User Posts

It seems like the total price of grids dissapeared. Maybe intentional. Just wanted to mention it.
-- ambientvalent

have you checked your user settings? there's a switch in there to turn them on and off!

I thin the Pamela Pro Workout is a great Option. Instead of the Cosmotronic Delta for Envelopes / VCA would you think that the Javelin from WMD or the Sinc Bucina from NE might be also a good choice? Both modules are smaller and it would safe some space.

+1 on pams - personally I like to keep envelopes and vcas separate... more modular - if you want to replace the envelope or the vca you can without replacing the other... also a combined env/vca may be hardwired - so no using hte envelope for something other than the vca and no using the vca with something else to open it... not sure if this applies to whatever - I'd also recommend getting more vcas than you think you need - always useful for cv as well as audio...

AI is a fine choice. Plaits will have more algorithms and cover more sonic territory

Currently I also thinking replacing it with the Manis Iteritas, but I guess that is just preference and both will do great.

both have these have been dsicontinued due to the micro-processor used being discontinued - buy asap to avoid disappointment!

Ghost would be a great all-in-one choice for a small system. It's able to do all these FX at once, plus it has VCA and Filter built in.

I am wondering if I even need a dedicated FX section. My current plan is couple the rack with my Elektron Syntakt and will route the audio from it into the Syntakt. Syntakt has a dedicated FX processor with reverb, delay and sort of overdrive. You can even implement ducking here since my percussion will come from the Syntakt. Moreover, I have some effect pedals for guitar lying around like a Fuzz, Reverb or Flanger. So I could apply FX to the synth voice outside of the rack and give it some more character. Or am I missing something?

guitar pedals are great for modular - best to get a pedal interface module, though - so that the levels and impedence match - there are small inexpensive 2hp ones - AI synthesis for example - and much bigger ones, sometimes with more features, which you may or may not find useful... if your pedals have expression pedal inputs - then the ALM SBG is a good buy as this includes an expression pedal output... the only disadvantage of pedals over modules is that modules are easier to modulate with CV... which may or may not be important to you...

as I stated previously I don't have experience with Elektron devices - but make sure that the inputs can cope with the levels you are inputting... modular is very high and pedals are generally very low...

I always dump smaller modules out to the side and then rearrange the larger ones, so that the gaps are in the right places for the small ones...

I don't think the unicorn account is particularly expensive... it's 7 cents a day... and you don't have to pay if you don't want to, for whatever reason...

Hi there,

actual link to the rack and not just a crappy jpg:

I am planning a new rack that is aimed at minimal, monophonic techno basslines (and maybe leads). A brief disclaime, I know this is a small 62HP setup and there will be folks here that scream go bigger, but thats not the point of this setup. It is not supposed to be a standalone do-it-all solution. I want it to become a piece in my setup that is great a doing good and interesting basslines that I can keep evolving. I want to couple it with an Elektron Syntakt that takes care of all drum/percussion duties and the main clock. I hope you can help me figure out if I am missing a crucial part in this setup or should replace some modules against more versatile modules.

Normally I'd be advocating a much bigger rack, however as you are being mission specific... I'd probably go a bit bigger though! maybe the next size up pallete.. just so you have a bit of space for some utilities... they will add a lot of versatility to your patching for not a lot more cash...

Let me go through my thought process in this setup:
Sequencing: I want to use steppy and mimiteic digitalis since I love what people are doing with the combination, this is what really got me hooked into planning and building my own modular synth in the first place

hmmm - I'm not convinced of these modules... steppy is a trigger sequencer - ie very short pulses - not gates, which is generally what you want for envelopes... (some envelopes will work with triggers - make sure you have an envelope generator that can be triggered and not gated) & mimetic digitalis does not have a quantizer built in - which is fine, if you want to make non-12tet music, or you have an external quantizer, which you don't...

also as you have the midi module - I'd just take clock & pitch/gate sequencing from that - Syntakt can sequence pitch & gate as well as drums can't it??? idk I've never used any elektron gear!

Clock: I have the Horlogic Solum in here for clocking, wich seems to have nice capabilities of also splitting the clock

How are you intending to clock this? & what are you intending to trigger with the divided clock - there's not really enough to warrent it in the rack imo

LFO: Clep Diaz, but I am not 100% sure about it since the After Later Audio Clone of MI Tides can do LFO duties as well. Maybe you have some suggestions here.
Envelope: After Later Audio Clone of MI Tides

I would suggest you need both of these or at least both lfos and an envelope... personally I'd rather have more lfos and a single, simpler, smaller envelope (that can be triggered) - I'd also want attenuverters & offsets for the lfos - but tides can also be used as a vco...

Filter: After Later Audio Clone of MI Ripples

decent choice... if a bit vanilla... a wasp might be a better bet, as it would add grit, but might not fit in the case

Voice: Noise Engineering AI since I like what people do with it. Still I am not sure if I also should have a second Oscillator in here, maybe a simpler one?

maybe, but then you'rre running out of space & you'd need a mixer...

Reverb/Delay/Distortion: Noise Engineering Versio since it is flexible with the Firmware and sounds really cool.

remember you can only do 1 of these at a time... and have to take it out of the case & reflash to swap which sounds like a pain to me... personally I'd want at least 2 of reverb/delay/distortion (if not handled elsewhere)

so yeah.. you're missing some things & duplicating some things... I'd have a serious think about these things before parting with cash, if I were you

to me it seems very heavy on sound sources and modifiers - light on modulayion sources & utilities...

see my signature for firther details and food for thought!
-- JimHowell1970

Are there any in particular that you'd suggest, looking at my system?
-- SlunkLord

matrix mixers are always great, sequential switches, logic, clock dividers, sample and hold...

triple sloths is good - especially when combined (via a matrix mixer, perhaps) with other modulation sources... a quad lfo (or envelope generator) like batumi or zadar is great (especially with the expanders)...

if you haven't already download the 'maths illustrated supplement' and work your way through it many times - always thinking about what, why & how...

Tides has been great and I am not selling it. For now, it will just go into my 4ms Pod. It was one of the first 3 modules I got. Now I have plenty of other modulation sources that I didn't then.

don't forget tides is also a great sound source!!

tbh - I've sold very few modules - I just add cases!

For a rack not focused on drums and wanting this system to be completely self contained, would you get rid of the Tymp Legio?

probably...

