Two racks - feedback please

I got some helpful advice last time I was here, and I am hoping to get some more on my new setups...

1) I have now collected the Dreadbox Chromatic set, and was hoping someone could confirm that I have it in a usable order :)

2) The other question relates to this mashup set. I have some space in it that I plan to fill as modules become available, but wanted to get some advice as to whether my choices are good ones.

I was thinking the following: Intellijel Designs Audio Interface II, Doepfer A-135-2 and something else (8hp left I think).

Ideally, I'd like my second set to be a relatively complete system in its own right, but I don't mind if it plugs some holes from the Dreadbox set instead, or gives me some extra firepower where needed. (please note that all of the modules in the two sets are already owned by me, so I'd rather use them all!)

Grateful for any advice I can get from those with much more experience. Thanks!

EDITED Jul 20th 2022, 12:56

for the first case - as long as your cables are long enough (and they don't need to be that long) then it'll be fine...

a quad cascading vca - I'd buy a veils if you can - is a great idea!

why do you think you want an audio interface module?

Thanks, the Veils is a nice looking module, and it is hard to have too many VCAs...

I was thinking that the AI module would be useful as I plan to run guitar, soft and hard synths into my modular (1/4 to 1/4 makes that easiest), and running the modular through pedals. Also, perhaps, running back through a DI box, once I've mapped out a path.

That being what it is, is the AI module overkill? I've been wondering that myself... I already have two AIs (4i4 and Quantum 2626), so I am not sure it is needed?

Maybe another VCO instead?

the Audio Interface module does not replace your computer audio interface(s), it's just a way of amplifying line level to modular level and attenuating modular level to line level - you may or may not need attenuation at all - a lot of audio interfaces and mixers can easily handle modular levels on the way in...

the audio interface wont really help with pedals, either, instrument level is even lower and a different impedance - and you've got the guitar interface already - better to get a veils as it can amplify line level to modular level, especially if you don't need it all the time - as for guitar pedals - get a proper interface for those

I wouldn't worry too much about 1/4"/1/8" there are plenty of cables available that do that... these are mostly what I use for this

as you are a guitarist, I'd also look at some modules to enable you to use your feet to control the modular - expression pedal and foot switch interfaces - addac or doepfer, for instance

I wouldn't suggest another vco - you have 3 already... that's enough for this amount of hp imo... see my signature for some useful advice on how to get the most versatility for the least cash...

EDITED Jul 20th 2022, 13:12

Great, thanks! I will not bother with the AI for this build, nor worry about adding another VCO. I'll also have a look at some expression pedals.

I do have a couple of 1/4 to 1/8 cables - I use them between my mixer and AI. The thickness of the cables bothers me, as I am more used to thicker cables :D

Two quick questions, if you don't mind...

1) when would an AI module be useful?

2) can you recommend any interface modules for pedals?

Thanks again!

Great, thanks! I will not bother with the AI for this build, nor worry about adding another VCO. I'll also have a look at some expression pedals.

addac do a dual expression pedal interface...

I do have a couple of 1/4 to 1/8 cables - I use them between my mixer and AI. The thickness of the cables bothers me, as I am more used to thicker cables :D

yes some can be very thin and plasticy - you can get slightly thicker ones too usually a bit more rubbery like standard guitar cables - I prefer these ones

Two quick questions, if you don't mind...

1) when would an AI module be useful?

Input modules - if you are always using inputs and want to free up other amplification channels...

Output modules - if you get digital clipping when using an audio interface and regular attenuators are not doing the trick / if you are going to play live a lot and need balanced outputs / if you need balanced/isolated outputs because there is noise introduced by the mains power

2) can you recommend any interface modules for pedals?

AI Synthesis, Doepfer, addac, alm sbg

Great, thanks! I will not bother with the AI for this build, nor worry about adding another VCO. I'll also have a look at some expression pedals.

My suggestion for the pedals themselves would be these: https://www.amazon.com/Sonicake-Vexpress-Passive-Expression-Effects/dp/B077PVVC38/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2WEX4FP0MNCKW&keywords=sonicake&qid=1658450499&sprefix=sonicake%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-6 I got one of these during the epic bout of pedal acquisition, figuring it was decent enough to use with my lap steel. Boy, was I surprised! It's built really well, takes up much less pedalboard space than the usual expression pedals, and it sounds smooth as silk...no weird pot jumps or crackles, and yes, it's all metal. No plastic case for these. But the killer thing is the price: $40!

