How do you intend to mix your audio signals together? The Quadratt has four inputs and they are simply mono.
I'm not affiliated with any of the players mentioned. BUT... there's a bundle now for MiniBrutes plus Rackbrute 6U for $800US (Minibrute 2 or Minibrute 2S).
It includes patch cables and a travel bag. At Perfect Circuit, you can also get 10% off for the holidays (have not confirmed that it works on the bundle... just enter the code from the banner and see).
So for $720US, you get a great Eurorack starter set. I think that's a FANTASTIC deal, personally.
https://www.perfectcircuit.com/arturia-minibrute-2s-bundle.html
There's nothing wrong with buying a pre-built system. The Doepfer A-100 looks pretty tasty. There are quite a few manufacturers who make a pre-built system: Make-Noise, Roland, etc. Generally they come in a rack that's either full or mostly full. So to expand, you'll need to purchase another rack or replace existing modules. You can always keep the pulled modules until your ready to add another case.
If you have the funds up front to go that way, it's a pretty good idea.
Here's what I see... I'm not trying to beat up on your decisions. But I see a lot of issues.
First, don't rack mount the Behringer. Your Eurorack space is expensive and the Boog is huge. Use that rack space for more modules. You can always patch to and from the Boog next to your rack.
There's a complete lack of LFOs. There's one in the Boog but it's extremely basic.
Envelopes. You have one envelope. But it's just a standard ADSR with no frills. Check out the Tip Top Audio Z4000NS. You get a ton more features including the ability to modulate each stage of the ADSR. That will be helpful for ambient in my opinion. You probably want more than one ADSR in your rig.
Filters? Filters can shape, blend your sound and modulate it when connected to modulators. There are many types and set-ups. I would investigate a two channel multi-mode filter.
Sequencers? Are you going to run this as a stand alone rack or connect it to your DAW? Both? How are you going to generate CV, gates, triggers?
VCAs? What's on the Boog isn't going to cut it.
Utilities? Buffered Mults, logic modules, envelope followers, quantizers, etc., there's an entire subset of utilities that you should have.
My thought is this. You're not ready to put together a rack. You need to learn more of the basics before spending your money so you're not wasting it or regretting your decisions. I would download VCV rack (it's free) and start patching. I think there's a virtual "Clouds" simulator in it as well other digital versions of Mutable modules. Put in the rack 2-4 ADSRs, a sequencer, two to three VCOs, and lots of VCAs. Make some things and modulate them.
Plus, I think it was you, Ronin, that made the point that you can blow new firmware onto the Toolbox and change its function. That's also potentially a plus inasmuch as you can shift the entire working paradigm of a build just with a switcheroo on the Toolbox's EPROM.
-- Lugia
Corrent. But 1010 Music has TWO series of units. The first series can run BitBox, FXBox, and SynthBox. The second series can run ToolBox and LaserBox. I believe the difference in the series are the physical inputs/outputs.
Buck Modular seems to be the manufacturer... but I can't find a website for them. The best I get is a hashtag.
http://www.instahu.com/tag/buckmodular
If you're looking for gate extraction from CV, you may want to research Erica Synth's quantizer. I know it can output gates based on changes of incoming CV voltage. I don't have the model name.
You may also want to research Joranalogue's Compare 2. Perhaps its not exactly how you envisioned pulling gates, but could also be useful.
Even though it's pricey I feel the eloquencer is one of the best modular sequencers out there! Ronin have a look:
This module is a complete powerhouse with an infinity of of possibilities in terms of sequencing.
I've been eyeing out FMRs products, I also checked out the RNLA but I feel the RNC gives a more transparent result. Thanks for the recommendations guys!
-- burayemusic
As far as sequencers, I had a toss-up between the Eloquencer and 1010 Music's Toolbox. I went with the Toolbox. There's nothing wrong with the Eloquencer. It's great. However the Toolbox is smaller (fewer HP), it's more flexible with its outputs, and the controls are a lot easier to deal with... especially coming from a DAW environment to a Eurorack environment.
