Multitracking + feedback/expansion

Hey there,
this rack is just audio, sequencing+CV is done elsewhere

I'm starting to move in the direction of multitracking my eurorack system, to then be mixed in Ableton. I think this makes the most sense for my setup, though I am not sure about the workflow side of things. I'd prefer to stay OTB but Ableton provides 1) so much more flexibility for mixing and mastering 2) reverb/ambience/effects I think makes a lot of sense ITB 3) sampling probably makes more sense ITB, but I like the vibe of sampling OTB. Well regardless - my setup will consist of 3-4 voices that will be sent to Ableton from Happy Nerding Isolator (or 2, as 4xmono outs) to my Apollo Interface.

I have been thinking that an ER 301 could be a really good addition to this setup because it adds sampling/granular stuff, can be a sort of final mix/master before hitting the computer, could also add in reverb and delay stuff, also as additional VCAs, plus all of the other good stuff in there. But then I start thinking that all of that could be done by skipping the ER 301 and using the computer... But that sounds like a lot less fun, though more clinical.

Sorry for the rant and not a very clear question. Would love to hear any thoughts on the rack, multitracking, ER301, or my specific situation. Just trying to flesh out the best workflow that allows me to have fun, make good music, and mix that music properly. Thanks a lot.

EDITED Feb 11th 2021, 21:39

First up, separating your modulation/CV from your audio generators and modifiers is a really, REALLY bad idea. For one thing, if you wanted to use a logic gate as a waveshaper (which can be quite neat...results in nasty pulse waves!), you'd have to run a long cable all the way to the other cab, connect to the gate, then another long run back to your audio chain. This is just one example, and I know there's tons of others, but the point is that working this way is VERY inefficient and unintuitive. Remember: one of the strongest points to modular synthesis is that there's a certain degree of interchangeability between things that make noise, things that modify noise, and things that make those two things happen. And having everything in one place, as one unitized whole, is a thing that modular is prized for.

Second, if you have a stereo out here, where's the stereo mixer to feed the stereo out with a proper stereo image? I see a lot of HYUUJE (and in a couple of instances, pointlessly so) modules in a tiny 2 x 84 cab, crowding out any of the room you'll need for other things (VCAs, mixers, modifiers, etc etc) that make these big, expensive modules work to their fullest. This promises to turn into a problem pretty quickly if the target here is "3-4 voices"; if I were to use the DTM mixer as the primary qualifier of how many voices you ACTUALLY have, I'd pin that total at "1".

Remember, a "voice" isn't JUST a VCO. It's the signal chain that goes from a VCO, through a VCF for timbral modification, then through a VCA for amplitude modification. You simply don't have that here, ergo you're not even on track to having those 3-4 voices. You might (read: SHOULD) want to rethink what you're doing here, jettison the idea of splitting the modular functions up into separate cabs, and reconsider putting everything where it belongs...in the same case. It'll make what you're up to a lot clearer in the end.

Hey @Lugia, thanks for the input. I hear you loud and clear and thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Without showing you a picture, the setup is small enough where there are no long cables necessary (A100 and Intellijel 108hp that are perpindicular to eachother), but you're totally right when I start growing my set up. This was really just to make up for having a small case and the opportunity to add a smaller case to the mix.

Stereo out in this case could come from Out 1 + 2 of the ER301, but at the moment I'm actually just playing with using those 2 as individual mono outs from each Optomix out to the interface. Seeing how mixing in Ableton works and for producing purposes. So we'll see.

I like the voices, I know it takes up a lot of room (remember there is another 104hp row that is currently not smartly housing cv). I felt the Birdkids was an interesting choice vs AJH Minimod VCO and VCF (which is what i was considering). Verbos is a little big but I love it and doesnt really need a filter IMO. But I hear you on the signal path, etc being the point of a whole voice (though I would say I have 3 definite voices atm in this system, not sure why you disagree, understood its minimal), and thats making me reconsider on the ER301 path.

The ER301 is really just something I was thinking about that could solve some purposes/was having a crisis and rethinking things. Thank you for putting things back into perspective. I was just 1) figuring out my mixing situation that works best with my producing workflow and multitracking, 2) reverbs dont feel like a strongsuit of eurorack when I can use Eurorack or a OTO Bam, 3) I haven't found the sampler that I love yet, been thinking the Mungo G0.

Thanks again, Lugia.

EDITED Feb 12th 2021, 00:16

Hi @Lugia, I did some rethinking and got rid of the Bataleur (it had a noise issue as well). Working with this rack now. Much simpler and it sounds good so far. Trying to figure out what else could be a nice addition to this rack now. I'm thinking about a BBD delay, maybe an EQ, also thinking about trying to squeeze in a bass voice with the addition of another row. Reverb and delay are coming outside of the modular.

thanks

First up, separating your modulation/CV from your audio generators and modifiers is a really, REALLY bad idea. For one thing, if you wanted to use a logic gate as a waveshaper (which can be quite neat...results in nasty pulse waves!), you'd have to run a long cable all the way to the other cab, connect to the gate, then another long run back to your audio chain. This is just one example, and I know there's tons of others, but the point is that working this way is VERY inefficient and unintuitive. Remember: one of the strongest points to modular synthesis is that there's a certain degree of interchangeability between things that make noise, things that modify noise, and things that make those two things happen. And having everything in one place, as one unitized whole, is a thing that modular is prized for.

Second, if you have a stereo out here, where's the stereo mixer to feed the stereo out with a proper stereo image? I see a lot of HYUUJE (and in a couple of instances, pointlessly so) modules in a tiny 2 x 84 cab, crowding out any of the room you'll need for other things (VCAs, mixers, modifiers, etc etc) that make these big, expensive modules work to their fullest. This promises to turn into a problem pretty quickly if the target here is "3-4 voices"; if I were to use the DTM mixer as the primary qualifier of how many voices you ACTUALLY have, I'd pin that total at "1".

Remember, a "voice" isn't JUST a VCO. It's the signal chain that goes from a VCO, through a VCF for timbral modification, then through a VCA for amplitude modification. You simply don't have that here, ergo you're not even on track to having those 3-4 voices. You might (read: SHOULD) want to rethink what you're doing here, jettison the idea of splitting the modular functions up into separate cabs, and reconsider putting everything where it belongs...in the same case. It'll make what you're up to a lot clearer in the end.
-- Lugia

EDITED Feb 21st 2021, 14:07