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Mind you, it uses that now...but if you wind the clock back to the inception of industrial, West Coast devices didn't enter into the game at all. Throbbing Gristle, for example, was one of the first 'major' artists to make major and consistent use of a Roland System 700, which is very Moog-like in its architecture. Daniel Miller started off with an early Korg monosynth. Cabaret Voltaire were very much into Roland and Yamaha stuff, along with Chris Watson's prominent use of a Vox Super Continental.

The first West Coast industrial user I can recall off the top of my head was Naut Humon, of both Rhythm & Noise and Tipsy (much later), who had some direct connections with SMS and Serge back in the late 1970s/early 1980s. And he, naturally, was on the West Coast, based in SF. It wasn't until considerably later, after the modular 'purge' starting in the mid-1980s up into the early 1990s, that you saw a lot of Buchla and Serge use by users outside of either academia or the segment of the pop industry that had bushels of cash necessary to spend on such things. But it was also that 'purge' that allowed that to happen, as prices on these things plummeted; I still kick myself over letting an 11-panel Serge 'blue panel' system plus modular video synth get away from me back in the early 1990s because I didn't have $3500 to drop on it. Of course, these days, you may as well add an extra zero to that figure along with a lot of other upward math.

I like this from square one. Possibly one of the more ominous-looking modules; would make a good control button for some Bond villain's death-ray. Don't even both translating the panel; the Cyrillic just makes it scarier. The ony question I have is: when and how much?

Yeah, that works! It's got a real loopy, goofy feel sort of like mu-Ziq's stuff circa 'In Pine Effect'. Love the nasty sound qualities, too...very Rephlex-ish. That's one you oughta shop around...

FYI, I initially misread the thread header as 'Disasterous peace and Wasps'. I actually think that's a better title.

EDITED Apr 24th 2018, 01:59

The Bastl stuff seems to be better at processing/altering external signals than at their own signal generation. As for Dupont pins to 3.5mm, it's safe to the gear (as long as you have an established ground between the pinpatchable and the Eurorack gear, as well as between all pinpatchables), but perhaps not to your mind. The other Folktek stuff makes for an exceptional way to transit between formats, also, plus the Mescaline also has some adaptive patchpoints onboard.

As for a complete pinpatch rack, see http://tangiblewaves.weebly.com/ and hold on tightly to your credit cards. That's a work in progress, also; Robert is continuously developing new modules for the system, which also includes pin-to-3.5mm modules. These work 1:1 with Bastl as well.

Hm...came up with the same screenshot as before. Try this: paste the URL of the page you actually build the rack on into the next post. That should bring the image up in the post...but before doing this, do a refresh of that page and call up the screenshot and refresh it as well so that it matches the rack's work-page.

I've dropped sums like that before...but when I have, it was always preceded by extensive research, sometimes as much as years worth. Even back when choosing gear was simpler due to there being less to choose from, I would still expend a lot of care on checking and crosschecking as much info as possible before money ever entered into the equation. There's a saying: 'informed customers are better customers'...and this is true, because when you're dead-certain about where you want to go and how to get there, the expenditure process becomes effortless because all of the 'hard part' has been done already.

Right...it's what I call 'adaptive multitracking': assembling sources as discrete track sources, but not in a fixed linear form such as on a 2" reel. DAWs, especially ones like Ableton that blur the line between DAW and instrument, can be made to work like old-school multitracking, but you miss the whole point of having the temporal pliability that something like DAWs afford.

I still know how to cut to 2" (or any multitrack tape, really), and can even cut up 2" with a splicing block and tape (terrifying to do, actually...so much can go wrong), but I won't voluntarily go back to that working method. It's like apples and oranges when compared to working in digital.

The Cirklon, honestly, does nothing for me. At that price point, you're then getting into the range where you may as well be using a laptop + a decent MIDI-CV setup like an ES FH-1 + expanders. Sequencers have very real purposes, but that device starts to get beyond the real point behind them, and I think the better solution at that point is software-based.

Synth wall, eh? 50k budget or so, hm? Ooooooooookay...this build uses four Doepfer 9U Monster Cases and two Doepfer Monster Case Bases.

Now, the first thing you'll notice immediately is a lot of repetition in the modules. This is very deliberate. When you're building on THIS scale, what you want is to pick what would make sense in, say, a Pittsburgh EP-420, and then repeat this over and over so that you can generate a very massive, complex sound, but at the same time you don't wind up getting utterly lost on the patch panel. You know what all the devices are, and their location is all grouped so that each set of modules functions as a singular unit. This is why you also see a lot of 2hp Mixers interspersed throughout the VCOs and LFOs. Each brace of four devices can be easily summed-down into a much more complex signal. And where there are four devices in a module, these modules get their own mixer, allowing for extremely complex admixtures of waveforms. In other places, multiple modules exist to service other sets of multiple modules, such as you see on rows 3-5, right cabs.

So, the top two rows are 'voicing'. There are a total of forty-eight oscillators, although in the case of the VCOs in the Sputnik Duals, one of each will be used as an audio modulation source by default due to that module's architecture. Each oscillator section also has its own summing mixer. The top row (which also contains the buffered mults and passives for CV distro) is summed at a Quad VCA, so each submix group has VCA dynamic control. Row two, left cabs sums with an mixer that can split into either 8-1 or 4-2, with inversion possibilities. This section also contains four slew limiters, located near the CV mult/distro section above. Row two, right cabs is waveshaping: three ring mods, a subharmonic generator, harmonic multiplier, two Elby triple waveshapers, two Tiptop Folds, a Doepfer A-137-2 waveform animator, and four active Moog CP3 clones, which then sum down further via another Quad VCA.

The functions on row three are split. Left cabs is the LFO section, right is a SISM, two A-143-1s which can function as AD envelopes or as complex function generators. Two more sets of quad FGs are to the right of those, feeding a pair of quad LPGs. The Pan/Mix on the end allows summing of or crossfading between the main mix outputs of the quad LPGs if needed.

Rows four and five, left cabs are all complex modulation sources, with more SISMs, 16 linear VCAs (summable) and more 8-1/4-2 mixers as seen above for complex modulation source mixing. At the end of this section are four VC Polarizers for inversion/modulation of summed modulation signals.

Rows four and five, right cabs contain the complex envelopes (four Stages, four Quad ADSRs) and SISMs for envelope mixing. Then the filters take up the rest of this section. Each filter subrow is duplicated, but filters can be broken out of this and/or interconnected as needed. A pair of formant filters is in place for the Doepfer A-106-1 resonance inserts, although it's possible to also use the EMW Multi Bandpasses for this as well. Note that the primary filters in this build are filter pairs, which can allow for further breakout of filtering functions as well as complex interpatching for elaborate timbral behavior.

Row six is where the architecture of the build starts changing. The first few modules are random sources; the HN EQ by the Sputnik random source is for VC noise coloration, so that the noise distribution can be modulated and changed for the WCRS's use. Four Shiftys are after this for arpeggiation of the WCRS's sample and hold or, just as easily, arpeggiation across any sampled source. Up to sixteen discrete stages of analog shift registers are available if all four Shiftys are patched in series. Four window comparators follow for complex gate/trigger extraction from modulation curves. After this, an ARC Artificial Neural Network handles complex logic functions over gate/trigger behavior for timing complication. The Bytom is a gate/trigger integrator. This is followed by more gate/trigger extraction modules, then CV manipulators (two Ladik minimum/maximums and two EMW manual CV folders). At the end of this section, four linear VCAs are in place, along with a CV adder and a triple DC offset source.

On the right cabs side of row six are, first, more CV processing (SISM, Quad VCA, and a Doepfer Morph Controller), but then the rest of the row is taken up with what could be termed 'master' filters for overall timbral processing. The last of these is a Frap Fumana, which allows complex vocoder processing of synth audio; a Thonk version of a Doepfer A-119 (not in production just yet) is next to the Fumana for inputting external audio as well as envelope following and gate extraction from signal dynamics.

Row seven is the angled row in the Monster Case Bases. On the left is the MIDI interface, an Expert Sleepers FH-1 plus two expanders for a total of 24 CV/gate outputs from this. This was chosen so that any USB-capable MIDI controller can be plugged directly into the system, but it is also possible to use an external MIDI box to send computer-sequenced MIDI into the system. The next several modules are all for the purpose of generating time modulation in various ways. Three different sequential switches are next, all of slightly different types and usages. Quantizing and similar functions are after this, with two o&C builds plus an Instruo Sinfonion for polyphonic quantizing and harmony generation. Naturally, all of these devices are intended to work either separately or in tandem functions.

The right cabs side of row seven is audio processing: dynamics, frequency-shifting, delays, a Doepfer A-101-3 modular phaser, a Juno-106 chorus clone and an Elby digital reverb, with these last two being mono-to-stereo capable. A Rainmaker delay and Jomox T-Rackonzier close this out with complex effect processing, and the output module is at the far right, keeping the external cable draping similar to that found on the left side.

Row eight is the MCBs' 'flat' row. A complex master clock is here, which can also take clocking from the FH-1 or can also be CV controlled for time modulation. Then sequencers: one traditional 'row' type, and two multichannel Eloquencers. Right side has controllers first: ribbon controller interface, three assignable CV fader controls, two joysticks. The ultimate 'controller', however, occupies the rest of the row; this is a full ADDAC VC mixer system, with three AUX busses, CV control over dynamics and panning as well as numerous other functions.

This system, as I noted, is intended for use with an external controller, with either CV/gate or USB being acceptable input methods for control signals. Controller should optimally be placed in proximity to the mixer and ancillary control modules.

