I think the Maths and Wogglebug are good for a setup like this. The Ochd+expander you have in the new configuration is a good choice - you can also feedback it by plugging the various outputs back into the CV control input for more varied and unpredictable LFOs. Since Maths gives you two attenuators already in addition to its other goodies, VCAs are probably the way to go here. In a small system, VCAs with knobs are the most convenient. The classic is the Intellijel Quad VCA or Mutable Veils (discontinued, but After Later Audio makes a clone called Cloaks, as do other companies). Omnitone makes a quad VCA called Ampera that is smaller if you need the space. I wouldn't worry about finding a special VCA with special audio character, because those ones are said to sound good already and you'll want them more for CV here. Just go for value and control capabilities. The main thing here is just to get control over more signals and more aspects of signals.

ModularGrid Rack

I did up this just so I could keep track of everything. I put Ghost in instead of the other effects unit because the other one appears to be currently unavailable in Eurorack or standalone format, but you can always find another effect or multieffect that suits you (or track that one down if you need it). One thing I see around a lot is the Folktek Alter X and Y pedals, which are more like Eurorack modules in pedal form with CV control, and offer similarly grimy and potentially experimental (yet varied and tameable) effects like that other unit. That might free up some space for you to add more utility/modulation or maybe even squeeze a second small signal path in there (or expand your current one).

These are all just guidelines, and I imagine you'll want to go over all these things and check out the alternatives. Hopefully that helps. Your sound sources/effects are obviously the most personal part, but as you play around with stuff you'll get a lot more confident with all the other pieces and knowing what suits you. Don't be afraid to test ideas in VCV Rack as well. You won't be able to use all the same modules, but some are available and the concepts are all still the same. Multifunction modules like Ornament and Crime, the Distings, or the Empress Euroburo/Poly Hector (the latter two can exist in their own cases) are also great ways to experiment with new and interesting functions in a relatively small setup.


The "clutter" comments aren't about having too many things, but about having an imbalanced setup and impractical module arrangements that would make your setup almost impossible to get results from unless they were just harsh noise or pure drones. A single row can be cluttered and cramped while a giant setup can be balanced and user-friendly.


For this size, the Loki is probably a good start. The Spherical Wavetable Navigator does a lot of stuff, but it also demands a lot of stuff to fully maximize its complexity.

Overall, it looks like a good start to me. That mult is surprisingly big, but if you have the room and can get a good deal on it, that's fine.


You'll probably be a lot happier if you ditch one of the oscillators and one of the effects units to get yourself a filter outside of Ghost (nothing against Ghost but you need a filter or low pass gate that acts like a synth filter and isn't meshed in with the other effects), a bit more modulation (LFOs), and a VCA/attenuator for CV. Maybe a mult/mixer as well. The craziness you get from a patch on a system full of utilities like these will be a lot more varied and playable.

Just my suggestion. More sound sources/effects doesn't necessarily mean more sounds in Eurorack.


Be sure to post some examples when you finally buy this stuff and get going. I can't wait to see what you come up with.


Don't be afraid to look at a complete synth voice to start with as well. Eurorack has lots of really interesting options for things that basically could run standalone in a limited fashion, and then you just add a module or two as you go along. A Moog Mavis or a Quadrantid Swarm (just two of many options) will work out of the box and even have their own case, though they can still be racked after.

There are also lots of sound-making modules with their own built in VCAs or filters. All sorts of varieties: Plaits, 4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator, Befaco Oneroi, Gamechanger Plasma Voice. You could pretty easily start with these and 2-3 other things (the A-143-2 and Pam's or the Mimetic) and already have a fully functioning system as long as you have something to plug it into that can take the signal.

I also feel like the Niftycase is worth a mention. It gives you 3U, 84hp with power, MIDI for up to two tracks of CV/Gate (or 5 triggers/gates depending on what you need), and a quarter inch output with two inputs. The price is very reasonable. Those cases you looked at seem nice, but if you're worried about cost and value for money, Niftycase is a potential alternative and the whole package costs about as much as most MIDI to CV modules do on their own.


What's the concept?

I think you should just buy it. The rack itself is so much easier to bounce ideas off of than any individual will be.


