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I am looking to power a monster sized system: 36 x 84hp rows.
For context, my System 55+ is 22% of my total build...
On recommendation from this forum, I am thinking that I will go with the Befaco PSUs (though open to other suggestions), but need to work out exactly how to do it. It seems the older Power Bus (which can daisy chain) or the newer Trolley Bus (which I think can be used with passive busses) are what I am going to need, but would like some advice on which is likely to be the best for me.
Would I be better off with a lower power, daisy chainable setup, or a higher power system with added busses?
How would each of these work in practice on (for example) the System 55 I have linked up above? And how would I scale up to the full size of my massive modular wall?
Big modular power is new to me, and I am trying to level up beyond the multiple TipTop PSUs I have been using up to this point. I particularly want to reduce the number of switches that I need to use to power up the beast.
You may want to consider adjusting the layout a bit. The oscillator driver would be best placed next to the oscillator, as these work together, and the sequential switch would be more useful near the sequential controller. The later would allow you to use your sequencer in 24 note mode, if you so chose
This case provides: +12 V @ 3 A, -12 V @ 1 A, and +5 V@ 1 A
The reason that your build has the 'actung' alert is because some of the power values have not been added in the builder, not because it uses too much power.
You have some nice units in there. I have a Behringer SYSTEM 100 (the backbone of this build), the 2600-VCO (as well as the full 2600 semi-modular), and I am currently building the SYSTEM 55 (where your fixed filter bank is from). All really good units :)
I should ask a few people around here why they use them. Maybe I just live in an odd place :D
I see you like grouping your modules by manufacturer/series, As you expand, you will probably not be splitting your modular up very often.
Yeah, I am still deciding how I will do this going forward. I want to be able to play my System 100 by itself with minimum fuss, I'll probably keep my Dreadbox modules together (asthetics), but everything else will need to be rearranged. As mentioned before, I have a lot of modules that are not in racks and I'll have to find a good workflow for them. I am far less interested in these ones being grouped by anything other than functionality.
It is going to be a significant task, especially working over (potentially) 14 rows, but a fun one! :)
won't the bands want to use your modular??? are you trying to hide it from them? hahaha
They may, but the thought of most musicians using my modular gear is terrifying... :P
Plus, my studio is not a dedicated synth lab. Every surface/rack/shelf/piece of furniture increases the complexity of getting things to sound the way that I want them, so everything that is not being used needs to be easily able to roll out of the room. I spend my life moving speaker cabs, amps, mic stands, racks of guitars etc in and out of the studio :D
I think the b-company sell a knock off version that's cheaper...
Yeah, they probably do, and it'll likely be fine for what I want to do. I should still investigate making my own as I might be able to save a fair bit of money.
What bands are going to want to record using your eurorack modules?
Hopefully none of them. Putting shiny toys in front of guitarists or drummers is rarely a good idea. (a) they break and/or try to lick everything they see, (b) they suddenly see 'options' and want to put modular sounds into every song because x band did it. 6 months later they are still in the studio...
Option paralysis is a really problem for a lot of bands, so there is no point creating that problem for yourself. 90% of the time bands simply need to record the material that they have already rehearsed, not add last minute changes based on whim.
And you are doing them a favour too. Studio time is not cheap.
I realized quickly that being confined to 19" in width wasn't ergonomic for anything over 5 minutes of noodling because I had to stand as well as bend down to reach anything not at eye-level
Yeah, that was a compromise that I had to make to get the lowest possible footprint, mobility and co-location. I figured that I'd mostly work on approximately 15ru at standing eye level, 15ru at sitting level (30 out of 42ru), and use less accessable lower levels for shelves, draws etc.
I was originally considering multiple 10 to 15ru racks, and even bought a couple of 10ru stackable/modular racks. While I like that I can use these either stacked on their side or upright -- with the modules facing me (horizontally, like a table top arrangement) -- they are far too deep (60cm) for my liking. I am now using them for my rackmount amps, with a compressor, EQ, limiter and gate in each rack, but also as mobile power outlets over the far side of the studio.
