how to get dimensional patches? --> your fav techniques, patches, modules?

Hi folks,

I'm about 2 years into modular, with many other years in music and VST synthesis. Enjoying modular a lot!

I'm finding a lot of my modular patches are "flatter" than I would like -- they are 1-2 dimensional, and not as fluid, bouncy, dynamic, juicy etc. as patches I hear from Heinbach, Divkid and other power-users with videos online. I have plenty of modular gear at this point, so "not enough gear" can't really be the problem. I'm guessing either i) my approach to modular is somewhat stuck in VST based thinking and experience ii) I haven't picked up enough modular-specific techniques and patches iii) or simply more modular soak / practice time is required. Practically, I imagine I'm probably underutilizing CV and CV mashup/mixing.

That being the case, I wanted to pick your brains for favorite techniques, patches, (and to a lesser extent) modules that you love for getting a modular system to give that multi-dimensional, (broadly) dynamic sonic response we associate with a good modular system being played by a strong modular synthesist. Any suggestions of i) specific techniques or patch types ii) great videos or books on this iii) key modules you use for this?

Thanks!

Nicholas

... returning a few hours later, after managing to get in a good session on the modular rig tonight, here are a few reflections:

I) I often have a pretty short device chain, not a lot between OSC and line out. Partly this is because I love OSCs and like to focus on exploring the depth of the ones I have.
II) BUT as a result of (I), I often don't have a lot of modulation destinations. I can see how adding more devices post OSC then adds more mod destinations and adds dimension to the "wavespace" I'm creating gestures through.
III) net net, I'm probably "chronically undermodulating," and when I do apply modulation, maybe I'm using too many sources with too much gain. Maybe more mod destinations, fewer mod sources, more carefully trimmed mod settings would be a good rule of thumb for my patches for the near future.

Reminds me of earlier times doing sound design on VSTs or fixed hardware, I thought "I should look at patches I really like, count the # of modulation sources, # of modulation destinations, and get a sense of the median modulation depth..." something like that. Probably would still be a useful exercise for me to spend a bit of time on.

Reflections above notwithstanding, I'll be interested to hear any suggestions (in response to the original post above) that you might have, thanks!

so Nick, the answer is - better patching technique AND more modules!!

it's all there in my signature

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

how to get the most out of your modular for the least cash - plain to see and easy to understand, but unfortunately also often ignored...

a matrix mixer is a great addition to any modular system - relatively inexpensive, if you buy something like the doepfer - which will take 4 modulation sources as inputs and spit out 4 more related (and possibly/hopefully attenuated) more modulation sources

a bank of attenuators (and/or attenuverters) is a near necessity to reduce the travel of modulation sources

lots of vcas are useful to modulate those modulation sources

for those extra modulation sources to be useful you need modulation inputs (both on sound sources and sound modifiers)

Hi Jim, thanks for the note.

In my big studio rig, I do have a bunch of relevant scale/offset/mix utilities: Maths, Sum*Diff, SISM, Levit8, Doepfer A 1-38m Matrix Mixer, and 12 lanes of VCA (3 quads). I also have plenty of CV sources from standard envelopes, LFOs and sequencers through chaos and random. Your tagline of "sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities" I've tried to keep in mind for my modules --> but I probably haven't kept it in mind for all my actual patches!

So I'm probably vastly under-utilizing my existing scale/offset/mix utilities --> my current guess I should press my upcoming patching to have i) a lot more modulation targets and ii) nearly all mod signals "dialed in" or restrained via attenuate / offset / mix.

I think one challenge I've had on this point so far is not having a great sense "what good looks / sounds like" in terms of #s, balance and specific patching techniques for modulators + utilities in Eurorack patches.

Thanks for the ideas folks!

Nicholas

Hi Jim, thanks for the note.

NP

In my big studio rig, I do have a bunch of relevant scale/offset/mix utilities: Maths, Sum*Diff, SISM, Levit8, Doepfer A 1-38m Matrix Mixer, and 12 lanes of VCA (3 quads). I also have plenty of CV sources from standard envelopes, LFOs and sequencers through chaos and random. Your tagline of "sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities" I've tried to keep in mind for my modules --> but I probably haven't kept it in mind for all my actual patches!