The main thing Eurorack will offer instead is unique experiences. AE Modular seems to have some great stuff, but it is ultimately fairly traditional synthesis without much variety in concept and interface. Not a bad thing at all (focused systems are productive systems) but different. You should probably start by looking at some unique sound sources/oscillators and a unique filter/VCA/low pass gate or other way of articulating the sound. I can't really be too specific here – this is a personal choice that will make your system yours. Maybe a unique sequencing system, as well. Something that feels malleable and musical like what you want, but operates in a more hands-on or abstract way to program a sequence (like the Mimetic). You can also use the Polyend Tracker in combination with a MIDI converter so that while the Mimetic or your other modular stuff (quantizers plus modulation are a great trick for this) actually does the sequencing and you can manipulate that with the modular interface, the modular is still being clocked and controlled by the Tracker in conjunction with whatever it's doing, and a combination of both can also be used.


It's about as close as I've seen you get. I still think this is a work, but I'll play along:

ModularGrid Rack

I've made some quality of life changes while still trying to keep what you have here. Rather than explain all my changes, I'll just say that if there are any you don't understand or appreciate, I am happy to answer any questions and provide alternative solutions. I can give you a rough overview, though. I will say is that I think you will be much happier avoiding those 2hp drum modules, espcially if you don't give them enough space. They are very difficult to use in a big system with lots of cables and options. You should be able to run lots of layers this way, as well as be able to sample and combine elements using the Bitbox so you can use the results of those patches while running other patches. "Band in a box" will always be better with a DAW, a more streamlined hardware workstation like an MPC, or at the very least as a large system built gradually by figuring out what you want from each "bandmate" using experience and going piece by piece. But you can totally do multiple things with this - bass, lead, chords, drums, and other samples all simultaneously. You'll want to throw a MIDI keyboard in there for the Demon Core, and you'll be a lot happier with an external mixer if you want multiple things going on like a full band, but it should kinda work then. Kinda.


Was your plan to replace the AE Modular or to add the Eurorack to it? Honestly, I think your AE Modular setup will cover most of the ground your proposed Eurorack system will cover. I would say that unless you just really want to try specific Eurorack modules that are different from what's in your current case, you're probably fine for now. I would recomend a couple more LFOs or whatever other modulation Tangible Waves offers and just looking up patch ideas. The quantizer and Ornament and Crime (if it comes back in stock) are also available in AE, and would probably help as well.

edit: I do have a Polyend Tracker as well and it is a great controller/sequencer for modular. If you get a MIDI module for your AE Modular, you can work that in easily and absolutely use that setup to do melodic bass and leads using your current modular, with other samples/sequencing/synth stuff being done on the Tracker or a DAW.


I clicked the picture and saw you already started making it bigger, and that's good. 84hp at least will go a long way towards making this a very good system to start with. What you need mainly is modulation. A Pip Slope does some good stuff, but also having some LFOs (Batumi, Ochd+expander, etc) and maybe a sample and hold (Toppobrillo Sport Modulator, Divkid RND Step), small CV sequencer, and/or quantizer will give you a ton of variety even from just the Ensemble oscillator and a filter. Effects are probably better left outside the rack for now, but that's something you can figure out as you go.


Your original post is actually a very good starting system except for a couple tiny things things that seem off:

  • What's going on with the 1010 Music MIDI splitter? Do you own or plan on owning multiple 1010 Music products or other TRS MIDI items? If so, then that's fine - just as long as you don't want it for anything converting MIDI to CV.
    • You can probably start with one mult like that. This space will help you with my next suggestion.
    • The Octal Linear VCA is great, and I often consider buying a second one. However, that one is better for big systems with lots of different modulators. I think here you need something with knobs for controlling the level and/or CV amount going in. Intellijel Quad VCA, Omnitone Ampera, Happy Nerding 3xVCA...something like that.
  • I disagree about the Mimetic Digitalis not being useful in this context. Even when you're not using every part for pitch, it would be a good CV modulator. A Pam's New Workout might be a more versatile option to start with, though. Lots of clearly accessible modulation, gates, and triggers You can even take unused channels from it and send timed gates/triggers to effects or filters to ping them and create unique experimental percussion that will be good for complementing and thickening your exploratory sounds.
  • For a small system like this I don't know if such a large output module is necessary. I have a passive stereo headphone out from Herzlich Labs and I find that way easier to just get the sound from one thing to another or listen to my system without needing a whole mixer or something - plus I only need one for all my stuff, rather than one per case. The 4MS Listen IO might also be a good idea, since it has the output functionality of this one (minus quarter inch jacks) but also has an input so you can run weird sounds through your filter and FM your synths with external sounds and stuff. If you have specific setup needs and really prefer the Pittsburgh output module (or already have it), however, ignore me on this.