I would also check out the forums for OS revisions. 1010 is always updating the firmware to give more value. From what I understand the Eloquencer is rarely updated. Oh, and something you might like is the ability of the Toolbox to record CV voltages, store them, and play them back. So if you have a nice complex loop of CV, just record it and take back your CV generators for something else.
The Eloquencer quantizes internally. Nice feature, that...
As for compression/dynamics, give this a look: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/fmr-rnc.html . Very simple, straightforward, and excellent-sounding. Plus for 'bang for buck' factor, the RNC is hard to beat for a quality stereo compressor. It's a workhorse.
-- Lugia
The Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4 just added some dynamics/compression patches. While it's not as substantial as a dedicated compressor, I would take it into account if I needed a couple of compressors once in a while to have two Distings.
Cool. Cool.
Also, your 1U Quadratt can be used to reduce the range of CV signals as well as offset them.
Take for example your standard LFO. It runs +5V to -5V. But say you want it to run +5V to 0V (all positive). Place the output of the LFO into channel one of the Quadratt and reduce its voltage by half. Now you have +2.5V to -2.5V LFO. Now take the output of channel 2 of the Quadratt and boost the signal of channel 2 until the LFO runs at +5V to 0V. The Quadratt outputs are normalled together as a summing mixer. When you don't insert a patch cable to a channels output it mixes into the next available channel. When no cable is present in the input (like in channel 2), you get a voltage to play with that you can also use to offset other channel's voltages or use stand-alone. You can do the same trick with channels 3 and 4. This also works well when you're trying to limit the range of notes your quantizer is spitting out as well. Wait... I don't see a quantizer. :)
It's a fun module. But I've found it hard to incorporate with other sounds as it always seems to want to dominate everything around it. It has some unique and inspiring qualities... but trying to put a saddle on it and ride it around is pretty difficult.
I clicked on your rack and there are some changes between what's pictured and your rack. I noticed that you added a Dixie II. I don't think they are made anymore... I think they are now Dixie II+, which is a bigger module in terms of HP. You'd have to find a second-hand Dixie II.
Koma also makes attenuator cables. You might want to add them to your selection as well as the stackables. Being able to attenuate a signal without running it into another set of patch points is pretty useful.
Oh wait... the Neutron does have a second VCA. Attenuator 1 has a CV gain control. I'm not sure if that qualifies as full VCA control. But I'm sure it'll do in a pinch.
I have two Intellijel Quad VCAs. I found them to be the most flexible due to the normalling as well as the linear to exponential response curve... and a switch to boost signal level through the VCA.
You can find other VCA modules with more VCAs per HP. But I think most of them lack features and are set at either exp. or linear response.
Hey Placebo, the Z-DSP's internal rate clock is also clockable to an external input. That means you can get some grunginess out of it. I've had mine for about a month but it hasn't seen much action... yet.
If you're getting the Batumi, get the Poti expander. It's cheap and gives you instant access to different wave shapes, sync/reset options, etc. Most of these functions can be changed by pulling the module and moving jumpers without the Poti. But why suffer that kind of torment?
When you buy a module... the Lugia Law of modular states you'll want to buy another one.
Starting out in a skiff means you're going to box yourself in in no time. There are tons of great modules out there but are exclusively in larger HP forms. If you put a couple of these larger beasts in your rack, you quickly run out of room. Having to slave your next purchase based on available HP puts a serious ding in your set-up when first starting out.
I think the Tip Top Mantis offers 208 HP (104HPx2) for around $300US. I would start in something like that. The balance between price and space seems about right.
I went with the Intellijel 7U 104 case (then bought another one). I still weigh the pros and cons of my decision... but I really wanted the 1U for attenuverters (Intellijel Quadrats). Inverting CV, mixing, etc... I paid the premium to have that.
Recommending a filter is like recommending a wife. It's more about what you like.
In my personal set-up I have an Intellijel Morgasmatron and a Roland (Maleko Heavy Industries designed it) 505 filter module. The Intellijel covers the basic multimodes. The 505 is there because I love the Roland filter sound. The next filter will be the Joranalogue filter. I might pick up a Doepfer Wasp since they are like $100 and have their own unique flavor.
