Can someone recommend where I should take my Eurorack.
In two minds to fill the rest of the HP with Drum modules/seq clock divider or Purchase a 4MS PEG and try to max out the synthesis possibilities, any thoughts?
Well if you have few HP and you want lot's of synthesis possibilities I'd suggest Braids hands down. It also comes with some basic Drum possibilities as well. Warps has a lot of options especially with the new Parasite :)
With Peaks and Maths you seem covered with envelopes to me. Why do you want a PEG?
Thank you I have looked at braids and sounds great but was thinking more only the lines of modulation and sound sculpting/rhythms...
I think a lot of people have been at a similar crossroads; to specialize in just non-rhythm synthesis or go jack of all trades groovebox. However every time I eyeball the mutant machine or jupiter storm I remember that I own an Octatrack and my rack has MIDI clock/trig in.....
Given that you have about 30-40 HP left, I guess what you have to decide is: can you fit enough rhythmic firepower in that space to be satisfied?
It depends on what you want. If you can be happy with a few Tiptop 808/909 modules and a trigger sequencer like this not yet out one or this then maybe go for it. Just know your rhythm section isn't going to be Mike Portnoy's Siamese Monster, and that is totally fine if that's what you're looking for.
If that is too much of a compromise, save up for some kind of standalone drum machine and build out your rack. You've got lots of good price points here from the Volca Beats to MFB's new stuff and seriously dangerous gear like Tempest and many of the Elektron boxes (my favorites).
These are just hands-on hardware options that seem good to me too, I'd urge you to do your own research. Remember you'd need some kind of MIDI clock/trig IN module if your box doesn't send CV/Clock signals out so your drum box can sync with your rack.
Also, I'm not sure why'd you want more envelopes either, but you're spot on with needing a clock divider for rhythm.
I think a lot of people have been at a similar crossroads; to specialize in just non-rhythm synthesis or go jack of all trades groovebox. However every time I eyeball the mutant machine or jupiter storm I remember that I own an Octatrack and my rack has MIDI clock/trig in.....
Given that you have about 30-40 HP left, I guess what you have to decide is: can you fit enough rhythmic firepower in that space to be satisfied?
It depends on what you want. If you can be happy with a few Tiptop 808/909 modules and a trigger sequencer like this not yet out one or this then maybe go for it. Just know your rhythm section isn't going to be Mike Portnoy's Siamese Monster, and that is totally fine if that's what you're looking for.
If that is too much of a compromise, save up for some kind of standalone drum machine and build out your rack. You've got lots of good price points here from the Volca Beats to MFB's new stuff and seriously dangerous gear like Tempest and many of the Elektron boxes (my favorites).
These are just hands-on hardware options that seem good to me too, I'd urge you to do your own research. Remember you'd need some kind of MIDI clock/trig IN module if your box doesn't send CV/Clock signals out so your drum box can sync with your rack.
Also, I'm not sure why'd you want more envelopes either, but you're spot on with needing a clock divider for rhythm.
-- starkwether
Thanks for your detailed reply. I am new to this so don't really know what I am doing!?!?
Just received my PEG maybe a mistake but found Maths to be very confusing and thought the PEG looked easier to generate synced movement, (have read it pairs well with maths)
I really bought peaks for drum duties...and have old synths 808/909 but love the rhythmical patterns heard in modular, could you recommend me something to prevent me doubling up on further module errors?
Hi sorry for not replying (I'm a derp), I don't mind giving you some more input at all!
WARNING Unending wall of text:
You are getting a constant tone from Braids and AC because the are oscillators and not voices. To explain- a voice is a single discrete synthesis unit containing everything you need for a "complete" sound. Multiple voices controlled independently or together give you polyphony or overlapping leads...but buying four or more of everything gets expensive fast. Read on for a breakdown and options.
You've got a synth voice in your case already, the Atlantis. In that case, its a pre-made block module. This is good and bad. Notice its made up of all the basic building blocks of 'subtractive' synthesis: waves from oscillators are colored by a filter, then when you hit a keyboard key or a sequencer sends a gate signal, the VCA opens and closes, controlling the amplitude, AKA volume, of your oscillators so you're not droning all the time (unless you want to drone!).
