ModularGrid uses so-called cookies to ensure it's so-called functionality. We also use dubious tracking scripts. Find out more in the Privacy Policy. We use cookies and wanna let you know.
So lately I've been trying to create patches with this thing solely inside the box. I understand that it's a small rack, and limited in capability in many areas. But I've seen so many videos of people who seem to be pulling much more interesting stuff out of similarly sized setups. I'm thinking of switching a few things up. But before I do that, I wanted to pick the brains of the much more experienced here and just kind of get some idea on how y'all would go about patching something up using only whats in the box here.
One of the main things that is starting to bug me, is that I feel like I've become too heavily reliant on rings, and I'm getting sick of how it sounds. Having trouble pulling more than just the stereotypical rings type sounds out of it. Surely it's capable of more interesting sounds using something I already have here? Maybe?
Also, I really want to love the SMR, but I can't really figure out a good use for it other than running the STO through it. As its own voice, I have not had much luck pulling any kind of varying timbres/sounds of it.
So I've been thinking of ditching the rings, clouds and SMR (and possibly the STO as well) and swapping in more stuff that takes up less place...any suggestions as to what I should check out? For reference, I enjoy the more uplifting, beautiful sounding ambient stuff, but lately I've had the desire to create more evil, dark sounding horror/scifi flick soundscapes. Am I missing anything crucial utility-wise for that sort of thing? Really open to general suggestions, feedback or slaps on the wrist
Apologies in advance if this question wasn't worded great, kind of having a hard time articulating what I'd like to ask but decided to just put it out there the best I could :^)
I'm sure others will chime in with great advice, but IMHO the problem here is that you just don't have enough modulation or basic utilities (a common problem round these parts), and without those patchability goes down quite a bit... and you might as well use a desktop synth. I have a set of modules I tend to recommend for that, Links, Kinks, Batumi, O/a/x2, Zadar, add a few of those and then you could probably use a distortion module or a wavefolder, maybe some of the Noise Engineering modules. If you move in that direction I think you'll find some possibilities open up and that you'll keep learning.
Have you tried using the Rings string/organ Easter egg? I use that quite a bit. Rings and Clouds were two of my first modules and truth be told, I don't really care for them that much. They're ok, but they're not very inspirational for me (especially Clouds).
One module you may want to consider is the Synthesis Technology E352 Cloud Terrarium. I wasn't immediately smitten with it but I love it now. It checks the ambient AND dark boxes for you. It's a big module though. I've been concentrating more on analog VCOs, filters, and LPGs lately, so I may not be the right person to really answer this question for you.
Looking at your rack, it looks like you would probably benefit from considerably more modulation sources (Zadar, Batumi, Quadrax, random, etc.). The 4ms SWN might fit the bill for you since it has built-in LFOs and the wavetables can do pretty or dark.
Have fun and good luck!
I'm sure others will chime in with great advice, but IMHO the problem here is that you just don't have enough modulation or basic utilities (a common problem round these parts), and without those patchability goes down quite a bit... and you might as well use a desktop synth. I have a set of modules I tend to recommend for that, Links, Kinks, Batumi, O/a/x2, Zadar, add a few of those and then you could probably use a distortion module or a wavefolder, maybe some of the Noise Engineering modules. If you move in that direction I think you'll find some possibilities open up and that you'll keep learning.
-- troux
Right on, thanks for the advice. I had thought about that at first but I figured between maths, hermod and the env outs on smr I would have had enough modulation sources for a build of this size. Maybe not....and yes now that I know a bit more I definitely want to get a wavefolder in here for sure. Any patch suggestions as is though?
Have you tried using the Rings string/organ Easter egg? I use that quite a bit. Rings and Clouds were two of my first modules and truth be told, I don't really care for them that much. They're ok, but they're not very inspirational for me (especially Clouds).
One module you may want to consider is the Synthesis Technology E352 Cloud Terrarium. I wasn't immediately smitten with it but I love it now. It checks the ambient AND dark boxes for you. It's a big module though. I've been concentrating more on analog VCOs, filters, and LPGs lately, so I may not be the right person to really answer this question for you.
