Help to continue my dark ambient rack

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2258232.jpg

Hi all !
I come to ask for your help to help me continue filling my case :)
I would like with my modular to be able to do ambient / dark ambient (and to be able to play it live if I can do it).
But I would also like to be able to create dark atmospheres and fx for my techno tracks.
I am also very attracted to generative music.
I already have all the modules indicated in my rack.
For now I use an analog four to clock the rené
I looking for If possible modules with not too much diving in the menus but I accept anyway.
I also specify that I had an Erica synth black polivoks filter that I sold, because i would like a more complex filter.
Could you help me to find somes ideas of a rack that would work well ?

I don't know all the modules on the market and their functionality so it's hard to get an idea of my "perfect synthesizer"
So I bought these modules because they attracted me or were recommended by friends but I don't have an exact idea yet of how I want to work with my modular apart from what I have said above.
So everything is not very well thought out upstream even if I think that I have not made a bad choice so far and that I like each of my modules.

I haven't fully grasped the eurorack world yet, and I don't have a sharp enough mind to think through a complex patch and get exactly where I want it.
But staying only with the modules I currently have does not help me move forward because I quickly have limitations in all my ideas.
that's why i need you

For now I can use effects with ableton to save money and space.
Except if you advise me rather to have eurorack effects?
I wouldn't mind being able to play it without a computer.

I think I'm not bad modulation for now.
I think I would need a new filter, several other vcos, I had the Honda piston in my sights.
In utility I don't know yet what I might need apart from a mixer and an output module (because I currently take the stereo output from the cloud) and a clock to be autonomous.
and maybe effects?
I'm waiting for your recommendation .

If you can advise me on what I need to achieve my goals that would be great
see you soon 🙂

A visualization of your rack that is just as ambient but much less ‘dark’.
We made a first step :)

Since I don't hear anyone coming, here is a proposal on the basis of your indications. But beware, others are much better at this than I am. I hope for your sake that they will come to our rescue.

Spend time with what you have... It's a good selection. Sweelinck does a great job of finishing out the case with some nice options based on what you mentioned and I agree... Filter, mixer, fxaid xl or pro and outs would be my next steps as well. All very personal choices... Put your research hat on and happy wiggling

EDITED May 21st 2023, 12:09

Hi,
Thanks for the picture! I couldn't post it like that.
Yes indeed more ambient than dark…
Thank you very much for your recommendation sweelinck! It looks great and very complete!
I will go and find out about each module and watch videos, thank you very much 🙂
I will come back to you if I have a question about one of the functions of this rack

Thank you dub007 it reassures me to tell myself that I made the right choices and I agree sweelinck did a great job 🙂

If anyone else has another rack recommendation / idea to open my mind, I'll take it 🙂

EDITED May 21st 2023, 12:51

Ok, this was a neat challenge. But to be honest, I think my solution might need some work. I like where Sweelinck was headed (particularly with the Morphagene), as well. Maybe one of the real power users will come along and give some suggestions. But let me show you where my thinking is leading, and you can do with that as you will.

For starters, I kept almost all the modules you've already gotten, only switching out your passive mult for a buffered mult. A passive mult does not do as good a job as a buffered when multing signals; if you want to mult 1v/oct signals, you'll want a buffered mult so there is no drop in voltage. Also, I'd get a multi-cable rather than a passive mult, to save space. The other thing to consider is that the Rene, as badass as it is, takes up 32hp. That's pretty dear for a sequencer, even one as powerful as Rene. You have 104 hp to use (if the above case is accurate), don't waste nearly a third of it on a sequencer. Get something off rack like a BSP, or go for a bigger case so you don't have to sacrifice other modules for Rene.

Keeping in mind that you are interested in dark ambient with a hint of generative, I did the following (listed by function).

Top Row: Random voltages, VCOs (3 v/oct ins), multimode filter (2 inputs), mults, Maths (so many functions, but at most basic, a mixer/attenuverter/function generator), audio manipulation in the form of uClouds and uRings, function/envelopes/quad cascading VCA.
Bottom Row: Clocking, modulators, attenuverters, S/H and T/H, sequencer, precision adder, sequential switch, uO_C (so many functions, only two levels of menu diving), and end of chain VCAs, effects, and mixers.

My thought is that you could use the bottom row to supply motion, modulation, attenuation, triggers, gates, and sequences. These can be manipulated or quantized (which Rene can already do, but what if you use you S/H for a melody?) or so many other things using uO_C. After that you have another VCA and then end of chain processing. I give you for effects the Happy Nerding FX Aid XL, which sounds great, though you will want to have a printout of the different settings at hand. There's a new version out with a screen, but you don't have the hp for it at the moment.