I also have a Xaoc Batumi with the Poti expander for my LFOs. It serves its purpose. But I might wander into something more traditional with PWM for the square wave as well as a reset gate.
I have other gear that can generate LFOs: Intellijel Rubicon II, Tip Top Z3000, Expert Sleeper Disting, Ornaments & Crime, 1010 Music Toolbox Sequencer, Expert Sleepers FH2... so I'm pretty much covered for all my LFOs at the moment.
The bottom-line is this... whatever you decide... you will be wrong. You will have good relationships with some modules and bad relationships with others. Keep the good ones, find alternatives to the "bad" ones.
Get the micro-versions of the Mutable stuff and buy a Eurorack module capable of mixing your signals.
What's the relationship between those vendors and Mutable Instruments? I like Olivier Gillet's work and I like the idea of my dollars supporting MI.
But you'll want an envelope generator and a VCA to go with it.
If I am accumulating gear gradually, I can start out with overdubbing and use the Neutron's VCA and envelopes, I think.
Thanks again for your helpful responses.
-- RelaxedNapper
Mutable Instruments believes in open-sourcing their code. Those people crafting their own versions of Braids, Clouds, etc. aren't violating MI as far as I know. MI isn't your typical manufacturer. You can buy the micro modules and other from respected retailers like Detroit Modular and Perfect Circuit. MI supports the DIYers.
As far as I know, the Neutron only has one VCA. "You can never have enough VCAs." Take that to heart. VCAs can control audio as well as every kind of CV. I would say to try your approach and see if it is satisfactory. You can always try it and buy more modules if you're unhappy with the results.
The Roland 531 mixer. Though I've been looking at the Happy Nerding Pan Mixer as well. It's smaller and you can select either pan OR volume to modulate by CV. It also has VU metering.
Update on the 1010 Music Toolbox... loving it.
Hi there. I'm just going to fire off some questions.
Seems you really like Erica Synth products. All of your oscillators are digital. Is there a reason? It feels that you wanted to go for as many panels in black as possible with the O'Tool being a necessity.
You're depending heavily on the FH2 for sequencing. Working on modular and go back and forth to a DAW isn't very ergonomic. Have you used a DAW as a sequencer for Eurorack before?
I see one EG/LFO unit. You're loaded up on oscillators, filters, and multi-effects units but really light on EGs. The FH2 can output envelopes and LFOs as well... but they are really clunky to use in real time.
There's an additional PICO sequencer. Can it be sync'ed to the FH2 or another external clock? I'm not familiar with it.
I would ease into Eurorack rather than buying a ton of modules and filling a case. Maybe this is your current "ideal" but that's going to change quite a bit once you actually start using the modules. Don't depend on the FH2 to get you what you want. I bought one and it's a bit of a pain to use if you're trying to reconfigure it while connected to a DAW. You have to use a webpage app and send updates via system exclusive to the FH2. If your DAW is open you can't use the web app to update it at the same time. If you infrequently change the FH2's settings cool. But I wouldn't depend on it if you're looking to work quickly.
Your current choices aren't bad. You just don't have a lot of options. A filter, maybe an LFO might give you a bit more range.
I would wait until Behringer drops their 808 into production before shopping for a drum machine. The 808 will probably be pretty hot and come in around $400. I can see Moog discounting the DFAM to compete.
As far as sequencers, check out the Eloquencer and then the 1010 Music Toolbox. If you're coming from the world of DAW, the Toolbox is an easy transition to make and it's very flexible with 8 Gate and 8 CV or Gate outputs. It does a variety of LFOs and can even sample two channels of external CV. I bought one and I really like it. It serves as the hub of my set-up now. I'm not saying it's right for you, but to check it out to see if it is.
How do you intend on triggering your drum machine? How many gates/triggers would you be feeding it or do you want one with an internal sequencer you can just sync? That should throw into your sequencer selection. You may even have/need a second sequencer for your percussion.