Looking at your rack, it looks like you would probably benefit from considerably more modulation sources (Zadar, Batumi, Quadrax, random, etc.). The 4ms SWN might fit the bill for you since it has built-in LFOs and the wavetables can do pretty or dark.
Have fun and good luck!
-- farkas
Thank you also for the advice..I had not looked in to the E352 before, definitely like what I hear there. I'm into the idea of going in a more analog direction as well, so open to any suggestions you may have in that regard. I suppose I could swap the smr out for the swn. However I was thinking of trying to fit more smaller modules in here as opposed to swapping out for other big ones. Also yes I do use the easter egg modes on rings and I do like them, I have thought about sticking a 2hp pluck and bell in here to try and make a polyphonic karplus voice using those and rings. I'll ask you the same question, what about a patch suggestion for the rack as it stands? No pressure! Just curious...
So lately I've been trying to create patches with this thing solely inside the box. I understand that it's a small rack, and limited in capability in many areas. But I've seen so many videos of people who seem to be pulling much more interesting stuff out of similarly sized setups. I'm thinking of switching a few things up. But before I do that, I wanted to pick the brains of the much more experienced here and just kind of get some idea on how y'all would go about patching something up using only whats in the box here.
-- enlargedgarbage
Actually, I wouldn't...at least, not without some significant changes. The most likely reason why others are getting more out of their similarly-sized builds is because those contain the proper "utility" modules alongside these others. Without those, you're drastically limiting what the main modules are capable of.
The other issue here is that you've opted to put a bunch of very large modules into a small box. This never ends well. Invariably, the utility modules and other little boring-looking widgets get crowded out by the big "sexy" stuff, usually because...well, utilities are boring, they lack lots of lights and such, so they're generally the first to (incorrectly!) go. On the other hand, I'm NOT advocating that you should jam a bunch of 4 hp and down modules in here. But you've also noticed that this is a problem, apparently, since you're opting for chucking some of these. Hm.....
OK...what I opted to do here is to follow your ideas of what needed removing, then I went further and rethought how the degree of functionality could be upped to the level where you've got a REAL laptop troublemaker. And this is that, I think...
Many things got changed, partly to avoid leaving out various utilities, but also to shrink/alter a few things so that there's more going on. Plus, I added an external processing bit so that, if you're feeling like adding some external creepy noises and then screwing with them, you can. So let's start there...Doepfer A-119 + a Happy Nerding TriTone parametric EQ with CV control. You can send things into the synth with this, extract envelopes and gates from the audio signal, and then mess with this timbrally via the EQ. Grabbing a contact mic would be recommended, also.
After that, we get into the synthesis section...the first thing there is a Cavisynth Bufflide, a buffered mult (needed now) plus a slew limiter for portamento effects. Then the big bank of VCOs, courtesy of a Doepfer A-111-4 Quad VCO. Four VCOs is nice, especially if they're matched so that you can do some neat detunings. But I wasn't content with that, so next to it is an Antimatter Crossfold. This is a very interesting waveshaper/folder/combiner module that can take TWO oscillator outputs and more or less slam 'em into each other for radical timbre changes before you even get to the VCF. Right after this is a little 4-in mixer to sum the VCOs/Crossfold down to send to the VCF.
The VCF here is a very versatile, complex one...Xaoc's Belgrad. This thing loves external modulation, has lots of different modes, and can do vocal formants and some odd crossmod and internal feedback, in addition to being a dual-peak multimode VCF. But I wasn't content with JUST that, so for some percussive sounds I put in a Make Noise Optomix, which gives you a pair of lowpass gates. These can be fed by the noise generator for electronic percussion sounds, or you can process most any other audio source with these, plus they sum down to a single output if that works for a given situation.