The top row has sound sources, giving you 3 digital voices that come out of the VCOs ready to go. However, if you wanted to filter further, the Filter 8 gives you plenty to play with. And Joranalogue always throws extra functionality into their modules. Then Maths, which is so handy it needs its own post. Then sound processing in uClouds and uRings. I generally prefer the real article to clones, but it makes sense with MI's situation and your hp. Finally, function/envelope generation and VCAs to craft the shape of the sound.

My typical approach to building a rack is to try to think through the signal path as I plan. From beginning to end, where might I need to send voltages, or what parameters will I want to mangle? That way I can start thinking about the system as an instrument rather than a collection of modules.

Finally, there are utilities. These are hard to figure out without trying them, unless you're already blessed with electrical engineering experience. I mean, how are you supposed to know that sequential switches can be your best friend when building longer sequences, or that precision adders rock, or that comparators are game changers for generative music? The uO_C, particularly with Hemispheres loaded, gives you a chance to test them all out and decide what you actually need. In general (adapting something Sweelinck said in another thread), if you think of your system as a building, the oscillators, filters, and fancy modules are rooms, but you need the utilities to act as hallways and corridors (and sometimes fun-house mirrors) to get from room to room. I highly recommend looking up some videos about different utilities to get a better sense of what they do. Loopop, Mylarmelodies, and DivKid were sources I went to when I was figuring this out, and I found them invaluable.

Anyways, maybe one of the really experienced folks will tell you something different. But it looks like you're on a good path, you just need to think more about the architecture and connecting pieces of your system.

Good luck!

EDITED May 21st 2023, 13:27

What do you think of this?

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2260141.jpg
(I didnt succeed to import the picture straight into here, without link)

4ms wavetable navigator: Ambient main voice for melodies, drones, chords, timbres - own sequencer, envelopes, or lfos
4ms Ensemble Oscillator: 2. voice for drones, chords, texture, timbres
Plonk: for random percussion and physical modeling
Noise Pleththora + Percall: for ambient noises and rhytmical noise patterns
mini plaits: for additional stuff like drums, perc or synthlines
Ikarie: main stereo filter with vca
Basil: for delay + blurry space FX (in only 8 hp)
Disting: for swappable Utility, such as sample and hold, .....
quad vca: nice vca
ochd: nice lfos in 4 hp.
active mults
Attenuator
Befaco stereo mixer
Befaco outs

Maybe you could at least integrate

• 4ms Ensemble Oscillator
  and / or
• 4ms wavetable navigator

I love them for ambient - they are fantastic
For drones, chords, timbres all the chilling fun

4ms wavetable navigator acts also as sequencer and / or envelope generator / or lfos
You could spare some other utilities for this

4ms Ensemble Oscillator - it just lifts off to new dimensions

maybe - "Bastl Basil" for delay + blurry space FX (in only 8 hp) its quiet new and cool

I didn´t see first that you already have some modules.

So I would do maybe something like this with it:

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2260218.jpg

You can also swap the firmware of basil to pizza, and you have a fm synth with waveshaping and stuff.

• 4ms Ensemble Oscillator
  and / or
• 4ms wavetable navigator

I love them for ambient - they are fantastic
For drones, chords, timbres all the chilling fun

-- MCGM

Not to hijack the thread, but curious if you had a favorite between the two? Both have peaked my interest, but I've not had the chance to try either.

Not to hijack the thread, but curious if you had a favorite between the two? Both have peaked my interest, but I've not had the chance to try either.

-- HGsynth

I think, you can archieve similar results with both, for ambient drones, melodies and chords.
I love both.

In short:
If I want do dig deep and focus on one module (maybe for hours) in the patch - I take the SWN.
If I want instant chills - I take the EO

I think the sound of EO is very special and it sounds always amazing no matter how I twist the knobs.
I love the character of bright and spread sounds on the EO.
For my opinion the EO is more fast forward for instant good results. I like that it is based on sinus waves and spreads into 16 voices. You can do very ethereal and bright sounds and even dark twisted sounds with it - very quick.

The Spherical Wavetable Navigator is a very deep and complex module. It has a longer learning curve - and it is more a closed system to run on itself. You can spend hours just tweaking it and discovering amazing sounds without any other module involved in your patch. It has 6 independent voices, based on wavetables that can be morphed with 3 dimensions.
The sound is also amazing and the possibilities are endless.