I'm less than six months ahead of you. But have about 25 years in audio engineering. :)
Expert Sleepers offers many products. Some of their product line is pretty confusing as to its purpose and functionality. The Disting does not have ADAT lightpipe capabilities as far as I know. However, it has tons of functionality. I hate the interface as it's not intuitive as far as adjusting parameters of each program. But the difficulty in use is worth it due to the tons of features. It's basically a Swiss Army knife for Eurorack. If you keep it in reserve and give it no full-time duties, it can provide that one missing ingredient. "I need an extra LFO, ADSR, ring modulator, compressor, etc..." for this one patch.
If you can dual boot your Linux machine, I'd add a Windows partition. As Lugia explained, you're not going to get the most out of your computer running Linux. It's always going to be a compromise over what's available. Booting it into Windows gives you tons of inexpensive options. There's a DAW by the name of REAPER that's quite extensive, inexpensive and hosts VST plug-ins as well. There are TONS... TONS of free VSTs out there that compete with retail. As Eurorack is quite expensive, having a low cost DAW arsenal at your disposal goes a long way towards freeing up cash for your Eurorack addiction.
The easiest way to dual boot your Linux machine is to use two hard drives on a switch. Select drive A to cold boot into Linux and drive B to boot into Windows. Or you could use the software method on one drive with two partitions. No disrespect to Linux. It's just not popular enough to compete in the DAW niche.
What I would do is download VCV rack. The basic set-up is free. I believe that it comes with a knock-off of Clouds. Try your hand at producing ambient sounds in VCV rack FIRST. Once you're able to make something you like, you can emulate your set-up in a real Eurorack case. I'd get the skills first so that you know what you're looking for before spending a small fortune on what you think that you need.
As Lugia stated, you don't necessarily need to use what's currently popular for the genre. It really depends on where you want to go and what appeals to your own tastes.
Get the micro-versions of the Mutable stuff and buy a Eurorack module capable of mixing your signals. Unless you like the kick sounds in the Plaits, you may want to go in a different direction. The Intellijel Morgasmatron dual filter is great for making some tasty electronic kicks. But you'll want an envelope generator and a VCA to go with it. As an alternative, the Noise Engineering Basimilus Iteritas Alter makes for a good stand alone kick module with no other external gear. You can also use it as an VCO when not needing it for a kick.
Oh, and the Expert Sleepers Disting just got a few compressor algorithms, great for compressing drum drum mixes... but again, you're going to want some way to sum them and feed them into the compressor.
You may find it better to keep the Neutron in its own case and use your expensive rack HP for more modules.
I checked the website, there's no documentation that I can find.
http://www.bubblesound-instruments.com/MIX6.html
You may want to contact the manufacturer. There are mixers that are intentionally made with low headroom so that distortion can be used as an effect. I don't think this one does. I'd ask the manufacturer how many volts it can take at unity gain before distortion. In most mixers, you can intentionally overdrive the sound by starting with an already loud signal and making it louder.
I don't think you'd have an issue unless your drums are already slamming the inputs.
I would first look into comparator modules and research them. Ultimately, you're looking to create triggers. Once the volume of your contact mics reach a certain threshold, you want to go from a state of "off" to "on." Volume might be trickier. An envelope follower driving a VCA sounds like a good place to start. You may also want to consider a low-pass gate with the contact mic opening and closing it.
Though, it'd probably be cheaper to use MIDI drum triggers and then convert the MIDI data to gates and the velocity to a CV output. Reinventing this wheel in pure Eurorack is an expensive way to go.
Speaking of modulation cube, Worng Electronics Vector Space. Any experience with it Lugia? How would you compare it?
The Disting is a multi-function module. It can do LFOs, but I wouldn't depend on it as a primary source for LFOs.
There are many dedicated LFOs out there. Which one to select is entirely up to your own tastes. A simple LFO is direct and easy to use. You can go more complex like Xaoc's Batumi with a Poti expander for example. More complex LFOs allow you to restart the LFO's cycle and/or sync them to a clock source. You may also find others with additional or different features.
Your Maths has input channels that will allow you to attenuate or even invert the LFO (attenuverter)... channels 2 and 3 can do that for you without running through the slew aspects of channels 1 and 4. But you may want to have at least one dedicated attenuverter if you want to use the Maths for a different set of functions.