I currently have MI Tides but will be removing that module to make room for the Waver and the Ts-L V2.
-- ShoutingParrot

why? - tides rocks (both versions)

along with what everyone else has said...

for guitar and bass input - most people want envelope following and gate extraction rather than pitch... as this is usually poor... the disting ex is one of the best at it though apparantly - I've not tried any pitch extraction, especially the b-cpompany module - but I do use envelope followerrs and gate extraction...

I have a very strong feeling that the 921B vco needs a 921A to actually work properly - do your research on this...

I never recommend either b-company or synthrotek on ethical grounds - don't support biggots!

strongly agree with the pam's suggestion - and not convinced a clock multiplier is a great thing - better to have a faster clock and divide - than a slower clock and multiply - especially if you want accurate timing (unless you are always going to use a very steady clock)

I'd go for less voices and more utilities - see my signature for hints - more versatility in patching for less expense...

doepfer and ladik are both solid and inexpensive (especially for utilities) and worth supporting as companies...

not convinced you need 2 dual ADSR modules... I'd lose 1 to make room for something more interetsing...

adefinitely a veils clone and a full size plaits clone over the b-company versions - After Later Audio and others make them and are worth supporting!

I'd also start with a minimum viable synth a single sound source, a single sound modifier, a modulation source (I like maths from Make Noise - another company worth supporting), a way to play and a way to listen plus some utilities - a quad cascading vca (veils) can be used as a mono output (& input for that matter - with disting ex for pitch/envelope following & maybe gate extraction - again a company worth supporting)

to me it seems very heavy on sound sources and modifiers - light on modulayion sources & utilities...

see my signature for firther details and food for thought!

Hi,
If you buy them in the exact size you will have the advantage of having the fit for the cable tab.
Ferran.
-- ferranadsr

but only if you buy shrouded headers - which is great if they fit... not so great when they don't!

also there's no problem buying longer ones and cutting them to size... you may lose a pin or 2 though... often the 40pin lengths are only a little bit more expensive than 8 pin or 10 pin... pitch is usually 2.54mm... mouser, tayda, rme, farrell all regularly stocck them...

@Sweelinck's link above directs to the same image as displayed...

for future reference copy & paste the url...

things I'd point out - the chord organ might be difficult to source... the teensy 3.2 is very difficult to find (probably end of lifed)

and the instruo ceis is quite expensive - you might want to look at the befaco vc adsr & it couldt be a good alternative and is available as a kit (or pcb/panel set)

& again the translation, from google (it literally takes 30 seconds), please include this in future, for the wider community...

"Hi, I have it and it works.
can you specify the problem? or make a video? maybe it's defective?

the 2hp verb is the bomb, I don't think I'll ever sell it, in fact maybe I'll buy others. It's a reverb though, not a delay"

I always do my research before buying any gear, read the manual and some reviews, check out everything you can find on youtube.

-- GunnarWaage

this is very good advice... far better than any recommendation for a module that some random person on the internet can give...

I finally worked out a final solution for my piles of modules that aren't in racks...

I bought a 42ru rack: https://www.titanav.co/products/titan-av-42ru-19-adjustable-open-rack

I really like that this thing is on wheels, as I need to be able to roll it out of my studio when bands are in to record.

won't the bands want to use your modular??? are you trying to hide it from them? hahaha

JimHowell1970 suggest Befaco, which I'll look into. Are they modular in their design, or will I need multiples?

indeed I do... they're not modular and you'd need multiples - one per 2 or 3 rows & somewhere to mount them - shelves perhaps...

Also, is the TipTop Happy Ending still the cheapest way to get ears and z rails? Would it be cheaper to build my own?

I'd have thought that buying rails and inserts (or nuts, if you prefer) and ears separately would be cheapest - but don't know... also depends where you are etc... I think the b-company sell a knock off version that's cheaper...

I'm not a big fan of the modular in a module approach... it's not imo a very modular approach imo - more synthesis with modules than modular synthesis...

I'd much rather have actual modules or a es8 or es9 and use vcv rack... so I'd go for the FX Aid Pro every time over the hector...

I'm not sure you need both the midi -> cv module and Hermod + (hermod has midi->cv capabilities)

neither am I a big fan of the oxi coral and similar modules that are better played with midi and can do lots of voices... although at least you'll be able to play it with the hermod plus... mainly because I'd want separate chords, bassline and lead modules and the support modules that are needed for them - vcas, filters etc... because that's where modular actually gets to be worth it... at a minimum I'd want more filters - at least a dual/stereo one for the oxi... probably another for the sampler... don't see much point in a mono filter in thos set up

could also do with some vcas (a quad cascading one would be a good investment) and some other utilities - possibly a matrix mixer...

https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=235356

The only thing I don't like about it is that the tuning knobs are big and close to the FM controls (making it easy to knock the tuning out).
-- PragmaticusMax

you could always take the knobs off... pots are usable without them but it's much more difficult to knock them out of tune that way...

it's to do with how we perceive loudness... our brains work exponentially...

so linear is usually for cv and exponential for audio...

althoug it also depends on the envelope that you feed them... an expenential envelope into a linear vca will behave in the same way as an exponential vca...

personally I'd get a veils clone instead (even if it means waiting a short while before buying it) - does both linear and exponential + loads more interesting features + more channels - which is always good (you can never have e nough vcas) and probably cheaper per channel!

have you thought about patching a complex oscillator with the modules you'e already got... it'll probably get you a more distinctive and different sound than buying an off the shelf one... I'd do some research on this and play around with them, at the very least it will help you narrow down what you want from a complex oscillator, in terms of the built in functionality - wavefiolder, fm, am, pm etc....

guitar input...

I've got both the doepfer a-119 (noisy - can be upgraded with a simple & cheap chip swap - no soldering - but still noisy, just less so - I particularly like it for fuzz bass) & the befaco instrument interface (not noisy and can handle phantom powered mics)

both have envelope followers and gate extractors - which are very handy...

If you're primarily going to add new modules then I'd power them from the a wall wart (hopefully a few per wall wart)... there's a module for distribution of this, but it might be better to have a hole in the back of the case...

Chromagnon definitely power from a wall wart - it'll probably be a massive power hog

with the psu3s - I think they're definitely underpowered at 84hp/9u for video (& imo digital modules) - I'd probablyt want 1 every 84hp/6u - but it really depends on if you're going to use predominantly analogue modules and/or use the edicated power supply for video... so maybe a bit less than that... if you're guesstimating power consumption 10mA/hp for each of the +ve & -ve 12v rails is a good rule of thumb for video modules (remember to leave some headroom)

mixing audio and video in a single case is a good idea... utilities especially can be used for both... I made a series of instagram videos #lzxveurorack, a while back, to illustrate various non-video modules working in video...

what are you using for your vector scanning??

which video synthesis modules are you intending to use?

which case size?

how many psu3?

the psu3 was one of the recommended power supplies for lzx video modules... but note that video modules are usually power hungry... new lzx factory built modules can be run directly from a 12v wall wart - or via a splitter module (or cable) or from a eurorack power supply... so it really depends what you intend to run and what else. is in the case...

