be useful with a clock to drive Rene. Your existing synths may already have one that you can use. In principle, any LFO will do. For more features, Tempi is a good choice. Another popular option is Pamela's NEW Workout.

I am not sure about the quantizer, though. Rene2 has a pretty good one built in, so that may not be as urgent.

Terrific, thanks. That's very encouraging. I'll get some more stackcables. :)

M

I am a noob getting into Eurorack, and I have spent some time googling and reading. I have put together a final "perfect rack." (Since it changes daily, this is obviously a bit of a joke).

The general idea is to start with something relatively simple that does a bit of everything. This will let me explore and develop my own style, and figure out which coast I prefer. I would love any comments or suggestions to help me along.

I also play electric bass, and I would like to plug it in and play along with the modular (I already have the Sewastopol II, and its "export" actually drives headphones, so it works well as an input / output module).

Thanks all for a great community.
M