In general, I think you had the right idea the first time. The second one was a bit weirder and might not really work since it no longer has an audio rate oscillator and that trigger sequencer is taking up a lot of space while doing less than the Mimetic or a Pam's. A 6U case (2 rows) is worth a look, though. The Mantis Case is cheap, durable, deep, wide, has good carrying case options, and will sell easy if you find it too big or need something else. Even if you choose not to expand much, it's better to have a case that's roomy and not quite full than be overly squeezed. There is generally never enough modulation or VCAs (though you want to make sure you have enough modulation to at least open as many VCAs as you have and intend to use, especially if you consider some without knobs later). Good work keeping a balanced and sensible amount of audio sources to modulation sources and utilities - that really is what makes this stuff come alive and be different from the results in a DAW or hardware workstation.


I think all the advice you got in your previous posts still applies.


Did AI help you with this one, too?


Those are all good modules to start with. If you move the MIA up one, that's also the perfect order to buy them in.


You could always sell the Mutant Brain and get a CV.OCD. That'll buy you 8hp of space. How much room did you need to make?


Thread: Idea

I think Maths is a better starter than, say, Ears in this case, actually. For starters, it actually does everything Ears does except the contact mic stuff, which is pretty easy to set up at home. You can start by using it for simple duties (envelopes, complex modulated LFOs, logic, and yes, envelope following like what Ears will do) and then explore more concepts though Youtube and the manual. It can even make an interesting filter or traditional oscillator to experiment with. From there, it'll be pretty easy to figure out which of the functions you use separately enough to warrant its own module. Having both at some point will be helpful, but for now having a Maths alongside these modules will allow you to experiment with multiple robust and musical case arrangements/patches in far more ways.

Do you like the Doepfer A-143-3 specifically? I love Doepfer modules too, and that one does seem nice and roomy, but it doesn't seem to offer a lot of flexibility. 12 LFOs, but only four speeds/rhythms. No voltage control, even. It's also not as cheap as I expected. Free-running LFOs like that are awesome and help make modulars feel distinct and free, but there are a lot of options there that might get you more for that amount of space and not much more money. Batumi? Ochd + expander? Lots of options.

Just my two cents on those issues. You seem to be on the right track. Knowing why you're doing what you're doing is more important than doing any one specific thing.


Thread: Idea

What are you sequencing with? Is "Rings into Clouds" the voice you want to focus on (nothing wrong with it - just checking), or are you planning on running external audio through this or adding a more traditional oscillator? If the two are being considered the main sound source here, why Rings but not Elements or Plaits? What do you imagine doing with this, exactly?

It's not that I want to question your motives or suggest these are a bad start. I don't necessarily think you need to make a standard subtractive voice. This is one of those setups where you could get very good and usable stuff out of it. That setup could also be frustrating depending on what you expect. We need more info before making any suggestions.

That being said, I think an envelope generator (preferably with multiple envelopes, like a Maths or a Doepfer A-143-1) and a filter are sorely missing here. The former most of all. Also, I wouldn't spend any more real estate on effects even if you are going with a Mantis case. Those are things I can say pretty confidently now.


Do you plan on playing the Buchla stuff by itself, or with a larger setup? Also, what do you envision doing with the Buchla stuff?

I just ask because they'll have different strengths and weaknesses. I have a friend who has an Easel Command (no touch keyboard, just a Keystep 37), and he pretty much treats it like a solo instrument and spends most of his time playing it by itself. Seeing a person run an Easel on pure instinct is as impressive as any other instrumentalist to me, and the interface is very enjoyable whether you're entirely conscious of what's happening or not. It is a great single instrument, but I think that means you'll want to interact with it a lot in order to get your money's worth from it.