I've heard a lot of people having issues with doepfer midi->cv modules - I'd go for a mutant brain instead...

otherwise the top row kind of makes some sense... although you'd massively benefit from some vcas and some modulation sources and a second vco (to take advantage of the thru 0 fm on the one you have)...

the trigger sequencer makes no sense though... it takes up a huge amount of space & what are you triggering???? please explain your use case/reasoning for this....

& why 2 clock dividers on top of the trigger sequencer? what are you imagining using them for?

what type of music are you trying to make?

what other gear do you have?

these answers will help us make sense of the rack....

Hi! I've read the whole comment. First, I would kiss your forehead to express how much I appreciate it... however my style of expressing emotions could be weird in certain circumstances like this particular one... So... Thanks very much!

Thanks... is more than enough!!!

top row:

doepfer are not well known for midi -> cv modules... I'd not worry about this to start with... ie I'd drop the module...

Mutant Brain... Instant replacement!

the oscillators you've chosen... I'd probably want a 3rd - something different - either as the source for FM on one of these, or as a separate sound source...

I'm not convinced by the audio divider... what's your imagined use case for this?

I thought it could be nice (for bass and leads?) to replicate to different octaves. I like that sound much. Or to simply control different LFOs.

yeah maybe... but I'd just go for a clock divider to start...

not convinced by the sequencer... I think there are better options out there... so why this one? also NB it has no quantizer built in so you need either a dual one - or a sequencer module with quantisation built in... also needs a clock input... so either you need a sequencer with clock built in or you'll need an external clock - if you want to sync to a DAW, via midi you'd need one of the doepfer modules that specifies sync - ie not the one you chose - or a different midi->cv module (mutant brain - is a very good option) - or sync via audio (I use a kick sample) - also this sequencer massively benefits from pairing with the controller...

In principle, I will never use a DAW since my aim is to create everything by myself as much analogically as I can. But you are right. If there are options with some things included I should take a look at them. For example, Erica's one and Metropolix are digital, and that is not a "No" for me, but is a "mm... I don't know..." (even if they offer such flexibility)... So I'll think about them. That's the reason why I preferred Doepfer one: 2x8 steps, even needing external modules. A bit awful, but... Again, I'll think about it and see what's more out there.

the whole thing is a specialised analogue computer... that some components are digital is irrelevant imo - use whatever modules are best for the purpose/function... sometimes it will be analogue, sometimes it will be digital...

so I wouldn't get hung up on analog v digital - there are lots of great digital modules... digital sound sources sound great through analog filters, digital sequencers are not in the audio path... and digital effects can get you a lot of options (& therefore potentially more interesting results) for less space and cash than analog ones (in a lot of cases)

if you're not going to use a DAW (in terms of modular I only use mine for recording and sync - so everything is in time, but I do also use soft synths and record guitars, vocals etc with it and edit, process and mix in there too) then I'd get a clock source - unless you already have a clock! as I said, you'll want a quantizer, a clock and probably the controller for the a-155, if you decide to stick with it & possibly a second a-155 (& probably another sequencer and a precision adder or 2 - for transposition)

middle row:

a lot of filters... but no other effects, I'd swap some out... add a multi-effect unit... an fx aid pro possibly 2... if 2 I'd only get 1 pro - the pro can be used as a cheat sheet for the other - delay and reverb (at a minimum) is a useful combination

Haha! I have just seen the Aid pro, and it is a patology of mine... I hate digital screens haha. Whatever, I'll check modules like those! Thank you again! Of course they are missing!

in this case the screen on the fx aid pro makes it 1000 * more useful than it's little brothers - a bank of LED indicators is horrible as it's difficult to remember which algo is where....

I'd not spend money on a b-company fixed filter bank... if I wanted something similar I'd wait and buy a better one at a later date... I'd put a matrix mixer in it's place

Sure you are right!

the 2 mixers and 2 mults next to each other will be annoying... I'd also replace one of the mixers with a happy nerding 3 * MIA - not only can it mix, but it also can be used for attenuation/attenuversion/offset - which is incredibly useful to have (& yes I know that Maths has these - but you will almost definitely want to use them whilst you are using maths for something more interesting)

About the order... there will be too much variability in the next month haha, and probably years haha. Buy I'll consider the change! And the offset was needed and forgotten! Thanks again.

do you really need 2 adsrs? I'd look for a dual in the same space... or one that's voltage controlled, oroften less complex envelope generators work well in modular... ADs for example...

Good point. I'll check!

not only are there some adsrs that are voltage controlled, there are some that have gate outputs per stage... also really useful....

ah some vcas... not enough... get at least a quad cascading one... a veils clone, perhaps... vcas are for cv as well as audio... and even for audio they are for more than just shaping notes...

I think I don't appreciate them yet, but I'll consider all recommendations... all of you point that out like if I was crazy haha. I am, but I'll do!

vcas are needed if you want to shape notes - oscillator -> vca in/ envelope generator -> vca cv in/vca out -> filter (or filter before vca)... but they are also useful for controlling levels over time, gently varying the gain of a drone and adjusting the amount of a modulation signal being sent to a modulation input (& lots of other things) - they're modular synth 101 - it doesn't mean you absolutely need them, but they do make life much simpler... unless you have lots of hands to control many different knobs at the same time...

bottom row:

a-119 - it's useful, but noisy

Will check replacements.

I like the befaco instrument interface... I have both and use both... it's not that the a-119 is bad, it's just not clean... the befaco is much cleaner...

dual slew - might be redundant (& I dislike this word with regard to modular) - maths is a dual slew! I'd drop this
ring mod... better to get the dual vc polarizer... it can do ring mod and other things and it's the same size...
maths (great module - download the 'maths illustrated manual' (work through it multiple times thinking about what, why & how) and a single lfo are not really enough modulation sources... I'd get a batumi & expander...
personally I'm not a big fan of scopes... I have an es8 so could use 1 in vcv rack and I also have 1 in the fx aid pro... neither of which i use that much... you can listen to any cv... just send it through a vcos pitch input...