I have the Xaoc Batumi and like it... but you may want to explore other options as its a bit on the expensive side.
You may want to consider the micro our "u" versions of all of the Mutable Instruments stuff in order to save space. Michigan Synths Works stuff is available through retailers if you're not comfortable going to a freelance builder.
I'm not sure if the Ornaments & Crimes will give you a 1:1 replacement of the Pamela's New Workout. You may want to look into the Temps Utile module instead. Do the research between all three modules. Both O_C and TU are available as micro modules as well. 8HP each I believe.
Seems to be lacking LFOs and modulation sources. Get one or two LFOs and throw in an Expert Sleepers Disting for experimentation. You have basic sequencing covered in your MIDI to CV converter if you have a DAW or hardware MIDI sequencer. Granted there are other uses for Eurorack sequencers other than triggering notes.
It's not a bad set-up as is. You seem to have plenty of room for expansion. I'd try using it with the Moog 55 for a couple of months and then analyze your own set-up for what seems to be lacking or what other areas you'd like to explore.
Have a plan for expansion, but don't be afraid to alter it as you learn more and realize your own style and themes.
The 1010 Music Laserbox is the same format at the 1010 Music Toolbox. If you buy a Toolbox sequencer, you can just flash the firmware to make it a Laserbox and back again to a Toolbox. So if you're in the market for a sequencer and some added functionality when not using it as a sequencer, the modulation source might be worth it.
I bought a uBraids from Michigan Synth Works. Can't complain. I bought an O_C and Temps Utile from a Modular Grids member/maker. They work perfectly as well. Message me and I'll give you the name if you wish.
Read up on all the functionality of the OC... it even has a dual sequencer that can output gates as well as envelopes. So if you get in a pinch, the OC can deliver envelopes or your quantizer or even an extra shift register (but only one set of functions at the same time).
As far as your matrix sequencer, you might want to check out Noise Engineering's Mimetic Digitalis. The functionality is similar (but not the same) as the Tip Top unit. It's only 10HP and about $100 less. Pair that with a second O_C and you should have even more options in 18HP rather than 28HP. You can also save the state of the O_C and the Mimetic Digitalis, which is a big plus. With that extra 10HP, you have room for another 10HP VCO or 5 2HP units.
I know, so many options...
Hi there.
If you're going with the Intellijel 104HP 7U case, it has 1/4" inputs and outputs on the case already. You won't need to add the 1U jack interface that's to the left of the volume control module. The TipTop Z4000 ADSR has CV inputs that can control each stage of the envelope. The Doepfer saves space but you're going to get sick of those jumpers in a heartbeat. The Z4000 is 8HP, so two of them equates to 16HP. The Intellijel dual ADSR is 14HP. I would substitute one of the Intellijel VCA modules for something else that's a little slimmer like the Zlob 6 channel VCA. It's slimmer and gives you six VCAs instead of four. They aren't as flexible as the Intellijel, but you've got that covered with the first Intellijel VCA.
If you can spare even more room, get rid of the uScale and replace it with a micro Ornaments and Crime. It has a quantizer built in, plus a bunch of other features when you're not needing a quantizer.
That Pan Mix by Happy Nerding is an awesome find! I was seriously considering the Roland 6 channel mixer because of the panning... but it also has mutes. But the CV control of panning and volume makes the Pan Mix a bit more attractive. Thanks so much for posting it. You've helped ME out. :)
Great post. Great post indeed.
Can I add a seventh comment:
7) Time. Like with any instrument, it takes time... a shitload of time to get good at it. Every module you add is another layer of complexity. In order to get the most out of your set-up, you'll have to dive DEEP into every module, even the simplistic ones. You'll have to create a TON of test patches to get a feel for different attributes. The more complex the module, the more time you'll invest. Even if you have years of experience with software synths or polyphonic synths, you're still going to have to put in a ton of work.
I looked at the specs on the VCA module here:
http://www.doepfer.de/a1324.htm
Any control voltage above +5v pushes you above unity and into amplification. If you have anything that can measure voltages, you may want to check your modulation source to see if you are, in fact, hitting the VCA harder than +5v in CV. That would explain your unwanted distortion. You can either attenuate the audio signal or attenuate the CV signal.