I, however, own a small 84hp rack of TipTop Buchla stuff, and that works great for me. I mainly wanted to work some of the concepts into my setup so I got the 258t (I wanted sine wave FM), the 281t (I like looping envelopes), and the 266t (everyone loves the Source of Uncertainty) and finished it with some cheap passive low pass gates (enough for up to two oscillator-based signal paths and/or up to 3 percussion sounds using the noise in the 266t. If your plan is more to weave Buchla concepts into your existing setup like me rather than going deep into playing the Buchla itself, the TipTop stuff will probably work better. Slightly less ergonomic (though I think they're spacious and well thought-out for Eurorack, which you already seem fine with), but more flexibility and less financial burden looming even if you do a whole 6/7U case of them.

In short: only do the Easel if it's specifically the Easel and its layout/function that you like. If you're like me and just love the sounds and ideas associated with it more than any single configuration, maybe try the modules first. If you have the money and the urge, I feel like both paths are potentially rewarding.


Error Instruments and Erd pretty much specialize in this. Nonlinearcircuits has a lot of cool weird stuff. Mannequins/Whimsical Raps as well – their aesthetic is pretty obscure, but even when you get through the marketing and understand the modules, they still have a very unique take on whatever function they do. There's also the Instruo Scion, if you happen to have any plants.


You can always have a "best of all possible worlds situation" and get the super cheap, super fun, and mostly analog Korg SQ-1, which will allow you to keep the rack space for other stuff and still experiment with the kind of off-grid weirdness you can get with a flexible analog sequencer. It's less dense and capable than the Renee, but that may actually suit your plan more.


I would give serious consideration to an Ochd in this case (and maybe the expander if you're feeling fancy).


Rings would probably be a good call.

A resonant filter bank might also be worth a look, like a Serge ResEQ or the Erica Synths one. A dual/quad filter arrangement (like QPAS, Eowaves Tempetes Magnetique, or the Xaoc Belgrad) might also work. There are lots of options for both, so take a look around.

Be sure to balance modulation and utilities (both playable and flexible) with the effects so you're getting the most out of each module.


Only when you have enough VCAs.


Basically, I have three 3U 84HP "monosynths" (one based on a GTO/QPAS combo, one based on Tiptop Buchla modules, and one expanded Mavis) and then a home base rack with a Nerdseq, Sweet Sixteen, BearModules matrix mixer, Doepfer Octal Linear VCA, and some other things I wanted to try or plan to try but not necessarily take on the go with me. I like being able to take the "monosynths" to play with musicians in band settings while still easily being able to use them in tandem as a larger, more vaguely defined system at home.


Thread: More advice

Matrix mixer is definitely a good one - if you don't mind investing in some right angle cables, the NLC Clump also has VCAs built in to make things extra-interesting. Spring reverb (like from Befaco or Music Thing) would also be a good call. Speaking of Befaco, a Rampage wouldn't be a bad idea. It's kind of like their riff on the Serge slope generator, and it'd probably be a big help in here.

I always liked the idea of the Black Noise Cosmos, but that's a bit niche. It's worth a look, though.


maybe with a zadar or dr phil ter, in a new thread, maybe in a couple months from now. im kind of obsessed with the idea of controlling 4 full voices from a brainstep in a not huge case. idk how im going to get over that to switch over to one or so fully sculpted voice, etc. thanks for commenting.

✌️
-- singular_sound

You don't really have to change the concept. The Demon Core isn't a trick. If you like it, you can totally get it and base your system around it. It even has the "gated" mode, so when you hit it with a note it will kind of automatically do the ADSR shape as indicated on the expander. With the Phil Ter, it'd be kinda like the Polymoog sound (think Gary Numan). It's not full subtractive polyphony but it does the thing. It's not the easiest way to learn modular synths, but it could be worse.

I know I'm walking into a trap here, and the joke will be all on me for getting involved, blah blah blah...but...

ModularGrid Rack

This is a (more or less) functional version of what you're talking about. It's just an example, and it's still a bit cramped, but hopefully this gives you an idea of how the things you mean to do can be accomplished in a way that does what you say while providing a number of musical options. I know you won't do anything with this information, but here it is, I guess. Enjoy your...concepts? If there are any specific choices you are curious about, just ask.


Is there a way to make it so it greys out all the other options if a manufacturer chooses "Blank panel" so you can't choose anything else when it is selected? I don't know the process for submitting modules.


