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Thanks for sharing, some great info to dig into! :)

I'm here to say I'm very glad I got the smaller chainable pods. Even though the space/money value isn't optimal, it really helps with my fairly cramped studio setup.

Jim is correct, though, of course.

99% of the time, I think the Mantis would've been the way to go. It simply doesn't fit my space or workflow. :)

As it was, had to reorganize a bit yesterday just to fit it into my mixing desk in a manner that will be conducive to productivity.

Bits and pieces still arriving, got the first of it yesterday. :)

Sounds great, love it!

Thank you for sharing!!

Your second row 64 has 7 modules. But the 64 only has 6 power headers.
You'll need to lose a module or buy a Multi Power Cable accessory.
There's a 16/10pin and a 16pin version:
https://4mscompany.com/modaccessories.php

It looks like you plug the 16pin into a power header and then plug the 10pin (or 16pin) connectors directly to your other modules. That'll make more sense when you have your modules.

Don't forget to upgrade Plaits' firmware so you get the Orange mode!

And post your tunes! : )
-- Toccata

Thanks for info, I already have a couple of Multis on the way, as I foresaw this issue, and I like having an extra on hand for items such as this. :)

I just learned about the Plaits firmware update late last night. Sounds cool. Thank you for the reminder, though. This is accomplished through the 40 second wave file procedure, correct?

Re: Posting Tunes...I have a steep curve of experimentation, but I will definitely share when I have something worth sharing. :)

Thank you!

Finally managed to track down an Intellijel Quad VCA. It was one of the first modules I chose to have, and the last to be acquired.

Replaced the Z5000 with an ALM MFX. Feel much better about the FX situation now.

Added the Pico Mix for a submixer.

Added Plaits.

Can't wait to experiment.

Thanks for all the help!! Couldn't have done it without! :)

FYI, that last Plaits sold—was it you? That’s likely the end of new, store bought, Mutable Plaits.
-- Toccata

No, a touch too late!

BUT...I scooped another at modest cost, in excellent condition with the box and assorted accoutrements.

Thanks for the heads up! :) :)

most important effects:

filters, delay and reverb

next most important:

phasers, bit reduction, distortion (all varieties from overdrive upwards)

to justify having effects in rack they need to have a decent amount of modulation inputs and a decent amount of modulation sources to feed them though

one of the most important things for a guitarist/bassist who's using modular imo is to be able to use pedals to control the modular - with foot switches and expression pedals - so you can play the guitar/bass and wiggle the modular at the same time

I'm a guitarist too and whilst I don't have long or slender fingers - multiple small modules are unusable when next to each other - to be able to use a knob of any kind you need around 1cm clearance on at least 2 sides
-- JimHowell1970

Great info, thank you! :)

If you want to use effects pedals - you really want one (or more) pedal interface modules(s) - as euro level is way too high for a lot of them and the return will be way too low

dixie will massively benefit from a sub mixer

2hp modules can be extremely difficult to work due to ergonomics

everything (as usual) points to a bigger case!!!
-- JimHowell1970

Re: 2hp ergonomics. I'm a guitarist... have long, thin, agile fingers, but thanks for the heads up. :p

Sub-mixer need noted.

I'm not sure I'm going to use the pedal boards or not at this point. I may be using them concurrently (twiddling knobs with a guitar/bass on the shoulder). I will wait to see how this all fits into my work flow. Right now, I'm leaning towards using guitar FXs in line and going through the A-119.

Not the same, I know, which is why I again ask, which effects are most crucial in your opinion(s)? Delay? Reverb? Something else?

Thanks and appreciation! :)

As you see, but you will have 8 potential voices (6 dixie + 2 Plaits) and no effects.
-- ferranadsr

Hmm, I suppose 2hp stuff is worth delving into at this point.

If I had to go bare bones on FX, which are most crucial, that I could possibly cover with 2hp stuff?
Delay? Reverb?

EDIT: I guess I should mention again that I can bring FX into the mix through pedalboards prior to signal input into the A-119. I have a lot of effects-laden guitar stuff, so I can appreciate a "dry" synth in the mix. Still, I don't want it completely sterile, and I won't always be patching my guitar through.

EDITED Feb 7th 2023, 07:02

So Intellijel Quad VCA (12 HP), Plaits (12 HP), and a small mixer like Erica Synths Pico Mixer (3 HP)....leaves me with 2 HP too many if I keep the Z5000.

If I get Plaits, can I ditch the Z5000?

With Quad VCA, Plaits, and Pico Mixer, (minus the Z5000) that leaves me with an attractive 6 HP remaining.

Thoughts?

Thx!

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2165875.jpg

This is where it stands now...with a few pieces yet to be found.

Notes:
- Additions: Doepfer A-119 external in for instruments. Pico LPG. Make Noise X-Pan. Most crucially Erica Synth Dual VCF.
-The 0-ctrl was added to the pic by adding a "third rack." Ignore the "empty spaces" on this "rack," as nothing can mount there.
- I now have serious doubts about the Z5000. That was the last (admittedly probably pretty poor) choice after a long process of getting first order in. I will most likely return this, unless I can be persuaded otherwise. If this is removed...
- That leaves 33 HP left.