Using another VCA or attenuator (like an attenuverter) will help keep the signal in check to avoid distortion.
My initial thought on my build was that I would save some cash and let my DAW handle the heavy sequence lifting. It seemed a little daft to have an entire MIDI capable DAW and then replicate a portion of it inside of a Eurorack case.
I was wrong.
Hooking it up to the DAW really impacted my workflow. It seemed a better fit for augmented a piece created in a DAW with some Eurorack flavor than as part as a compositional tool. When I'm wiggling and standing there with a handful of patch cables, going to the DAW felt alien. Until the 1010 Music Toolbox comes, I've been using Ornament & Crime as a sequencer.
The point above is don't be afraid to be WRONG about your needs. Your going to order things that sound great on paper you won't use. I have a Lifeforms 8 step microsequencer that gets almost zero use. I bought a Behringer Neutron that rarely has an electron flowing through it. No matter how much planning and exploration you do. You're going to have some regrets. Take it slow, order a handful of things until you experience what direction you ultimately want to go in. You may find yourself... in a shotgun shack... with a beautiful wife... cursing set-up "A" you've spent a fortune on when in your heart you're really a set-up "B" kind of person... because you've found that's what inspires you around modular.
Sorry for the lecture. But responding helps me focus my thoughts as well as helping someone else on the ladder. I would wait on the Akemie's Castle but leave room for it in your rack. Get a feel for a smaller set-up and branch out.
Hi Sorid,
I just read your previous post. Three comments:
Did you ever consider the Expert Sleepers FH2 as your CV to DAW interface? It can output CV, gate, and clock. All outputs are available to be CV, gate, or clock (as well as LFOs and ADSRs). It's also expandable. I have one in my rack and like it. Though once you have your DAW booted, you have to quit your DAW to reconfigure it via the web interface. The onboard interface is a bit of a menu dive. However for the price and HP space, it's hard to beat. I also have a Temps Utile module. It can take a clock input and provide up to six clock outputs from /64 to x64. I believe Pamela's New Workout can provide the same if you're not comfortable with custom built stuff.
Zadar vs. Batumi. I think some features overlap but the Batumi is a quad LFO generator while the Zadar is more of an envelope generator. I own the Batumi with the Poti. I like it, but it's not as great as I thought it would be. I would consider having a traditional LFO as well if you're looking for real-time tweaking of values. It can be a little tricky when changing frequencies (faster/slower). The Zadar is in my wishlist due to the unique envelopes it can generate... but I also have the Intellijel dual ADSR. Having a traditional ADSR or two is also a good idea.
Also, buy a bigger case than you think you'll need. By all means add modules to your case like every HP is sacred. But when it comes time to expand, you'll get more value if you have rack space to spare. Of course, this means more upfront costs. But in my opinion it's worth it.
At some point you'll end up biting the bullet and hoping for the best. You might also want to develop a relationship with a reliable Eurorack dealer and ask for some help/suggestions as well. The good ones treat you like a client rather than a one-n-done customer.
Are you sold on getting a RackBrute case? It's nice to have one mounted above your MiniBrute. But if you went with something like the Mantis, you get 208HP rather than 171HP (you sacrifice 5HP for the power supply). If you have the cash, the 7U 108HP Intellijel case is also worthy of consideration as well... you get 208HP of regular space plus 104HP of 1U and a metal lid for your case that will allow you to leave things patched. If you're working live, this will save some considerable time setting up.
I noticed Luigi's build dumps the Noise Engineering stuff. How important are those modules to you?
Even if you get a Zadar, you'll want at least one traditional ADSR unit. Menu diving isn't a lot of fun. You might consider a Tip Top Z4000 as an alternative to the Doepfer. It's only one channel (make it two if you have the space). I believe it's stage of the ADSR can be manipulated by CV, so you can control the length of each stage via CV/sequencer. If you want to make sounds that evolve, you may want ADSRs with this ability.
There are no wrong ways to go about it... only varying levels of disappointment. Start in earnest as you're getting intimate with your modules and learning about their capabilities as well as YOUR capabilities.
