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Long story short, I really want to have an SSM2044 filter setup. I come from the MidiBox world and the MBSID + 2044 is soooo good but I realized it might be better to go modular rather than using the more integrated approach with MidiBox.
My bare minimum plan was something like this:
A pre-amp / line-level in, out, a few mixers (for summing stereo to mono for the single 2044 and to blend an ENV and LFO), Env/LFO, and Fonitronik DIY 2044 module. I picked that one since, though it's not the most compact, I already have 2044 chips (somewhere around here) from looking at building the MidiBox stuff and can use those. I can forgo the mixers by running a mono signal to the rack via my sound cards as well to save a bit.
Am I missing anything?
I have a stereo build too but notice the word of caution on Modular Addict that 2044's aren't always well matched, but that might be something I expand to in the future, perhaps looking at a full channel strip of sorts. I'd also like to add a few VCOs and VCAs so I have an actual synth rather than just a fancy effect box but starting with the filter gives me options (notably combining it with my MB6582, GameBoy, etc.).
thumbnail and link don't match - you should try refreshing the rack and re-pasting the url
I'd question the number of 2hp modules when there is no need for such miniaturization!
even in a small case such as this (get a bigger one - you'll want/need it eventually - mantis/doepfer lc9 etc) there is so much space for these few modules - also in terms of midi interface - getting a bigger one, with more channels is a better way to go - as the modular grows it will stop you from buying another and another, if you plan ahead a bit - same with mixer
you might want to get some lfos - for modulation purposes - probably want vcas too (veils or intellijel quad or the happy nerding one are all good ideas)
is it really that big a deal if L & R are different sounding - to some extent it's a good idea - and it could become a sort of signature for your work - processing stereo through discrete but similar modules can be significantly more interesting than through a matched pair - will sum to mono better too...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Thank you so much!!! I realize this was a newb question, so I do really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts! Very helpful, particularly because it can be daunting with so many options as a newcommer! Also sorry about the link - I didn't realize it'd break but I've been going a tad crazy with building various options - being a bit all over the map if I'm honest. The one I've been messing with the most if this one which, yeah, I went a tad nuts on (for trying to keep it somewhat simple anyway):
That includes delay and reverb also as well as 2 VCOs and VCAs and, to your point, still has a few tiny modules. The bare minimum goal is still getting an SSM2044 filter to start but the above is one route I was thinking of going. I also pondered what a Eurorack sort of channel strip might look like. Echo and Reverb can be done in my DAW too though I do tend to prefer offboard when I can (I have a Memory Man and find it's often, but not always, preferable to the options I have in Ableton and Renoise). But I also have been realizing, that does make for a mixing/mastering nightmare if there's just too much going on all at once on a channel.
Anyways back to the 2044's, good point about the differences in the chips being a benefit - I had pondered this as well and why I opted to mess around with the above setup as a concept. It just seems like it might require more utilities to do that, but yeah also gives me more options (particularly with the MBSID again since the real SIDs themselves aren't particularly well matched, and that is a good thing). I was indeed thinking of an LFO and a mixer so I can mix between MIDI CV, an env, and the LFO to modulate the cutoff. And perhaps ressonance and, if I opt to get them, modulating the echo rate and such. Multiple LFOs isn't something I was thinking about though, as well as VCAs if just doing effects and it sounds like I'm missing something there? I know the saying goes "you can't have too many VCAs" but I don't yet know quite why - at least for an effect-centric solution? I feel like I'm missing something important here, though I do see that Intelligel 4x VCA can work as a sort of mixer - that's neat!
I'm glad to hear about the MIDI bit as I spent time today looking at this very thing. I think I'm leaning towards the Mutant Brain as a good place to start. The Poly 2 caught my eye too (and like the fact they released a full on hardware tracker - I
I'll echo Jim's advice here: don't build this out of a pile of 2-4 hp modules. The result will be a total mess when patching, and then you've got to be able to easily/intuitively get at the controls...which will be a bitch with all of the wires everywhere. Especially if this is an FX device, and your attention is divided between the instrument feeding this and working the Euro build itself. One of those proverbial "recipes for disaster", although not quite that dire...just sufficient to drive you up the wall!