Yeah, yeah...I know, Chinese pedal. Just try it.

1) when would an AI module be useful?

Input modules - if you are always using inputs and want to free up other amplification channels...

-- JimHowell1970

Also, it's generally a good idea to get an external audio input module that has an envelope follower. With that, you not only can preamp your instrument levels, but you can have a threshold-dependent gate output (comparator, basically) and the all-important EF itself, which extracts level information from your external signal and turns that into a CV signal for modulating all sorts of things. However, I think the Intellijel version is sort of lacking inasmuch as you've got both the input AND output on the same module, and that'll have a higher potential for cable snarling right around your build's I/O. Instead, use separate input and output modules, and I strongly suggest putting the input (I recommend the Doepfer A-119, actually) at the end of your oscillators, and treating it just like any old audio signal source (albeit with the added EF and comparator).

And then there's that Sonicsmith module that contains a pitch to voltage converter. P-V converters can be very fussy and troublesome (and WILL NOT put up with chords...monophonic lines ONLY), but if you were using something that's not a guitar (winds, f'rinstance). This was a huge part of the failure of Korg's X-911 "guitar synthesizer"...people couldn't wrap their heads around not being able to play chords, and when you do that with the X-911, the glitching becomes EPIC. But c. 1980...mmmm, not so much.

Thanks for the info, Jim.

I am going to buy the Doepfer A-138d, but wonder if I should buy the Addac 301B in addition. I get the sense that they will both be useful. Thoughts?

I like the wet/dry dial on the ALM SBG, but the 1/4 jack just speak to me a bit more :)

Aside from that, the Veils module looks like a winner. I have a software version of it somewhere, but the physical one still seems worthwhile. I'd always planned to pick up the set of Mutable modules, when finances permitted.

I should be able to run my soft synths from my AI into the A-138d in my modular setup, shouldn't I? If not, what is the best route, as I have yet to try connecting them.

Lugia, thanks.

I actually have the A-119, so it is good to hear that it is a worthwhile module! I am thinking that the A-119 as my guitar input and the A-138d for my pedals should be compliamentary. And I am going to try out that pedal. For $40 it is worth a shot!

If/when I get around to putting more I/O modules into my setup (as it grows), I'll remember your advice on having them separate. I was attracted to having them all in one module for space/efficiency, but will now consider just an output.

Thanks for the info, Jim.

I am going to buy the Doepfer A-138d, but wonder if I should buy the Addac 301B in addition. I get the sense that they will both be useful. Thoughts?

yes the a-138d for effects pedal interface, the addac 301b for expression pedal interface (which will allow you to control the modular with your foot!)

I like the wet/dry dial on the ALM SBG, but the 1/4 jack just speak to me a bit more :)

Aside from that, the Veils module looks like a winner. I have a software version of it somewhere, but the physical one still seems worthwhile. I'd always planned to pick up the set of Mutable modules, when finances permitted.

good luck and hurry up - new ones are getting more and more difficult to find!!!

I should be able to run my soft synths from my AI into the A-138d in my modular setup, shouldn't I? If not, what is the best route, as I have yet to try connecting them.

maybe - but a lot of soft synths really want stereo inputs - depending on your audio interface... spare channels etc etc

veils will amplify up to 4 channels - but then you don't get to use it as a vca - consider a dedicated stereo (or more) audio input or amplifier if you are doing this a lot

I actually have the A-119, so it is good to hear that it is a worthwhile module! I am thinking that the A-119 as my guitar input and the A-138d for my pedals should be compliamentary. And I am going to try out that pedal. For $40 it is worth a shot!

this is what I have (plus a strymon aa.1) and they are definitely complimentary

the pedal @Lugia mentioned is great for plugging into the addac 301b though, as it's an expression pedals - I use old roland/boss ones - as I had them lying around

If/when I get around to putting more I/O modules into my setup (as it grows), I'll remember your advice on having them separate. I was attracted to having them all in one module for space/efficiency, but will now consider just an output.
-- cj18

this kind of also applies to all things in modular - better to have a single module do a single thing as much as possible!!

Thanks for all of the really useful advice. I will keep in mind the 'one module for one purpose' rule!

