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maybe you can think of something the size of the 2600-vco to replace that would make you more happy, [...]
if you dont like the concept thats is fine, but i really wish yall would recommend specific swaps that keep the same footprint, because the size of the cases is also part of this concept. i wonder, though, if its just too abstract for yall, rather than being as flawed as yall claim. [...]
-- singular_sound
i brought up neanderthals destroyed atlantis to make the point that every melodic voice doesnt need to sound like a xylophone, and that you can sometimes just work with nearly pure tones and end up with a desirable result. i dont have any plans to buy any eurorack. i am half thinking about investing into an 8 string practice electric guitar. i wanted to try to make some conceptual contributions to the community, more that exactly plan out my next purchases.
-- singular_sound
Okay this is funny. Why are you so defensive when you have no experience using modules and no plans to in the future? There's a serious disconnect with what you are asking for and what you expect. Posting real critique here (as you requested) is trying to make you happy, not the other way around. Anyone using a modular synth implicitly understands that imposing their own standards on someone else's instrument doesn't compute. That would be like getting pissed someone painted their personal guitar red instead of blue.
I don't think you want actual feedback, you want backpats and reassurance that your "novel concept" is worthy of praise. You've never even tuned an oscillator and think you can meaningfully contribute, well guess what: You're absolutely right. A tortured, misunderstood genius stands before us!
It's not an "either or" proposition, you can completely open a filter and get brain-rattling PWM, supersaws, and noise to your heart's content. For a noise fan I'm surprised you aren't interested in some of the rowdier screaming filters (ms20 on your radar?). Think of filters like an EQ, because something you're missing is the need to EQ multiple musicians into a cohesive whole. You get VCA comments because modulation is a big part of modular synthesis and they are all but required to provide compelling complexity and are very useful for creating timed events, like notes, percussion, or noise with a defined start and endpoint. Your video example does not reveal what you think it does.
Run a drum machine through a fuzz box, buy a $30 RAT and see if you can't cut several G's off your shopping list. Not gonna comment on you hiring performers to tweak these knobs for you, but maybe you should be looking at a really nice sampler with character in the sound or a clipping-friendly mixer (check the various BX modules out there for a start).
Real suggestion is buy a used DFAM and start from there. There are a lot of standalone noise-friendly synths that really kick ass, check out Strega, Lyra-8 (and Pulsar-23), everything Bastle/Casper, and no-input mixing. Any of those would probably spank your "I bought all the shiny shit" setup here. You look like you're trolling because of the sheer quantity of things you're ignoring that are core to the format plus your deference to a chatbot as an authority which is ridiculous on its face. Loads of complex oscillators but not a single LPG, it's a formula worth trying like peanut butter on bread. Go to the synth noise section on muffwiggler if you aren't just taking the piss.
First system: try picking two sound sources/voices max and maximizing them rather than slapping tons of oscillators together with nothing to do with them. Missing basics/10
Second system: looks painful to play. Too many battleships/10
Third system: phono instead of morph despite the stereo-friendly bluebox. Why/10
Fourth system: just buy the taiga keyboard/10
Dumping tons of chatbot lorem ipsum slop: Seriously demotivates providing feedback in favor of shitposting in this cursed thread. Not surprised it's encouraging this, try feeding it a rack of nothing but Dixies and see. I'm not reading all that shit/10.
Overall: you should buy a nice modulation-heavy polysynth or a semi-modular before blowing your inheritance on this. Fever dream/10 Try starting here
Consider an Expert Sleepers interface so you can have all of VCV inside your rack while you build it up. This is the only no-brainer I see here when you have some modules you already really like in there since it opens up space and saves tons of money on the unsexy stuff like simple VCAs and EGs. The ES mod will also let you avoid "auto-including" wild shit like DATA that's overkill for most people. 4ms MetaModule is coming too, I'd imagine a VCV fiend would love that one!
Your rack is full of mostly digital modules despite coming from VCV rack. Not a problem, but you may want to pick some analog alternatives for those strengths that they provide over digital since you have a wealth of them at your fingertips already. Just depends on how you're patching your voices if this is valid or not.
FX in euro sure as hell doesn't save any money, it's actually stupid the premium spent compared to dedicated FX boxes and pedals. This is a spot where the ES mod could pull major weight. You can also use simple 2-4HP attenuators/level changers/pedal interfaces like that 1u line level module to get into some outboard or pedals. Something like the MFX doesn't make sense to me in euro format without the Axon expander to give it CV inputs, budgeting space for that if you go with it is worth a thought.
Ditch the 1u mult and throw a Guillotine in there. Buffered mults aren't really needed on a case this size especially when your chosen mixer has multiple aux sends. You should check out Ritual Electronics and Bastl btw.