I'll do! And I see the necessity of seeing the waves to understand what a module is doing, so for me an oscilloscope is a must haha.

that's also another reason why the fx aid pro is useful... it includes a basic scope... which you can use whilst processing another signal...

mixer - you have all those filters - eq is a bit redundant (urgh) - I'd get a better mixer... again b-company (I try as much as humanly possible to avoid giving money to Uli!) if you want relatively inexpensive & absolutely must have EQ... then I'd go for an external mixer... I have an inexpensive yamaha mg12, which handles modular levels well - I wouldn't get one with fx built in though, just the base model - this will also save some rack space

Sure! My idea was to have a nice output and didn't find any of my likings... that was just to know I need it haha. Sorry!

I have a tesseract modular tex-mix - which is expandable (4 mono or stereo channels at a time)... and inexpensive... currently mine is 12 mono channels & 4 stereo channels - it has cue, mutes, vcas (mono channels), headphones and 2 send/returns - all very useful features!!!

remember you don't have to buy all of this at once - buy the case and a minimum viable synth and add modules slowly, one or two at a time... you will learn more... and get more from your modular... plus as no plan survives contact with the enemy, which in this case is you... your plans/wants/needs will change over time... & the slower you go, the fewer side tracks you'll take - as you will find out what you are missing and then add it, rather than buying modules you find you don't use...

My economy allows me to mount it at a not very fast pace... so I considered it from the beginning haha. Since I have the 2600, I'll buy what can be an extra to it and increase it slowly!
-- sambarroso

addendum to above... as I had the edit window open overnight and didn't see the other replies before posting...

lots of good advice from others above!

I see you are building your own case:

what are you considering for a power supply? I really like the befaco excalibus - relatively cheap and quiet (most of my diy cases use these) - it's also available DIY - simple but tedious build (lots of power headers with 16 pins each) I'd recommend 1 per 6u...

I'd build 6u cases rather than 9u or a 9u and a 6u - all my DIY cases are 9u and they're a bit unwieldy... personally I find 6u/104hp as the best compromise... also it means that you can have 1 case vertical (or at an angle - 9u) and 1 horizontal in front (which I find easiest)

2600 is a good layout... I do something similar... sound sources at the top, modulation sources below that, then sound momdifiers, then control/sequencing/end of chain mixer at the bottom/front - utilities distrributed throughout

NP... what I do is copy url & paste into post...

whilst you seem to have at least managed to get a decent mix of sounds sources, sound modifiers, modualtion sources and utilities... there's a lot of things I'd do differently... see my signature for some hints...

top row:

doepfer are not well known for midi -> cv modules... I'd not worry about this to start with... ie I'd drop the module...

the oscillators you've chosen... I'd probably want a 3rd - something different - either as the source for FM on one of these, or as a separate sound source...

I'm not convinced by the audio divider... what's your imagined use case for this?

clock divider ok - I use my clock divider as a squarewave sub-bass... audio in, square wave out (/2 =-1ve, /4 =-2ve) -> vca & filter

not convinced by the sequencer... I think there are better options out there... so why this one? also NB it has no quantizer built in so you need either a dual one - or a sequencer module with quantisation built in... also needs a clock input... so either you need a sequencer with clock built in or you'll need an external clock - if you want to sync to a DAW, via midi you'd need one of the doepfer modules that specifies sync - ie not the one you chose - or a different midi->cv module (mutant brain - is a very good option) - or sync via audio (I use a kick sample) - also this sequencer massively benefits from pairing with the controller...

middle row:

a lot of filters... but no other effects, I'd swap some out... add a multi-effect unit... an fx aid pro possibly 2... if 2 I'd only get 1 pro - the pro can be used as a cheat sheet for the other - delay and reverb (at a minimum) is a useful combination

I'd not spend money on a b-company fixed filter bank... if I wanted something similar I'd wait and buy a better one at a later date... I'd put a matrix mixer in it's place

the 2 mixers and 2 mults next to each other will be annoying... I'd also replace one of the mixers with a happy nerding 3 * MIA - not only can it mix, but it also can be used for attenuation/attenuversion/offset - which is incredibly useful to have (& yes I know that Maths has these - but you will almost definitely want to use them whilst you are using maths for something more interesting)

do you really need 2 adsrs? I'd look for a dual in the same space... or one that's voltage controlled, oroften less complex envelope generators work well in modular... ADs for example...

ah some vcas... not enough... get at least a quad cascading one... a veils clone, perhaps... vcas are for cv as well as audio... and even for audio they are for more than just shaping notes...

bottom row:

a-119 - it's useful, but noisy

dual slew - might be redundant (& I dislike this word with regard to modular) - maths is a dual slew! I'd drop this

ring mod... better to get the dual vc polarizer... it can do ring mod and other things and it's the same size...

maths (great module - download the 'maths illustrated manual' (work through it multiple times thinking about what, why & how) and a single lfo are not really enough modulation sources... I'd get a batumi & expander...

personally I'm not a big fan of scopes... I have an es8 so could use 1 in vcv rack and I also have 1 in the fx aid pro... neither of which i use that much... you can listen to any cv... just send it through a vcos pitch input...

mixer - you have all those filters - eq is a bit redundant (urgh) - I'd get a better mixer... again b-company (I try as much as humanly possible to avoid giving money to Uli!) if you want relatively inexpensive & absolutely must have EQ... then I'd go for an external mixer... I have an inexpensive yamaha mg12, which handles modular levels well - I wouldn't get one with fx built in though, just the base model - this will also save some rack space

so a 1/2 decent job... it's very 'east coast' subtractive dual mono-synth like... could probably do with a few different modules added - some logic and

whilst I understand that a full 9u rack can seem expensive (& this is probably 1 of the least expensive I've seen) it's not that bad... especially when compared to a lot of other musical instruments - and definitely not when compared to professional level custom instruments - try checking out cello bows (good ones cost multiples of this rack) - or to a lot of other hobbies (golf, scuba diving, skiing etc etc)

it's always useful to remember, apart from the b-company all eurorack manufacturers are tiny companies with very small runs of modules (250 is a very big run for most of them) & they are often manufactured in EU or North America - which is why they might appear 'expensive' - they're not FMCG - they're more slow moving niche goods

remember you don't have to buy all of this at once - buy the case and a minimum viable synth and add modules slowly, one or two at a time... you will learn more... and get more from your modular... plus as no plan survives contact with the enemy, which in this case is you... your plans/wants/needs will change over time... & the slower you go, the fewer side tracks you'll take - as you will find out what you are missing and then add it, rather than buying modules you find you don't use...

sometimes the more expensive module is cheaper in the long run - sequencers are a good example - for example a used metropolix might be a better buy than the a-155, as a starter sequencer, as it includes an internal clock and has a quantizer built in... amongst a load of other features - or a used erica black sequencer... more channels - so still good if/when you get more voices in the future, plus it has a modulation lane on each channel, quantisation, midi in, more steps etc etc

a minimum viable synth is a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to play and a way to listen... I'd add some basic utilities (the 3 * MIA, a quad cascading vca, a mult etc)

& the link....

cos jpgs are crap for this!