Current needed for the whole system is 12051 mA on +12, 8066 mA on -12, and 181 mA on 5V, which should be within the distributed supply capacities of all six cabs with Doepfer PSU-3 supplies. Total module expenditure estimate by MG is $47,655.00.

That was fun...

Right...and remember, the real use of a piece of equipment is what YOU get out of it. There's a few things in my studio that people puzzle over and wonder why I have them alongside some seemingly-more-capable gear. But these also have their uses; my CZ-101 is far more capable than its toy-like appearance suggests. The Kawai K1ii normally sucks...unless you have Kawai's MM16 MIDI mixer/faderbox, which I do and which allows me to get at the K1ii's insides very easily and in real-time. And the Yamaha VSS-30...well, technically, it's a toy. An evil toy, as its crap-fi sampler has all sorts of sound-modification tricks for gritty, screwed-up noisemaking possibilities, particularly after running it through both sides of my dual ProCo RAT rack.

Most 'pro users' would scoff at these things (except maybe the CZ-101...some people do 'get' that synth). But it's a case of putting the 'wrong' gear in the 'right' hands. It reminds me a lot of the Discordian principle of the 'Law of Fives', which states: "Anything can ultimately be related to the number 5, given the ingenuity of the person doing the relating". Same principle applies here; it's just straight-up thinking outside the box at work.

Also takes a degree of fearlessness. Going out on stage, surrounded with high-end synths, but twiddling around with a Nintendo DS that just happens to be making surreal layers of sound...yes, that looks very odd. But the results bear out the oddness.

EDITED Apr 23rd 2018, 03:03

I had a better idea, I think. Since the purpose of this skiff is to integrate it within your DAW's environment, I figured why not take that all the way? Hence:

Certain things may seem to be missing. Trust me, they're not. The idea here is to put part of the skiff in the computer, which also simplifies your patch recall issues.

The key to this is the three Expert Sleepers modules. On the left is an ES-8 DC-coupled USB audio interface and an expander for it. The right end has a ES-4 CV-ADAT interface, which is basically a six-channel DC-coupled Lightpipe audio input. These all work together with Logic and a piece of software called 'Silent Way', although you could also use MOTU's Volta and a few other. The idea is this: the ES-8 and its expander can output both CVs and audio, which can go through the skiff's modules for control and audio processing purposes. There's 16 channels for all of this, plus the ES-8 also has four inputs. Signal flow goes through the skiff's various possible signal paths, down to the ES-4, where audio can be converted to ADAT format, sent back to the ES-8's Lightpipe input and potentially added to the ES-8's four inputs, and the whole mess connects to the computer for all of this I/O work through a single USB cable.

In between: six envelopes (4 AR, 2 ADSR with normal and inverted outs), five VCOs (the four Klavis VCOs also have internal quantizing), wavefolder, ring modulator, Quad VCA for summing VCOs and so forth. Then a formant-based Mannequins Sisters VCF (which has two input possibilities). This feeds two Lxd lowpass gates, which are 'rung' by a Doepfer Quad Decay. Your Lxd outs go directly into the ES-4 from there, and back to the DAW.

It's an odd implementation, and while it seems to lack sequencing, LFOs, and a lot of other things...well, that's what the ES-8 and the CV control software (Silent Way or some other) are for. That way, you can have loads of modulation sources, control voltages, etc in the DAW itself (and therefore easily stored and recalled) while your audio signal path remains analog and very tweakable in between the Expert Sleepers devices. In short, very tight DAW integration, and partial patch storage to boot!

I suggest taking a very careful look at Expert Sleepers' website (http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk) to get a better feel for how this should work. But the concept is quite solid.

I actually think the use of the Little Nerd in v.2 of the rack makes more sense. It has a lot of the Pamelas' capabilities, plus a few extra tricks, but occupies less space and it's more cost-effective. If this version of the rack is the direction to go in, the only change I'd think might be in order is to remove the Moddemix (the Wogglebug has a ring-mod mode, and the Erica mixer takes care of summing), then drop in a 4 hp multi-drum module that does more conventional rhythmic station-keeping while using the NE Pilobolus Vomitorium Excelsior as the source for screwy percussives to contrast with the more normal ones. In that 4 hp range, janost has a number of short-run clones of 4-8 voices of classic stuff, like 606 and 808 modules, an Oberheim DMX-based module, and a few other bits of trickery. Plus, by going with a 4 hp drum module of that type, you have 2 hp left...which is perfect for dropping in a 2hp dual VCA module, which you really need. VCAs are sorely lacking in this build, but that may well solve the issue and give you a final version of the skiff.

Brilliant design, this...concept is very sound, you have a really clear idea of how this should work for your purposes. Pretty cool, pretty neat.

About the only things that nag at me are:

1) The Cwejman VCF. Spendy and large. You might want to do a bit more looking around to reduce the size and certainly the cost. There's a lot of interestingly fubar filter concepts and topologies out right now, so it's sort of a smorgasbrod, but yeah, this could be a bit better.

2) Putting the Mescaline in the rack with everything else. I kinda like this instrument as the unitized control-surface/generator/mangler it is in of itself, both in functional terms and looks. Plus, there's the possibility of more space to play with in the cab...and at the very least, you'll want to add some other Folktek stuff to tandem with the Mescaline as well as to augment it, plus go from Dupont pins to 3.5mms. My instinct would be to put the reassembled Mescaline to the right of the cab, then run your other Folktek stuff in the right end of the cab on rows 2 and 3 to get some easy patching and interchange between everything pin-patchable. That sort of exchange might also come in handy for adding one or two other pin-patchables, such as Bastl's Softpop or bitRanger.

Otherwise...yeah. This is damn solid.

The problem I see here is that this is all happening in a pretty small space. The Phonogene swap: good. The Jomox addition: also good. But then, there's the issue of how to cram in enough percussives into the remaining space. One thing I would do is to yank the mult as well, and rely on inline mults and/or stackable cables to split outputs. That gets 4 hp back, but the result still only leaves 14 hp for this, and the Pamela's can deal with eight trigger-ins. True, a few of these can go to the 0-Coast and Pitt, but you still need something percussive and, presumably, glitchy to get things moving.

Instead of just the Noise Eng. Fettucinius Marsala Lorem Ipso, I suggest adding one other nasty percussive in the same realm: a Møffenzeef Dialup. When you see the desc on it, you'll get the point. Fits nice with the NE Colosseum Autostrada Eruptum.

One other thing that is a little itchy for me, also, is the mixer. That little A&H is getting pretty close to being overrun, sounds like. If you get a wild hair to go to a larger mixer, I would suggest also trying to find something without onboard effects. There's a couple of reasons for this: first, those onboards are not very tweakable, so not only are they not too finely-adjustable, you can't play them...your Lyra-8 should explain what I mean there. Second, they're not exactly the best things; they tend to not be the best quality in sonic terms, plus they lack a lot of character, since they're designed to please a wide user base and not merely electronic music types who will also want the processing to be part of the overall creative process. And last, they muck up one or two AUX sends in terms of the mixer being built to use them, instead of being structured to deal with external processors.

Have a look at eBay at some point, and you'll find that there's a lot of very suitable, higher-quality, and bigger mixing desks on the used market right now, while people are jumping the analog ship for digital. This was dumb with synths, as we know, and it's just as dumb with most anything else. Take advantage of this and get some sweet dimes-on-the-dollar action!

OK...so, apparently, we have these posted here now. Not surprising, given that MG is the de facto modular synth database for all intents and purposes these days.

The problem I have, however, is this: is this real, or is this Uli Behringer teasing something in order to get the Internet to do his market feasibility study for him?

I'm not going to mince words here: I have serious misgivings about this entry into Eurorack by, as per Behringer's usual modus operandi, doing a significant intellectual property lift and touting it as 'innovation'. And perhaps, yes, the ability to get these pretty decent looking System 100m clones at $100 a pop is an 'innovation' of sorts. But when, exactly, will we get them? That's the question. Or even moreso, will we get them, or is this just another hype ramp-up, winding up the synth public up while having a larf and going off to build more substandard MI gear and plundering another saged audio firm.

Case in point: the Model D. It's just started shipping...finally...about effing time, actually...after how many years of wind-up? And why was that, actually? After all, cloning a Minimoog shouldn't be all that difficult with a modern-day robotic board production line. Bob did it with actual workers and such, and built over 10k of them, and they're still making th...oh...wait. Yeah. They're still making them. Might be a tiny, wee, itsy-bitsy IP issue there. Ya think?

Fact is, I have memories of the very first major stink Behringer stepped in, waaaaaay back around the early 1990s. Wasn't smart to clone dbx's gear that they still made. Even less intelligent to reproduce the same manuals. But really frickin' stupid to forget to proofread them and delete all of the references to 'dbx' that got left in (and brought up in court).

If they can do this and make it work, and do this with the same component quality and QC that Roland put into these back in the day, OK. But at $100 per complex module (these ain't something basic, folks...ask Malekko, who did the builds on the System 500 modules in cooperation with Roland), I'm just thinking that certain corners might get cut a tad.

Some will likely disagree, but I have a not-too-good feeling about this.