The Roland 531 offers six channels of mixing plus pans and pan automation (CV) on every channel. You may or may not want to ditch it depending on your anticipated needs.
The Disting mk4 can only be dialed into one set-up at a time. So you can't use it as a filter and a distortion effect at once. You have a little space left in the rack as-is. I think there's enough room for a 2HP filter.
If you're coming from Ableton you may want to consider a 1010 Music Toolbox as your sequencer rather than the Metropolis. It takes up less space and the workflow is similar to a DAW rather than a classic modular sequencer. That will give you more space for other modules. The springray is just an interface for a spring reverb tank. So you'll have to haul it around with your rack. If that's not a problem, cool. If it is, you can probably replace the SpringRay with something DSP based that is smaller.
The cost between a passive 1U mult and an active one isn't enough to go with the passive. I'd go active and not worry about it. (respectfully disagreeing with Lugia).
That Atlantis module is the real pig in HP real estate, I'd sacrifice first (personal opinion). It's a self-contained synth voice (oscillator, filter, VCA, etc.). So you may be better off using the space for a dedicated filter, another dedicated oscillator, and perhaps some other modulation/envelopes.
Xaoc is coming out with a new envelope generator (digita), with four envelopes. I'd check that out as well and see if it fits into what you're after.
I just started a second 104HP 7U case and most of the space is already accounted for. So you'll really want to consider the size of the modules you've selected, their value, and any need to expand. No matter what you do... you'll feel like you're "wrong" about your choices and then rethink your plans about 4-5 times. Best bet is to build in stages rather than all-in so you can rethink your plans once you've got some knob wiggling time under your belt.
You're welcome. Whatever you sold the 0Coast for would be the target budget. That way you haven't lost any money on a prior decision... you might even come out ahead.
Stereo can always be summed to mono, but you lose any stereo imaging. If you pass your stereo signal into anything mono, you lose stereo. The bigger question is what is and isn't stereo in the signal path?
Your typical VCO is usually mono. You can plug a mono signal into a stereo mixer and you'll get your mono audio coming out the left and right outputs (assuming you're not panning it left or right). But that's not true stereo. To be "true" stereo there has to be some difference between what's coming out of the left output and the right output.
Does the filter need to go after the Black DSP 2 or can it go before it?
VCO> Mono Mixer Input #1
VCO Sub >Mono Mixer Input #2
Mono Mixer Output > Filter Input
Filter Output>Black DSP 2 Input
Black DSP 2 Left Output> Stereo Mixer Left Input
Black DSP 2 Right Output> Stereo Mixer Right Input
(all assuming that the Black DSP can take a single channel input and apply stereo effects to it with the original input being panned dead center)
If you have a VCA like the Intelligel Quad VCA, you can trigger two VCAs with just one voltage. You can tap the fourth output as a summing mixer and then into the Wasp filter and then the Wasp into the Black DSP as described above.
If the filter has to go after the Black DSP 2 then you can't get around needing two filters. You'll also need to split any CV so it goes to both filters if you're modulating any part of the filter.
Mutable Instruments made Braids and then discontinued it. Mutable has a policy of open-sourcing (or similar) a lot of their code. The Mutable stuff is great but the modules tend to be a bit large. Since there is an open-door policy 3rd parties have redesigned the module to fit in a smaller space, made 3rd party circuit boards and plates available for purchase as well. So you could go to an electronics supplier, buy all the parts, buy the PCB boards and plate, and literally make your own copy of a Braids unit (the code is available to program into it as well).
Most people would rather just buy a module than get handy with a soldering iron and burn their fingers.
Okay... now to your question:
There shouldn't be any real difference between the modules except price. Granted there may be some difference in the quality of parts, quality of workmanship or non-essential features. The layout is also a little different though the functionality should be the same. The Tall Dog version also claims to be endorsed by someone over at Mutable... I'm not sure if that's worth the $75 price difference... as in I don't have the answer to that question.