I feel like I'm missing something like an Intellijel Quad VCA. Thoughts?

Am I still short a mixer? Not sure if the X-Pan is enough on that front...

Any other oversights? Must haves?

As always, thanks and much appreciated!

Edit: Also, the Arturia Keystep suggestion above is something I'm seriously considering, and is a road I will probably end up going down, simply based purely on value for money. So thanks for that! :) B-)

EDITED Feb 7th 2023, 05:32

Many of us follow the "on budget" restriction, but I see the 4ms pod more as an auxiliary box, and not very comfortable to chain with others. In addition to the recommended TipTop mantis (6U 104 HP) you have some less ambitious options to start with. For example https://koma-elektronik.com/?product=koma-case-3u-84hp-powered which would cost you about €90 more than the 4MS. The good thing about it is the system to grow, you can easily add another 84Hp case using the same source, depending of course on the consumption of modules that you include. €90 is money in real life but nothing in the modular world, believe me.
Regarding the modules, I miss a quantized pitch source and some gate or clock generator.
A filter is essential too. Doepfer has good filters at very affordable prices.
The VCA and envelopes part you have covered at the moment with Maths.
A small mixer (perhaps also from Doepfer) will allow you to send more than one signal from your Dixie (it has 6 outputs) to the Z5000.
To start and adjust to the budget you can always look at modules from Ladik or Doepfer. They have many utilities at a very good price.
-- ferranadsr

I realize the case is small. My thought was for expansion to happen via a second daisy-chained case. I'll also admit to being eager to get started. My thought process was, for better or worse, that I could get my hands on a few good pieces, learn what I've got, what I lack, and then build out the second case based on that. ;)

I do most of my musical stuff on what people would call "the budget" end of things, so not sure I'll ever end up with the rigs you guys have, and that's okay. I'm more interested in setting up an exploratory tool for playing with raw sound. My creative output thrives on limits and finding ways around those to find unorthodox methodologies and sounds. This is a supplemental tool to stimulate the creative process, and not necessarily for the creation of an entirety of a performance, if that makes sense. At risk of sounding pretentious. ;) :p

OK so a mantis costs a bit more than the tiny 'budget case' that you got but it has over 3 times as much space - so in reality it is the "budget option" - just a slightly more long term budget option - a bit like buying a jumbo pack of dishwasher tablets or whatever...

and a mantis on it's own is still quite a small modular & there's no need to fill it in one go... etc etc... and still very portable if that's an issue for you... work out the cost/hp and you'll see what I mean

I'd spend some time figuring out what modules you actually want and those that you need to support them, before buying another case - build the case around the modular instead of constraining the modular to the case... otherwise you end up serially buying small cases - which ends up more expensive than the slightly bigger case

I get that I need a filter. I also had a quad mixer, more vcos, and xoh on the list. I waited on the xoh to see if I can just pad it through analog mixer.

most decent analog mixers made in the last 20 years should be able to cope with modular levels, especially when padded, I have a 15+ year old yamaha mg10 that works perfectly as an end of chain mixer for modular - but this doesn't mean that you won't want sub-mixers or matrix mixers in the rack - you probably will

If I were to, say, double the setup with a daisy-chained case, what would you say the necessary modules would be, specifically on the utility side of things?

don't get another tiny case!!! get the mantis!!!!! see above!

but: a low pass filter, a low pass gate, a waveshaper, sub-mixers, attenuators, attenuverters, matrix mixer, logic, a sequential switch, a clock divider would all be good starting points - and definitely look at doepfer and ladik for these (but make sure the tiny case is deep enough!!) - most of my utilities are doepfer

-- JimHowell1970

Infinitely helpful, thank you all!

Re: cases. Noted. Most likely a mistake on my part, but it is what it is at this point. I'm fairly confident I'll be able to make two 64HP cases fit into my workflow just fine, if maybe not optimally; but, I do appreciate the info. I get the value of the bigger cases, etc. I do understand your point, but like I said, is what it is at this point, so further trying to sell me on another case, while good advice....that ship has sailed. ;)

Like Jim said, "the folly"... :D :p

If I can't get two pod64x's to fit into my workflow, I promise I'll man up, come back and admit it! And get a Mantis. ;) :)

Probably a dumb question that will expose my ignorance, but can't the 0-ctrl act as clock/gate/sequential switch?

Or do I need to pair that with an external clock/gate/sequencer, etc. for those features to work? I get that I CAN, but do I NEED to? Or will using the 0-ctrl clock be sufficient in that regard?

I've got more research (and a lot of experimenting) to do but you guys have helped to steer me in a good direction. Appreciate it!

Personally, I would switch the Dixie for a Plaits (the sounds of the Dixie are covered in just the first three synthesis modes on the Plaits: variable saw and pulse, hard sync, FM, waveshaping. And then with Plaits there's the formant, additive, wavetable, wave terrain, vowel, granular, particle, resonator, drum modes, etc. not to mention the firmware upgrade where you can add your own sounds)—big value for a little case. I promise.

