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Evening modular people, fairly new to eurorack so need a bit of advice. I bought Frames as a mixer because the key frame idea appealed to me, being able to fade in one source or sequence as you lose two and leave another more or less dominant in the mix with the turn of one knob sounded great on paper. In practice it is a bit clumsy and setting the levels up how you want is pretty hit and miss, it also can’t be used on fly at all unless you’ve got two separate systems running in tandem so I’m left with essentially a quite expensive 4 channel mixer. I appreciate it can do the same trick with CVs and has other hidden depths but at this stage that’s not what i’m after, saving grace it has a really crackly pot so can be returned BUT - do I need the VCA/attenuator element of the module? I’m thinking of exchanging it for the Pittsburgh Modular system interface which offers me some much more practical useful features in a mixer but will I need to purchase VCAs to get decent levels out? I should add the modules on the far right are not part of the setup but the next purchases to be made from the ever expanding wish list. Any input is appreciated.
Looking at the build pic and reading what you're trying to do here, I think that the Frames is a poor choice with as few modulation sources as your build has. Also, the Pittsburgh...while it's a good mixer...won't do what you want, either. And as for attenuating the output (which I'm a bit confused about your description of here), it doesn't matter what mixer you use, you have to attenuate an output to a line-level input because synth-level signals are quite a bit hotter than regular line-level.
If I were facing the same problem, I would first go with a different mixer altogether, namely one which has its main functions under CV control, but which doesn't have extra complexities. The Frames is really more intended as an audio signal "morpher" than just a mixer, and the Pitt module isn't as automated. Instead of either one, have a look instead at Qu-bit's Mixology, which is a four-channel mixer with CV over channel level, pan, and effect send and the additional utility of channel mutes and solos.
BUT...and this is pretty critical for making a build succeed overall...you desperately need more modulation sources. I don't see any additional EGs or LFOs, which are major bread-n-butter modules in of themselves, that can be dedicated to envelopes for your level VCAs or effect send VCAs or LFOs for panning and most everything as well. Plus, even with this different mixer, you will still need some sort of output level attenuator/control to keep from running your mixer input into immediate distortion.
At the basic level, this isn't a good build at all. Your Moog devices really should stay in their own OEM cabs if you're building in 84 hp cabs, otherwise they're hogging space that needs to be there for other things. There are no VCAs (linear or exponential) outside of the Moogs, nor any LFOs or envelope generators beyond what the Moogs offer. I would strongly suggest that you stop what you're doing with this, step back, and take some time examining other builds by experienced users as well as classic modular/patchable instruments to see what those people or companies are/were doing. Take some time to go through the forums here, also, plus at other sites such as Muff Wiggler, Synthtopia, etc to get a more concrete idea of how to proceed. Do the very necessary research before continuing, because modular can be a very effective way to create...but conversely, a very effective hole down which money gets uselessly thrown if one has no clear idea of what they're doing. Sure, they look cool and all, which is why a lot of people right now are drooling over them, but without a clear understanding of what you're doing and why you're doing it when creating a build, it doesn't matter how cool it is, it'll just be a waste of your time and money.
Thanks Lugia, the build is basically finished, adding Pamela as a clock and modulation source, the Quadnic and couple more quick intuitive sequencers( a pair of stepper acids perhaps or even a another pair of Metropoli - is that the plural of Metropolis?)at some point and ditching the Chord is as far as it’s going ( ha ha). The Moogs are still separate but just put in the rack for the purposes of the thread. I just realised I missed out what is actually quite a key component- a WMD Pro out so I’ve got no issues with the line out so far, the rack is going into an external mixer basically to provide a soundscape/rhythm section for a Voyager OS and Sub37, theremin and guitar- the Pittsburgh mixer appealed because I can run the guitar via a UA Oxbox into the modular system and share guitar pedals between the synth and guitar as well as being able to mess with the guitar signal. The automation thing isn’t critical on the mixer as pretty much as soon as I plugged Frames in I realised it’s like programming- and I HATE programming! Your point about VCAs, envelope generators and LFOs is taken on board, I’m just a bit lost as to the best way to go in this area- just discovered the joy of sending the LFO square and triangle from the M32 to the aux inputs of the Metropolis controlling the 2hp pluck and realised how much they open up the potential of a system, as to envelopes- could an ADSR module be easily synced or triggered with my existing set up plus Pamela?