I put in a Codex Modulex clone of Veils next so that you can actually have a degree of VCA control over audio levels going into the Doepfer A-138s. Then the audio path actually moves down to the Mimeophon (replacing the Morphagene, which loses a bit of functionality but which allows for more space) and the uBurst (replaces the fullsized Clouds clone) before it goes to the Happy Nerding Isolator for a stereo output level + transformer isolation. The nice thing about that, also, is that you can overdrive the transformers for some extra warmth. The idea here, though, is that these three modules are after the A-138s above them, and you can control the balance between effect and dry via the wet-dry controls on the modules themselves.
Bottom row: added a Doepfer A-118-2 so that you now have a noise source, plus a random voltage source and a sample and hold. I left the Maths (why not, right?), then added another little Doepfer module with four free-run LFOs. And right after it, there's a Tenderfoot attenuverter/mixer that allows you to break out each attenuverter, if needed. But the next thing is just nuts...
That next thing is an After Later BLEND, which is just nuts, really. It's a dual VCA, but it also contains a minimum/maximum discriminator and a comparator, all of which has plenty of abuse potential. Then, envelopes...I opted here for an Intelljel Quadrax with its Qx expander, which gives you four AR, or ASR, or looping envelopes with several shapes, plus the Qx allows these to be chained in different ways to add yet another complex modulation source.
Now, you'll notice that most of what WAS there now ISN'T. And a lot of that comes down to those modules being just too damned BIG. Especially in a 2 x 84 cab. With a situation like that, it's necessary to squeeze things majorly in order to get everything needed in there, to say nothing of trying to add functionality. I also got rid of some things that were rather unnecessary, such as the Strymon AA. But the major thing that was removed, and which I had some misgivings about removing, was the Hermod. I really did NOT want that out of there, but it's such a huge honker that if I was going to set up any sort of workable modulation chain, it needed removal. My suggestion with it would be to either put it into a powered 4ms Pod of an appropriate size, or consider going to a different outboard multichannel sequencer, or perhaps even a sequencer/controller combo such as an Arturia Keystep Pro.
Now, if this were in a 2 x 104 cab, things would be rather different in what could stay and what would have to go. That might allow the Hermod back in, allow the Morphagene instead of the Mimeophon, etc. But I'd still strongly recommend eliminating the Clouds clone in favor of the uBurst and adding the u4xVCA instead of a Veils because the space saved here would still be useful for other things. And as for the Quad VCO, the Doepfer VCOs might be a little basic-sounding, but with the Crossfold plus the Belgrad, they won't sound basic at all. And you get an external in with some CVable timbral control so that you can mic up acoustic sources. Like I mentioned earlier, these things are excellent with contact mics, and you'll be surprised at just what creepy and weird sounds are lurking right at hand, all ready to be fed into this thing. Lots of possibilities here now...
So lately I've been trying to create patches with this thing solely inside the box. I understand that it's a small rack, and limited in capability in many areas. But I've seen so many videos of people who seem to be pulling much more interesting stuff out of similarly sized setups. I'm thinking of switching a few things up. But before I do that, I wanted to pick the brains of the much more experienced here and just kind of get some idea on how y'all would go about patching something up using only whats in the box here.
-- enlargedgarbage
Actually, I wouldn't...at least, not without some significant changes. The most likely reason why others are getting more out of their similarly-sized builds is because those contain the proper "utility" modules alongside these others. Without those, you're drastically limiting what the main modules are capable of.
The other issue here is that you've opted to put a bunch of very large modules into a small box. This never ends well. Invariably, the utility modules and other little boring-looking widgets get crowded out by the big "sexy" stuff, usually because...well, utilities are boring, they lack lots of lights and such, so they're generally the first to (incorrectly!) go. On the other hand, I'm NOT advocating that you should jam a bunch of 4 hp and down modules in here. But you've also noticed that this is a problem, apparently, since you're opting for chucking some of these. Hm.....
-- Lugia
Thanks for the insight Lugia! Any particular utilities that weren't already mentioned in mind that you think might be worth swapping in?