However, going from 0% percent volume to 100% instantly when you hit a key, and back to 0% again is harsh and boring. So you sculpt a shape with an envelope and send it to control the smoothness of the VCA's opening and closing over time. Filter cutoff is another popular destination for envelope CV. Try other places!
To summarize: a simple (subtractive) synth voice is: OSC -> filter -> VCA modulated by ENV
So an oscillator or VCO is part of the voice, specifically the source of sound waves at a specific pitch. So if you have two oscillators in a voice, it must be polyphonic then, and can play a two note chord right? Actually....probably not. A single voice is capable of one pitch at a time by definition. Why have more than one per voice then? Because a single VCO sounds boring compared to multiple detuned ones. Its a key ingredient in making the much sought after 'fatness'.
So taking this all into account lets look at your rack and get your voices set up. I'm going to assume this is all stuff you have IRL as of this post. So to fully use Braids and AC we need more VCAs to stop them droning and envelopes to make interesting VCA trajectories. You've got some of the best complex envelopes made actually, with maths and the PEG! However that's only 3-4 envs total. You'll want a little more. Go simple this time with something like This.
OK now you need VCAs. You've got 7 envelopes, so get like 7-8 VCAs right? You'd be ok with that BUT there's a saying in modular synthesis: you can't have too many VCAs. This is because VCAs are also used to turn CV on and off, you know, like LFO modulation signals. Think about it....CV is used for modulating stuff a lot of the time. If you can control whats modulating the modulators with VCAs then you can build those huge Rube Goldberg patches that sound like electronic ecosystems. More VCAs = more organicness, so to speak.
One important thing to know when choosing VCAs and envelopes: they come in linear and exponential/logarithmic response curves. WTF does that mean? Short answer: machines process change linearly (so mainly module-to-module CV), humans process change exponentially/logarithmically. If you look at the Intellijel Quadra, there's a switch between each of the A and D knobs. You can see that it selects between what looks like a curvy shark fin and a more regular sharp triangle. The shark fin is an exponential curve and the sharp triangle is linear. So the quadra lets us choose the smoothest response for our signals per envelope, handy!
If that isn't making sense I urge you to do some of your own research, and sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know. Here's another thing to check out related to envelopes and VCAs: Vactrols and Low Pass Gates, they might interest you.
Good luck I hope this helps!
One more thing ;)
Its very useful to combine mixers, panners, crossfader, etc with your VCA into one module. I have this thing and its not my only mixer or VCA bank, but its the last thing in the chain before going to a stereo out. Voltage controlled panning is sick!
Absolutely Phenomenal reply!!! thank you for taking the time.
The Quadra is an envelope not a VCA right? I was looking a MI frames of Intellijel Linix for VCA duties would either of these work and do I need the quadra also?
Really thanks again!,
Glad to help :)
Let us break down the descriptions of Frames, Linix and Quadra but first, do you have a good understanding of envelope stages Attack, Decay, Sustain and Release (ADSR)? Its vital that you grasp of these.
Also here is a great breakdown of Maths which I did not make: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63068 , I know you were having trouble with it, no worries, its insanely deep. I'd advise tackling it later. Check out the DL-able PDF.
Here's the description of the Quadra: "Quad Envelope / Function Generator". Check out its tags and manual too.
So the Linix is a VCA mixer, cool. Let's look at the description and make sure we understand its function to avoid disappointment and wasted time. Hmm right off the bat, its described as a solely Linear VCA. Why does that matter again?
Frames is indeed a VCA but like most of Mutable's stuff its a digital Swiss Army knife loaded with alternate modes and functions. Its a bit complicated for a rack with no simple utility VCAs, IMHO. Undoubtedly a cool module, but I get the feeling you are picking these modules because they are cool and rated well, not because you understand what they do.