There's two ways to accomplish that. One is to manually increase an attenuator that's fed by an LFO, but this can have some human "slop". The other is to feed the LFO into a VCA, then feed that VCA with an envelope with a slow rise. Now, consider if that scope pattern was of a pitch modulation signal. What you would have if you fed that to, say, a VCO's FM input, would be a gradually-increasing up and down pitch-waver in the VCO's output. This is why VCAs are important for things that DON'T emit sound...they have the capacity for loads of control signal variation, with this being just a sample.
Very good points made yep, thanks for the insight!
The LFO thing I had to read a few times haha and I kind of get it, but I think I'll need to play around setting up something like that in VCV before maybe I truly "get it", though the point is well noted! Does make me feel like getting a 6U (2x84) style rack is probably the better option and worth the up front investment. I might outgrow that too but I think it'll take a little longer at least.
get a mantis (6u/104hp) if you can, or a doepfer lc9 - these are the best bang for buck cases (hp/cost) that you can get and both have decent power supplies that have been around for quite a while
vcas are incredibly useful for both audio and modulation purposes - I think it's a great idea to have a play with them in vcvrack
I'd take veils over the intellijel quad - slightly smaller for starters
personally I'd recommend a Make Noise Maths over the b-company dual envelope/lfo - especially to a newbie - as it has possoibly the greatest modular learning resource - the 'maths illustrated supplement' dedicated to it - download the pdf and read through it a few times, ven if you don't buy the module, but it might inspire you to get the module, if you know what I mean...
good luck and have fun!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I'm leaning towards the Doepfer I think yeah. Their switchmode/linear hybrid PSU is interesting too. I don't have the knowledge to say better or worse than a fully modern switcher (I use a 5V switching regulator for my custom MB6582 power supply and doesn't seem any worse) but is an interesting approach. Moreso I like the wood - even just unstained, though if I got one I'd probably stain it to match my shelves.
Maths. Oh boy! Yeah that gives me a ton to think about and work through. It's a lot to take in, but I never thought about asymmetric LFOs until I started working my way through that PDF (and some videos which helped kinda fit the theory into the end sound). It's quite a beast and yeah turns some of these concepts on their head.
Before I really get into that, first things first, I'll continue messing about with VCAs in VRV. I'd like to see if I can figure out Kraftwerk's cover album among other things. It's a good reminder too that I haven't at all been considering the price of patch cables (namely due to needing more than I thought I would) ;)
It's a good reminder too that I haven't at all been considering the price of patch cables (namely due to needing more than I thought I would) ;)
-- m00dawg
yeah, I know the feeling - I'm at about 300 or so and probably need more soon!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
It's a good reminder too that I haven't at all been considering the price of patch cables (namely due to needing more than I thought I would) ;)
-- m00dawg
yeah, I know the feeling - I'm at about 300 or so and probably need more soon!
-- JimHowell1970
Honestly, once you get on up into the hundreds of patch cords, it starts to make more sense to just get a spool of Belden 8441 (three conductor with foil shielding) and a pile of Switchcraft 250s, then whip out the ol' soldering iron. That way, you can do patchcords of whatever length you need. True, it's tedious AF, but you get a superior patch cord (that foil makes a definite difference in keeping crap off of your signals) AND you pump up your soldering game. Same trick applies for 3.5mm cords as well, although you might be better going with Belden 9396 for those and, of course, the right 3.5mm connector...in this case, I recommend CUI Devices MP-3502s for the plugs.
I'd like to see if I can figure out Kraftwerk's cover album among other things.
-- m00dawg
I gotcha here...Ralf's rig consists of a Minimoog and a Farfisa Professional Piano, plus some small instruments. Florian's, however, is much more complicated...
There's two mixers in front of him, and they appear to be early Barth mixers. I say that because these bear a strong resemblance to Can's pre-MCI mixing console, which I know is a custom Barth. Below the right mixer, the two big cases appear to be either Echolette or Dynacord power amps. The stack to his right has an oscilloscope, a graphic EQ (maybe Dynacord?), a Dynacord Echocord Super tape delay, and I suspect that the bottom device is their early vocoder. His mic is a Shure 55 (or a copy), then he has a bass flute, alto flute, an A flute, a C flute, and a piccolo, plus an 8-string lap steel.
And yes, that's an early shot of the inside of their Klingklang Studio in Dusseldorf. It's also a very good bet that there's more widgetry off-camera.
It's a good reminder too that I haven't at all been considering the price of patch cables (namely due to needing more than I thought I would) ;)
-- m00dawg
yeah, I know the feeling - I'm at about 300 or so and probably need more soon!