I used to have the four post type (like the one you are talking about), but found it's footprint to be far to big
I was originally looking for something other than a 4 post rack (such as a 2 post telecom rack), but actually found this one to have the smallest footprint (that was actually my primary criterion, along with having castors). It has an adjustable depth, and can either be 51cm or 41cm -- the depth I will use -- which is nice and thin. I was surprised that a 4 post rack was the thinnest option.
While using a rack intended for 19" rack gear is an odd idea
I find it interesting that it is only online that people find this odd. 80% of people that I know in real life use 19" racks, and the other 20% are aware of it as an option or have used them before. It must be a regional thing.
Or perhaps a live use thing? Being able to pull rows straight out of the studio rack to plug into travel racks/flight cases is a huge advantage.
I really like that this thing is on wheels, as I need to be able to roll it out of my studio when bands are in to record. I am also really happy now that I've worked out (in hidsight, the rather obvious fact) that I can mount modules on both sides of the rack - if I ever run out of space on the front. Obviously, 84ru is likely be more than I ever need, but it is there in case I do. Not that I am short on ru, but I could use it for overflow outboard gear if needed.
It is adjustable, so I can make it 410mm deep, which is plenty of room, but not too big of a footprint in the studio. I can also mount a power distribution board inside, and it is going to be easy to connect to my UPS via iec to iec.
I thought I'd share my experience in case anyone was interested in getting all of their modules in one spot.
Does anyone have any recommendations for powering a behemoth like this? I've been using microZeus for convenience sake, but want to move on. Preferably something that is modular, so that I can expand as my power needs grow.
JimHowell1970 suggest Befaco, which I'll look into. Are they modular in their design, or will I need multiples?
Also, is the TipTop Happy Ending still the cheapest way to get ears and z rails? Would it be cheaper to build my own?
I appreciate any thoughts or comments that you may have!!
Ok, I've taken a lot of the suggestions on board, and I might pick up another VCO and VCF. My setup would look as follows:
-- photo shows old rack - I cannot get it to update, so just follow the link --
I do have a MI Veils module that is free at the moment, so that could be a winner.
Alternatively, I have a Waldorf dual VCA that is 20hp, and would fit the spot perfectly. I also have a Waldorf 20hp compressor module that would fit directly below. Thoughts?
I probably won't go that way, but maybe.
I'll start looking into some utility modules when I get a chance
I have the following setup sketched out (and the modules ready to go), and I'm wondering what I should do next.
Unfortunately I cannot fit this on 2 rows, which would have been a lot neater. I am pretty happy with the layout, but appreciate any suggestions on position changes that will improve workflow.
I am also looking for suggestions for additional modules. I'd love to keep it all looking uniform, if at all possible, but realise that that is pretty unlikely. I have a random assortment of other modules lying around, so I'll have no trouble filling up the space, but I want something that both looks and sounds good.
Also, thoughts on powering? I could use 2 microZeus, but would consider trying different power options (I've only used the Zeus in the past).
Grateful for any ideas that you have!!
EDIT: I also have one rack unit free above this setup (not shown)
So, I bought the Veils module, along with the A-138D and A-183-3.
I am holding off on the ADDAC modules (I am considering both) until I can find them at a better price/availability. They were my lowest priority in this build anyway.
I found a good price on the Doepfer A-111-5 while looking around, so I picked up one of those up for a bit of fun :)
I'll let you know how it all comes together. I am not too worried if things aren't perfect first go. I'll just pull the unhappy module out and stick it somewhere else in the future.
In the same vein, I'll go with the A-138D, and pick up something with two channels if I need it down the track. I'm in no particular rush.
With regard to DAWs, it looks like Bitwig might be the best option (that I currently own). Otherwise I might need to buy something like Silent Way for use in VCV. I also have Cherry Audio's Voltage Modular and Softube's Modular - maybe they work? I'd have to take a look.
I have to say, it feels a lot better than it did before. I better understand the purpose of each modules in there now.
In my searching, I also came across the ADDAC 200PI. How does that compare to the Doepfer A-138D? I am guessing that the 138D is the better option, with the attenuation and amp, versus simply having two loops available.
As for DAWs, I primarily use either Reaper or Studio One, but also have the light versions of Ableton and Bitwig.