It's more important to have them there for when you need them as opposed to using them all the time... I have loads of modules I don't use in every patch...

So I'm probably vastly under-utilizing my existing scale/offset/mix utilities --> my current guess I should press my upcoming patching to have i) a lot more modulation targets and ii) nearly all mod signals "dialed in" or restrained via attenuate / offset / mix.

sounds like a plan!!

I think one challenge I've had on this point so far is not having a great sense "what good looks / sounds like" in terms of #s, balance and specific patching techniques for modulators + utilities in Eurorack patches.

I think the biggest challenge is finding what works for you and not what works for other people - experimentation is the key - not 'specific techniques for patching modulation + utilities in Eurorack patches'

Hi Nickgreenberg,

Regarding your point i) Are you using filters or do you have enough variation of filters you can choose from when using your oscillators? I couldn't live without a bunch of filters to choose from when I do a patch.

Good luck and kind regards, Garfield.

@Jim: "I think the biggest challenge is finding what works for you and not what works for other people - experimentation is the key - not 'specific techniques for patching modulation + utilities in Eurorack patches" --> nicely said. Modular has taught me a lot about "groping and listening my way through" sound design; in fact a great boon of modular is that it absolutely forces experimentation. A lot of my earlier VST time was cursed with "nail that patch I'm hearing somewhere" vs. playfully getting to know the ins, outs and quirks of a particular instrument. Howard Scarr can nail patches, do the Batman scores, write the Virus programming handbook and the Bazille Cookbook, but I still have to grub my way around hearing and understanding the building blocks of sound design (though Rob Papen's fabulous "4 Element Synth" helped get me past ground zero).

@Garfield, good question, yes I have a bunch of filters (and waveshapers) but I'm probably underutilizing those too. The more of this thread I write and read, the more it occurs to me a lot of my time on modular is focused on really exploring 1-2 modules at a time (which is all well and good), and pretty rarely am I focussed on building a robust signal chain that has a chance of having good sonic depth, interest, movement, etc., while still being a good "role player" and fitting into a reasonable mix.

Net net, this is helping me shift mindsets a bit from "OMG there's still stuff I don't know about this module I've got to focus on it more" to "make sure to spend a good chunk of making a nice and full sounding patched instrument, and enjoy getting to know modules a bit better along the way."

... AND while we're talking filters, I have to give a shout out to my latest addition, Jolin Agogo (Octal LPG). Sounds really good and it's great to have 8 LPGs in a small package!

Happily, all this leaves me really jonesing to get back in front of my modular rig -- need to wrap up my work for the day and leave some patching time before bed!

Thanks for the ideas and encouragement guys, cheers!

@Jim: "I think the biggest challenge is finding what works for you and not what works for other people - experimentation is the key - not 'specific techniques for patching modulation + utilities in Eurorack patches" --> nicely said. Modular has taught me a lot about "groping and listening my way through" sound design; in fact a great boon of modular is that it absolutely forces experimentation. A lot of my earlier VST time was cursed with "nail that patch I'm hearing somewhere" vs. playfully getting to know the ins, outs and quirks of a particular instrument. Howard Scarr can nail patches, do the Batman scores, write the Virus programming handbook and the Bazille Cookbook, but I still have to grub my way around hearing and understanding the building blocks of sound design (though Rob Papen's fabulous "4 Element Synth" helped get me past ground zero).

yeah I kind of understand this - I've got a virus kb and apart from randomly twiddling knobs to 'change' presets I never really understood it - building some REs for Reason (which I never ended up releasing) kind of helped - as did, to some extent, reading the sound on sound synth secrets series of articles (these might help you too - easily findable online)- but nothing helped like physically patching a modular - not that I try to create synthesized versions of any real instruments in any way (other than using things like rings - which kind of do it for you)

@Garfield, good question, yes I have a bunch of filters (and waveshapers) but I'm probably underutilizing those too. The more of this thread I write and read, the more it occurs to me a lot of my time on modular is focused on really exploring 1-2 modules at a time (which is all well and good), and pretty rarely am I focussed on building a robust signal chain that has a chance of having good sonic depth, interest, movement, etc., while still being a good "role player" and fitting into a reasonable mix.

