Effectionless

Hello guys and gals,
I’m a bit stuck. Do I really need VCAs?
Do I need effects?
Do I need a mixer?
What would you do to finish off this rack?
Help would be very, very helpful.
Thanks.

do you need vcas? probably, definitely if you want to form 'notes' instead of just drones - they are also useful for modulation - modulate your modulation!

do you need effects? not necessarily... but, most people find that at least one filter per voice is a really good idea... & if you don't have effects (at least delay & reverb) somewhere else (DAW, pedals) then you'll probably want some in the rack - they are useful in the rack as you can use them in other places in the chain than just end of chain processing... if you have pedals or line level effects then you probably want some sort of send/return (with level adjustment) to get them to work properly

do you need a mixer? again not necessarily - they are incredibly useful though - & you probably want multiple types - sub-mixers, matrix mixers (are always useful) and an end of chain mixer if you aren't going into an external audio interface or mixer - although you may want one even if you are - nb some vcas are also mixers - buy one of these (a dc-coupled quad cascading vca)
as a sub-mixer at the very least

what would I do? add utility modules... mixers, vcas, logic, sequential switches etc etc

see my signature for some handy hints on how to get the most versatility in your modular for the least cash!!!

hope this helps... & feel free to ask more questions!

EDITED Apr 16th 2023, 14:08

Thanks for the reply JimHowell1970. Could you give me some examples of how YOU would finish this rack? Which modules would you go for? I’ve got vcas in Maths, but nothing really drones if I don’t want them to. But do I need more? Please help 😳

Thanks for the reply JimHowell1970. Could you give me some examples of how YOU would finish this rack?

There is no such thing as "finish"... modular synths are endlessly evolving custom instruments... maybe a case will be full at some point, but there are always other cases...

saying that I already said what I would add (or at least pointed you in the direction) - I just didn't mention specific modules... the whole point of modular is that it's your custom instrument (and not mine) so as always happens it would just be a list of what are my favourites: for utilities and filters - doepfer... for vcas I always liked Veils (there are clones available) - an fx aid pro wouldn't hurt - I'd probably want another modulation source - probably either a zadar or batumi (& expander) and a matrrix mixer to combine them - into even more interesting shapes

Which modules would you go for? I’ve got vcas in Maths, but nothing really drones if I don’t want them to. But do I need more? Please help 😳

-- clivevass

you don't really have vcas in Maths - you can patch Maths as a vca-ish - but generally it's an "envelope generator" unless you are madly into the illustrated manual which you probably aren't - seriously I would add at least one dc-coupled quad cascading vca - as mentioned above, I like veils, but there are others - & Maths is better left to be Maths than using it as 'vcas' - & yes I would want more - as I use them for modulating modulation as well as for shaping notes

EDITED Apr 16th 2023, 21:50

There is no such thing as "finish"... modular synths are endlessly evolving custom instruments... maybe a case will be full at some point, but there are always other cases...

I think there is such a thing as “finished” if you want it to be…that’s what my wife keeps telling me…
Thank you for your suggestions. Sometimes you just want someone to confirm what you’re already thinking and suggest specific modules that you can do homework on. That’s when you get the aha moments, and realise this module can do more (or less) than you initially thought. So many modules, so little time!

There is no such thing as "finish"... modular synths are endlessly evolving custom instruments... maybe a case will be full at some point, but there are always other cases...

I think there is such a thing as “finished” if you want it to be…that’s what my wife keeps telling me…

hahahaha... no that is finished when someone else wants it to be... so not finished just in a state of inertia...

Thank you for your suggestions. Sometimes you just want someone to confirm what you’re already thinking and suggest specific modules that you can do homework on. That’s when you get the aha moments, and realise this module can do more (or less) than you initially thought. So many modules, so little time!

yeah yeah I know, but often what you want and what you need are 2 different things... pointers in the right direction and then doing the research yourself (reading the modwiggler threads & the manual multiple times - if there is one - and watching youtube videos etc before you buy the module) are imo way better and more rewarding than "buy this module its my favourite" can ever be, or at least they have been for me over the last 7 years since I bought my first modules

EDITED Apr 16th 2023, 22:48

I think there is such a thing as “finished” if you want it to be…that’s what my wife keeps telling me…
-- clivevass
Hahaha, my wife is just the same. She thinks it can be finished because she's not in it. As for her own projects - to me, many look finished, whereas for her, it's just the first step. It's a bit like guitar players. Some people think you buy a guitar and that's it. Except modular is worse, far worse ;-)

It's a bit like guitar players. Some people think you buy a guitar and that's it. Except modular is worse, far worse ;-)
-- Arrandan

hahahaha

Also being a guitar player, I'm not so sure that modular is worse!!!