As far as patch ideas, you and I probably have very different creative workflows. We certainly have different modules. I'm not all that familiar with Hermod or SMR, so I can't speak much to the capabilities of those. I like a lot of repetition with subtle (almost imperceptible) changes, so I would probably be bouncing elements between Morphagene and Clouds in Looping Delay mode, subtle modulation, subtle addition and subtraction of elements, volume swells, happy accidents... kind of a musique concrete approach. I also like to add semi-random ratchets to a repetitive but slowly morphing 8 step sequence over another sequence of, say, 24 steps, and another element of, say, 36 steps for kind of a Tangerine Dream vibe. I don't know if Hermod can do ratchets though.
Do you have an external drum machine? Sometimes starting from a skeletal percussion line will lead you to new rhythmic and textural ideas with the melodic voices.
If you are looking to do more generative stuff, you will probably want to add something like Triple Sloths, Wogglebug, or something similar. I'm a huge fan of Pamela's New Workout for syncing everything. Ochd is a cool little multi-LFO, Sequential switches and long envelopes/slow LFOs through modulated VCAs will lead you in some fun directions. I've held off on picking up uO_C (Ornament and Crime) because off the menu-diving, but something like that or a Disting Mk4 might give you some options too.
It's hard to fit everything you need into a small case. I would recommend expanding, as Lugia mentions, to fit in all of the utilities and modulation you need before you sell anything. You have the big pretty modules and aren't getting the most out of what you already have. On the other hand, don't be embarrassed of buyer's remorse if you know a module isn't working for you. Sell it for a small loss and move on quickly to something that will inspire you for years to come. Just do your research first so those mistakes become fewer and farther between. Above all, have fun with it.
As far as patch ideas, you and I probably have very different creative workflows. We certainly have different modules. I'm not all that familiar with Hermod or SMR, so I can't speak much to the capabilities of those. I like a lot of repetition with subtle (almost imperceptible) changes, so I would probably be bouncing elements between Morphagene and Clouds in Looping Delay mode, subtle modulation, subtle addition and subtraction of elements, volume swells, happy accidents... kind of a musique concrete approach. I also like to add semi-random ratchets to a repetitive but slowly morphing 8 step sequence over another sequence of, say, 24 steps, and another element of, say, 36 steps for kind of a Tangerine Dream vibe. I don't know if Hermod can do ratchets though.
Do you have an external drum machine? Sometimes starting from a skeletal percussion line will lead you to new rhythmic and textural ideas with the melodic voices.
If you are looking to do more generative stuff, you will probably want to add something like Triple Sloths, Wogglebug, or something similar. I'm a huge fan of Pamela's New Workout for syncing everything. Ochd is a cool little multi-LFO, Sequential switches and long envelopes/slow LFOs through modulated VCAs will lead you in some fun directions. I've held off on picking up uO_C (Ornament and Crime) because off the menu-diving, but something like that or a Disting Mk4 might give you some options too.
It's hard to fit everything you need into a small case. I would recommend expanding, as Lugia mentions, to fit in all of the utilities and modulation you need before you sell anything. You have the big pretty modules and aren't getting the most out of what you already have. On the other hand, don't be embarrassed of buyer's remorse if you know a module isn't working for you. Sell it for a small loss and move on quickly to something that will inspire you for years to come. Just do your research first so those mistakes become fewer and farther between. Above all, have fun with it.
-- farkas
Man thanks so much for all of this, it's very helpful for me.
Not familiar with ratchets but I will read up on them. I love musique concrete and TD so I'm definitely into your ideas. After reading this I'm starting to thing a big issue with me is that I am not planning my modulation well enough and it's not as subtle as it should be. I find myself sometimes just trying to arbitrarily modulate things as much as I can and I think thats been a detriment to my process. Also I guess I should stop trying to implement every aspect of every module into every patch and maybe try and start off focusing on a just a simple chain and build out from there.
I have a Digitakt and I love it, that's honestly one of the reasons I wanted the hermod so I could easily clock everything from the digi. But for some reason I've been obsessed with the idea of making full pieces with just the case and nothing else lately. Not even sure why, might be some kind of weird OCD tick (only halfway joking) B^).
