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No, you're right, it's stupid. Anybody who's been on the internet at all for more than five minutes knows exactly how some people feel about Behringer, and why. (I'm not saying I agree or disagree, nor am I getting into the specifics of that why here, that's been re-hashed over and over in every Behringer thread EVER.) Uli lives in these mothers' heads rent free, and they in turn make the rest of us miserable with their griping and crying and often, with their insulting undertones insinuating that if you buy a Behringer product, you are somehow a lesser person and worthless as an artist. Somewhere along the way, they managed to occlude the cognitive dissonance of bashing Behringer while spending the bulk of their meager existences consuming Chinese garbage cloned from existing products and manufactured under dubious conditions by companies who are no better.

The end result is, if one looks for information about a module and Behringer's name happens to be stamped upon the faceplate, you will have to wade through countless repetitive, counterproductive, idiotic comments from the aforementioned losers in order to find any actual relevent information - all this despite the pinned "Forum Rules" insisting that we be nice, stay on topic and avoid socio-political BS.

-m

Poor argumentation.

Let's take an unoffical poll: how many of us saw what ever module B had released and immediately upon seeing it thought, "Hang on?! That looks like...", then wondered here to have a closer look and get confirmation?

Of course there are very few new concepts, mostly just merging differnt combos of current building blocks, with specific UX/UI. But the fact that they haven't even tried to do anything different, layout, labels...It feels at the least provocative, if not an outright middle finger.

Power consumption (from the user manual) is +12V: 120mA and -12V: 120mA.

There is more to the Behringer situation than just ethics. Quality is a factor too. My first exposure to Behringer was a little more than 20 years ago. At the time I was not into modular but I was into Hi-Fi. I purchased a fancy Behringer digital equalizer (19" rack mount) and straight out of the box it had an extremely annoying echo that would randomly come and go on the right channel, and the audio quality was not very good either. This EQ was supposed to use its included microphone to measure the room's response and adjust the EQ parameters accordingly--this did not work. As part of my troubleshooting process I tested the microphone by itself and found its response to be all over the place. I was able to operate the EQ manually but no matter what I did the sound quality problem and the right-channel echo persisted. Behringer's tech support was useless, luckily the dealer I bought it from was willing to take it back and give me a refund. The unit was cheaply built given the price and their customer service was essentially non-existant.
The next time I heard about Behringer was on a youtube channel focusing on vintage electronics. Things like 1950'-1980's computers, teletypes, electromechanical calculators, vintage electronic test equipment, early space communications gear, were the usual features on the channel. Then one day a modern Behringer UB1202 module shows up instead of the expected vintage NASA stuff. I didn't know what Eurorack was at the time, but I do rembember the engineer complaining as he replaced every capacitor in the module because they were bottom-of-the-barrel junk which had all failed.

On the ethics side of things, I feel their copying of other designs is reprehensible, but at the same time I think that kind of thing is tricky to talk about. I would much rather buy from innovators rather than soulless corporations mass-producing inferior copies of someone else's idea but the harsh reality is that we all have to do that kind of thing from time to time. I'd bet that many of those who would criticize others for purchasing Behringer modules out of financial necessity own plenty of products which were copied from other designs without credit, they're just things they don't notice or care about. Do you own a socket set? If it wasn't made by Snap-On, it's a knockoff....but I certainly can't fault the average person for buying a cheaper one. How many of us have Ikea furniture instead of buying handmade from small designers?

In addition to Jim's advice, I'd invest in a way to integrate with VCV, as there's a ton to discover when it comes to generative and VCV willgive you all the scopes and modules you'll ever need to figure out what modules to buy. I'd also de-prioritize trying to make everything fit neatly into a case because you don't know where you'll end up - none of us do!

I don't understand all the screaming and bashing of Behringer products.

then you haven't been buying music tech for a long time and/or haven't done a minimum level of due diligence

there's a big thread on modwiggler re the ethics of the company... I suggest you read at least some of it! it's not a new thing - they've been doing it since they started, at least 20 years ago and not just with synthesizers... cheap and shoddy knock offs of whatever music tech they think they can sell... and not treating customers or competitors or critics with any respect whatsoever...

let me correct this for you:

If you want to combine quality with design, buy Intellijel or Doepfer or others, if you want to buy inexpensively, buy

Doepfer or Ladik

Doepfer Quad-VCA is only slightly more expensive...

indeed - on a per vca price - so are veils clones or the intellijel for that matter - we're not talking about cwejman clones!