I think the SWN is sometimes a bit hard to tame, if you dont know excactly what you are doing.

Both have quantization and chord spreads.

I use the Ensemble Oscillator mostly to get a instant evolving drone going and combine it with more sound elements.
I use the SWN mostly to start a complex sequence as a main leading sound theme

EDITED May 22nd 2023, 20:23

I use the Ensemble Oscillator mostly to get a instant evolving drone going and combine it with more sound elements.
I use the SWN mostly to start a complex sequence as a main leading sound theme >

Thanks for the in depth reply! Unfortunately, it looks like the only real answer is to get both, of course! But it seems like the EO might be a better team player in a smaller rack and more immediately impactful. That SWN seems like a dream, though. Maybe someday. Thanks again!

EDITED May 22nd 2023, 22:01

@MCGM Very clear description and extremely interesting comparison!
@HGsynth Thanks for this hijacking. But after such an answer, yes my friend, we unfortunately need both :))

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2258232.jpg

Hi all !
......

Sorry for my bad english. With respect, I'm very.interested to this topic because I like dark.ambient.
First, please consider the large part of dark ambient musicians plays with software. Never seen one of them plays with modular synths (maybe Nordvargr with his Serge synth). Anyway, I suggest you don't waste your time and money with René, sequencers, envelopers and any rhythmically-based gears. Go straight to 3 units:
sampler,
effects (reverb, delay),
LFO.
First of all, Morphagene, if you can afford it. Dark ambient is based to sampling. From the field recording sessions to the minimalistic details.
Also, you need effects of course, in particular reverb and delay (and a bit of distortion too). Eurorack effect modules costs very much but you can solve better with a pedal interface module, like ADDAC 200PI, to connect pedals and stompboxes that you can manipulate in real time. In my modest opinion, reverb pedals like DBA Rooms, Strymon xSky, Eventide and the more cheaper Walrus, Blackhole, Boss, all of them give you more better performance then all the various eurorack pumped monikers.
LFO. You can go with every module you want, you have Batumi and it's perfect.
These are the fundamental ones you need.
About all the rest (more sound sources and modulations) you can go with everything you want.
Hope it could be useful.

How are you defining dark ambient?

How does it differ from 'regular' ambient?

EDITED May 25th 2023, 07:52

In my modest opinion, dark ambient started with the "Heresy" album by Lustmord and the rest of his production from there. Also Mick Harris Lull project and all the scandinavian monikers like Svartsinn, Kammarheit, Deathwalk, several Nordvargr albums and many more, passing to an enormous worldwide network artists. But I forgot someones for sure.
As sounds, dark ambient is based to obscure atmospheres with dark drones as portant base (bass sound rumbles generated to low frequency sounds, amplified by lush reverb and slow delay and also to audio impulses like sinister noises, breathing voices, disturbant field recordings and many more.
In this sense, I think the sampler is more useful then any intricated enveloped modular synth patches.
Regular ambient I presume it goes to a more "new age" direction.
Not starting a flame war but this is just my personal opinion.
Please, apologize me for my bad english and because I was been verbose.

EDITED May 25th 2023, 10:46

In my modest opinion, dark ambient started with the "Heresy" album by Lustmord and the rest of his production from there. Also Mick Harris Lull project and all the scandinavian monikers like Svartsinn, Kammarheit, Deathwalk, several Nordvargr albums and many more, passing to an enormous worldwide network artists. But I forgot someones for sure.
As sounds, dark ambient is based to obscure atmospheres with dark drones as portant base (bass sound rumbles generated to low frequency sounds, amplified by lush reverb and slow delay and also to audio impulses like sinister noises, breathing voices, disturbant field recordings and many more.
In this sense, I think the sampler is more useful then any intricated enveloped modular synth patches.
Regular ambient I presume it goes to a more "new age" direction.
Not starting a flame war but this is just my personal opinion.
Please, apologize me for my bad english and because I was been verbose.
-- RossMotus669

Do you mind me asking what attracts you to this genre?

In my modest opinion....

Do you mind me asking what attracts you to this genre?

-- gumbo23

No problem. But my reply was gone off topic maybe... This thread is about to evolve the personal modular setup of the post author into a dark ambient direction and I replied that the large part of the dark ambient musicians plays softwares and not modular gears, except someone of course. Ad also I think it's more better going to sampler and effect gears too, instead of sequencers and/or rhythmic based modules that they don't make so much sense to this scope, because this is a music genre totally based to evocative obscure atmospheres, then rumbles, sinister field recordings, atonals, whispers, voices, disturbant noises, orchestral and choir sequences, and of course dark drones that give the sensation of a large disquiet space. And personally I like very much all of them.