With an electronics tic consider a soldering iron and DIY manufacturers. Saves a good bit and they actually sell decently well secondhand if you end up not liking something you build. Huge difficulty range from soldering everything including SMD parts, to simple through-hole only, to just getting the jacks and pots attached, so you can actually learn this skill while building modules from day 1.
10HP seems like a lot to sacrifice for an ADSR in a rack this size, maybe check out Malekko's Quad Env. With 208hp to work with, this is where swapping the 26HP of Function Junction + Black EG for something like a Doepfer A-143-2 Quad ADSR in the same 26HP or a TTA/Buchla 281t in 28HP may be both a more powerful and attractive option. Sort of the same situation for the filters, you've got 20HP of these (not counting Ghost) which I wouldn't expect alongside multiple dedicated voice modules. What are we doing with these, pinging them for kicks and stuff or deharshing those digital voices? You may prefer a dedicated drum module for pinging, imo the ALM drums are the yin to NE's yang and they're pretty BIA-like in use, look up Tyso-Daiko.
I would personally never pick up Pam's with sequencing as the main intent. She's more of a heroine for syncing modulation and clocks though I dig her euclid options, but you picked up Euclidean Circles so she'd be redundant in that duty. Amazing mod but definitely not an "every rack" module, she's just like Maths actually: do not feel obligated despite the deserved fanfare. I still think she'd be good here since you need the modulation pretty bad.
Don't hesitate to grab some cheapie Behringer mods (used? they're frequently on sale too). I haven't regretted any of the System 55 or ARP 2500 series I grabbed early on and they're all still racked. Their clones of mainstays like Maths could give you an idea if the "real ones" are for you too.
IDK kinda all over the place feedback, if your plan is to recreate your VCV setup on a tabletop then you know what to do, but if not I'd grab the relevant Expert Sleepers interface and build it up slow with the simplest pieces first. Definitely hold off on mods you're not even sure are a fit for the rack you're building like the mixer taking 1/10th of your space.
IMO if you're not sure about maths then don't buy it, you need to know why you want that module for it to make sense taking up 20hp in a 62hp case, I'd be unsure on including it myself in a small case like that and I have several Maths. You need to watch videos/find some overview on it, the manual and helping docs out there are great. It does look confusing at first but is spaced and placed pretty well for playing live.
I don't have the DFAM modules and can't comment much on them, I know they have videos online, but I think they are bursting pulses into the Step inputs on the sequencer to pick out specific steps, change sequence length, and to add the Reset functionality. Unique.
If IDUM is the kind of module that is catching your eye, be sure to check out other gate sequencers. I like that its purpose seems to be to manipulate other sequencers because you have plenty of those, but it's kind of hands-off on the composing front. If it's going to be your main sequencer then make sure you add some helper mods for enhancing that experience. There are supposedly a bunch of great sequencers on the Ipad these days if you have one, you would technically bring those in with a cheap MIDI module, but it's the touch interface and ability to swap apps to other sequencers as your real "module" there.
I would say do more/deeper research, you're not being forthcoming with how you're using your synths here so I'm not sure how you're planning to patch this up or what the setup is like w/o the eurorack. The moogs make it easy to mix outside the rack, which if you take advantage of frees up some space. Try mapping out an example patch that you would create if you had the full setup you're looking at. That's a good way to find out something like "well I have 8 trigger outs and only need 3" or "I need X total inputs to use this submixer how I want to." I would say a stereo filter is awesome with the MSS but not if you're just doing percussive stuff, I'd proabably prefer a panner, but if there's a dedicated mixer then I might prefer a line/euro level changer (if the IJ case outs are insufficient) since no panner necessary. Your other hardware is going to determine a lot of what's useless/out of place in your rack.
One other thing is you could go with a "Battleship" style module, bigger/more expensive but offering something usually only found in euro with good playability. Some 30hp+ examples would be Make Noise Rene, Erica Synths Drum Sequencer, TipTop Audio Circadian Rhythms, WMD Metron, or Frap Tools Usta. Some 20hp+ examples would be MN Morphagene, Malekko Varigate 8+ and Voltage Block. I use my Make Noise Tempi the most for basic clocking/triggering and it's 10hp. The 104hp IJ case would remove a lot of concern and has some nice additions for not much more than the 62hp.
Also don't forget the cheaper behringer modules, they can get your feet wet before dropping big money on "regular" modules. The System55 and ARP 2500 series are solid in my experience and have earned their place, but you can get a Maths clone for a third of the price to see if that esoteric approach is for you.
Couple resources for you
Braintree is a solid channel and has a good series on expanding the MSS, some of your questions make me think this is right up your alley. He also has some good videos on Maths itself that help demystify it.