So people, make music or noise, but let each buyer make their own decision!
-- ricochet-75

but let's make sure that it's an informed decision and not based purely on price:

do you want to buy from (corporate) arseholes who only poorly copy other peoples designs or do you want to spend a few extra quid and give your money to small companies that actually design things (ok so those designs may be based on other things - but at least they put some effort in and may actually innovate from time to time)

Bought an Instruo 2F from @alphonso_steverink and it works fine. Trustworthy seller.

The G. VCF output will be great for drum percussion and adding to existing noise also for the granularity. It’s a keeper. I like how I can set and cv the division of the grains and cv the structure.

I don't understand all the screaming and bashing of Behringer products.
If you want to combine quality with design, buy Intellijel or Doepfer or others, if you want to buy inexpensively, buy Behringer...
Doepfer Quad-VCA is only slightly more expensive...
So people, make music or noise, but let each buyer make their own decision!

@wishbonebrewery, first of all, you have one of the best job in the world!
I understand what you are trying to say, and appreciate it. I'll always try to act as zen as I can.
Hi @ferranadsr
yeah, writing on a forum is a voluntary action, from both perspectives.
A guy write some random unfair nonsense about a specific brand (Klavis) due to his error, as Sythic let him noted.
Even after a kindly and constructive response from me and other users, not even a "thank you guys, it was an error of mine, now I have better understanding of things, and I can move on making music" from the OP. He instead send PM saying this place is toxic, calling gaslighters, ecc... then he leaves Modular Grid... pretty childish eh?
Sounds also pretty arrogant to me and I'm tired of folks like this who think they know everything.. so I posted the meme (in my opinion a funny one) maybe it will be usefull to someone who will likes to bash manufacturer in the future without thinking for a second.
In the meme I'm not giving a F*"! off to anyone, nor using any disqualification, insults or name-calling, I'm sorry if you see this things. I see more of - to give the right dimension to the problem. Personally I found the meme funny and non offensive, but we all have a different opinion, it's clear that this meme disturbs you/other users and I removed it.
What disturb me, however are people making false statement, I really like Klavis modules and I want them to be in the eurorack game for a long time, not out of business buried by lies spreaded out by arrogant people. Spreading false myths or insinuation apt to cause harm to a brand is pure defamation, OP even says Mutable Instruments was low quality and had bad support...??? Cooome ooon, how can you say things like that? you shoot on your feet, there's a limit to anything. It's a niche market, companies close, there's chip shortage in the world and personally I feel we don't need any false claim like this, especially under the link of a brand's module in a modular synth forum.
cheers and good music to all!

EDITED Dec 28th 2023, 05:23

no it's a similar concept
-- ivager

Whatever, anyone eating Whimsical Raps' lunch is fine by me! I await more information.

hi,
I think that this forum, like the rest of the forums, is completely voluntary, so, it is not necessary to answer a post, not even for allusions.
I believe that, once you have given your opinion, answered the questions asked, or advised in good faith, there is no need to engage in disqualifications, insults or discussions that lead to nothing, I think the best thing is to ignore. Although internally you give him a F*@&- off. It is my opinion.

Yep @amenbreak I appreciate where you are coming from.

'We' the people of the internet behind our sometime faceless usernames never know who we are dealing with or what people are like.

A little story from us in the brewing world:
There is this guy all British breweries know, lets call him Terry for annonymity, well Terry collects beer memorabilia and Terry comes across as manic, demanding and persistent to the point where you are given no option but to be rude to Terry and tell him to F-off.
After our first encounter of Terry we learned from another brewer that Terry was actually autistic and really doesn't mean any to frustraite brewers.
It can be hard to be polite when you get contacted in all possible ways within the space of 10-20mins, then he'll chase those messages up, txt msg, phone call, email, facebook, twitter etc etc All in a very blunt or matter-of-fact manner.

Now we know better and do our level best to treat Terry with the kindness and respect he deserves, when we have new stuff we now shoot Terry a txt msg and let him know so he can send us a Stamped Addressed Envelop. And he's very thankful in response.