And I would switch the Source of Uncertainty for a Wogglebug, which markets itself as an expansion of the Buchla design anyways. And it's like half the size. That frees you up 10hp for an additional module—you have six slots in the 64X.

With daisy-chained cases giving you 128hp, and this bit you wrote:

"I'm more interested in setting up an exploratory tool for playing with raw sound. My creative output thrives on limits and finding ways around those to find unorthodox methodologies and sounds."

I would recommend a Morphagene or Arbhar. It might also be a good idea to get a module that you can send to your pedalboards. Something like: ALM006 - S.B.G.

As for the rest, you've got it right: "I could get my hands on a few good pieces, learn what I've got, what I lack, and then build out the second case based on that."

Learn on the job and you'll learn fast.
-- Toccata

I appreciate the feedback!

Your post really helps me realize I'm on the right track (if still in need of guidance). I had deeply considered the Wogglebug, and unfortunately I psyched myself out not wanting too many pieces from one manufacturer...feels too semi-modular for my tastes. I also considered Morphagene, and to a lesser degree, Plaits...this is out of production, yes? Though decidedly awesome, I admit.

Would leaving the dixie as a good LFO source and finding something like Plaits as the main oscillator be useful? If not Plaits, what else would fit the bill there? Oh I see Brains is based on Plaits. Any other clones I should be aware of?

Good call on the ALM006 - S.B.G. I had wrongfully assumed for output to pedalboards that I needed to do no more than just use a 1/8" > 1/4" TS convertor.

This is different than just a headphone out jack utility, right?

What could I use to really make the clock/sequencer part of the 0-ctrl pop with the Uncertainty Gen? A subdivider? This is where I'm really struggling to find the right utilities.

Thanks for the words of encouragement and the thoughtful answers!

EDITED Feb 5th 2023, 04:49

and the link - cos jpgs are crap!!!

ah the folly...

dixie and maths I get - they're some of the most popular modules in their "function"

the source of uncertainty I also get as it's new - but far far too big for this case!!!!

don't really get the z5000 or the vca - other than they fit

if you haven't bought this my advice would be to go and read a load of other newbie posts, think hard and then come back with a rack that makes more sense - but I'm not sure this is the case so:

the case is far too small for the modules - there's not really enough space for the support modules you'll need to make the most of the modules you've got in this case - I'd stash this case for the future when you might want a small satellite case and go and buy a mantis - so that you have space to put some utilities and a filter in - I take it you already have an external mixer (although these are really useful - especially when you add another oscillator and want to send both to the same filter)

see my signature for some hints on how to get a versatile modular synthesizer for the least cash
-- JimHowell1970

Appreciate the feedback!

I realize the case is small. My thought was for expansion to happen via a second daisy-chained case. I'll also admit to being eager to get started. My thought process was, for better or worse, that I could get my hands on a few good pieces, learn what I've got, what I lack, and then build out the second case based on that. ;)

I do most of my musical stuff on what people would call "the budget" end of things, so not sure I'll ever end up with the rigs you guys have, and that's okay. I'm more interested in setting up an exploratory tool for playing with raw sound. My creative output thrives on limits and finding ways around those to find unorthodox methodologies and sounds. This is a supplemental tool to stimulate the creative process, and not necessarily for the creation of an entirety of a performance, if that makes sense. At risk of sounding pretentious. ;) :p

I get that I need a filter. I also had a quad mixer, more vcos, and xoh on the list. I waited on the xoh to see if I can just pad it through analog mixer.

If I were to, say, double the setup with a daisy-chained case, what would you say the necessary modules would be, specifically on the utility side of things?

Filter, vcos, I guess I'm struggling with which utilities to pair here.

The Z500o seemed a good choice to add some tonal flavor.

Thanks again.

Longtime multi-instrumentalist (primarily guitarist, but have a dawless home recording setup with drums, bass guitar, keys, analog mixer, pedalboards, et al.) So I know what I'm doing on that end of things.

Just discovered Eurorack! Instantly smitten!

Big fan of artists such as Klaus Schulze, Manuel Gottsching, YMO, Kraftwerk, Dominique Guiot, etc. Love musique conrete, generative music theory, Stockhausen...you get the idea.

Decided to pull the trigger on a "budget" first rack, to get me started, dip my toes in the water, and see how things shake out before (probably) expanding (as needed).

Totally new to synth patching, but comfortable with hands-on-learning, controlled chaos, and trial through error. Also, open to learning anything and everything!

If I'm doing something stupid with my setup, or missing something key I'd love to get your constructive feedback so I can learn.

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2163810.jpg

Thanks!

Edit: The Make Noise 0-ctrl doesn't seem to be showing up. Will be running that with this setup.
2nd Edit: Forgot to mention the case is a powered 4ms Pod64X. :)

EDITED Feb 4th 2023, 22:44