-- JimHowell1970
Honestly, once you get on up into the hundreds of patch cords, it starts to make more sense to just get a spool of Belden 8441 (three conductor with foil shielding) and a pile of Switchcraft 250s, then whip out the ol' soldering iron. That way, you can do patchcords of whatever length you need. True, it's tedious AF, but you get a superior patch cord (that foil makes a definite difference in keeping crap off of your signals) AND you pump up your soldering game. Same trick applies for 3.5mm cords as well, although you might be better going with Belden 9396 for those and, of course, the right 3.5mm connector...in this case, I recommend CUI Devices MP-3502s for the plugs.
-- Lugia
I would if i thought I'd need a ton more - but I probably don't, maybe another 50 or so will keep me going for ever... and not all at once - maybe 20 more this year and some more next year...
I don't plan on expanding forever - maybe 3-4 modules (plus some diy as needed) this year and some of that tiptop/buchla (and maybe a couple of video modules) next year - and I'll probably be near as damn it done... maybe some more DIY modules and anything that seriously catches my eyes or ears - but tbh, not a lot really does... thankfully!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I don't plan on expanding forever...
-- JimHowell1970
Hm. Yeah. Right. We all know you're just as hooked as the rest of us.
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Exactly I started with a modest Doepfer A100 Basic system 6u setup and quickly grew to a near full 12u Doepfer monster base and case plus a full MDLR 12u case with dozens of modules a year later. I’ve come now to a good stopping point to focus on my setup and will only buy a module on rare occasions now. Part is to allow myself to master what I have and part is due to being a new home owner with mortgage payments, property taxes and home repairs. Still all good since my studio space is larger and no sound limits.
I don't plan on expanding forever...
-- JimHowell1970
Hm. Yeah. Right. We all know you're just as hooked as the rest of us.
-- Lugia
ok ok I plan on significantly slowing down expansion... says he seriously considering spending another £1800 on 4 more modules and some DIY stuff (including another new power supply) and with a chromagnon still on pre-order! but after that it may just be some of those tiptop/buchla modules - but will need to get a job before that!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Hmm so I may have taken a bit of a pivot. I'm about to say the B word :) But this got long, so the I'll put the TLDR at the top. There's some hate for Behringer ("Bearinjure", after all) some definitely justified, some not. But the Neutron. That thing looks pretty cool as a way to get into all this since I could use it with a Eurorack (though I read here about how much that actually costs in HP and will likely not put it in a Eurorack case). So what are folks' thoughts about it here? I dug around and it seemed it's fairly well received despite being from that one company.
The long bit that's unnecessary but is an update to my Eurorack thoughts:
Originally when the Neutron came out I had written it off - I don't know why. But after going pretty crazy with figuring out where I want to go with the rack, I noticed the Neutron has a lot of compelling things built-in that I was trying to sort through (like ENVs, VCAs, VCOs, etc.) while balancing my SSM2044 and effect ideas.
I still definitely want to do all that - particularly because having stereo VCFs seems compelling, at least for the MBSID as it produces some stereo effects (due to not perfectly matched SIDs and things, which I find useful) and some of the other stereo effects (like Black Hole) seem quite useful. But I ended up going maybe a tad off the rails :) Mostly trying to figure out where I want to go beyond the 2044's and ended up with this:
Of note I tried to avoid the B 100 modules but I was having some trouble finding things in a form factor I liked at least for something more "conventional". On that note, notice there is no Maths here - I don't think I'm ready for that :) though my band mate seemed to really enjoy the concept when I showed him what it was. I am excited, oddly, about Plaits and similar modules though, which kinda surprised me as I've been on a big analog kick the last few years, but Plaits can do interesting things I don't think I can do with my existing hardware synths, along with all the modulation possibilities. I also liked Erica Synths' PICO VCO since it could double as an LFO and I was finding I kept wanting to mix LFOs into things while playing around with patches.