So the moral is, we don't know people, we don't understand their circumstances and we all need to learn to think twice. And yeah, I know this is actually really hard sometimes as all the above proves and for us in the brewery we learned from our mistakes.

Cheers

Are you happy with the module for your musical needs - has it been fun exploring what you can get from it?

-- EuroBadger

I can't claim no, as I have versions 3 & 4! Only IR4 is installed atm in my larger rack, while I'm learning new modules
in a smaller rack, so I haven't puttered with it lately. In addition to modular, I have guitar pedals, and the IR4 paired well
with an Electro-Harmonix Ravish Sitar: I used a Boredbrain UniFX module to send CV out to the guitar pedal and back
into the rack, and as parallel sounds, the two complement each other in an exotic, Eastern music way. Error Instuments
makes fun and very unique modules!

EDITED Dec 27th 2023, 13:12

Just for perspective, I calculated that 31% of modules I bought brand new arrived broken (I probably bought like 50 new ones since I started). Given that at least half of those times, it was capacitors broken off the pcb's, I suspect most of those were due to the terrible courier services we have to deal with in Belgium being careless with the packages.
I know I'm "bonkers levels of unlucky" but as a very unlucky person, I’m kind of used to this and the stellar support made up for it, 100% of those issues were fixed super fast by the manufacturers.

if you are thinking of expanding I'd say you can't go wrong with a Marbles or a clone of Marbles. Lots of triggers and pitches which you can keep in tune and remember you cam use marbles as a big weird modulation source with all its outputs.
-- wishbonebrewery

Oh yes...my list had Monsoon - Big T Music due to freeze button of up to 8 seconds and looping alongside it working with rings. But on finding the 2hp Loop that can lift 5 minutes of audio that I can mess about with in such a small footprint I went with that. One day maybe the Monsoon will be mine.

I have two IRs, the earlier version didn't last very long, and they sent me a hard fix, but instead I bought version 3 as I didn't want to bother, lol.
-- halbroome

Are you happy with the module for your musical needs - has it been fun exploring what you can get from it?

EDITED Dec 27th 2023, 12:45

EDITED Dec 28th 2023, 05:17

Just a heads up, the black Maths is unobtanium at sane prices. I'd recommend looking at the standard silver panel if you are dead set on Maths.
-- farkas

Or look into a nice, black replacement panel.
-- ambientvalent

Maths with a black panel is 100% the same all-but-rare module everybody has ever owned... IMO these prices are ridiculously laughable. Buy Maths used, some utilities (attenuvert/offset) and a good mixer for this case. Thank me later ;-)

Good transaction with @RauldeOrte , recommended seller !

demo coming soon

Waiting for a video on this one. Have really enjoyed the Pkhi. Very good build quality and interesting feature set.

no it's a similar concept
-- ivager

Any known release date yet? Would be very keen to hear a demo of this one!

Hi @Amenbreak, I'm not a fan of name calling of anyone, would you be so polite as to delete that meme please?

No matter the level of frustraition in attempting to fully understand a person's modular issues I feel that stooping to name calling is at best way off topic and at worst is hurtful, mean and school-yard childish.

Yes, I realise the OP has left the forum, but that shouldn't matter. We are all here to discus modular Synths and we can dissagree with each other without this.

Thanks

Just a heads up, the black Maths is unobtanium at sane prices. I'd recommend looking at the standard silver panel if you are dead set on Maths.
-- farkas

Or look into a nice, black replacement panel.

no it's a similar concept

Just a heads up, the black Maths is unobtanium at sane prices. I'd recommend looking at the standard silver panel if you are dead set on Maths.

I like the modules you choosed.
I think its a good starting point but more stuff will surely follow
PPl will say: "Get a bigger case"

Agreed that it's an interesting collection of modules to start with. Also, let me be the first person to live up to MCGM's prediction: you'll probably end up wanting a bigger case, sooner than later (no disrespect to the intellijel 4u intended). Building a small focused rack is certainly doable, but it comes with sacrifices and really requires you to know how to get the best functional bang for your buck hp wise. Again, totally doable, and you can build an amazing instrument in your selected case, but as a beginner the restricted hp makes things more difficult. Plus, despite what everyone tells themselves, eventually GAS will strike and you'll want to try something new that won't fit. Personally, I'm fond of the mantis cases, but there are plenty of others out there to consider.