PS: interesting about how Behringer's been hyping the Neutron...but when you look at Sweetwater's website (probably the prime Internet retailer for music gear in the USA), you see zilch about it. Nothing. Not even a preorder or cursory mention or jack-else. And they did do a lot of pre-hype and pre-order for the Model D, but my bet is that they kinda had a bad taste left in their mouths in Ft. Wayne after B. couldn't deliver for nigh-upon two years for...whatever reason. About which I, of course, have my suspicions as noted above. But if Sweetwater felt kinda burned about being made to hold Behringer's water for that long, I don't think they'll bite on the Neutron until Uli can dropship a few pallet-loads of them first. And that, gang, makes them potentially even less jazzed about thirteen new Behringer twiddlys being amped-up by Uli's 'Tribe', especially something more niche-like such as Eurorack modules.

Quite honestly, this has a slight potential of putting Sweetwater off Eurorack; they've only recently gotten a clue about it (I recall having a discussion with a sales engineer about why SW just might want to stock multiples about 18-19 months back; they had no clue about why anyone would want a bunch of jacks with no electronics attached to them), and if Uli causes some sort of debacle with them over Eurorack, there will be ripple-effects. Guarantee it.

So, Uli...if you're reading this, either do this right, or don't do it at all.

EDITED Apr 21st 2018, 04:04

Not enough 'sex appeal', I suppose. It's sort of plain-looking, doesn't jump out at you, isn't festooned with knobs and jacks and lights...none of which, frankly, it needs anyway. And really, I'd rather have a rackful of sleepy-looking stuff that can tear peoples' heads clean off instead of some sort of control-panel acid nightmare/fever dream that looks great but sounds....eh.

EDITED Apr 20th 2018, 19:18

[Attempt #2...god, I love what accidental keystrokes can do in Windows. Feh.]

OK...some things were removed, notably the Audio Interface. It doesn't work like you think it does. It's just an analog stereo out (which you have already) and a stereo in (for which you don't have the space in this to process incoming audio). I also took out the effect insert module; again, it's not going to be that useful, plus I added some effects (notably a Juno 106 chorus clone) to better suit this build.

I shifted things into their respective signal paths, also. The 'monosynth' is up top, 'drum machine' is down so you can easily access the sequencer like a playing surface and get at the knobs for on-the-fly tweaking.

As for the 'monosynth', there's now two VCOs. Running just one often results in a thinner sound, but with two, you can do some slight detuning and generate that big, harmonic-sweeping sound for heavy bass. One can also sync with the other for weird lead timbres, too. I set up the modulation section so that the Disting is in position for multiple usages, and Maths provides control curves for the two VCAs, through which you can feed two different waveforms from the LFO. By doing that, you can cause things like delayed LFOs, LFOs that rise in amplitude over time, etc. Added a pair of AR envelopes for the VCF and its internal VCA...that module is a Moog Rogue VCF/VCA clone of sorts. I went with that because it's going to be a bit dirtier, which will punch the monosynth signal out better.

'Drum machine' is the Circadian Rhythms, then there's a passive mult to allow you to distribute a pair of triggers to other points in the build. Drum modules are an 808 and 909 kick (more BOOOOOM), a Delptronics module + expander which has some 606 and 808 characteristics, 909 clap, 808 maraca, and 909 hats and cymbals.

After that, there's a submix for six of the drum modules. Yes, there's more than six, I know...but certain ones you can run through this stereo submixer, then mash via the MSCL stereo comp/limiter and pound the HELL out of the sound that way, while still sending a couple of other drums, plus the monosynth's VCA output, through the main mixer up top. The 106 Chorus can then either be used as an inline effect for the monosynth or a mono drum voice before mixing that into the other stereo input on the main mixer. The first stereo in, of course, is where you'll want the drum submix (and MSCL, if desired) fed.

Yes, the main mixer is possibly overspecced on inputs. Trust me, you want that. Anyway, just feed the stereo out from it to the Output, take your headphone feed and stereo line-outs from that, and that should do it.

It's a relatively simple build, mainly owing to space constraints. And frankly, before going all the way in on this (especially the drum part), you might want to take mixxalot's advice and look into some more prebuilt gear. I would suggest checking out the Roland TR-8S (the new one, not the original TR-8) for drums; by doing that instead of going with much of what's on the bottom row, you then open up a LOT of options for the modular which, with the Circadian Rhythms, you've kind of got 'locked' into a specific usage at present. Besides, the TR-8S samples, has the 808, 909, 606, and a few other Roland kits standard (no 'plug-outs'...ugh), multiple assignable outs, and works like the 909, more or less. And it's about $650-ish over here. There's a couple of other things that come to mind, too, such as the MS-20 Mini + SQ-1...one of Aphex's longtime mainstays. You might also consider losing the CS-1X...it's sort of 'vanilla', doesn't really rip through a mix very well, which is typical for Yamaha's analog modelers. Pads and such are OK with it...but other things do those as well or better, and more besides.

Right...one key, I've found over many years, to making a synth behave like an instrument is that if specific aspects are grouped by their particular specialty (generator, modifier, controller, processor), then the flow around the instrument becomes clearer and more intuitive. This, in turn, changes up how you approach the instrument; instead of having function 'A' all over here and 'B' down that side or such, mingle everything together as far as playing function, but make it cohesive as far as actual functionality.

Another thing that will help here a lot is fixing the output stage. Right now, there's a couple of manual mono mixers, one of Intellijel's new sorta-stereo ones, and the output isolator itself. I really strongly suggest making the output some sort of stereo performance mixer, something that also allows VCA control over the strip levels at the very least, as well as panning if you can swing it. Shift the mono mixers to use as submixing into the final stereo strips. This way, the mixer becomes something of a playing surface, allowing you to better slot various instrumental signal paths within the cab into a cohesive stereo-out mix.

As for the AJH VCOs...one thing that will click that sound in even tighter is to get some sort of Moog CP3 clone. The CP3 circuit, if cloned properly, is actually not 100% clean; it introduces subtle nonlinearities into the outputted result that actually emphasizes certain euphonic partials. It's not distortion per se...and a bit difficult to describe unless you've ever gotten your hands on a Moog device with that particular mixer circuit (such as a modular, or the Minimoog).

Now that I've got a clearer idea of what's actually going on here, let's see...

[Had this all typed up, and MG logged me out in the time it too to write it up. But I have my own word-processor, so...take THAT, rotten, evil login script! Ha!]

OK...you will notice that there's definitely some things missing from your original build. I did tinker with this a good bit, but I kept your primary functionalities as you'd posted them pretty much intact, even improving on the ergonomics of them. The entire order of this got a lot of reworking, too...but it now has that 'subsystemic' flow that I think you'll find makes it all easier to program and play, especially with the module swaps.

Row 1 has your buffered mult and adder/mult to the far left, with the AJH glide/noise module there so that your can easily impose slewing on CVs as needed. Also, with that positioning, you can easily place the slew limiter into a CV path, then send that back to a mult and distribute it that way, giving you a couple of nice options. The Minimoog VCOs were dropped to three (which is like the real thing) and the CP3 clone from Manhattan was added. This now replicates the VCO-mixer part of the Minimoog signal path...and there's more coming about that, so keep reading.

Digital-type sources are on the right end, then the Mixup was paired with the Quad VCA so that there's a lot of possible mixing/VCA control routing options present, given that the PDO and Shapeshifter have multiple outputs and there may be different ways you'll want that working for different situations. Oh...and a mult. You needed a passive one.

Row 2 starts with modulation sources: one Disting, your o&Cs, Batumi, Maths, Quadra. I then added three Ladik ADSRs with normal and inverted outputs, which eliminated the need for the attenuverters and added three desperately-needed 4-stage EGs. An Intellijel uFold is next for waveshaping/distortion, but with CV control over waveshaping in up to three stages. Then a SE 5089 VCF...and this is the rest of the tale on the Minimoog signal path.

That filter is a pretty effective clone of the 4-pole Moog transistor ladder lowpass VCF. If you feed this directly from the CP3, you then have the actual Minimoog audio signal path, up to the final VCA. Because of this, you get the nonlinearities and euphonic...something...that the Minimoog proper tends to have. Mind you, Minimoogs had a lot of variation to them because of component tolerances and such...but this is now a pretty spot-on redux of that audio path, hence the ability to remove the fourth VCO. The two new components (especially that 5089 VCF) will more than make up for its absence.

Your Polaris is next...and now, you have two excellent VCFs of two 'flavors'. Quad VCA next to mix the VCF outs...or you can just as easily send them through the LxD, which I relocated right beside it. Or both...? At any rate, the Quad VCAs were also set up this way so that you could both use them as exponentials for audio level control or in linear mode for CV levels, and split out your mixing duties but have one or two VCAs left for linear work.

Row 3: the other Disting, placed here to work more with the quantizing modules. Your drum/bass modules come next, then a stereo mixer to sum these down and get a good stereo placement so the Bitbox has a nice stereo image to screw around with. Note that all of this is now directly over the sequencing/control section for easy routing.

Effects processing is next: looping delay and Z-DSP. This closes out that row...but notice, again, the placement: these processors are directly above the mixing/output section, again to make routing easier. Plus it allows for some routing options with ease that we'll get at in a bit.

Row 4 is control. MIDI interface, then the Pamela's, Eloquencer, Varigate and Bow Tie. The idea here is that, with things laid out like this, you can easily send in a sync clock via MIDI or USB, use that as a master, then the next several modules get to tamper with that incoming clock as needed, all in a nice line so that if you want to do some screwy things with that clock, it's easy to do. And as mentioned, the placement of all of these is right below the quants, drum and bass, and Bitbox so that all of your functionality of these things in tandem are right there, simple to route and use as a unitized whole. The Bow Tie was placed down on the end of this so that you can now easily use it either for routing CVs or audio, whatever you feel like. Plus, anything that needs to go to the VCOs can now just flow right up the left side of the cab, keeping those patchcables out of the way. Much cleaner.