You'd have a much easier time figuring those things out via experimenting with VCV Rack or something, as opposed to trying to bounce ideas off this forum more than occasionally or using AI to explain it.


Can you be more specific about the contributions you hope to make?


well, theres not really any point in anyone else posting in this thread, is there. ... ... ...

gnight yall. ✌️
-- singular_sound

Nope. Not really.


Do you already have any of these?


What was your plan for it when you got it?


If you want this all to have a certain rhythmic undercurrent, Pam's is probably the way to go. Also, a Toppobrillo Sport Modulator seems like it'd be a good calls for a noise/ambient case like this as well - lots of opportunities for going from modulation to audio rate oscillation and everywhere in between. I think it would fit this setup particularly well for how it can be both a self-contained drone synth in its own right as well as a toolbox for your modular setup.

An attenuverter or VCA would also be helpful here to give the textures even more movement and fill more space.


ModularGrid Rack

This is probably what I would do under those conditions to achieve what you're describing. You can fill up the Disting with samples and stuff before you go so there's plenty of extra drum options. Crust is also good because of the alternate firmwares. Both of those voices can cover a wide range and be more than just a single drum each with clever modulation. Veils is flexible and can be used for multiple things at once (like mixing two tracks of audio on one half and controlling modulation on the other half). Even if you take the Beatstep Pro, I think the Pam's, Tetrapad and Tete are unavoidable here. They seem to be most of your modulation and playability. If anything, the DFAM might be a better accompaniment for this than the Beatstep Pro, but it's all up to you.


The Nerdseq also has extensive Launchpad integration for a variety of functions, making it a lot more hands-on than it seems at first.


How are you sequencing your other stuff? If your setup has a clock/sync output or CV/Gate outputs, this may be enough to just run them side by side.


I have used 2hp modules before. I still have the Mix. Frankly, though, for this amount of money, I would say to not put a bunch of them in. They wiggle even if they're built rock solid, amd the knobs are not fun. If you decide later you need some function they provide and have to have it in 2hp, then go for it.

2hp Hat - You can probably skip this. You have noise in your setup. Patch the noise to a VCA/low pass gate/filter and ping the CV input/send it short envelopes. This is also sort of my advice about the Queen of Pentacles. If you try it and like it, then go with it (the filter and effects alone might bw able to help the modulation problem and give it some life). Whether you like the Queen of Pentacles or not, however, modular presents a great opportunity to synthesize unique percussion using the exact same tools you make synths with, as well as an opportunity to blur the lines between melody and percussion. The more you play with this system, the further away you'll get from assigning things standard roles like "drum/bass/lead".

2hp Euclid: Pam's has you covered here, I think. Plus the Oxi One.

2hp Arp: Another one where your sequencing hardware has you covered, but you've also got those quantizers to turn any modulation into an arp. A quantizer is almost always better for in-rack than an arpeggiator.

2hp TM: If you can make room for it I would 100% recommend the After Later Audio Alan instead.

Once you have a Rample and a 2hp Play, I can't help but think you should just try a Bitbox or a Squid Salmple - especially if you're also worried about the Queen of Pentacles and the SD card on the back. Maybe that's just me. Vocal one shots and all that can also be a 505 thing, but I'll leave that up to you. You can also look into CV to MIDI converters like the Befaco CV Thing or the Sweet 16 faderbank (a great multi-function module in general, albeit a big one) to allow you to send modular signals to non-modular gear like samplers and control their MIDI ccs for that modular sampling vibe. Sampling in Eurorack can be great, but this process will definitely help you decide what you want to do in rack or out of rack and where each task suits your needs, and you may find one of these options more suitable. I wanted to make a Eurorack sampler for a long time until I thought about it and realized that my Polyend Tracker and SP404 would let me put a sample anywhere I wanted in most ways I would want, and that unique but purposeful sample placement was easier to do there anyway.

The 2hp Pluck is admittedly hard to replace this way. There's always Rings or the QuBit Surface, but those are definitely bigger. People do like the Pluck.

There is one kind of 2hp module that I always suggest to people: passive low pass gates. I have the Takaab and Meng Qi brand ones and they are great for setting up quick and simple percussion out of any sound you throw at them, or just having extra signal paths for your oscillators that give them a unique character.

Overall, this seems pretty balanced. Usually imagined systems this big are a bit of a mess. More modulation is nice, so if you expand, definitely look there first.