More utillity modules like attenuverters, matrix mixer, offsets, vcas etc
You could add a dedicated filter even if the Ghost has one integrated
Vcas

-- MCGM

Agreed with all of @MCGM's comment, but really want to highlight this part. You'll get a whole lot more out of the modules you've already selected if you invest in utility modules like the ones listed, especially vcas. Let me also recommend LFOs. Something like the Ochd and it's really useful expander is great for slow organic changes.

As a side note, how were you planning to use the quantizer, was that for the Steppy? Quantizers are cool, but unless you have a specific use in mind, maybe not the best fit for the collection of modules you already have listed (the Pams can do some quantization, for example).

Anyhoo, good luck!

Edited because I made a typo.

EDITED Dec 27th 2023, 15:34

If this is a direct ripoff of Three Sisters I love it and I want it!

I haven't done it yet, but I bet an Indian Resonator 4 through a Nautilus would be interesting! I have two IRs, the earlier version didn't last very long, and they sent me a hard fix, but instead I bought version 3 as I didn't want to bother, lol.

You know best in what directiion you wnt to take your Rack, if you are thinking of expanding I'd say you can't go wrong with a Marbles or a clone of Marbles. Lots of triggers and pitches which you can keep in tune and remember you cam use marbles as a big weird modulation source with all its outputs.

I enjoy my Indian Reasonator v4, you can make entire patches with it or use it for subtle ambient backgrounds.

It could be thought of as a one-trick-pony but it all depends what you do with it, I'd personally fill your rack with other things first and wait for your next Case or bigger rack before getting the IRv4
-- wishbonebrewery

Thanks for the detailed reply, I feel I will probably get it sooner or later due to its ambient uses as you mentioned. Yes I will need a bigger case at some point ( Rackbrute 6U is on wishlist, this is the one I am most fond of so far) - although not as huge as the set up I see you have!

What would you add rather than the IRv4? in addition to the Big T music Veils.

Many thanks

I enjoy my Indian Reasonator v4, you can make entire patches with it or use it for subtle ambient backgrounds.
I'd say the Trigger in and drum out aren't really needed. Probably a module suited to a specifically 'weird' or bigger case but I can imagne you'd have lots fun with it and the 2hp loop and you could put it through Rings as the reasonator its meant to be for some processing.
I've combined the output from the Indian reasonator with sine waves and put that through a wave folder, lots of ways to treat the output in inthersting ways.
If you are able to dial in your modulation carefully you can make it fairly repeatable too if needed but it can take a bit of faffing about. but yeah, stick it through Clouds, Mimeophon, a big Shimmer Reverb from your FX Aid etc, all lots of fun in my opinion.

It could be thought of as a one-trick-pony but it all depends what you do with it, I'd personally fill your rack with other things first and wait for your next Case or bigger rack before getting the IRv4

Nice chillout :)

I like the modules you choosed.
I think its a good starting point but more stuff will surely follow
PPl will say: "Get a bigger case"

Maestro is cool for (rhyrmic) modulation
Maths is cool, but I if its your only utillity it is to less
If you integate the minifreak you might spare the ensemble osc out
BIA for almost everything is nice

You would need a midi cv interface, if you want to control or sequence the minifreak or other synths with eurorack.
More utillity modules like attenuverters, matrix mixer, offsets, vcas etc
You could add a dedicated filter even if the Ghost has one integrated
Vcas

you need the exra intellijel output module for the intellijel case to get sound out of it.
Or a other output module for modular to line level output - or a VCA

Hi all, Just wanted to hear your views on this unit https://www.modulargrid.net/e/error-instruments-indian-resonator-v4 - was it enjoyable / limiting in any way. Yes I would love to own one of these but as you can see from my set up there are oscilators everywhere or the potential.

I have a 84hp set up with 18hp remaining and am currently looking at Big T Music Veils - as I don't have a vca plus the resonator.

So is this a good move - for my ambient generative journeys?

Thanks in advance

(Oh, my 2hp Loop I got for Christmas is an amazing piece of kit)

EDITED Dec 26th 2023, 16:05

Hey there,

I'm ready to buy my first Eurorack setup so I've been researching various modules and, as you may know, the selection available is impressively vast. I'd appreciate your guidance in making some decisions.