The Triple VCA is in place so that you can use it to VCA submix a single strip going into the Toppobrillo Stereomix. That thing there is going to make a huge difference. It allows CV control over audio levels, panning, and AUX sends on four inputs, which also have some routing tricks such as a cue send. This also has a single AUX send (mono) and return (mono or stereo) loop, so it's possible to parallel-process part of the overall mix through quite a few things.

Your MSCL is next, to put it in place to easily dynamic-process the overall stereo mix. But since the new Happy Nerding OUT has two stereo inputs, you can do some parallel processing work with that, or send in a separate signal path, or...well, a lot of things. That aux stereo feed has a pan control to adjust the stereo image, but it's fixed-level. The main input, however, is variable, so you actually get to use that OUT as a final stereo summer, in addition to being stereo balanced outs, a headphone (1/4”) amp, and output-level metering.

So, yes...I yanked several modules out, some of which you'd mentioned but a few of which I felt were not really well-implemented, or could be done better in a smaller space (pulling the Malekko distorter in favor of the uFold, for example). Overall, though, the idea behind what I'd cut was to maximize what you'd described as the 'mission' for the build, and I think that you'll find that this arrangement actually makes it more intuitive for those, as well as suggestive of some other possibilities not really clearly shown in the original layout. But the main split here is to get the 'synthy' bits up top, and the 'controlly' bits down and all together on the lower tiers.

And given what the 'pulls' might bring on the used market, you might be able to do this for close to zero-extra. Or maybe even a little left over...I did come in at $432 less than your figure, after all!

EDITED Apr 20th 2018, 04:34

Your intuition is correct. In fact, I'm not even touching this one; you need to rip at least half (or more!) of the signal sources out, for starters. This isn't a big build, and there's a hodgepodge of ten oscillators of various sorts (that I see on first glance!). Then there's ten channels of CV/gate sequencing, and another FOURTEEN of just trig/gate. But at the same time, just two filters...? If the idea here is to create a 'phat' (which I pronounce 'pee-hat', myself; shows you what I think of the term) sound, there's other/better/cheaper ways to do that. Or if you're trying to do something West Coast and crossmodulate everything...again, other/better/cheaper ways exist.

Step back and take a few breaths. Delete this. Start over, and start smaller. You're trying to toss things that look/sound cool into a box with this and figure that that'll result in a usable instrument, and it just won't. Seriously, go back and study some others' racks (synthesists who know what they're doing, basically) and spend a bunch of time studying classic modular systems that are still classics to this day because they were done right decades ago. See how and why they work. Then start again, but either smaller or with a smaller palette of modules (Eurorack, or also perhaps MU), or both, and then grow toward something like this incrementally. Build it up in subsystems that make sense as groups of modules. Use that grouping to place things in a sensible flow pattern.

Admittedly, this seems like it's easy. And on MG, it is...which may be the sole flaw in Modulargrid. Otherwise, it's a brilliant resource, but you have to use the whole resource to get the real use out of it. It's not Legos with knobs and wires; there's a real point to how and why modular synths come out in the ways they do, both good and bad builds. And the latter can and should (because this is 'expensive shit', to quote Fela Kuti) be avoided.

Couple of things...

You say you have a studio rig. What's in it as far as instruments (ie: synths, drum machines, sequencers, etc) already? This is going to be a major key to what should go into a modular rig and will help determine what sort of focus the build needs to have.

Second: I hope you're not expecting that the equipment is the thing that will make the music work. Truth is, that's on you...not what gear is at your disposal. A modular of any workable size is a hefty expenditure, both in money to outlay for it and time spent in getting how you use it sorted out. You can have a Synthi 100 at your disposal because you had the $50-100k to drop on it...but if the talent needed to make that spendy thing really sing is lacking, that's not a wise purchase.

Last: there are a LOT of machines to 'make techno music with'. Fact is, the people who started all of this (the house guys in Chi, the Belleville 3) were working with crap they could afford from want-ads, used music shops, and pawn shops. That's what shaped how techno sounds to this day. If you don't have experience with electronic music gear on the basic levels, such as with older gear, patchables, etc and thinking starting with a modular is the 'big secret'...guess again. It would be like trying to go through driver's ed in a $500k Ferrari.

Just sayin'...

Hmmm...sometimes I even amaze me...OK, got the additional module expenditure down to $986, a $238 drop. And strangely, in the process I upped a bit of the functionality, although the initial build was a bit better fit, I thought. New version's in the same position in this thread, so have a look...but here's what was changed:

This version changes the extra VCO (Plaits) to a pair of more conventional VCOs, a Ladik and a Noise Reap uBermuda, which is a somewhat weird thing that can go into internal feedback behavior, sort of like sending a VCF into self-resonance. Went to a single VCA/mixer with those also.

Quad LFO was changed to a TAKAAB 3LFO, which offers two waveforms in a staggered timing setup. ADSRs are now Ladiks, both with normal and inverted outputs, plus I was able to squeeze in a dual AD Ladik to give you two more envelopes. I switched out the Ladik dual linear VCA for a Noise Reap pair. Eowave Poles now handles attenuation/CV/inversion, and the Tiptop Fold also offers a suboctave generator, which wasn't there before. Same sort of 4-pole transistor-ladder lowpass VCF, albeit Doepfer's version which loses the dual input mixing...but the Fold has that now, so nothing lost there.

So...yeah. Filled cab, again. Functionality a bit different and, like I said, upped a bit in a few ways. And closer to the $700-ish budget line you quoted.

As to what to get first...hmm, that's a puzzler. I sort of build things as a 'unitized' set of subsystems, which is how I'm used to modular gear working (and, for that matter, a lot of prebuilt stuff). My suggestion would be to just add along as you can, and if you can kick things down a little more with used purchases (there's loads of used modules out there if you look), then cool. Otherwise, the only other way to reliably knock things down further is to go with a bunch of DIY kit modules...which is an option if you're OK with some soldering and assembly, but otherwise, this is not too shabby.

EDITED Apr 19th 2018, 03:53

Easy: start with the ES-8 and the Metropolis. That way, you can lock the Metropolis up to the DAW's sync clock, and the Metropolis is perfectly usable with the SE-02, which will allow you to start learning all of the tricks that sequencer has up its sleeve. I'd then fill out the bottom row as shown (and move the ES-8 into its place up top), allowing you to get used to the trigger sequencer, drum modules, and the performance mixer next. After that, any order that feels right should be just fine.

Yeah...I can see why they sold it. They'd not really built much out of it...added a bunch of sequencers, but not built out the voicing compliment much at all. I did fix it up, but the budget I hit was $1224, which overruns about $500 over your line. But as a result, I was able to turn this into a pretty respectable little rack. Vide:

Now...to make this work (and assuming that I'm right that this was built in a Pittsburgh EP-270), you're going to have to change one thing about the case itself. Remove the feet from the 'short' bottom, and reattach them so that you can lay this down on the larger side, what would normally be the 'back'. Basically, you're going to make this into a sloping horizontal cab instead of a sloping vertical.

And the bottom row is why. Notice: all of the control surfaces are now at the front of the cab, on an easy slope, which makes them...well, controllable controllers. The percussion sequencer is left, so that it can also work as the primary clock, for which I put the Brains (sequencing controller for the Pressure Points) next to that, and, natch, then the Pressure Points. Then the Rene, since it has its touchpad controls for changing things on the fly, and the Rosie mixer/crossfader is over at the right side so that your line out can go right off the side of the cab.

Top row: added a passive mult to do some CV splitting from the controller row or the Lifeforms' MIDI converter, or both. The next two were in the original build, but are mainly voicing, so they went up top along with a Plaits (the new version of the Braids) to double the Braids, then a Quad VCA because this original build was almost devoid of useful VCAs, plus it can also submix the sources.

Middle row is mainly modulation and modifiers, save for the Erica Pico Seq on the left, poised to use the Percussion Sequencer's clock. Added a Quad LFO for some extra basic cyclic modulation, then the Maths for the...well, Maths things, and a dual ADSR envelope for the VCF duties. A TriATT is there for offset voltages, attenuation/inversion of modulators, then a simple CV-controlled distortion module starts off the modifier chain. Next up, a very serious, very vintage character VCF: G-Storm's replica of the 'pre-lawsuit' ARP 2600 low-pass, the infamous Moog ladder copy. Beefy VCF...was very lacking. It can also handle two inputs for a bit of submixing. Then the Rings and DSP at the end to pass through to the Rosie.

Yeah, this thing was a mess...it seemed like whoever had it before had something of an idea of where they wanted to go with the build, but either couldn't get the resources together or, just as possibly, got utterly confused and gave up after adding too much of not exactly the right things. But this is a major improvement...as well as a very usable instrument with the additions and major structural reworking.

EDITED Apr 18th 2018, 22:49

Takes time...you can't just roll up to Synths-R-Us with a panel truck and a briefcase of cash (well, you could, but what would be the point?) and haul off everything in one shot. It's good to have a routine schedule for acquiring gear, but trying to build Alessandro Cortini's studio in one shot would result in an unusable studio.

solitud's big-time right about one thing, tho...that rawer, early piece. Like I said, MS-20 Mini + SQ-1. True, there's people who carp and moan about how the Mini doesn't sound like a 'vintage' MS-20, and there's some truth there: it certainly doesn't sound quite like a 30+ year old box full of 30+ year old components with 30+ years of power cycling, usage, etc. But being one of the few people that I know of to have unboxed a minty-fresh 1st-gen MS-20 back in 1980 when they were still rolling off the production line and then being able to compare/contrast what I vividly recall of that synth with the minty-fresh 1st-gen Mini replica, let me assure you: it's a VERY faithful replica.