Thanks for all of the really useful advice. I will keep in mind the 'one module for one purpose' rule!
Perhaps a Doepfer A-138s as a stereo input for soft synths? They are a good price at the moment.
EDIT: actually, it appears that I'd need an Expert Sleepers module. Is that correct? I can send cv from my Presonus Q2626, but it seems that I'd need as ES module to receive it?
I am going to buy the Doepfer A-138d, but wonder if I should buy the Addac 301B in addition. I get the sense that they will both be useful. Thoughts?
I like the wet/dry dial on the ALM SBG, but the 1/4 jack just speak to me a bit more :)
Aside from that, the Veils module looks like a winner. I have a software version of it somewhere, but the physical one still seems worthwhile. I'd always planned to pick up the set of Mutable modules, when finances permitted.
I should be able to run my soft synths from my AI into the A-138d in my modular setup, shouldn't I? If not, what is the best route, as I have yet to try connecting them.
Lugia, thanks.
I actually have the A-119, so it is good to hear that it is a worthwhile module! I am thinking that the A-119 as my guitar input and the A-138d for my pedals should be compliamentary. And I am going to try out that pedal. For $40 it is worth a shot!
If/when I get around to putting more I/O modules into my setup (as it grows), I'll remember your advice on having them separate. I was attracted to having them all in one module for space/efficiency, but will now consider just an output.
Great, thanks! I will not bother with the AI for this build, nor worry about adding another VCO. I'll also have a look at some expression pedals.
I do have a couple of 1/4 to 1/8 cables - I use them between my mixer and AI. The thickness of the cables bothers me, as I am more used to thicker cables :D
Two quick questions, if you don't mind...
1) when would an AI module be useful?
2) can you recommend any interface modules for pedals?
Thanks, the Veils is a nice looking module, and it is hard to have too many VCAs...
I was thinking that the AI module would be useful as I plan to run guitar, soft and hard synths into my modular (1/4 to 1/4 makes that easiest), and running the modular through pedals. Also, perhaps, running back through a DI box, once I've mapped out a path.
That being what it is, is the AI module overkill? I've been wondering that myself... I already have two AIs (4i4 and Quantum 2626), so I am not sure it is needed?
I got some helpful advice last time I was here, and I am hoping to get some more on my new setups...
1) I have now collected the Dreadbox Chromatic set, and was hoping someone could confirm that I have it in a usable order :)
2) The other question relates to this mashup set. I have some space in it that I plan to fill as modules become available, but wanted to get some advice as to whether my choices are good ones.
I was thinking the following: Intellijel Designs Audio Interface II, Doepfer A-135-2 and something else (8hp left I think).
Ideally, I'd like my second set to be a relatively complete system in its own right, but I don't mind if it plugs some holes from the Dreadbox set instead, or gives me some extra firepower where needed. (please note that all of the modules in the two sets are already owned by me, so I'd rather use them all!)
Grateful for any advice I can get from those with much more experience. Thanks!
Very new to all of this still, so grateful for advice on what might be n00b questions...
I've only just got my first basic patch going, thanks to plragde, and I have noticed that my Pittsburgh Lifeforms ADSR doesn't seem to work. No red LED, and no effect when knobs are turned or keys pushed on my midi controller.
I am assuming that this is a bad sign...
I am comfortable that the right cables are plugged into the right jacks, so it shouldn't be that. I tried two other power ribbons, but got the same outcome.
Is there some way to test if this module is functional? I have a multimeter, but not an oscilloscope.
This module came out of 'display stock' for a store. This unit is also supposed to have reverse polarity protection, if that helps
Ok, I did what you said before, and it seemed to work fine today. Clearly that was operator error.
The only thing not working for me is the ADSR. The light is not on, and I am getting no changes from it or triggers. I will have to check the power cable is in, and that it is working.
Thanks for all of your assistance. You've got me past that first hurdle :)
I was trying to hear the VCO without anything else, as per your first step (I hadn't gotten to the second step yet). However, even with the AI (Focusrite 4i4) gain at zero, it still came in too hot. Hence, I ran it through the mixer first, as someone suggested to me before. I stopped at that point, as the buzzing was clearly a problem, and I didn't want to push on until it was rectified.