EDITED Sep 25th 2023, 21:23

Thanks for the input - I was worried about the LED menu and having to work out what effect was chosen. The pro looks fantastic and the demo's have been very enjoyable - so many options. The hp size is a worry at the moment as it's a bit of a beast but I hope to change my B - Brains for a smaller plaits clone and get some hp back.

I wouldn't go much smaller - a full size clone will save you 4hp... & I wouldn't go any smaller - otherwise you'll be into trimmers instead of proper pots and issues associated with them, plus poor ergonomics.... personally I wouldn't worry too much abou thtis - I'd put the money you'd spend on this towards a bigger case - and then not worry too much about the size of the modules - more about what they do...

What I have researched so far regarding effects modules has lead me to 2 options at the moment due to the hp size and possible cost.

FX AID XL from Happy Nerding Vs Endorphin.es Milky Way - both at 6hp

The Milky Way with 16 effects is half of the XL

The search will continue...
-- EuroBadger

I have both the fx aid xl and the pro...

the biggest advantage the fx aid has over the milky way is that there are 200 algos available to load into 32 slots... not just 32 algos... or 16 in the case of the milky way...

the xl is very frustrating to work with though due to the use of LEDs as indicators for which slot is selected and needing a pdf to determine which algo is loaded in which slot...

seriously the pro is worth the extra hp and cost... it has almost all the algos pre loaded and most importantly has a screen so you can tell which algo is selected.... amongst other more useful features...

the xl is a great 2nd fx aid... you can set the 1st 32 slots on both to be the same - so the pro is a cheat sheet...

it may be a case of wait for the second case before getting one...but it is worth it...

Ahh thise look great cheers. I realised I only actually would need one as the case actually can do 28 modules and I have 29 lol. Ill prob just chop a ribbon though.
-- Chromat1c

what do you mean by 'chop a ribbon'? I wouldn't cut one...

the simplest way to do what you want is to crimp an extra idc connector onto a longer existing ribbon cable... videos available on youtube - no need for specialist equiment - just the 10 pin idc connector & some gentle even pressure, from a vice (or a large book)... just make sure you have the connector the right way round (triangle to red line) and leave plenty of slack...

nb buying the idc connector may cost nearly as much as the pre-made cable, if that's all you are buying, & if you are in any way nervous about this... just spend the few quid on the pre-made cable...

EDITED Sep 23rd 2023, 13:28

I gefinitely agree with @Sweelinck, get a bigger case... and as you have the minibrute, I'd definitely recommend the rackbrute 6u... so they can be joined together as a single unit...

The problems with a smaller case like this are mostly that you will almost definitely want more modules very quickly... that's not to say that you'll want to fill the case in a week (you might), but you almost definitely will in the future...

I also somewhat agree with him on the modules are tailored towards particular genres, but I'm more of the thought that any module can be used for any genre... it's not the module that makes the music, it's the artist... but it is a good idea to indicate the sort of music you want to make...

now onto your choices of modules...

1 psychosis... why a stereo mixer? neither the minibrute or the hysteria & vcf combo are stereo... I guess (manual) panning and effects... but there's not a lot of control over either... better to split these 2 out and get something with cv-able panning... these are modules... better to have 1 module do 1 thing, why? so if you get bored or outgrow that 1 thing you can swap it... so better a mixer and an effects unit... for an effects module - the fx aid pro, is as good as anything for, price, size, sound quality and versatility... the smaller ones are ok.. but their interface is severely compromised by not having a display...

2 a doepfer dual adsr... why? what are you going to use the adsr for? using the filter as a pseudo vca? that takes 1 channel... so the other will be used for what?

3 hysteria... ok it's a vco... your only source of pitch information is the minibrute, which will already be quantized, so the quantize function is pointless, taking into account the rest of the modules present...

4 a filter ok

BUT what's missing... the important bits... particularly vcas and modulation at this stage...

for vcas: a quad cascading vca is a worthwhile investment (a veils clone for example) - it can also double up as a mono mixer... vcas are one of the fundamental building blocks of synthesis... they are massively important for note shaping and gain control within synthesizers and can also be used for modulation sources, to control the amount of modulation being sent to a module, with another modulation source (modulating modulation - a very powerful technique)

modulation: I'd rather have a decent quad lfo (batumi perhaps) or a good function generator (maths, perhaps) - or even better both - than an adsr in a limited set of modules to combine with a minibrute (the minibrute already has an adsr & no real way of creating a second gate to drive a second envelope generator)

maths - download the 'maths illustrated supplement' this is imo by far the most useful piece of documentation for eurorack modules... buy a maths and work your way through it... concentrating on what, why and how the patches work... this will not only introduce you to patch programming maths, but will also serve as a primer for patching modular synthesizers in general

if you only have the money for this case and this set f modules... I'd buy the rackbrute and a maths... you'll learn more and be able to do more... and then add a second voice in the future when you can afford one...

also take a look at my signature - read it, think about it, think some more, ask questions, think some more and then redesign your rack taking into account advice (not just mine), etc, or don't...

have you tried reflashing it?

@cj18 great start

I really think that the patch bay would benefit from being in the middle row...

Unfortunately I cannot fit this on 2 rows, which would have been a lot neater.

definitely not something I'd worry about

I am pretty happy with the layout, but appreciate any suggestions on position changes that will improve workflow.

I'd move the vcas up to the top row, the mixer down to the bottom row and the middle 3 of the bottom row to the middle row...

I am also looking for suggestions for additional modules. I'd love to keep it all looking uniform, if at all possible, but realise that that is pretty unlikely. I have a random assortment of other modules lying around, so I'll have no trouble filling up the space, but I want something that both looks and sounds good.