Thanks for the Qubit tip- I think that’s the way I’ll go, and scrap my sequencer ideas-the voltage block seems to do exactly what I’m looking for ie subtly shifting harmonies but in a pretty small footprint, the note entry seems a bit clumsy but looks like it might yield plenty of happy accidents though.
I did some work on this, along with your explanations of what you're trying to do. This should be suitable...
The bottom row is your control surfaces: Melody Mill, Mixology, an added joystick, and your stereo out. But you'll notice that, first, there IS a joystick and the output isn't the WMD. Here's why: first, having an extra control for expression, making global changes, and the like is pretty important. I went with a joystick here because it's a bit easier to flick around when playing other instruments. And the Happy Nerding output has the extra plus of an extra stereo pair that can be mixed in with the fixed-level input. That one's useful because, if you look just above it, there's a send-return module, which sends one mono signal and returns a stereo pair. With this, you can put an external processor into the mix as a parallel process.
Next row...multiple, Metropolis (keep that), then a Shifty, your ARP, and a Malekko setup with the Varigate4+ and Voltage Block. The Erica DSP is next to this and the aforementioned send-return next to that, located so that they're convenient to the mixer's AUX i/o and the main output. The Shifty is an analog shift register, which is a variation on a sample and hold that, each time it receives a clock pulse, shifts the stored voltage on one output to the next while loading a new one, and does this X4. This can also build up different sorts of arpeggiations, intricate hocket patterns, etc depending on how you decide to patch it up and makes an interesting tandem with the ARP. The Varigate4+ got added to give you memory for the Voltage Block plus some better/more complex control functions over that module.
Above that is modulation and VCAs. I added the Pexp-1 for the Pamela's to send clocking out from that via either MIDI or DINsync, which makes it easier to run the Pamela's as a master clock for the entire rig instead of just the modular. And yes, the Pamela's is a good choice with envelopes, LFO sync, sequencer clocking, and quite a bit more. The next two modules are Doepfer A-171-2s, which are clones of the Serge VCS (and which also are half of a Maths) and can work as a lot of different modulation sources. They're extremely versatile. The Contour gives you four loopable AR envelopes, which means they can function either as EGs or user-defineable-waveform LFOs. Four more conventional ADSRs are after that, then you'll find an Erogenous Tones VC8, which works both as eight separate linear VCAs or as two sets of four into one mixers with VCA control. These are DC-coupled, which will let them work equally well on CVs as well as audio. Last up, another mult.
Top row: two Quadnics, then four of the 2hp Plucks. This gives you three signals per 'voice' in a four-part paraphonic-type configuration, but also allows for a lot more. Next to that is a dual ring modulator, then two different Ladik waveshaping modules. After this are two Bubblesound mixers that can either be configured as 6 -> 1 or two 3 -> 1s, as needed. These can work for either the audio or CV, as the mixer is DC-coupled. Four of the Erica Drums are next, plus another mixer to combine these as well as have a free 2 -> 1 mixer as needed. Then the filters: a more conventional Doepfer state-variable, and a Happy Nerding state-variable that offers some rather different filter curves.
This is how I'd proceed, given the elements you said you wanted to leave in the original build plus the sort of usage you mentioned. Note also that the Moogs are not in here; they really do belong in their own cases as they take up quite a bit of valuable Eurorack space and, also, they don't exactly conform to all of the Eurorack 'standards' when it comes to CVs and such. Also, with the Pexp-1, you can lock them via a MIDI clock from the Pam's and not worry about taking up any of your gate/trig outputs. All in all, not a bad setup...
[FYI: the ModularGrid picture-mangling software seems to be working optimally once more, and I had to engage in a bit of a struggle to get (I hope) the right image up. If you see two VCF modules in the upper-right corner, then you're looking at the actual final version.]
Wow! Thank you for taking the time and effort to put that together for me. Not a build that’s going to happen over night though, Pamela and the Mixology have got to be next in my mind but where would you focus your attention next?
Start next with the top row's modules. These are your audio sources and modifiers, so getting those in place and then building up the modulators (row 2) and the rest of the sequencing can go along at a somewhat slower pace. But having your sources assembled should give you a good idea as to what proceeding along these lines will do.