Well, I sort of went a little over the top, mainly because I'd opted for a Mantis case, which offers a decent power supply in a very portable (you can even get a matching gigbag for it from Tiptop), inexpensive, and lightweight small case. The Mantis, however, is 2 x 104hp, not a single row, so I figured "ok...let's see if something that really can be a modular stand-out can be cobbled together here, something that gives this user some serious power in a portable cab while still keeping it controllable". Ergo:

OK, so it's not quite so minimal. However, this build not only functions as a modular guitar processing rig, it also has the capability of eliminating the need for several stompboxes. Let's look at this mo'fo...

Top row: first up is the input. Notice that this isn't merely a guitar-in jack. That module also contains the proper level and impedence matching for a guitar-in, plus it has an envelope follower and gate extractor. Envelope followers are the basic circuit in an auto-wah...but in this, you just get an adjustable voltage curve related to the input dynamics which can be sent anywhere as a control voltage. The gate extractor gets set to fire a gate signal when the input level crosses a certain level, so there's a lot of possibilities there, from triggering envelopes to audio 'squaring' the guitar signal. This has two sets of mults associated with it: the active is for splitting/buffering your audio so that it can parallel-feed modules, and the passive's two sections are for distributing the envelope follower and gate.

Then the audio processing chain (although, unlike a normal signal chain in a synth patch, there's no need to serially patch these, hence the active mult): octave divider, wavefolder (CV-able distortion/harmonic folding), Polaris VCF/phaser, EMW Triple Bandpass for three-way swept resonances, a Chronoblob delay (which has an insert point in its feedback path, perfect for mangling what the delay does), mono algorithmic reverb, a CV-able panner (useful for not only panning, but deriving stereo for the last two processors), the Erica Black Hole DSP for all sorts of digital mayhem, and a 4ms Stereo Looping Delay. I tried to get as much of this as was possible under CV control for modulation. To which...

Bottom row: the first four modules are ADDAC Pedal Integrators. Each of these allows for an expression pedal and a footswitch connection. The pedal can scale CV in all sorts of ways, and the footswitch can either be momentary for firing a trigger or, if held, a gate pulse, or you can use an on/off latching switch to turn a gate signal on and off. This allows the build a sizable degree of foot control integration, which is the typical guitar FX control paradigm.

Then the next 'thing'...this is a full-on Erogenous Tones Blip/Radar modulation setup. Basically, it's a complex but easily controllable array of AD/AR envelopes which can fire on trigger, in sequence, in looping arrangements, etc. This is the primary modulation source for the whole damn thing...and I'd say, as such, it's perfectly suited. The Blip is a controller for the Radar, allowing fast reconfiguration for the whole mess and, in a certain sense and depending on how this thing get patched up, allows for global behavior changes for the entire cab, depending on how much of the audio chain is being modulated by the Radar. It's VERY comprehensive; I suggest reading the module descriptions to see what it's capable of before deciding if it's 'too much' or not.

Two voltage controllable slope gens next...sort of more complex versions of the Radar envelopes on steroids. Then noise gen, dual VCO/LFO, and a fun little Doepfer module that incorporates a ring modulator (hence one of the VCO/LFOs), a sample and hold (that's why there's two VCO/LFOs; you need one to clock that) and a slew limiter to 'smear' the behavior of the S&H so it can be used as a randomly-fluctuating modulation source for an effect or two. Natch, you can also kill the slew lim, and that random behavior then becomes stepped.

Kickass 6-2 stereo mixer next, with all input levels under VCA control, manual stereo panning. A MSCL stereo comp/limiter after that before the Bastl Ciao! output, which also has an aux stereo in so that you can send one more stereo pair into the balanced outputs post-mixer, or you can use it to parallel the comp/limiter, or...well, lots of things.

This was sort of a bitch to work on due to the Mantis's depth constraint, but I double-checked on that and everything does fit. And at 1335mA on the +12V and 752mA on the -12 (no 5V!), we're nowhere near the Mantis's current limits. Sure, it's not quite so 'minimal'...but as a performance-capable cab, this pretty much trashes a typical pedalboard. There are so many control/modulation/processing possibilities here, it ain't funny! And a lot of it can be parallelled, using your expression controllers to fade effects processors in and out of the overall mix via the mixer VCAs. Raw power.

Oh, yeah...you won't even need an amp to practice with this, as the Ciao! incorporates a stereo headphone amp. Thought of everything!

EDITED Apr 18th 2018, 00:32

For real portability, BeatStep Pros. You can't beat 'em for a grab-n-go sequencer. 2 channels of CV/gate/exp, 8 drum trigger outs, sync I/O plus MIDI. Plenty of scale definitions, plus loads of user programmability via the USB port + software, plus they're built like all the other Arturia stuff: pretty rugged. And cheap at $249. But if we're talking the larger-scale stuff, look into the Koma Komplex...too much to describe here, but it's about the do-all of analog sequencing environments-in-a-box. And, natch, the ultra-cheap SQ-1 for when you want to drop a sequencer into a setup somewhere and you want a couple lying around for that purpose.

Digital-wise, the Kilpatrick Carbon's not bad: 4 channels of CV/gate, SD storage, plenty of USB and MIDI options for $700. But beyond that, it would make more sense to build some MIDI-CV stuff into a modular cab for extensive control via a computer or iPad; for that, the Expert Sleepers FH-1 and its expander, the FHX-1 (you can add up to seven) is just about the perfect solution, as you can then use MIDI, CV from Silent Way, etc with the appropriate MIDI converter box (Perfect Circuit suggest the iConnect MIDI 2+).

I'll puzzle on the mixer idea...give me a day or two to compile some suggestions.

EDITED Apr 17th 2018, 04:54

Look for Soundcraft, A&H...but also, look under 'mixing console' or 'mixing desk' for search terms. The things that are out there will make your brain implode...for example, there's a listing for an Amek 501 out in Hemet, in your part of the world, 40x8. Granted, it has four strips with repairable issues, but this thing is $2500. A couple of decades back, this would've set you back a few tens of thousands of bucks!

The issue is twofold: in studio settings, so many people have shifted to mixing 'in the box' that proper desks don't get used for typical commercial production these days. And live, road companies and venues are dumping analog desks in favor of smaller digital ones. And this...is dumb. Well, maybe not dumb per se, but the end-result is that devices that cost many thousands and which would've been out of reach for most individual users are now stoopid-cheap. And for electronic music production, I still think that a mixing desk is awfully useful; sure, anyone can mix in their computer, but it loses something in that you can't 'get at' the sound when tracking or mixing and work the controls in real-time as the noises fly by. In a way, it's the selfsame argument in favor of modular synthesizers, just applicable to different gear. So nowadays, you can get a real, full-scale DESK for a few thou at worst.

Granted, then you have to figure out how to use it. But that's not that difficult, no matter how intimidating a large-scale mixer looks. Also, big PA desks can work in a studio environment (if you have space for them!) even if they don't have the ability to 'flip' channel inputs. Just set them up as 'split' desks, and remember which strips are your DAW returns.

I feel as if I may have opened yet another can of worms...

It was an limited-run earlier product...several years back, from around when the reissue came out, and it wasn't cheap, something like $1000 compared to $449 for the MS-20 Mini new and maybe about $400 or less used. At the same time, though, the keyboard version is still very much worth having, plus there's no jack conversion needed (the original '20 as well as the kit module used 1/4" jacks). It's not as large as the full-size version (I've had both at this point), so it's a bit handier, plus the keyboard also has a mod wheel and momentary button switch for various uses with their own patchpoints, which can actually be linked up to something other than the '20.

But, yes...sample-loops made with this can be made to sound like some sort of circuit-damage nightmare when you feed that input section with the right (ie: 'wrong') things. Another nice thing is that its matching SQ-1 sequencer is set up for the Hz/V scaling already and that its sync should lock up nicely with the Volcas. Not only that, it outputs MIDI and MIDI over USB (yeah...it can sequence software synths, too), plus has a special port for those littleBits modules, and it's built like a tank. Damn nice for $99! And yes, it'll also talk just fine to the 0-Coast...and can do that and talk to the MS-20 Mini with the right scaling at the same time (albeit with only 8 steps each...can't chain row A and B when doing that trick). I really think that it and the Arturia BSP are perhaps some of the finest affordable sequencing hardware...perhaps EVER.

Additional mixers: eBay. You can actually get really amazing steals on higher-end PA mixers from several years back for dimes on the dollar. Just a cursory glance shows several small-format units that originally came in at $1200 or more selling for about $300 and less at present. If this sounds like an idea, there's several things to make sure of, but most notable is that you do not want a mixer with onboard effects. This is because you don't necessarily find the best effects units in these in terms of tweakability, and you want total control over your AUX bus architecture instead of being locked into a manufacturer's idea of what you should be doing. PM me at some point on here and we can discuss this, since it's a bit outside the 'synth' topic zone.

EDITED Apr 17th 2018, 02:58

Well, don't discount the MS-20 Mini...if you add that 'nexus cab', it integrates wonderfully with the scalers and inverters. But even without it...well, gonna let you in on a little trade secret...