Perhaps a Doepfer A-138s as a stereo input for soft synths? They are a good price at the moment.

EDIT: actually, it appears that I'd need an Expert Sleepers module. Is that correct? I can send cv from my Presonus Q2626, but it seems that I'd need as ES module to receive it?

This is getting confusing...

EDITED Jul 22nd 2022, 05:42

Perhaps a Doepfer A-138s as a stereo input for soft synths? They are a good price at the moment.

no, it's not an amplifier... possibly this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/doepfer-a-183-3

EDIT: actually, it appears that I'd need an Expert Sleepers module. Is that correct? I can send cv from my Presonus Q2626, but it seems that I'd need as ES module to receive it?

no you don't need a ES module to receive it... check the voltage range though! you might want to amplify...

which DAW are you using?

Ok, great! The A-183-3 fits into the space that I have available, which is a good sign. My rack now looks like this:

EDIT: it keeps showing the old pic only, so I had to break the link:

https://www.modulargrid net/e/racks/view/1766572

I have to say, it feels a lot better than it did before. I better understand the purpose of each modules in there now.

In my searching, I also came across the ADDAC 200PI. How does that compare to the Doepfer A-138D? I am guessing that the 138D is the better option, with the attenuation and amp, versus simply having two loops available.

As for DAWs, I primarily use either Reaper or Studio One, but also have the light versions of Ableton and Bitwig.

EDITED Jul 22nd 2022, 13:04

Ok, great! The A-183-3 fits into the space that I have available, which is a good sign. My rack now looks like this:

nb it looks like that works to me but I have no experience of it - 4 * gain from line level should work ok, you might want to do some further research - please report back...

I have to say, it feels a lot better than it did before. I better understand the purpose of each modules in there now.

good that's an important step...

In my searching, I also came across the ADDAC 200PI. How does that compare to the Doepfer A-138D? I am guessing that the 138D is the better option, with the attenuation and amp, versus simply having two loops available.

you also get crossfading with the a-138d
the 200pi will just do a basic modular to instrument (pedal) level and back
so it's a toss-up - crossfading and gain control vs 2 channels and external gain control (if needed) either from pedals or in rack

As for DAWs, I primarily use either Reaper or Studio One, but also have the light versions of Ableton and Bitwig.
-- cj18

ok bitwig handles cv natively I think, not so sure about the others - I know the full on studio version of Ableton does, but is expensive - which is why I got Logic instead (mostly just use it as a tape recorder and mixdown, but also wanted video in DAW for scoring to picture) - otherwise there are plugins - including vcv rack, that will work with the cv outs of your audio interface

I'll let you know how it all comes together. I am not too worried if things aren't perfect first go. I'll just pull the unhappy module out and stick it somewhere else in the future.

In the same vein, I'll go with the A-138D, and pick up something with two channels if I need it down the track. I'm in no particular rush.

With regard to DAWs, it looks like Bitwig might be the best option (that I currently own). Otherwise I might need to buy something like Silent Way for use in VCV. I also have Cherry Audio's Voltage Modular and Softube's Modular - maybe they work? I'd have to take a look.

So, I bought the Veils module, along with the A-138D and A-183-3.

I am holding off on the ADDAC modules (I am considering both) until I can find them at a better price/availability. They were my lowest priority in this build anyway.

I found a good price on the Doepfer A-111-5 while looking around, so I picked up one of those up for a bit of fun :)

Now I need a 9u case... :D

With regard to DAWs, it looks like Bitwig might be the best option (that I currently own). Otherwise I might need to buy something like Silent Way for use in VCV. I also have Cherry Audio's Voltage Modular and Softube's Modular - maybe they work? I'd have to take a look.
-- cj18

you don't need silent way for vcv rack - cv is native - just connect to appropriate audio interface...

So, I bought the Veils module, along with the A-138D and A-183-3.

good call...

I am holding off on the ADDAC modules (I am considering both) until I can find them at a better price/availability. They were my lowest priority in this build anyway.

where are you looking for addac modules? I think the best way unless you are buying DIY modules, is buying direct from addax themselves - I've never seen that much stock of there's in dealers...

I found a good price on the Doepfer A-111-5 while looking around, so I picked up one of those up for a bit of fun :)

have fun...

Now I need a 9u case... :D
-- cj18

yes and keep the unused cases for when you need them in the future...