I'd want more utilities... matrix mixer, more vcas (probably a quad cascading one like a veils clone or similar, they're for cv as well as audio), at least one clock divider (square wave sub bass from audio: /2 = -1ve, /4 = -2ve) , some logic, mults, at least a dual quantizer, attenuation/attenuversion/offset (happy nerding 3 * mia for example) etc

Possibly a Pams Pro... not just clock but also lots of triggers, gates, modulation... I'd keep the clock divider above (for the reason stated) and the logic (useful outside of Pams) - but a couple of the Pams channels could be used for quantization - and/or quantized stepped random...

An extra filter might be an idea... something that sounds different...

Also, thoughts on powering? I could use 2 microZeus, but would consider trying different power options (I've only used the Zeus in the past).

I like befaco power supplies - especially the excalibus... simple, but tedious DIY, or ready built... much quieter than the uZeus and avoids the rack wart...

just bear in mind... no plan survives contact with the enemy... in this case you are the enemy...

countless times I've seen people with this attitude to start & countless times I've seen them either give up (and sell up or put the modular in a cupboard) or buy a bigger case very shortly after starting...

this is almost always caused by expecting too much from too little... constraints can be good, but too much constraint is constraining...

it's not a big deal there are many paths and learning by your own mistakes is an incredibly good one... although imo, learning from others mistakes, is significantly better...

anyway... good luck and have fun!!

hmm... I hope this is just a first pass at trying to design a modular synthesizer!

you are trying to do too much in too small a space without the support modules that are necessary to get the most out of the modules...

ie - too mnay sound sources, so missing a lot of useful (by that I meam necessary) things, particularly modulation & utilities...

I can almost definitely see what you're trying to do - 2/3 voices, some modulation, some sequencing an an effect... but it's fundamentally lacking... if you went and bought this - you would be seriously disappointed, not only because it wouldn't actually do the things you want it to, and possibly to the extent that it might be up on reverb (or elsewhere almost immediately), or in the closet gathering dust, but even if that wasnt' the case, because there's not enough space for the support modules that are actually needed to get it to do what you want...

modulation - one of the fundamentals of modular synthesis... modulate your modules & modulate your modulation... a single lfo is not enough!!

utilities: see my signature... more mixing - sub mixers for the vcos to mix them before filtering/further processing... and that's just really the beginning - I see how newbies fail at this - these components of a synthesizer are either hidden or just missing from fixed-architecture synthesizers, but they're way more important in modular than anything else, in lots of ways, they really take patching from 1:1 (ie patch cable out to patch cable in) to 1:N - patch cable out to lots of inputs - & in doing so multing, mixing and mangling those signals - this is where modular synthesis really shines, especially when combined with adequate amounts of modulation sources!!!

envelope generators... a lot of envelope generators - but only a single gate source (the sequencer) to trigger them...

sequencing - the sequencer is a single oupput... how are you envisaging sending pitch information to all the vcos? and is the same sequence sent to all vcos useful - it is if you're going to tune the lfos to intervals, but there's no way to create basslines & melodies that differ - so you can't for example play the root on the bass and a melody for a lead...

overall: take a look at my signature and specifically the formula - it's quick guide to how to get the most (versatility in patching) for the least expense & is scalable from the tiniest to the largesst conceivable modular synthesizer...

I'd also seriously recommend going to modwiggler and reading the intoductory pinned threads in the 1u & 3u subforum... and reading as many newbie threads as you can handle...

after that I'd recommend ignoring the size of the case - plan out exactly what modules you want (and those that you actually need to achieve your goals) and then build another rack here and get it checked... and then before buying anything work out the case you need to put it in - leave at least 20% free space - allow 10mA/free hp per rail... them allow at least 25-30% headroom on the power supply (to allow for inrush & potentially bad power specs)

then work out a minimal version of it... a single sound source, a single sound modifier, a single modulation source, some utilties and a sequencer etc and then buy those and start playing with it & learn those inside and out before adding more modules, slowly... and repeat... 1 or 2 modules at a time...

I know this sounds a bit boring, but it'll get you to a better place, quicker than anything else... & for less money!!!

good luck!

EDITED Sep 18th 2023, 14:30

Hey @JimHowell1970, this gives me a lot to think about, thanks.

NP

For how I'm currently mixing everything I have with a Mackie mixer and so im using the sends for reverb and delay. At one point i was trying to understand if i could just use attenuators to reduce the module output so i could still mix them in my cirrent mixer (this would also let me add effects how im doing it now for the boutique's).

you might find that the Mackie is fine without any attenuation - I used to use a Yamaha module without any and it was fine... the Mackie might have a pad feature that could help - if you experience clipping then just get an inexpensive passive attenuator (they'll always be useful) - a 2hp trim would work fine - as it's set and forget - and if you still have problems then you could try the veils clone, and then if you still have problems investigate output modules - I've never had one in 7 years, though

Your formula in your signature confirms what i was suspecting, that just some sound sources aren't going to take me far enough.
-- sporkandfoon

imo, they're often the least important thing... it's what you do with them and how you modulate the signal path that's important...

have fun!

I'd go for a full size clone if I were you.. much better ergonomics, plaits is small enough already, & you get full size knobs which are better for tuning etc...

maybe a Pams Pro would tick all your boxes, envelopes and synced modulation? as well as many other functions...

does the 03 sequencer output 1v/oct? idk...

take a look at my signature & spend some time thinking about it... especially the formula...

for utilities it's almost impossible to go wrong with a matrix mixer! and a quad cascading vca (veils clone for instance)

& you'll almost definitely want to improve your mixing from a 2hp mixer! thats much better

how are you mixing the rolland boutiques & the modules?

EDITED Sep 16th 2023, 15:39

my tesseract tex-mix also has jacks at the top... at least on the channels modules...

I think one of the major issues, to me, is that a lot of companies that are established and then try to get into the eurorack market, take a look at modules that exist, and based on what's out there, realise there's nothing wrong with doing whatever they feel like... and because they have't got a lot of modular experience, or biggish modulars themselves, don't think about a lot of simple design issues... whereas an experienced modular synthesist, with a fairl big rack would have gone... no I don't like the jack placement, or you need to do this, because... maybe that happened & maybe they just didn't listen...

b-company could have made their modules slightly better (nuts on jacks etc) and marketed under another of their brands (tc electronic for example) & modernised modules slightly to be more easily compatible with euroracl (v-trigger/s-trigger) and just cloned open source modules - without trying to add value, poorly - instead of ripping off intellijel and make noise modules and moog semis - that are still in production - they'd have got more respect from a lot of us if they'd done that...

strymon modules could do with more modulation inputs... but that may be related to the sharc chip... although I'm not sure that's the case - given the number of knobs and you caan just add a jack to the pot in hardware... so possibly down to how much space they would have taken...

z vex could have probably got away adding some extra modulation inputs and used their chinese fab (the one that makes their vexter range) - as they seem reliable and have been made for years - and made cheaper modules that would have sold enough to still warrant making them...