The MS-20's input section, for normally-pitched instruments, sucks. It mistracks, follows stronger harmonics, etc. BUT...there IS a way to use that to your advantage and get lots of squeally, crunchy percussives out of it. What you do there is to run a percussion source with indefinite pitches into it, patch and adjust the various bits...and VOILA: instant Aphex-style industrialoid acid-type weirdness! The Volca Beats is perfect for this, although my preference is (like Aphex) a TR-606. You just send the pitch-to-CV converter to the VCOs or filter cutoffs, the envelope follower to the filter cutoffs, trigger extraction to the trigger-in, and add some of the bandpass-filtered audio to the VCF. It's insane...and given that you can get a used MS-20 Mini for under $400 these days and an SQ-1 matching sequencer (matches the Volcas, too) for $100 new, its cheap and potent for the money! Put that against the 0-Coast, and you've got some serious sonic mayhem!

With a 606, it has to be heard to be believed...that box's cheezy 'chinnnng' cymbal turns into all sorts of metallics screeches and yowls, for example. Truly an endless source of rhythm processing, that synth.

EDITED Apr 16th 2018, 22:48

Couple of questions: first of all, which case do you have in mind here? I can see a tile row, but is this an Intellijel cab or a 'standard format tile' 4U 84hp case? Second, if it's not an Intellijel, did you have a powered option in mind, or unpowered?

Last: do you think this size is actually sufficient due to portability constraints, etc? The Phonogene and Maths eat a lot of space, and even though this is just a processor cab, you might find that going to two 3U rows makes more sense in the long run.

Well, more space = more...uh...more:

Majorly stepped up, with a lot of new things added. Ten VCOs now, and accordingly, a buffered mult was added in addition to some other passives. Two Plaits, plus eight Doepfers in two Quad VCOs. Different wavefolder with a suboctave divider. More mixers (the Levit8 was moved to allow it to 'split' for audio and CVs if needed). Potentially up to 14 envelopes (the addition of the Stages allows a lot of flexibility with envelopes and other modulation sources), with the Quadrangle adding complex staged/looping ADs x 4. Added a Shifty analog shift register to allow the Metropolis to arpeggiate out four step-shifted CVs from the single CV out. Switched to an EMW 4xADSR for the ADSR EGs, plus added an EMW 4-stage phaser and a Flame FX-16CV for stereo effects. Changed the Mordax to an O'Tool mk2 for space considerations.

Then there's that bottom row...a lot of change there: Metropolis is still present, but I added an 8-channel EMW trigger sequencer (no, no menus there...has a shifting track display with '0' and '1' for trigger on/off indicators...very easy to use, rather 909-ish) and a section of drum modules (TR-606 4-voice clone, 8-voice with Linn LM-1 hits, and an Erica Drums with 16-bit samples). Then a HUGE WMD Performance Mixer setup w/ mute expander...this gives eight channels w/ input VCAs, automatable mutes, two FX busses, metering and cue sends, and a couple of other tricks, this into a Bastl Ciao! with a second stereo in line for the balanced outs.

Note that this will not work on a standard power supply setup that MDLR Case puts in their cabs; it will require the extra Doepfer PSU-3 option, but with that, the power will coast along smoothly. And it goes without saying that this blows your 4000 EUR original limit all to hell...but it's way more powerful and capable than the original build attempts.

There's quite a bit wrong here...first of all, if you're using a powered rack, have you confirmed that it can handle the 5V rail current draw from that Metasonix module? If not, you'd either have to employ a Metasonix (or another similarly hefty) power supply that can handle the tube filament current draw, because a lot of basic Eurorack supplies cannot deal with the operating current draw, to say nothing of the much shorter but potentially greater startup inrush draw.

Second: the Neutron...does not appear to actually exist yet. Sweetwater, for example, doesn't even list it...and they had an advance listing for the Model D for way over a year prior to when Uli finally got around to (likely not getting his ass sued by Moog and) getting them on the shelves. In contrast to the Metasonix powering issue, I don't think any Eurorack power setups are capable of powering up a fictional device.

Third: there's several discontinued modules in here, one of which has already been superceded by its manufacturer (Braids; now Plaits).

Last: if part of the plan is to use some of this as an 'insert' in Cubase paths, there's another way to do this...let's pull out the monkey wrenches...

OK...now this makes more sense! (Or rather, it would make more sense if MG's forum had actually linked the right image instead of the empty case. If that's still showing here, click the case and the correct image should pop up!)

To start with, the ES-8 can handle either audio I/O via USB or ADAT input to provide CVs via Silent Way. That cut a lot of stuff back really quick! I then added a quad wavetable module which also can handle MIDI and does 4-voice polyphony for that 80s-ish Thomas Dolby sort of thing, plus a Quad VCO for audio sources or stacking as one honkin' big single VCO. Ring mod via a uMod, then an 8 channel mixer that can either configure as 8-1 or 4-2.

Processing provides a waveshaper for distortion/folding, Doepfer's version of a 'wave animator' to get that sweepy sawtooth sound, sort of akin to the Roland 'Supersaw', then your Jove JP-6 clone filter, plus a clone of the ARP 2600 'pre-lawsuit' LPF...both of which also have dual inputs for further mixing purposes.

Bottom row: passive mult (you probably won't need a buffered one with this setup), noise, S&H, and random modules with Doepfer's clone of the Buchla 'Source of Uncertainty'. Then modulators: Batumi, Maths, and a Quad ADSR. Veils handles some mixing as well as the ability to shear off a VCA or two for CV amplitude. The neat little Ginko Sampleslicer handles your sample-manipulation, Warps for more processing and the 20-band vocoder. Stereo mix via the 4-in Doepfer stereo mix, plus the Happy Nerding output has a second parallel stereo in to allow you to take a second audio path out via that same balanced stereo pair.

This should fit all of the functions you mentioned above, and fits in an Erica 2 x 126hp cab. The total came out to about $5200...but that would be in USA pricing, and since I used a lot of stuff here that tends to cost considerably less in the EU, we even seem to be fairly close to your 4k EUR budget constraint! Flows better, works better, no power surprises (the Erica 126 case [NOT the skiff!] has a very beefy linear power supply for very quiet and ample DC), and no fictional devices! Works loads better, I think!

EDITED Apr 15th 2018, 23:00

Given a tossup between the Shared System or the Endorphins, I'm more drawn to the MakeNoise stuff. Endorphins is nice, and it's certainly very West Coast-centric, but I think it tends to be overpriced for what it is. On the other hand, the lowest-end Shared System is $1200 more than the Endorphins...but at the same time, it's more complex and capable, specifically designed for portability, and has room for internal expansion -- the layout's not fixed.

One other thing, too...the basic 'CV Bus' Shared System is already a holy terror in terms of functionality when compared with a lot of other prebuilts. Costs $3700...and actually, I think you wind up getting your money's worth and more besides from it. It's also something that has its origins in Alessandro Cortini's rig, so the musical track record you're concerned about already has some proof to it there.

[Time passes, nagging concern gets worked on]

HOT...damn! Check this out, instead of the format switcher box in the PCA bundle:

OK...now THIS is superior gear, dammit! Check it...

Top row contains a couple of attenuverters, then an entire setup to allow for four stompbox inserts...buffered mult for up to 1-4 division, then four Syinsi FX send/return tiles, paired with a 4-1 audio mixer.

Middle: format switcher heaven! Bananas to 3.5mm and also 1/4". In the middle, also...a 2hp 4-1 mixer, a switchable mult (either 2 four-way or 1 eight-way) and a gate/trigger diode OR combiner.

Bottom row...big surprise...mults and a pair of Syinsi scalers, to work with the dual inverter in the middle. Why? Well, with these, you can also perfectly integrate an MS-20 Mini into this whole mess! Bidirectional, too...there's a scaler and inverter for both a 'to' and 'from' function. Also, more attenuverters and a couple of att-offsets in case there's a need (invariably, there always is!) for some DC offset voltage for transposition, shifting modulation waveforms, etc etc.

All this fits in a Pulplogic Zissou LBZ54 for portability, self-powered. A bit spendy...but the idea here is that, since you're considering a real leap into patchables and cross-format connection, THIS is the permanent solution! It can function effectively as a crossconnection nexus, with the sort of utility bits you'd want right there.

EDITED Apr 16th 2018, 02:26

Yeah, that's the bundle that works best for the Phenol...quite familiar with it.

If that's the general idea, my take on how to approach this would be, in order: 0-Coast (which you have), Phenol bundle, Field Kit (because at that point, you will need a mixer), then the Modulor114. Then...surprise, surprise...the Ants!, because at that point you can break it out in all directions and no longer have to depend on its sound production alone. It becomes part of all of the other patchables for beefing their capabilities up, making it an 'expander' for the whole rig rather than something with an inherently weak sound in of itself.

Then...once you get up to speed on that setup...add a very simple Buchla device. In fact, what I have in mind is only two modules in a LEM3: the 252e Polyphonic Rhythm Generator and a 223e Kinesthesic Input Port/Controller. Yeah...that's about $6k, but it gives you a combination master performance controller and sequencer which can either patch directly to the Phenol or, via a format changer or two more, can interface directly with ALL of the rig, giving you the rhythmic/CV sequencer plus a 3-space multiassignable touchplate controller. Terrifying! But it integrates the entire pile of stuff as a singular instrument, and in essence, you've already built the 'rack' out of the patchables. If you did feel the need to add Eurorack (or other) modules after that point, the amount needed would likely be minimal, and limited to exotic devices, as all of the basics would be handled in the integrated patchable rig.

OK...flow was seriously reworked. Clock and Disting + mult are now upper-left. Audio sources next, starting with the Plonk so it can take a trigger out easily from the Tempi, then the oscillators after that, into your Veils. Filter after that...which puts the entire audio generation/modification chain up top along with your clocking.