I dont think I have unlocked hermod's true potential in my process yet so I'm definitely going to hang onto it, but I have to admit I am not crazy about the interface for entering sequences on this thing at present. I'm trying to get used to it. The ochd is something I've been thinking of getting and maybe a uO-C as well, even though I totally hear you with the menu diving. I actually had a disting in my last skiff and I didn't enjoy using it as much as I thought I was going to, although I probably should have spent more time with it.
Perhaps expanding to 2x104hp and selling my trogotronic case isnt a bad idea. I do have to say I really like the ruggedness of this case though...
Thanks for the insight Lugia! Any particular utilities that weren't already mentioned in mind that you think might be worth swapping in?
-- enlargedgarbage
See above...I added a major variation to your initial build there.
OK...what I opted to do here is to follow your ideas of what needed removing, then I went further and rethought how the degree of functionality could be upped to the level where you've got a REAL laptop troublemaker. And this is that, I think...
Many things got changed, partly to avoid leaving out various utilities, but also to shrink/alter a few things so that there's more going on. Plus, I added an external processing bit so that, if you're feeling like adding some external creepy noises and then screwing with them, you can. So let's start there...Doepfer A-119 + a Happy Nerding TriTone parametric EQ with CV control. You can send things into the synth with this, extract envelopes and gates from the audio signal, and then mess with this timbrally via the EQ. Grabbing a contact mic would be recommended, also.
After that, we get into the synthesis section...the first thing there is a Cavisynth Bufflide, a buffered mult (needed now) plus a slew limiter for portamento effects. Then the big bank of VCOs, courtesy of a Doepfer A-111-4 Quad VCO. Four VCOs is nice, especially if they're matched so that you can do some neat detunings. But I wasn't content with that, so next to it is an Antimatter Crossfold. This is a very interesting waveshaper/folder/combiner module that can take TWO oscillator outputs and more or less slam 'em into each other for radical timbre changes before you even get to the VCF. Right after this is a little 4-in mixer to sum the VCOs/Crossfold down to send to the VCF.
The VCF here is a very versatile, complex one...Xaoc's Belgrad. This thing loves external modulation, has lots of different modes, and can do vocal formants and some odd crossmod and internal feedback, in addition to being a dual-peak multimode VCF. But I wasn't content with JUST that, so for some percussive sounds I put in a Make Noise Optomix, which gives you a pair of lowpass gates. These can be fed by the noise generator for electronic percussion sounds, or you can process most any other audio source with these, plus they sum down to a single output if that works for a given situation.
I put in a Codex Modulex clone of Veils next so that you can actually have a degree of VCA control over audio levels going into the Doepfer A-138s. Then the audio path actually moves down to the Mimeophon (replacing the Morphagene, which loses a bit of functionality but which allows for more space) and the uBurst (replaces the fullsized Clouds clone) before it goes to the Happy Nerding Isolator for a stereo output level + transformer isolation. The nice thing about that, also, is that you can overdrive the transformers for some extra warmth. The idea here, though, is that these three modules are after the A-138s above them, and you can control the balance between effect and dry via the wet-dry controls on the modules themselves.
Bottom row: added a Doepfer A-118-2 so that you now have a noise source, plus a random voltage source and a sample and hold. I left the Maths (why not, right?), then added another little Doepfer module with four free-run LFOs. And right after it, there's a Tenderfoot attenuverter/mixer that allows you to break out each attenuverter, if needed. But the next thing is just nuts...
That next thing is an After Later BLEND, which is just nuts, really. It's a dual VCA, but it also contains a minimum/maximum discriminator and a comparator, all of which has plenty of abuse potential. Then, envelopes...I opted here for an Intelljel Quadrax with its Qx expander, which gives you four AR, or ASR, or looping envelopes with several shapes, plus the Qx allows these to be chained in different ways to add yet another complex modulation source.