Anyways while doing all that, I rediscovered Neutron. And now that I kinda have a clue about how all this stuff works, it looks compelling. It has a lot of the things I was trying to put together (filter, BBD, distortion) to use for the SID and other things but has some pretty crazy VCOs with it and could be a base to work from when I build the actual EuroRack as it has a lot of the base modules I would need and would let me be a bit more incremental. Only downside is lack of a stereo filter but this could give me a good taste of how well I'll get along with routing my MBSID (or other things) through an external filter. The Neutron does have a filter that seems like it could fit the SIDs' already gritty sound too. The MIDI support seems a bit lacking but a gate and using the assign to the modwheel or some such can let me trigger the filter and do some programmatic modulation along with clock sync. Not nearly as complete as Mutant Brain (that thing seems sooooo darn flexible) but I think enough to get me what I want. I kinda wonder what the Prophet '08 might sound like through that crazy filter too!
Please post a link to the actual public rack (the url) and NOT a jpg... help us help you!!!
If you are happy giving your money to the b-company, then go ahead...
the biggest problem with buying something like the neutron is that you don't get to choose exactly what you want and if you want to swap say the filter for something else, then you can't just pull the filter and replace it as easily
as for Maths - I would go for it now - I didn't buy Maths to start with and it took me about 6-7 months to get round to buying it, but I wish I'd bought it in the first group of modules I bought - and worked my way through the 'maths illustrated supplement' a good few times - as it's the best learning resource for patching, especially thinking about patching, there is
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Doh! Sorry about the link! I thought the JPG might be easier since I messed up the rack link last time. Here's the MG link:
That's mostly me just playing around with patching and trying to think about where I might want to take things. It's not what I would start with.
Fair point about Maths too. I took another look at it this morning and it does pack a ton into a single module with a lot of flexibility. Solves my "I need more LFOs, oh except when I need an envelope, oh except I really need a VCA/mixer..." problem in one module, plus other crazy things. I intentionally opted not to change the layout in the link above but I think I'll mess around with what maths can replace in a copy of the above and go from there. It looks like there might be an emulation or something similar enough to Maths in VCV that might help me "get it" a bit more.
Also turns out, duh, I was just reading the manual! I thought that's what you meant but the supplement, and duh, I feel silly now. I found the actual one and yes, that helps A LOT!
Thanks again Jim! You've been really helpful along my newbie modular journey!
I believe the first one is the original source though the download link is a MediaFire one so if anyone had any qualms about that, the second link is a direct download. The original post has a black background version which I find easier to read though so that's probably the best place to go get it.
EDIT: Oh and here's an alternative panel for folks that might want something a little easier to read. I'm blind as a bat so while I like the aesthetic of the original panel, this one easier on the eyes for me:
well don't buy modules that don't make you happy - wait a while and find the ones that do and buy them instead!!!
Doh! Sorry about the link! I thought the JPG might be easier since I messed up the rack link last time. Here's the MG link:
That's mostly me just playing around with patching and trying to think about where I might want to take things. It's not what I would start with.
that's better - it really helps us help you to see the actual rack - remember there's over 9k of eurorack modules these days - no one knows all of them...
Fair point about Maths too. I took another look at it this morning and it does pack a ton into a single module with a lot of flexibility. Solves my "I need more LFOs, oh except when I need an envelope, oh except I really need a VCA/mixer..." problem in one module, plus other crazy things. I intentionally opted not to change the layout in the link above but I think I'll mess around with what maths can replace in a copy of the above and go from there. It looks like there might be an emulation or something similar enough to Maths in VCV that might help me "get it" a bit more.
Also turns out, duh, I was just reading the manual! I thought that's what you meant but the supplement, and duh, I feel silly now. I found the actual one and yes, that helps A LOT!
hahaha - the manual is good - but the illustrated supplement is BETTER
Thanks again Jim! You've been really helpful along my newbie modular journey!
-- m00dawg
it's a pleasure to help - especially when it's so well appreciated!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
OK, I looked at the most recent iteration of this, and figured I could do better. After all, those B. 100M modules are honkin' big, and there's definitely ways to make better use of the cab space by adding more functionality by scaling some module sizes back. This take actually includes ALL of the functions you had...and a few new wrinkles.
Hoo boy...