Net net, this is helping me shift mindsets a bit from "OMG there's still stuff I don't know about this module I've got to focus on it more" to "make sure to spend a good chunk of making a nice and full sounding patched instrument, and enjoy getting to know modules a bit better along the way."

... AND while we're talking filters, I have to give a shout out to my latest addition, Jolin Agogo (Octal LPG). Sounds really good and it's great to have 8 LPGs in a small package!

Happily, all this leaves me really jonesing to get back in front of my modular rig -- need to wrap up my work for the day and leave some patching time before bed!

sounds like a plan!!!

I'm excited to try out the Looking Glass matrix mixer/switch from Frequency Central - especially the simultaneous inverted outputs. I like putting reverbs in the middle of chains and modulating them and with something like this mixer giving you two versions of the same modulation immediately, sounds like they'll be lots of dimension to be had. Not to mention the possibilities with modulating cycling A/Ds...
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/frequency-central-looking-glass

Hey,

Here are some basic things to try:

1. Use two VCOs, or a module with two or more voices (Castor & Pollux or Doepfer's Quad VCO have this ability), and detune them from each other slightly to create a larger chorus sound. Patch each one to one separate side of a stereo output. Pan one just 3/4 left and the other 3/4 right. You really don't want to go hard left and right...you still need a little of each channel's audio to fill in the center. That makes for a much larger sound. Next, try the same thing with a single VCO, splitting the VCO output with a stacker cable or a mult and run the outputs to left and right that way. You may get some unexpected phasing results. Try it and listen!

2. Use one VCO to modulate another. Choose one VCO as your "primary" and a second as your modulator. Patch the output of any wave shape of the modulator VCO into any CV input on your primary (try V/Oct first, and then experiment with other inputs like FM, PWM or Sync, etc.). Now, adjust the frequency control of your modulator VCO to get some good FM sounds. This is pretty much the same as using an LFO, except that your modulation source is in the audio range. If you use a square wave or pulse wave, you'll get some interesting pinging effects. Route the pings through a bucket brigade or tape delay and adjust the timing and feedback levels to achieve some fun polyrhythms!

3. Using an LFO is a very basic function. Just like in #2 above, patch the output of an LFO into your VCO. Another cool trick is splitting the signal of an LFO and running half into your VCO and other other half into an inverter or attenuverter like Maths or Mutable Instruments Blinds. Then patch the attenuverter output back into the VCO and play with the modulation rate on Maths to see if you can get the VCO's output to "chase" itself. If you find the sweet spot, the VCO can almost ring itself at the crossover point (depends on the VCO's Q values, usually set by the electronic components). You need Math's movement for this to really work well.

If you want less drone and to control it with a keyboard, then patch in an envelope so you can use your keyboard (or beat pads or a sequencer or whatever) to control pitch and gating. If you do it this way, be sure to also run a cable from your gate control to the reset input on your LFO so that each gate opening starts the LFO cycle from the beginning (better control of the output sound).

Those things should get you off and experimenting with other ways to use oscillators as modulators! Try this with filters, too. Anything that outputs a voltage can be used as a modulator. The limits are up to your imagination! I always find that just plugging something into something else is a great way to learn more about modular.

I don't think one needs to dive deep into a single module to be able to understand modular. One does, however, need to understand the important parts of a "voice" (VCO --> VCF --> (EG) --> VCA --> OUTPUT) so that you can then know where to adjust and insert and modulate. I recommend working on building a voice first, using whatever modules you have, and then start adjusting and plying just by inserting movement CV (Maths, any clocks, LFOs, other VCOs) into your patch to see what changes are made.

Have fun! Keep asking questions!

EDITED Nov 18th 2022, 02:27