I think z.vex modules were made by malekko, or another known manufacturer (I don't think it was darkspace/wmd though), so maybe it was a case of not listening, or just wanting to get something out quickly.. idk...

there was also waldorf... their modules were, iirc, too big for the limited functionality...

so... other companies that want to get into the eurorack business, from a related existing business, take heed... spend some money on a proper consultant... and pay them enough that it's worth actually listening to them...

*Edit - Just saw that Jim posted at the same time I did. I agree with all of Jim's thoughts regarding small racks.

hahahahaha.... great minds etc....

I agree with all of this. You will want and need a bigger case before you know it. To get the most out of any module, you will find the need for supporting modules. Supporting modules take up space. Imagine all of the functions in a fixed architecture synth or groovebox and then realize that you will need a lot of those functions, sometimes multiple copies of each function. Bigger case than you think you need is pretty much rule #1 in modular land.

I'd go so far as to say that in lots of ways the supporting modules, modulation sources and utilities, are actually the most important modules - as they are how you gain control over the other modules!!!

Tweaking by hand is fun, but you only have two hands. BIA will require about six hands to get interesting grooves happening.

and lightening fast reactions - so you can change from kick to snare to whatever, on each beat - exhausting just thinking about it!!!!

I used the Voltage Block to get cool stuff happening when I had BIA. That's 8 lanes of sequenced modulation in 20hp, not to mention a gate source...

exactly!

How will you be mixing? Do you want to automate volume and panning? Mixers, VCAs, and more modulation sources can help with this.

and again... exactly!

Unfortunately, minimal systems usually offer minimal results. The modular world will quickly eat up a lot of space and your bank account, so make sure you understand each part of what you're getting into. What is it that a tiny incomplete eurorack is offering that a groovebox with sequencer or fixed architecture synth doesn't offer?
Have fun and good luck!

-- farkas

in other words: not to put you off, but much more research, thought and budget is almost definitely required before considering this pusuit!

to add to what @ferranadsr has said

I recently bought a MOOG Mavis to test the eurorrack waters and got inspired to take the plunge. Given my love for this thing, I'm planning to build the rest of my system around it, but within some serious constraints. I want this to be a fairly minimal system for financial and simplicity reasons, so I'm planning to get a 4u palette case (not negotiable)

I think this is utter folly, why? - see below - but if you absolutely must only have 4u - then get the biggest version there is - the 104hp... personally I'd suggest bigger, still... you will need it eventually and eventually is often much sooner than you think... remember, there is absolutely no need whatsover to fill a case - there are always blank panels and there are always cereal boxes (or similar) that can substitute for blank panels... the tiny cases are great for influencers to showcase individual modules with limited patching options and they're great as satellite, mission specific cases - sequencer, control surface etc, but as main synth cases - not so much...

Considering the constraints, I've included a pedal i/o to connect it with what will most likely be a MOOD effects pedal for some thicc reverb and looping potential. https://www.chasebliss.com/mood-mkii I've also secured a deal for a BIA and Noise Tools 1U from Craig's. Figured Steppy is a must-have for this system too, so the whole bottom rack is kind of locked in (ignoring the Mavis probably vacating).

if you wan BIA to do all your percussion for you - ie you want to use it as a percussion factory - I seriously recommend a jasmine and olive traffic module - it will allow you to program changes in the sounds of BIA...

I'm not convinced steppy is the going to do exactly what you want - please describe exactly what you envisage doing with steppy... it generates triggers - 4 of them, with only 2 places to send them...

BIA - I don't own one, but just from looking at it I can tell, that it massively benefits from modulation, something you don't have a lot of (other than some random from noise tools)... and modulation sources benefit from attenuation, attenuversion/offset... that you don't have any of if you are using the duatt as a mixer, which you will be - as you don't have any other mixer in the rack...

the effect pedal is stereo, yet you can only send/return a mono signal... is this a constraint you find acceptable? if not the you need a different interface and a way to take your mono sound sources and place them in the stereo field...

I've never built a system before and I still don't understand a lot of the utility of different components utilities like VCAs, although I hear they're pretty hot. That being said, I'm really looking for feedback about how this system could work as designed, what could/should be changed, and what the longer term potential is with whatever components that might eventually backfill the MOOG's 44hp. Ideally though, I'd like to create some music like I described with the Mavis in place for now, but please let me know if that's unrealistic. Thank you!
-- natural_causes

Seriously I'd do some research on the fundamentals of synthesis before commiting any money... ie what's a VCA, what's a filter, what's a wavefolder etc etc - the pinned topics at the top of the moduwiggler 1u& 3u subforum are a very good place to start...

NOW The Hard Part:

I don't think that you're going to be able to achieve what you want from these modules... I'm assuming that you're going to want to use the BIA as a one stop percussion factory... ok no problem - as long as you have something to change the 'program' on BIA in a purposeful way... but you haven't - see my recommendation of the Traffic module above (this is effectively what it's designed for - you can program in voltage changes that allow you to get repeatable prgoram changes on modules that can benefit from it BIA and Plaits, for instance)...

your mixing solution is poor... how are you going to mix the outputs of the BIA, the Mavis AND the pedal return... what are you going to send to the pedal, just the Mavis? just the BIA? and how are you going to listen? just on headphones or a 'laptop expansion speaker'? are you happy with mono only? see above for - modulation that needs attenuating...

Some further wisdom - from years of experience with modulars - buy a much bigger case than you think you'll need to start with... it will save you money in the long run... larger cases are cheaper per hp than tiny cases... you will get GAS & you will need it... not only this, but just taking the example of the Traffic module... there are modules you think you want and there are modules that you haven't even started to think about that you will need in order to get the most out of the modules you think you want... and to some extent the modules you want can end up being miserable without the ones you need...

take a look at my signature... think about it, think about it deeply... it's years of experience condensed into a few words... especially the formula... which is a quick guide to how to get the most versatility in patching, from the least cash...

ignore the case size for now and spend some time working out what you think you'll want (ie more than just a single voice and a percussion factory) in say a years, maybe twos, time and what you will need in order to actually get the modules to work together & then get that sanity checked... & then find and buy - or build the case on that including at least 20-30% expansion room (you will need it - estimate power consumption for unfilled space at 10mA per rail per hp) and then allow 25-30% for overhead - to work out how much power you actually need... and then get a case that fulfills those needs - hp and power...