Top row: A Konstant Labs PWRchekr is first...this lets you keep an eye on your DC rail performance. After that, I dropped in a Doepfer A-119 so that you not only have an external input, that input can also send envelope curves and gates generated by the incoming audio. Then the Plaits, as before...but all of the rest of the VCOs got yanked in deference to a pair of Klavis Twin Waves' present version. This is because the Twin Waves not only has two VCOs under the same panel, it can internally quantize incoming CVs. They're a little more akin to complex VCOs than just plain-jane single VCOs. And for more oscillator fun, I added a Joranalogue Fold 6 so further CV-able waveform mangling can be done. Then you've got a Veils for four VCAs to control oscillator and external audio levels prior to the filters. As for those, yep, there's a pair of SSM clones...albeit 2 hp smaller each. But next is something much more crazed...WMD's SCLPL, which is a five-band resonant stereo equalizer which also has the ability to morph between user-definable presets, of which there's nine. Then you've got Omsonic's Universal Panner, which gives you six inputs with unity gain and user-controllable spatialization. Then, now that your signal is in stereo, there's a Happy Nerding FX Aid XL...same Spin FV-1 chip as the Erica, but way smaller. Then out of that is your stereo out via a Happy Nerding Isolator, which can help a lot with noise and ground-loop issues, gives you a ganged stereo level control, and puts a pair of transformers into the audio path at the end. This means you can hit that module a little harder, and you'll get some nice transformer saturation to warm the sound up even more.
Bottom row: Your MIDI interface, followed by a buffered mult for splitting pitch CV to your VCOs. Since there's five of these now, adding this was a countermeasure against voltage sag. Next, your noise, random, and sample and hold, plus a track and hold function if desired. Then there's a pair of Voltatone LFOs with full CV control and a few other tricks, and this is followed by the usefulness that IS Maths. Following the Maths, you've got a 3xVCA from Happy Nerding and a 4ms SISM, which is a complex module for various sorts of modulation mixing and alterations. Then the EGs...Intellijel's Quadrax/Qx offers four loopable or cascadeable AR envelopes...another one of those ridiculously useful mod sources. And last, a Doepfer dual ADSR with some voltage control tricks as well.
Now, this really hits home. By eliminating the oversized B. modules and multi-functioning some aspects, you still have what you had, PLUS more. Much more controllable, too. The big drawback is the price, which has gone up by $1300...but you definitely get what you pay for with these improvements.
well don't buy modules that don't make you happy - wait a while and find the ones that do and buy them instead!!!
Haha yes indeed! To clarify, I think the Neutron seems pretty awesome! It's kind of angry (though I've heard nice flowy things with it too) and my other things don't quite have that kind of anger. It's more B's questionable ethics. One can kinda dance around that some given that the Neutron was built by the synth folks that B acquired? I'm personally not bothered by B making clones of old synths where the patents expired (tons of VSTs do this after all). But there's been a few blatant ripoffs of current products that give me pause. I know some question the quality but I've never had a B piece of equipment go bad on me personally and I've used several, though in terms of quality, there have to be some concessions. One thing I know for at least some synths is the copious use of surface-mount parts - so not easy to repair.
hahaha - the manual is good - but the illustrated supplement is BETTER
Yeah this plus the other panel I found really helped me figure out a lot more about how it works, and yeah I see why it's very popular! Mutable's Stages also caught my eye while looking at Maths as well. Not the same thing but neat to see how flexible some of these modules can really be.
it's a pleasure to help - especially when it's so well appreciated!
Yes indeed so very much appreciated! Really helped me figure out things and avoid some mistakes!
In reply to Lugia:
OK, I looked at the most recent iteration of this, and figured I could do better. After all, those B. 100M modules are honkin' big, and there's definitely ways to make better use of the cab space by adding more functionality by scaling some module sizes back. This take actually includes ALL of the functions you had...and a few new wrinkles.
Hoo boy...
My goodness that is a work of art! Thank you so much! I had no idea some of those modules were even a thing! The S&H in particular I was having a hard time with as I couldn't find one (other than the large B) with built in noise. Heck I even looked at Doepfer so not sure how I missed that!
Explanation is wonderful too! Thank you! I'll have to slowly make my way through all those. So much cool stuff in there, thanks for running through it all too! That power 1HP thing is super neat and I didn't think about ground lift but yeah that could end up being really helpful (especially if I end up putting it opposite my current synths and conventional rack). Such a really cool thing for you to do! I couldn't help but share that with the Mrs but, of course, she asked "how much" and I showed here the price and she just laughed and walked away haha so....well I might have to build that thing over time surely :)
Thanks to you both! Really looking forward to it all!
I think you'll especially dig that SCLPL in this sort of build. Since it's stereo, just send the SSM VCFs on to its left and right, and you'll have timbral morphing tricks for days while still maintaining that creamy SSM sound. My Kawai K3 uses those, so I know full-well how someone can get hooked on that particular sound.