there's a 1st crappy acoustic guitar, then a crappy electric and an amp, then an upgrade (probably for all 3), then another upgrade, then another electric and a hollow body and another electric and maybe a 12 string and some pedals along the way and more pedals and a pedal board and another amp and then upgrade the pedals etc etc

and then a bass and an amp and maybe some pedals for that etc

and suddenly you've got 6-10 guitars, a couple of amps, 10-20 pedals maybe more, probably a keyboard or 2, plus some recording equipment and other rack gear.... which could easily be way, way over 20k... possibly nearer 30... and that's with standard factory built guitars and amps, and no exotic hard to find pedals etc... start going towards an actual custom built guitar (by a named builder from a major manufacturer) or a desirable 'vintage' guitar, a hand wired point to point amp (or 2) and even a few unobtanium pedals and you could be over 30k just for one or 2 guitars, a couple of 'good' amps and a dozen or so pedals

and don't even think at looking at 'classical' instruments - like cellos - anything above a beginner model and you're talking thousands... and then there's the bow - more thousands... or a piano...

my ex used to not bat an eyelid at a couple of grand for a guitar... but couldn't understand why modules were often hundreds each... but she was really only accustomed to buying FMCG (as many people are) - clothes, shoes, consumer grade audio/visual, white goods etc - which are made in the hundreds of thousands if not millions and has never worked in retail or business...

but modules (and cases) aren't anything like FMCG - they're niche components of a custom 'professional' grade musical instrument... they're very low volume - the biggest selling module (Maths) is probably under 20k units in total... over 15 or more years... and most are probably in the hundreds or very low thousands in total... and made in batches of 10s or hundreds... and yet they still have to be designed, tested, refined, built, stored, shipped, retailed etc etc all of which adds up... and in a lot of cases are the same or similar costs as FMCG but have to be absorbed by a fraction of the sales.. which obviously drives the price up...

I never played a guitar for real myself, but I know things can get weird quickly when a guitar friend of mine (35+ years and counting) asked if he could buy my BeatStep Pro. Right. It's one of those "do boundaries even exist" moments. He's got about 20 guitars as well. Another friend tried to replace his rack of pedals by a one-does-it-all model ("Look, now my pickup is 30cm beyond the neck!"), only to find that other do-it-all models did other things.

Yeah, modules are very hard to grasp for non-modular people. Even if somebody is familiar with pedals, something like a VCA, panning scanner or modulation source (Orbit 3 for the win!) are completely alien. I just got the Error Instruments Tele Bender and I find I can't describe it in words to anybody who asks what it does. But it's so much fun! It gets even better because it's extremely pretty and looks like an obscurantis 19th century magick device from China (I got the red one), and only 30 will ever be made. I bought it to shock my fellow modular friends, partly at least.

In the meantime, I feel like modular is really making me think in components that connect together. I tried hooking up my Argon8 to my modular, which I succeeded in easily, but I had a hard time wrapping my head around all the capabilities in that synth. There's so much in there, coming at me all at the same time! I feel I'm already starting to find Bastl modules like Pizza and Ikarie hard to get because they do so much. They should just chop it up into 3 or 4 modules. Or make them 20hp wide instead of 8

Hello guys and gals,
I’m a bit stuck. Do I really need VCAs?
Do I need effects?
Do I need a mixer?
What would you do to finish off this rack?
Help would be very, very helpful.
Thanks.
-- clivevass

You may wanna ask yourself what's the purpose of your system. Show that rack to 10 different people and ask them what module they'd buy next. You'll get 10 different answers, all of which would take those people one step further towards their dream rack but may be completely irrelevant for your musical approach. Are there any modular synth artists or youtubers you really dig? Anything you'd like your system to do which it can't quite do yet? The answer to all of your questions is "no, you don't need that", if you're able to get all the results from your system you could wish for. Then all that's left to be added are some blank panels to cover up the holes.
As for my personal opinion and what I would add to the rack, I agree with JimHowell. Utilities are king. Switches, mixers, logic, attenuators/attenuverters.. Happy Nerding's 3x MIA covers a lot of these functions at only 6HP and it's really affordable, too. In fact I love all of Happy Nerding's utilities.
I'd definitely add a cascading/mixing quad VCA. Mutable's Veils appears on the used market now and then. Other great and inexpensive options are Intellijel's Quad VCA or ALM's Tangle Quartet. The latter one doesn't exactly have that cascading behaviour but has a mix output. Only linear response, too, other than Veils and Quad VCA.
I'd personally add another VCF, maybe a versatile dual one (Intellijel Morgasmatron, DinSync Sara, AJH Gemini, which is rather huge though), delay/echo/reverb like Mimeophon, some sort of end-of-chain mixer in order to blend wet and dry signals. Oh, and function generators (Shakmat Triple Steeple, Intellijel Quadrax, Joranalogue Contour 1, Cosmotronic Delta V). A designated CV mixer, too. I'd also have Assimil8or swap places with Tetrapad/Tête, just for the aesthetic of having them sit next to Metropolix (and because their inputs and outputs are located at the modules' top anyway which is great for bottom row modules).