Great demo by Baseck for two sequencers. Voltage Block + Varigate 8 combo make for some compelling modular sequencing. There's a lot more to this than an IDUM and you get to work for it. Expensive but powerful combo.
Check out this rack, replaced Maths and the 1U Steppy with a Pip Slope and a Quadratt to retain some of the functionality but free up more 3U space. Now there's room to be made for something like a Varigate or Circadian Rhythms
Oh yeah last thing to mention is that if you check the "overall price" for your rack you'll see that these are up over $2k now in 62hp. Some manufacturers bundle their modules together into 104hp systems as a deal, you may want to check out what packages you can get for this price elsewhere. There's a lot of Doepfer you can get for this cash, but it's also around the price of Erica Synths, Make Noise, etc. systems as well as impressive standalone drum machines like Erica's Perkons and Vermona PerFourMer.
Looks pretty good to me. I like the combo of batumi+maths with the MSS, a dense digital modulator and a roomy playable one. I also like having an extra filter.
What are you wanting to use Pam's for? I'd personally drop it in this case, with the MSS I don't like Pam's menu system and ended up just loading WYSIWYG modules around the Moogs, much smoother experience. Pam's reputation for being godlike in small cases is well-deserved though so don't let me stop you. You have a ton of clocking and ways to sync modulation already so she loses some lustre here imo, I'd personally rather have a patchable clock divider when you have so many sequencers, but I'm a Bindubba man so I get on with that kind of thing.
Couple random things come to mind:
-- MN modDemix is a fantastic module to pair with Maths, I love it in small cases. Basic functionality with much more at the right price. If you decide to add a VCA or small mixer, shortlist this one 100%.
-- A smallish EG/LFO is a great supplement to stick next to Maths if it can fit. ALM's Pip Slope mk2 is a favorite in 4hp with much of the same controls as on the main Maths channels.
-- Triple Sloths is another dense modulation powerhouse you could consider, much more hands-off but has the influence circuits so it's not just an island. NLC makes a lot of creative and unique modules, be worth a look through if you're interested in adding some chaos/random.
-- Check out the Turing Machine and brethren out there, could pique your interest. You may be the target audience for Ritual Electronics's Amnis, I love it in this category (shift registers), lots of fun with all the gate outputs especially and only 6hp. These are great for CV modulation, not just sequencing notes and gates.
-- Playable touch controllers like Bela Gliss or MN Press Point. Just fun interfaces that don't take up much room.
-- You may want a source of tuned voltages for transposing, something like a Befaco Voltio, but if you've got a keyboard or something handy to feed into the VCOs then I'd forget it. Especially the SubH really benefits from having a precision adder around, but if you're focusing hard on percussion and rhythm, skippable.
-- The DFAM has had a few 3rd party companions developed to expand its functionality that might greatly interest you. Check out the MAFD (midi adapter for dfam) and DFAM Thing. Grabbing one of these could totally change your approach and what you decide to put in this rack. Seriously this may be all you need to get freshly busy for months with your current setup.
-- With all of your instruments having standalone sequencers on them, maybe something else for the 1U row.
And hey you've got several Moog ladder filters and VCOs already, you can always synthesize your own drum sounds from simple building blocks like Maths. You could also sample them, by far the cheapest way to do modular drums rather than get individual voices. Check out the Squid Salmple which is a monstrous pairing with the MSS.
A sequencer would be very low on my list to add-on to this synth, I mean how much time have you put in with the Matriarch's onboard sequencer so far? I was originally thinking "brand new to this synth" and the follow-up questions have me thinking "brand new to all this stuff in general." What do you find lacking or hindering when you sequence the Matriarch right now? I wouldn't buy another sequencer without being able to answer that question, and appreciate the fact that you're about to more than triple the total cost of this Moog set-up through filling 300HP of modules, so you should really hesitate to grab $600 or $1000+ modules that you're feeling wishy-washy on. There are a lot of extremely nice external sequencers in this price range that run circles around anything in eurorack.
No experience with the Metropolix. You could use voltage adders and switches to get chords going from a single sequence and quantizers may have this built in. That Sinfonion is built off the Harmonaig, which would be closer to "making sense" with the Matriarch if you must have your chords generated from a racked module and not the keyboard or something else. Just remember that the synth's keyboard isn't going to behave normally while you're sequencing the oscillators. Look at the Behringer 1027 as a much cheaper option.