in other words build the case around the modules that you think you will want and those that you will need in order to support them - don't try cramming modules into a tiny case - ergonomics will be shit and/or functionality will be poor - leading to a miserable experience... which can only be remedied by either spending money or selling up!

a very large proportion of people who ignore this advice buy another, bigger case within 6-12 months of buying their 1st case...

this is exactly what I did... I started with a tiny case (6u/72hp) & within 6 months it was full so I bought another bigger case, and then a few months later I started building a case - it was shoddy and consisted of planks of wood held together by blank panels and modules, but it worked - & I got better at building cases... years later I have over 1800hp of cases, mostly filled... but if I'd bought the bigger case to start with I think there's a good chance I wouldn't have gone past that - except for the discovery of video modules - which is another story entirely

Now I'm not suggesting that you spend your life savings in one go - I'm suggesting that you think ahead a bit, probably slightly. further ahead than next week or next month though... if you desperately want a BIA buy it now... they were recently discontinued, due to the chips used in them being end of lifed...

but do realise that in starting this you are probably going to be commiting a large portion of your disposable income for years to come to this - ie your current methods of entertainment: beer, drugs, transvestite hookers, cult memberships (whatever, I don't care & neither should you - they're only examples) will take a backseat... that 100 (insert local currency) is a module, not n beers, for example!!

EDITED Sep 15th 2023, 10:00

I recently released a matrix mixer; not as small as some of the others you mention, I'm afraid, though it does have built in passive mults on all ports which should help save some routing space, or splitters at least.
happy-hardware.com
-- happy-hardware

Hi @happy-hardware...

I like the mults, especially on the inputs!

had aquick read through of the description, but couldn't see hp or power requirements - but I might just be blind!!!

also are the trimmers full height ones - so compatible with the thonk trimmer toppers?

Jim

Thank you VERY much Jim,
I appreciate you taking the time detailing your answer to my questions.

No problrm...

Regarding utilities and your statement "it's possible you don't know what they are yet..."
You are absolutely correct on this one: I am looking at sequential switches, switches, logic etc...
It does make sense as I am well served with OSCs and modulation but your signature just stroke me (sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities :) Some of these utilities I understand and can see the need for them. Others remain a mistery but surely time will tell...

I think once you have a few sound sources, modulation sources and sound modifiers, utilities are the most cost effective way of getting more out of your modular... they exponentially increase the patching possibilities

I will most likely PM you (if that is ok by you) and ask some questions regarding others.

please feel free to do so...

Sorry for asking the stupid question about matrix mixers as I went and had a look on YT which clearly explained it :)

no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid answers...

The Doepfer one looks pretty good to me. If you have any suggestions, I will gladly read your post.

Thank you for your time, much appreciated.

Best,
Olivier
-- Loersatz

EDITED Sep 12th 2023, 19:36

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

NP...

Neither for live or studio really.
Having fun patching :)

so home (studio)

I hear you when you are saying 104hp...
Went from a racbrute 6U to the Doepfer 9U thinking (like everyone else I suppose) it would be cool...

the doepfer 9u always seems a little under powered...

And I totally understand when you refer to more utilities: the last modules I bought were actually oriented this way:
- Ladik A-541 for 2 mono OUT feeding Octatrack IN A and IN B
- Ladik A-410 Pan/Mix/VCA
- MI Links not so much for multing but rather as a precision adder
Next one will most likely be Ladik S-090 Dual Probability Skipper and then already thinking about Sequential Switches...
What other utilities do you have in mind?

all of them... by that I mean the ones you reach for and don't have... it's possible you don't know what they are yet... almost always more vcas, more mixers, more inverters, more attenuators, , logic, more offsets... I like a simple clock divider - not only because it can divide clocks, but also audio - /2 = -1ve, /4 = -2ve... square wave output... not something you get from Pams...

Could you also elaborate on matrix mixers if you don't mind?
Many thanks for taking the time.
L
-- Loersatz

4 inputs, 4 outputs, each output is a mix of the 4 inputs... really useful for combining copies of modulation to derive 4 more complex but related modulation sources from those input...

also useful for (amogst other things):

send differently attenuated versions of the same input to 4 different destinations

feedback - lets say you have a delay module, but it doesn't have feedback built in - patch one of the outputs of the matricx mixer to the in of the delay and another to wherever you want that delay to go to... pacth whatever you want to delay and the output of the delay into 2 of the inputs... mix to taste!

send/return - whtever you want to send into an in, the one of the outputs to the whatever you want to send to, output of that module back into one of the ins - another of the outs can now be used as the return

parallel processing - similar to above, but use 3 outputs to send to effects, use 3 inputs for the returns, depending on mixing you could have a clewan signal into each effect and then mix the original clean signal with 3 effected signals

stereouizer/manual panner - mono signal into input - 2 outputs become L & R - depending on relevant levels initial mono input is placed somewhere in the stereo field

I like mono ones, the doepfer particularly (ergonomics) - for most of these tasks... tbh I ihave 2 (non-doepfer) and could do with at least 1 more... 1 will be a doepfer and after that I may grab a stereo one (but only for audio) - I mostly use them for modulation

fiddling around with the buggy hard to use module placement that requires pixel perfect movements...

-- modular01

keyboard shortcuts might help with this, if you don't already use them...

is this for home/studio or performance?

if for home/studio I'd definitely consider 12u/104hp... and I'd fill the extra 104hp with utilities... this will exponentially increase patching possibilities... and I'd really look at 6u vertical-ish and 6u horizontal-ish - not perfctly - as you'll want a greater than 90 degree angle - so cables will fit...

tbh I'd also consider for live... as you'll be able to add matrix mixers and switches and other control modules... in the closest row...

EDITED Sep 11th 2023, 18:02

I think with that number of sound sources, I'd want a 4 channel sequencer... stillson hammer is discontinued... & metropolix is only 2 - I'd look at the erica black sequencer... it can do a lot - pitch, modulation & cv per channel, midi interface and it can do random...

I generally agree with @HGSynth... probably 1 modulation source and then a load of utilities... see my signature...

definitely a matrix mixer, something like happy nerding 3 * mia, comparatot, end of chain mixer, sub-mixers, more vcas etc etc

you could get something like the audio i/o which will do both in & out...

I've never needed an output module - used to run into a basic yamaha mixer without any problems... what are you running this into?

can you please post the url of your public rack... it really helps us help you!!!

I looked but neither match up to the image - jpgs are crap - no infomatics, no click through...