I am connecting to the AI via a 1/8 mono cable with a stereo 1/4 adapter on the end - it has been a drama getting a 1/8 to 1/4 mono cable from my supplier. Might that be part/all of my buzzing problem? I am not used to using 1/8 mono... This is connected into the front 1/8 jack with the adjustable gain.
I will ignore the buzzing for now, and push on with what you wrote before (and not plug outputs into outputs...)
Ok, I tried putting the Hysteria directly into the AI, and it went crazy and reset.
So I put the VCO into the mixer on the Eudemonia, and plugged the CV gate into the 'pulse' jack on the Hysteria. The pitch was still in the 1V/Oct jack on the Hysteria.
For the first time I heard something from pressing the keys, but there is still that buzz that is FAR louder than the notes. The notes were barely perceptible, but at least they were there!!
I'm guessing the buzz is some sort of ground loop or something? Either way, it is there even when the modular synth is switched off, but the mixer (Eudemonia) out is still connected to the AI.
I only really started playing with it a few days ago, but I am not having any luck getting sound out of it.
I understand much of the theory of what I am trying to do, but cannot get it to work in practice.
Part of the issue is that I am having trouble with the Dreadbox modules. Being multifunction, I am not entirely sure how to get the single function that I want to work, and all videos on how to use them are about more elaborate patches/sounds - not how to simply get them to work!
Amongst other attempts, I've been trying to run the Hysteria (VCO) output into the Lifeforms (ADSR) input, then this output into the Eudomonia (Mixer), but I am not sure how to get the VCA part engaged.
And this is all set up (possibly incorrectly) using CV from my Arturia KeyLabs 88 Mk2, from which I am running the gate signal to the trigger on the Lifeforms and the pitch to the 1V/Oct on the Hysteria. The Eudomonia out goes to my AI.
I only get a buzzing noise out of it, which I am sure is not from the synth itself. After a few minutes buzzing, it starts making some weird alien noises, but they go away as soon as I press a key on the Keylab.
As I said, I am just trying to find a basic patch that will make a noise, so that I can learn SOMETHING that actually works (and experiment from there), and whether my modules are working/if it is my fault. I assume that it is probably me.
I am very new to modular, and I have a bit of a weird system. As such, I am having some difficulty working out basic patches.
I'd really appreciate it if someone could show me some really basic patches for my system so that I can get started (also, so I can tell if it is 'operator error', or if something is not working properly).
the 4i4 is about as small an interface as I would ever recommend anyone to buy
this is due to the 4 outputs - 2 for monitors 2 for sending audio out to process and re-record - any smaller and you can't do this unless you don't want to listen to what you are doing - which makes life very difficult imo
-- JimHowell1970
Out of curiosity, does anyone use headphones out of their AI?
I almost exclusively use monitors for mixing, but curious if studio headphones are ok for just playing around?
That clarifies a few things. Hopefully I get clean audio by just dropping the gain and output (and using the correct cable).
If not, I'll be getting another module to sort it out. That was a question to which I had difficulty finding an answer on google: whether a dedicated output module was needed. So thanks!
I am using a Focusrite 4i4, which is a pretty versatile little unit. Great with all inputs so far, but haven't tried it with modular gear yet... I'll find out soon enough if it can handle it - I suspect it will.
I'll triple check my power ribbon, and give it a go!
Thanks for the module/rack upgrade recommendations too. I will await the next big sale, once I have had a good play with what I have :)
One final question: do I need to do anything special to get my sound out?
I have a floating ring CV patch cable that ends in a jack that will fit my audio interface. As far as I can tell, that should be enough as long as I don't do anything stupid with the gain on the AI. Please correct me if I am wrong...
My Arturia has a CV out on it, so I am 99% sure I can go directly from it to the modular. Again, let me know if I am wrong.
I'm very new to modular, and would love some feedback on my build:
Many of my modules are multi use (particularly the Dreadbox gear), so I think that I have everything needed to make some sound.
That being said, if there is something that I need, I'd be grateful for any suggestions. When you do suggest something, please state whether it is essential (E), useful (U), or just fun (F). As I said, I am new, and I am just trying to get a system up and working, and there is so much to consider!