No problem. But my reply was gone off topic maybe... This thread is about to evolve the personal modular setup of the post author into a dark ambient direction and I replied that the large part of the dark ambient musicians plays softwares and not modular gears, except someone of course. Ad also I think it's more better going to sampler and effect gears too, instead of sequencers and/or rhythmic based modules that they don't make so much sense to this scope, because this is a music genre totally based to evocative obscure atmospheres, then rumbles, sinister field recordings, atonals, whispers, voices, disturbant noises, orchestral and choir sequences, and of course dark drones that give the sensation of a large disquiet space. And personally I like very much all of them.

-- RossMotus669

Do you have any music online I can check out?

Searching for albums by Lustmord, Lull, New Risen Throne, Deathwalk, Svartsinn, Nordvargr (Pyrrula album), Vestigial, Inade, Apocryphos, Kammarheit/Cities Last Broadcast, all about the Cyclic Law and Cryo Chamber labels and also the "this is darkness" webzine (here you can find a very interesting topic just about the most personal equipments of various musicians of this genre).
If you mean myself stuff, there are not so much things because I was very discontinued for various personal issues and currently I no longer deal with music. Hope it will be useful for you. Best regards.

Searching for albums by Lustmord, Lull, New Risen Throne, Deathwalk, Svartsinn, Nordvargr (Pyrrula album), Vestigial, Inade, Apocryphos, Kammarheit/Cities Last Broadcast, all about the Cyclic Law and Cryo Chamber labels and also the "this is darkness" webzine (here you can find a very interesting topic just about the most personal equipments of various musicians of this genre).
If you mean myself stuff, there are not so much things because I was very discontinued for various personal issues and currently I no longer deal with music. Hope it will be useful for you. Best regards.
-- RossMotus669

You have a great taste in music! I would like to add: Council of Nine, Raison D'etre, beyond Sensory Experience, Desirerii Marginis, Musica Cthulhiana. A modular must for dark ambiant (in my opinion) is a spring reverb unit with a nice big tank!

Thank you very much. Agree about the reverb in a tank! :-D)))))
Anyway, in this topic we're talkin'about "dark ambient".
Obvioulsy everybody can play every genres in all the way he/she like, of course.
And if somebody want to do it, with modesty I suggested to focus the resources to a Morphagene or Nebula 2 (or both) and pedal interface as primarly (and pedals of course, digital stereo reverb as first). Also considering a quad LFO, a multimode VCF and the more possible VCA/mixer you can take.
Instead of waste your bucks to sequencers, envelopers, oscillators and clocks you don't need.
With respect, I read Pamela NW and René, what are they for dark-ambient?
Probably someone are convinced that's sh*t like Board of Canada or Aphex Twin....
Just my 2 cents.

EDITED May 26th 2023, 15:38

i would also recommend Zadar and the Fx aid pro

Spend time with what you have...
-- Dub007

This is always a very good suggestion. In my experience, if I want to make pop-techno-trance-EBM-ambient, I can do it with the same setup. That's 7U 104 + 6U 84hp. It's a matter of getting to know your gear.

Instead of waste your bucks to sequencers, envelopers, oscillators and clocks you don't need.
With respect, I read Pamela NW and René, what are they for dark-ambient?
Probably someone are convinced that's sh*t like Board of Canada or Aphex Twin....
-- RossMotus669

Rhythm may be of lesser importance in (dark) ambient but that doesn't mean it's entirely incompatible. For example, Atrium Carceri has plenty of tracks with implicit, or even subtly explicit, rhythm. A clock can be used to clock effects as well. You don't need to use it as a 4/4 beat only. For example, try an irregular Euclidean (e.g. 17/32) with some serious trigger dropping to get very irregular movement that doesn't seem completely out of place. I have PNW and just worked on a dark ambient track. For my previous track, I think I could've used a second one. But for this dark ambient one, I'm still using over half the outputs. As for sequencer - depends on what you want. Plenty of dark ambient uses plain piano melodies - nothing wrong with that. And don't forget the output of a sequencer is just a voltage. It's up to you if you use it for V/Oct, or filter cutoff, or delay times, or whatever you want. Add slew for fun and games.

EDITED Jul 8th 2023, 23:14