I would stick with the more basic toolbox modules mentioned above and then see how you feel after a month or two. The Matriarch's magic is coming from the base component modules. You could go nuts with envelopes and mixers and companion VCO's and make it behave polyphonically if you wanted to but you'd be halfway to the price of a moog ONE with 1/4th of the voices. So really imo at this stage it's better to get some time with the synth and see what you keep reaching for while patching rather than to whiteboard it to death if you're submitting things like the Sinfonion as a question.
If I had to come up with a partner 120hp row to permanently sit on the Matriarch it would look something like this. These modules tend to get the most mileage with the synth.
The rear panel module is very useful and is so cheap that something equivalent should have been included with the synth.
She desperately needs more mults and attenuators/attenuverters.
Chaos/random CV (I use Wogglebug and Sloths).
More LFOs or envelopes and a VCA/mixer or two to help with those.
Ring mod if you like it, imo much better with something external to free up the built-in modules.
A high pass filter so you can run mixer -> hpf -> stereo lpf.
Your favorite stereo effect or a pedal interface module like strymon's AA.1. Patching from the filter -> your effect -> back into the matriarch's delay is a dream for example.
Lots of options for this since the Matriarch feels so "finished" in most ways to me, really depends on what you are doing with it and where you want to go. A Pam's might be an easy suggestion for some people but I don't really sync up that much modulation with the Moog in practice. It does so much work on its own that I find myself mostly using "the more basic stuff" to augment it.
Combined the two into one module, total HP from 13 up to 14 but reduced the depth from 45mm to 33mm, I'm guessing that's where/why the additional power draw manifested. I'm a little annoyed at my Batumi+Poti combo because the 3HP expander could easily be 2hp and so you end up with an odd-HP module to find a place for, but they aren't leaving my rack anytime soon. This looks like a skiff-friendlier alternative if you really love Batumi, but I'd probably reach for an Ochd (4HP, 32mm) for skiff duties at twice the price for twice the outputs in a third of the space.
Efficiency on the wallet is compelling but I got mine, I'm down the hole, I don't need cheap modules to tempt or help me to get up and running. However the suite of cheap euro clones that don't fit into one of the big 3 systems is starting to look like a great gateway drug to the big boy modular companies where innovation happens. Brains, Abacus, 4LFO, 4Play, Mix, and Space FX total a little over $600. Add a filter like their 121 Dual VCF and you have substantial power under your fingers for USD$724. That level of buy-in could inspire a lot more artists to give modular a shot, anecdotally I sure wouldn't have plopped down $2000 for a Moog if not for the B2600, and here I am balls-deep in even more expensive synths because of that Gray Meanie.
I don't think this counts as IP theft either unless Behringer decompiled XAOC's code which wouldn't be necessary for something of this complexity. This is a quad LFO module, pretty far removed from some unique and magical DSP-based products, and just knowing the basic functionality of Batumi you could replicate it with some textbooks and time. What is the element of Batumi that makes this an infringement - what is their intellectual property at risk here? How many VCOs or EGs are functionally identical with a different coat of paint? It's sad how quickly I see people run to "the law" in an effort to enforce their personal moral or ethical perspective when it's one German in particular. This is no counterfeit product wrt trademark theft: different looks, name, decorative symbols, logo. No one is confusing this for the XAOC original by mistake; the Four LFO is derivative but not counterfeit, or is it time to re-litigate the "your guitar body shape looks like my guitar body shape" issue? It seems like Behringer is operating within the bounds of "the law" that you want to use as a cudgel to beat them with, shucks, maybe grievances at this company are misdirected. If you find it morally repugnant then please lobby for the law to change rather than bleat onto the internet, it's a very sad "man shakes fist at cloud" situation to observe. Just FYI - anyone can report IP theft to the appropriate agencies and you don't need to be the owner of said IP to do so, just seeing it occur is enough. Go for it and post the results please, I'm not being facetious, we wanna know the outcome!
I'd much rather get some unique modules out of them and at this point I wonder if they're aping "tried and true" products to test the waters to see whether modular development is worth the full-time investment after the Roland100/Model 55/ARP2500 stuff. Behringer seems to have started slow and built up steam once the sales rolled in with their desktop/keyboard synth offerings, makes me wonder, but then again we're seeing more clones rather than releases in the same vein as DeepMind in that arena (and to be fair, originals will take longer than eyeing a template). This current batch could also be products that largely function for the company as advertisements for open positions, I think they've been seeking devs and designers for awhile now. It's not like euro fever is slowing down (though a depression may force it) so imo it's time to shit or get off the pot. Rehashes bore the fuck out of me from any company. Behringer's unique weapon as a company is extreme efficiency of margins, I'm seriously waiting for the "look at everything we could afford to slap together" Frankenstein's Monster that's too ugly, strange, and crazy to resist. Popular Module #69 doesn't tingle the peepee much to someone already entrenched.