Since your rack has changed too, let me start from square one. You've got a really good place to start with Atlantis. Remember Atlantis is a complete pre-made voice in a box. It has all the basic building blocks of (subtractive) synthesis: Oscillator (VCO), filter (VCF), VCA and Envelope. Also the MOD or LFO section. Therefore, its the perfect thing to teach yourself why each component is important. Experimentation + Google and I am confident you'll make sense of this in no time, especially since you have made it this far.
Otherwise I'm afraid if you keep buying cool stuff without understanding it you'll end up with an empty wallet and a meh synth. Don't worry though! You can resell modules for only a little loss.
So to start, patch this:
Metropolis gate out -> Atlantis envelope gate in.
Metrop pitch out -> Atlantis VCO 1v/oct in.
Atlantis final out goes to uJack in, which goes to headphones/speakers.
A sequence running on the Metrop will now gate the Atlantis' ENVs and send pitch per step. Funky time!
You're ready to go. Do some googling and have fun with it. I think if you stick with just the Atlantis and understand it you will begin to see what your rack needs next. Read descriptions, download manuals and watch youtube and soundcloud demos! Good luck and keep asking questions when you get stuck!!!
Another blinding reply!!! keep them coming.
Thanks again for your input.
Truth be told I would like to think I know what I am doing but my knowledge of synthesis is more along the lines of 'can play,can't read Music.'
The choice of modules has been subconsciously driven by other people's ratings which in turn could be because of 'coolness' as I don't really know what they actually do so couldn't be sure if they are cool or not!
These are the main reasons for the choices being made:
1. Buy a module, discover that another module is required, see rack space, fill.
2. try and find a module that achieves maximum functionality in the smallest foot print as possible to avoid buying more modules and in turn, a bigger case.
They are probably logical reasons due to space and finance but not to synthesis, does that make sense?
I already have vintage synths,/drum machines but thought rather than buying a prophet 5/ Jupiter 8 Modular synthesis seemed like a truly 'New' way of working and getting the Atlantis was a way into eurorack.
Maybe a bad choice as it has encouraged cutting corners which otherwise may have led me to a better understanding of Modular.
Ah, I understand totally. A lot of times I work intuitively too, that's why I'm into modular and hardware in general. Being able to physically turn a knob and hear the effect instantly...software, menus and mice kill my creativity! Whether you work with your right or left hemisphere or both, do what gets you the best results!
So I think that no, you don't have to become an electrical engineer and understand how the underlying circuitry makes your sound, and you totally don't have to read sheet music. However, IMHO modular synth is building complex stuff from simple blocks and if you don't understand the function of the simple blocks, I think you're due to hit a wall.
Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know now but I'd for sure try to reverse engineer the basics of Atlantis. Then you can think: "hey Atlantis is cool but basic....I wish I had a synth voice with an oscillator that sounded like this, into a filter like that" If you're a visual learner, skip the manuals and check out channels like divkid, he's great. For sure listen to modules...people can describe in text how something sounds only so well.
So I guess if I'm like a Jazz Sax improv master, I don't care about reading music, but I have to know what all the buttons and levers on my sax do. Then I can unleash raw intuitive right hemisphere organized chaos on it, which is as much as an art form as writing classical sheet music for an orchestra. Like abstract expressionist painting vs hyper real portraits. They're both admirable and meaningful to me.
Mega Mega Mega!!!, very wise words.
I have been using the Atlantis for a few months now and it's a bit like a pimped 101. The Maths/PEG have been used to modulate the AUX inputs of the Metropolis to get sequence variations.(not sure if these modules are best used for this purpose but hey I'm learning.
DIVKID is great and have been seduced by his fantastic videos!
The one thing I will say is the video themselves can be misleading due to what isn't in the frame, giving you the impression that the module featured is producing all those tasks, similarly can be said for Richard Devine's Patches when one case is in view but 200 cables are spilling out of shot into other cases!
In principal the Atlantis (except the VCA part) is fairly logical but when attempting to build a complete synth voice it becomes more complicated due to the overwhelming volume of options out there and especially when you watch distracting videos made by the above!
Also I think the reason for acquiring specific modules changes which effects their purpose in the chain.