Bottom row starts with the LFOs, then the sequencer so it can tap-upwards for its clock, then back up again to the oscillators nearby. All the envelope gens are grouped now, and proximal to the Tempi as well for triggers. I added a TriATT to make it easy to scale and invert your modulation sources (this is why it's last in the modulation section) as well as provide offset voltages or serve as an extra mixer...it's quite versatile for its size and cost.

Then the Frames for mixing, taking the filter feed down to the bottom where the mod sources are to modulate the Frames. Next, another addition: an Erica Pico DSP. This adds some basic effect processing, plus also stereoizes the Frames' output so it works better with the fully-stereo Clouds, then off to the outputs. Or, alternately, you can take a pair out from the Frames and feed this to the Clouds, then using the Pico DSP to put effects on the feed from the VCF to the Frames. Lots of potential there.

You'll notice, also, that I ejected the uZeuses in favor of a 4ms Row Power 40; this is more than adequate for the build's current draw, returns 4 hp back to other modules, and simplifies the power arrangement, eliminating the need for two P/S modules.

All flow now works left-to-right on both rows, with the ability to 'loom' up or downwards as needed in a fairly logical order. This should be a lot smoother to work with!

EDITED Apr 15th 2018, 00:23

For the direction you want to go in, which is really aggro and f**ked up, I'm thinking that the best in these early stages would be the Phenol, but make sure you get a format-changer box to convert back and forth from it and the 0-Coast. That's necessary not only because the 0-Coast and Phenol use very different jack formats, but the Phenol needs the interface box to extend its ground-plane to so that it can go on over the 'shield' on the 3.5mm jacks. Yeah...this could get real fun, real quick!

USA...makes sense, since Mutable's in the EU and Intellijel is Canadian and subject to NAFTA tariff relaxations. Same difference, though...they're pretty much interchangeable.

Right...in fact, Maths is more complex, because you also have CV over 'rise' and 'fall' rates, allowing you to CV-shape the resulting output curves on the fly as part of your patch. Basically, it's a module that's derived from the classic Serge Dual Universal Slope Generator...and as such, you can use it as an envelope, complex function gen, LFO, or even an actual VCO at a pinch!

As for the 3hp Erica DSP...think carefully here: most of your signal paths tend to be mono, but the DSP has a mono in and stereo outs, meaning that not only is it an effects processor, it's also where you can generate a stereo signal to feed both channels of the Clouds. I jammed that in like that so that you could take a mono signal, stereoize it for the Clouds, then pass the Clouds on to the stereo channel of the Erica mixer. Thinking in signal chains like that is a real key to getting maximum function out of a build!

Looking at the Stages specs right now...I think that may well be your best option for multiple envelopes. I think several 2 hp ADSRs might be a good idea, however, simply for the VCA contours over the Praga to get your final dynamic shaping prior to the output chain. Looking at the second build above, I see six VCAs outside of the Praga...using the Stages as a one-shot (or some multiple EG configuration) should be able to feed most or all of those properly, leaving only the Praga's channel VCAs.

You need 8 hp. If you were to drop the Erica Voice and Mod, and one Disting, that would give 10. So, four ADSRs, then replace the Mod with either an AD or another ADSR so you actually get that function back...that might button this thing up!

Check with Metasonix themselves. I know they offer some P/S options that can handle their tube module draws, most notably across the 5V rail for the tube filaments. They're also cogniscent that the filaments draw considerably more on startup than once they're at operating temperature, since they have to overcome the thermal version of inertia in order to get up to operating temps. Once there, they draw 'less'...although, that's one massive 'less' that they draw.

Erica also has a solution to filament voltages, but I'm not sure if it's compatible with Metasonix modules...it might just be for their own tube modules. In their case, there's a retrofitted 6.3VDC supply added which supplies the filaments.

Congrats on the 0-Coast, btw...now you can see the screaming raw POWER that having full control over the patch architecture offers! To quote noted actor and weirdo John Travolta: "Ain't it cool?"

I think you just blew up a Row Power 40.

Seriously, check your draw on the R-55's 5V tap. This build wouldn't even make it through the warmup of that module before the Magic Blue Smoke got out.

It's getting closer, to be sure...my instinct, though, would be to drop the second Disting (fun tho that might be) in favor of a second Synthrotek ADSR (good pick), and then still trying to jam a couple more AR-types in. Remember, if you're using the Praga as the performance mixer, that also has exponential VCAs for its audio and you can feed envelopes to those to do your final dynamic shaping. Having one more ADSR would help the Praga really shine in that way, and then you can use the extra AR/ASRs to do the envelope response, linear VCA mixer response, and also for a bit of extra modulation sources. Maybe dropping the O'Tool would free up a bit more for that, as this rig seems to me to be a bit envelope-hungry.

Otherwise...it's getting there!

OK...you'll notice I made the cab bigger but many modules got smaller; as a result, it's a tighter, better-implemented version. Case is a Pittsburgh EP-270 (3 x 90 hp), inexpensive for the size but with beefy power specs: 4A on +12, 3 on -12, and 2 on 5 to power 1679mA on the +12 rail, 861mA on -12, and 25mA on the 5V. This way, the power supply gets to loaf along on a light load, reducing heat and component stress and improving stability.

5 VCOs now: I shrank the Verbos Complex VCO in favor of a Sputnik, which is not only smaller, it has a little bit more going on functionally. Then there's a TZFM VCO, and two regular Doepfers. Ring mod got added, then a 4-in summing mixer before a Tiptop wavefolder with a suboctave generator. Triple VCA mixer at the end along with a passive mult (the one at the VCO end is active, plus tandemmed with a dual switchable-direction slew limiter).

Modulation row: noise/random/S+H, then a pair of EMW LFOs. Maths (of course) next, then the next two modules are an Intellijel Quadra (four AR/ASR loopable envelopes) with its expander/CV control. Erica dual ADSR next, then two filters: a Doepfer A-106-1 and a Limaflo Motomouth.

Now, these are weird filters, to be sure. The Doepfer is a dirtier take on a Korg MS-20 Sallen-Key pair, but it has this weird feature: an insert point in its resonance feedback circuit. This means that you can drop stuff into that path and alter how the filter pair deals with its resonance signal in loads of ways...for example, the filter next to it, which is a very weird vocal formant-morphing thing. So, with that sort of path, you can have the regular LP/HP combo, but everything feeding back to cause resonance is getting colored up by vocal vowel formants. That's just one example of this sort of A-106-1-type mayhem. There's others, to be sure.

Bottom row: your Metropolis is there, but I did something to the Quantimator: it mutated into a two-channel Doepfer quantizer and a two-channel shift register, with a lot of potential variation that the single-channel Quantimator could never have pulled off. Now, you can actually assign one voicing to the first quantizer/shift register, and put another on the second two...or put the VCO pitches on one side and the filter cutoffs on the other, or...well, you get the idea. Same device, but twice as nice! Two more VCAs, primarily for CV use but they can also switch to exponential for audio, then a TriATT, which can be used as a set of attenuverters, a 3-in mixer, or three channels of CV offset...or a couple of those at the same time.

Four-in stereo mixer, this goes to the Morphagene, which allows you to loop/granulate/warp/mangle the entire synth's output in stereo, with the output module (with transformer isolation and a ganged stereo level pot) right there for output to line-level.

So, yeah...it's quite a bit of your idea, just refined, put into a bigger case, and tightened up with a straightforward signal flow pattern. Fairly cost-effective for the size, too...modules came in at $5106, case is $599 street. Now that's a respectable starter Eurorack, with an eye for unconventional sound and plenty of potential. Whatcha think?

That's what's nice about certain of the patchable systems...if they're properly done, you have ample choices, plus the expandability into actual modules is built-in and doesn't have to be kludged into working.

Explaining Phenol...OK, back at the beginning of synthesis, Don Buchla's systems wound up all up and down the West Coast at various schools, one of which was CalArts. And there was constant hassles over getting time on the sole Buchla system they had, so Serge Tcherepnin who was an instructor and composer there around 1970 came up with this idea to cook up some basic module boards, parts kits, predrilled panels, and paper panel layouts, and offer these to the students as a project that a number of them could collaborate in building, with the result being that everyone wound up with a few panels which made up a fairly potent patchable synth. These originals actually had no name, and were mostly assembled in an ad-hoc assembly line around a courtyard at CalArts' music department, and wound up being called 'Serge' synths because it was Serge Tcherepnin who cooked the whole project up.

Serge made some changes over Don's designs, though. First off, Serge made his systems more interconnection-friendly. Early Buchlas used all sorts of non-standard voltages and separated the control signals from the audio. Serge changed this so that his modules worked with 1V/8va scaling and positive triggers, and put the audio and control signals back as one single jack group, so that audio could easily be used as CVs, and vice-versa. Second, the actual Serges always tended to follow the form factor that had been used in the first place: modules were mounted onto predrilled aluminum panels, and as these became commercial products, you had to specify which modules you wanted on which custom panels for your system...which is a ROYAL pain in the ass to work with, I assure you!

Now, Andrew Kilpatrick and some other synth builders in the 1990s and 2000s decided to try and do the Serge-type connection format in different ways. Bruce Duncan of Modcan, in his Modcan A systems, created very tall/long modules, and Kilpatrick went more toward Buchla's 4U panels, both using bananas while at the same time, both also did Eurorack development (and Modcan also did their 5U 'B' systems). But it was Ken Stone that worked with Rex Probe and Serge Tcherepnin eventually, after devising some similarly Serge-like modules on his own, and this became Elby, which famously did their 'EuroSerge' form factor...3U with banana jacks.