The benefit of adding to a semi-modular synth is that you've already got a solid base to start from. In this sense, you're not too limited by order of module purchase. The main thing I would say is to just focus on what you want the most in here and then space out the voice/effects purchases as much as possible so you've always got a good balance of sounds to modulation/utilities. Pam's is an obvious pick for one of the first modules, since it is a compact way to explore a lot of this stuff and will help organize future purchases. Same with the Quad VCA, which you will find immediate use for (especially as a way of manipulating modulation from Pam's in a tactice way).


I probably wouldn't have the MIDI module right on the side - I'd move it somewhere else and put something there that I fiddle with a lot. Go with what works, though. You'd know better than me about that at this point.


Thread: Autism Rack

I don't think they meant that without utilities and modulation, you wouldn't be enough to make good sounds. The Atlantix can totally function on its own as a synth voice sequenced by the Metropolix and be patched and repatched to do crazy stuff. However, things like

  • free-running LFOs and function generators with loopable envelopes that let your sounds get off the grid
  • VCAs for controlling levels of not just audio, but also CV to make things extra dynamic
  • envelope followers to have very specific experiments in modulation shape
  • switches of various kinds to move and route signals in unique ways
  • clock dividers to give more varied timing events in your setup

...are very simple circuits in the vein of classic modular, but they will make your one synth voice suddenly feel like a massive environment that is constantly evolving. There are obviously so many other random things I can't get into here because it would take too long, but these little things are where the fun it. Atlantix has the sample and hold, noise, rimg mod, and lots of cool stuff if you want to start here and get comfortable, but that's only the beginning.

I would recommend looking at these modules: Make Noise Maths, Make Noise Function, Divkid Ochd, Doepfer Octal Linear VCA. You don't have to buy them to get going (or at all), and this stuff you have in the picture here would be a good start while you ponder what else you might want, but at least look at these modules as stuff your module doesn't have that might complement it well.

You may want to consider getting the Metropolix Solo, where it has its own case with MIDI in and out. This will free up space in your rack to have other cool stuff without anything being too cramped.

Do you already own any of this?


I wouldn't add more voices. More modulation and VCAs, probably. Maybe something like a WORNG Vector Space or something like that where it makes a lot of modulation out of a couple sources. A matrix mixer is good for that, too - you can mix different CV and audio sources to make unique shapes and adjust them on the fly. It seems pretty complete to me, otherwise.

Was there something specific you wanted it to do? It might actually help if you're specific about which parts work less for you.


Do you mean that you use the Octatrack/Rytm to generate samples and modify input, right? Just confirmimg that this rack is primarily being used to make synth sounds (aside from the Sample Drum).


Spring reverb is always nice in a hardware effects setup. Doepfer has a nice simple one.

You could also just get a Finegear Dust Collector to go with the rack, but that might be a little overboard.

Another option is a Poly Hector. It has Rings and Clouds in it plus a lot of basic effects, modulation, and routing tools that would take a lot of space in another rack. It's a touch screen, but it has a very effective interface that makes it easy to tweak and adjust.


You would just go looking for a 10 pin to 16 pin Eurorack ribbon cable. I find this is actually the ribbon cable I run into most - more than 16 to 16, at least. When you buy more modules that are not standalone, they'll often come with this cable, and it will occasionally already be plugged in.


Do you plan to use this entirely on its own or with other gear?


Theoretically it should be fine. It's a lot of voices at once, but that could be good for layering or audio rate modulation or something.

Do you already own all these?


One big button that says "Push here for Talent"
-- wishbonebrewery

I believe they call this "generative music".


I should say that I double-checked and the Sweet Sixteen does not have MIDI in, so I was incorrect about MIDI to CV conversion. However, you seem to have that covered already, and this would allow you to go the other way - convert CV to MIDI to control CCs on your other stuff with your modules (might be good for some of the stuff on the TR-8S that's in menus). I just wanted to correct myself and not have you make a decision based on my mistake.

edit: turns out I mentioned MIDI to CV conversion somewhere else. Still good to point out.


What you want is the Sweet Sixteen fader bank (which I seem to be bringing up a lot lately). It's an adaptation of this open source module concept, but it also has inputs in addition to outputs, allowing it to do the purely CV-based attenuation you want.