My aim for my initial Eurorack setup is to delve into repetitive yet evolving rhythmic patterns, enriched with melodic bass lines.

I own a Minifreak synth at home, which I adore. Its modulation matrix sparked my interest in the Eurorack universe. I'm eager to integrate my Minifreak with a Eurorack to enhance my compositions.

My module plan:

In terms of housing, I'm aiming for Intellijel Designs Palette 104 4U: https://www.thomann.de/intl/intellijel_designs_palette_104_4u.htm

Here are my questions:

• To begin with, do I need any extra modules just to produce sound and start experimenting?
• Are there any utility modules I might be overlooking?
• Do you have any suggestions for swapping out or adding more modules?

Thank you for your help!

EDITED Dec 26th 2023, 10:51

hi, just leaving this over here for you to check out.

Listening on YT now, this flows really nicely.

Much appreciated, thx! I just keep going, ok? 😊

EDITED Dec 28th 2023, 05:15

Merry Christmas all! My recent productivity continues unabated…

Here we have a pretty moody, low key, long-form ambient track with slow-mo, morphing, twisting, trippy visuals created in Artmatic Designer. The music was made with VST synths from Arturia's V Collection and recorded in Presonus StudioOne. On this track I used Pigments 4 for both the main track and for a percussion track, the OB-Xa for the mid-range arpeggio, and Augmented Voices for the high range arpeggio. The shaker track comes from EZ Drummer 2. I used the brilliant built in sequencer in Pigments, tweaked all kinds of ways, for the main track and the percussion.

I think the moodiness in this comes from using the Locrian mode. The Arturia VST synths do sound amazing to my ears. Really fun to explore the collection. I also tried Davinci Resolve for the first time after seeing it recommended here a bunch of times. OMG it’s so much better than iMovie. Won’t be using that POS again. :-) Cheers!

https://m.

well i guess my next module will be a Klavis. ;) thanks yall for actually being kind and welcoming here. Its made my experience learning modular a joy.

given the amount of time I do spend on this and the other things I also have to do on xmas eve - no...

-- JimHowell1970

i would never ask for that time, again thanks for time and efforts you all, much appreciated, I don't want to bother you longer


happy xmas

-- Dan_ogq

actually I did just google "edge threshold synth module" - if you'd used "edges" plural & not "edge" I'd have worked out it was a mutable clone - as I would if you'd posted your rack when asked....

happy xmas

given the amount of time I do spend on this and the other things I also have to do on xmas eve - no...

-- JimHowell1970

i would never ask for that time, again thanks for time and efforts you all, much appreciated, I don't want to bother you longer

happy xmas

EDITED Dec 25th 2023, 11:43

There is a nice illustration by Norman Rockwell on this subject.
Merry Christmas (Xmas) to everyone!

So, this is how certain brands get harmed, myths are being spread about malfunctional modules. Mostly these problems seem to be due to user error.

Ranting on a forum is easy, getting personal after receiving some questions and leaving after is... questionable to say the least.

Calling out false claims is harmful to manufacturers when the person posting them isn't able to fully explain the problem or even worse: is causing the module to fail because of lack of knowledge and/or understanding.

Seriously, wouldn't have been easier to answer the question on the first post? straight and easy.

-- Dan_ogq

It wasn't a straight and easy question, maybe this makes me the stupid one... I usually am!

For me at least your question was too abstract, as I said before, and without seeing what modules you are working with it made it a really hard question to comment on. Like guessing what joke will fall out of your Christmas Cracker before you pull it.

honestly? i am not sharing my rack because i don't want to waste time discussing every single choice I have made so far.

PS no idea what you mean by "edge/threshold" - unless you mean a comapator or envelope follower!

-- JimHowell1970

you didn't even have the time to check on google what an edge/threshold module is, i can imagine how deeply a whole rack would be analysed.

given the amount of time I do spend on this and the other things I also have to do on xmas eve - no...

and you're wrong and obviously didn't understand or chose to ignore the rest of the post - as I said it's not about the individual modules it' sabout the balance... I really don't care what modules you have or don't have - but I do see that given that we've continually said post your rack - you don't take advice well - not our problem - it's yours!

my honest advice - get another row and fill it with a variety of simple utilities... and that's all I can really do without seeing your rack

happy xmas