Why banana jack/plugs? Several reasons, actually...

First of all, the patchcables are lunkhead-simple to make. They don't even require soldering, and you only have a single wire, so it's possible to build piles of patchcables with a wire cutter/stripper and a small adjustment screwdriver (the banana plugs have a setscrew in them that holds the wire in place), and these don't tend to wear out over time. Granted, there have been some people who've griped about crosstalk since the 'ground' is established across the panel, but that's really not a hugely consequental issue for most users.

And second, banana plugs are stackable. This eliminates the need for multiples, and also encourages users to splay signals out in all directions for various purposes, so that one signal source might actually be busy doing numerous things with numerous functions all over the place. Hence why the Phenol is such a potent device, despite it actually seeming rather simple. However, this one 'plus' comes with a big caveat: it is easy to get distracted while patching something complicated and accidentally connect an output to another output. Now, if this happens on a conventional two-conductor jack system, if the outputs don't have diode protection, the result can be damage to one or both modules. But on a banana jack system, a patchcord array that has this output-output patching might be capable of damaging several things at once if the synthesist gets sloppy while programming a patch...say, three outputs get connected. Then you'd run a risk of frying all three outputting modules, and the small instance of overvoltage (if that happens) could also overload and 'pop' any inputting modules in the patchcord array. Icky. But this just means you have to be CAREFUL...which you should be, anyway.

Anyway, banana systems are another compact option on par with Eurorack, inasmuch as there's both prebuilds like the Phenol and a sizable module base. Plus Serge/STS also does their 'shop panel' series, prebuilt panels that, while they cost quite a bit, do astonishing things sonically. The Serge was also sort of the original '0-coast' idea; it had the ability to work with subtractive synthesis to a much greater degree than the Buchlas, but patched in a manner more akin to a Buchla and made use of a touchpad key sequencer like Don's systems tended to.

Anyway, yeah, bananas do look a little...odd. But I have stuff here that uses those as well as loads of other jack formats, and I never see any issues with them. Plus the stackability allows a flexibility you just cannot find easily with typical bipolar connection systems. And if you run out of cables...well, just ring up Mouser or Allied or whatever, get a bag of Pomonas and a roll of 16ga stranded copper wire, then bust out the tools for an evening, and soon enough you'll have a pile of new cables to use. Easy-peasy!

EDITED Apr 13th 2018, 21:56

Yeah, I saw that demo, too...not the best programming work there, true. But keep in mind that when you crossconnect devices, a lot of shortcomings that you'd see in a device like that tend to vanish because the interconnectivity can allow you to route around the things that don't work well in that particular box, but then you can also use those 'don't work well' things in conjunction with ones that do, also. Phenol was another one I perhaps should've mentioned, although you'll need a format-changer box to go from bananas to 3.5mms to pair it.

But then, there's the terrifying idea of two Phenols, too...and this leads in the direction of Serge-type gear, which Elby, Random*Source and others can do in Eurorack format but _also_ with bananas. And there's something to be said for that patching format, because multiples aren't needed at all, and signals can start branching all over the place, leading to some VERY complex sounds. Another consideration, perhaps...?

Well, like I said, don't get discouraged. MG is an incredible resource for figuring out what you actually are trying to accomplish sonically and what bits and pieces, in what order, work to get you there. Spend some time here researching others' racks and seeing what experienced synthesists are doing, asking questions, and working on lots of builds to try and sketch out an approach. True, modular synthesizers aren't a thing to just dive into casually...especially these days...but the fact is that it's loads easier now thanks to resources like MG to eventually arrive at something that you intuitively KNOW you can live with and work with for years to come. Takes time, and practice...like most anything else worthwhile!

Hmm...well, maybe put a second DixieII+ in instead of the Doepfer. Saves space, which you need with that honkin' big Verbos Buchla 200 clone.

I'd also try and dissuade you from that Cwejman filter. Again, it's huge (which means it's stealing space for some other things you need) and quite spendy for what it is. You could likely get more done with two smaller VCFs, especially if you can interlink them, then you'd have room for the VCAs that you're missing and the multiples you need to spread certain CVs out.

Think smaller modules here. The devices that make sense that are large (Metropolis, Verbos VCO, Maths) leave you way less room than you need if you keep using large panel spaces. That, or scrap the rack and move up to something bigger...which might be a good idea, actually. Starting with more space and having to figure out how to fill it once your mission-specific modules are in place is usually more rewarding than hitting that cab's hp limit and then realiing that there's important bits missing.

Ahhh...you missed one: the Plankton Ants!. It's a killer value for $599, one you should consider even alongside one of the others as an expander. Plus if paired with the Modulor 114, you'd then have a very small (backpack-sized) setup with 6 VCOs, for starters. Consider those two together; they come in at about the same price (or less) than the others. Toss it together with the logical mixer (ie: a Koma Field Kit), and you'd have a rig that could fit easily in a backpack or small carry-on case.

Whooo...this is not bad at all! Your prospective choices are pretty spot-on, actually. As for the reverb on your chord parts, though...I'd be more inclined to do that outside of the modular via an FX send/return on your primary mixer to have better control/blend over that signal. Otherwise, you run a risk of getting the modular's output signal a bit too muddy and cluttered. However, what I would suggest is to process the chord parts in the modular with a phase shifter to get a nice, potentially spatialized sense of timbral motion. As for the filtering on that, you might consider some sort of resonator...maybe aim for that classic Korg PS-series sort of multiband depth. Both of those together would be really wild...very much in that classic Basic Channel sort of sonic zone, given the dubby/spacy sweeping you'd get.

Another VCF to consider might be DINsync's SARA VCF...it's also a state-variable, but it has a very odd architecture that the manufacturer refers to as 'dual opposed-core', which should be in that dual-peak style of the Praga but might actually be stranger in character. Plus it has two big purple knobs...which would look very visually intriguing for live gigging.

Arrangement definitely needs work, tho...hang on a few minutes...ok, maybe a bit longer since MG's acting up, but...

Howzzat?

Went ahead and, as suggested, fleshed it on out. You'll note a few modules missing from the original, notably the Tallinn and Peaks, which were replaced with the Optomix and a bit of the RADAR. That last thing is a killer...eight looping AD/ASR generators with a separate controller module, the BLIP. I'd say that satisfies all envelope generation needs for this build! I located it centrally to make it convenient to the entire build at the same time.

Batumi (and Poti) added, along with the Belgrad (too little space for the SARA VCF, but the Belgrad fit just fine), along with a Delptronics LDB-2 for analog 606/808-ish drums, then a six-in stereo Ladik mixer, with the Morphagene in 'post' position followed by the Erica Output. Sequencer/clocking area was reordered to straighten out the step-down flow of the clock from the Metropolis thru to the Erica Seq and sequential switch (now in position to switch clock outputs from the Euclidean). All voicing to the top row, where the MTE 4 is set to work as a unity-gain muting mixer for a channel of the Veils. Also, the DSP is post-Optomix to make it convenient for tinkering with the output(s) from that. Didn't cram in a phaser, but there should be enough in there for extreme sonic damage purposes.

Think that'll work?

EDITED Apr 13th 2018, 02:28

Yep...the price discrepancy on the Entry Point for the same functions (pretty much) as the A-119 just doesn't make sense, plus you lose 2 extra hp of space to it. Granted, it has that square-wave 'extractor', but if you're not inputting something that has a very pure waveform in the first place, or which has numerous pitches, that's not likely to function properly. Not quite the same thing as a proper P-V converter, which tends to be a bit pricier.

And if we're talking Erica mixers, have you had a look at their Black Output Module? Pricier, but you get a stereo mixer with CV over panning, 3 mono channels and one stereo, a master gain, balanced outputs + a headphone amp, and it only takes up four more hp. That thing is pretty serious, takes care of the output + stereo mix thing, gives you a proper stereo in for the Clouds. $150 more, but I think you get your money's worth on that, given that the Black Stereo Mixer is roughly $150 and a stereo output will run another $75-100 for something decent. Plus the panel width used should be the same.

(Later): OK, I banged on it a little...several modules went away, and the goal here was to jack the functionality up as much as I could in a small space. 6 EGs (two AHDSR, two ADSR w/ inverters, two AD), 6 VCA (Intellijel Quad ($10 cheaper than Mutable's) and two linears), 6-channel mixer for sources, added a Maths, condensed the effects while breaking them out a little for some separate processing. Kept the Clouds, added the Black Output v2, plus also crammed in a ring mod and waveshaper, and cleaned up the signal flow. Here 'tis:

Better?

EDITED Apr 13th 2018, 03:34

Sigh...sorry to do this, but it's bubble-pop time.

There's only two sound sources in this build, and one of those is a noise generator. Even with a uBraids, the sound is going to be a tad thin.

More confusingly, there's two very large and very complex filters in there. If there's only one actual oscillator, then why have those?

Also, why the ribbon controllers? Or two granular sample processors? Or a buffered mult when a passive one will do here? And where are your VCAs, even for just audio level control?

I have a feeling that these modules aren't going to work in the way you think they will. This might be pretty, but if you were to put this together for real, the only 'pretty' it's probably going to wind up being is 'pretty frustrating'.

See https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/3015 before going too much further, please. You're contemplating spending a sizable amount of money on something that's only barely a synthesizer if this is an actual consideration. If not, then scrap it, do some more research, and start over. This isn't a simple thing that can be tossed together casually; the likely result will be money ill-spent on a device that only causes annoyance when you figure out what it won't do.