Now, you'll notice that most of what WAS there now ISN'T. And a lot of that comes down to those modules being just too damned BIG. Especially in a 2 x 84 cab. With a situation like that, it's necessary to squeeze things majorly in order to get everything needed in there, to say nothing of trying to add functionality. I also got rid of some things that were rather unnecessary, such as the Strymon AA. But the major thing that was removed, and which I had some misgivings about removing, was the Hermod. I really did NOT want that out of there, but it's such a huge honker that if I was going to set up any sort of workable modulation chain, it needed removal. My suggestion with it would be to either put it into a powered 4ms Pod of an appropriate size, or consider going to a different outboard multichannel sequencer, or perhaps even a sequencer/controller combo such as an Arturia Keystep Pro.
Now, if this were in a 2 x 104 cab, things would be rather different in what could stay and what would have to go. That might allow the Hermod back in, allow the Morphagene instead of the Mimeophon, etc. But I'd still strongly recommend eliminating the Clouds clone in favor of the uBurst and adding the u4xVCA instead of a Veils because the space saved here would still be useful for other things. And as for the Quad VCO, the Doepfer VCOs might be a little basic-sounding, but with the Crossfold plus the Belgrad, they won't sound basic at all. And you get an external in with some CVable timbral control so that you can mic up acoustic sources. Like I mentioned earlier, these things are excellent with contact mics, and you'll be surprised at just what creepy and weird sounds are lurking right at hand, all ready to be fed into this thing. Lots of possibilities here now...
-- Lugia
Hey Lugia! For some reason when I looked at your post earlier I did not see the whole bottom half!
Wow thanks for taking the time to do this, that is really awesome. Very helpful walkthrough and it has sparked ideas already. Only thing I will say is strymon AA is necessary for me, I forgot to mention this also doubles as a guitar effects processor for me with that module.
I'm thinking after all the knowledge y'all have blessed me with here, I might be leaning towards going up to 2x104hp and doing some adding and swapping.
2 x 104 makes a LOT more sense, especially since it's commonly and CHEAPLY available thanks to Tiptop and their Mantis case. Also, one best-kept secret might be found by checking out Erica's cases; they have a 3 x 126 for about $550-ish with beefy power. It's a little shallow, but as long as you stay under 45mm on depths, you're golden. Plus...the guitar can still go into the modular via the A-119. You lose the stereo return, but the "abuse potential" there is pretty massive with its envelope follower. Run the guitar through something like a Dynacomp to pull the level up on sustain, then just mix it like another "oscillator" while using the envelope follower to control VCF/VCA behavior.
this user has left ModularGrid
Such a great discussion and I waited on larger modules until I had a much larger case and even then I made sure to get plenty of support modules like attenuators, cv mixer, logic, vcas, etc. It really makes a difference and with that can get a few sound sources but need lots more modulation than expected. A lot of modules like Noise Engineering have tons of cv patch points begging to be modulated and mixed. I make use of matrix mixer and quad LFOs quite a bit now. I find that having 2-3 oscillators and a filter or two go a long way with the support modules. I have Quadrax with the QX expander in my smaller case and it is amazing! I recommend Pamela New Workout as that does so much as well. Lately in a larger setup, I am having a blast with Erogeneous Tones Radar for 8 envelope/function generators and that is one modulation powerhouse and you can expand it with Blip as well.
Such a great discussion and I waited on larger modules until I had a much larger case and even then I made sure to get plenty of support modules like attenuators, cv mixer, logic, vcas, etc. It really makes a difference and with that can get a few sound sources but need lots more modulation than expected. A lot of modules like Noise Engineering have tons of cv patch points begging to be modulated and mixed. I make use of matrix mixer and quad LFOs quite a bit now. I find that having 2-3 oscillators and a filter or two go a long way with the support modules. I have Quadrax with the QX expander in my smaller case and it is amazing! I recommend Pamela New Workout as that does so much as well. Lately in a larger setup, I am having a blast with Erogeneous Tones Radar for 8 envelope/function generators and that is one modulation powerhouse and you can expand it with Blip as well.
-- sacguy71
Thanks for the advice and recommendations, I'm thinking a Pam's is definitely on my list. Honestly this thread is starting to make me question my entire approach and setup which I guess is a good thing.