I just ordered a Michigan Synthworks uBraids II from Detroit Modular for the $250 price. It gets here next week. I like that it has a couple of faders on it instead of knobs... which I like for real-time wiggling. Contact me in a couple of weeks if you want to know how I like it.
Understood. There are no wrong answers.
I would get another 0Coast then and then skiff to augment it. I wouldn't put the 0Coast in a rack since rackspace is expensive. You know the architecture of the 0Coast, it has the sounds that you want... go for it. You're going to get a different sound out of this set-up than your 0Coast, even if it's the same manufacturer.
You may also want to check out Expert Sleepers FH2 as your MIDI interface instead of Yarns. It connects directly via USB and all 8 outputs can out put CV, gates, and triggers/clocks. Pair that with the 0Coast and you've got the core of your system right there (assuming you want to go all CV and gates). Then augment it with anything else you want. I believe the 0Coast will take MIDI-Clock in, but I don't know if it will output clock. Don't underestimate the need for clock in your future rack.
Bottom-line, do what's best for you and take any advice (especially mine) with a grain of salt. I'd look on eBay for a second-hand 0Coast and get the sounds I've been missing and then build from there.
Started with one Intellijel 7U 104HP case.
I just ordered a second and some modules to go in it.
The first pic is what I will have by end of next week.
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_780923.jpg
Here is the final after I sell some more plasma and eat some more Ramen.
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_774062.jpg
I want to be able to put a foot into ambient tracks as well as some edgy sounds via the Noise Engineering modules. At this point I'm not looking to put together a complete composition inside the box, but build up the basis of tracks and add percussion and arrange in Ableton. I might pick up the Behringer 808 once it comes out at the price point of $400.
I really love the Quadratts for attenuation, attenuverting, as well as manual modulation sources. The knobs are just big enough. This is helpful especially when wanting to manually control any of the 2HP modules with their tiny, tiny pots.
Whatchathink? All comments welcome regardless of perspective.
For what you basically have, I think you'd be better off with a Mother-32, Neutron, or something equivalent unless you're dead set on the VCOs you've selected. Then slowly add a skiff with some modules to compliment or augment what you have. If you're going to stick with your skiff (nothing wrong with that), you might want to add a buffered mult so you can supply both oscillators with the same control voltages and gates. Passively splitting CV that's controlling pitch can cause issues with accurately supplying the intended voltage to the 1/v Octave inputs.
Rainmaker is a bit of a pig when it comes to HP space. But when creating ambient patches, it's a good way to go. I would also look into Tip Top's Z-DSP and the Valhalla series of reverbs.
To save some space you might want to look into the micro or "u" versions of Clouds and Rings. They are 8HP if I recall correctly. They will save you some space for other modules.
I'm anxiously awaiting the Xaoc Zadar to come out. It's four advanced envelope generators in 10HP; perfect for ambiences.
You could also save some space by replacing the Intellijel Metropolis with a 1010 Music Toolbox. I would definitely compare the two and see which fits a little more. The selling point on the Toolbox for me (just ordered it) was the ability to record and loop two simultaneous control voltages from external devices and SAVE it permanently to an SD card. It also has built in LFO generators for all your wiggling delights.
I think you might want a much stronger mixer for blending ambiances as well. That'll chew up more HP than what you have... but might be worth it. Roland makes a six channel mixer with pans and mutes that's in my "must buy" list. It's a lot bigger. But being able to mix/pan up to six sound sources as well as mute them might be pretty handy for ambient mixes.
Oh, and a quantizer... you need one of those. Erica makes one that's about 3HP or you can buy an Ornaments and Crime that's 8HP and get two quantizers and a ton of other features included.
The biggest thing missing would be a clock divider as well as some buffered mults. You'll want a clock divider so you can sync tempos between your sequencer, the Rain Maker, etc. A Pamela's New Workout or a Temps Utile would work wonders there. You may also want to consider a precision adder, attenuverters, and possibly some switches/mutes.
My comments are all over the place... but bottom line, I would research a bit more to find alternates that are smaller and make sure I have plenty of modulation sources.
Two suggestions:
When building a rack on MD, we have two choices of modules: the general pool of modules and modules we own.
I would like a third tab called "Wishlist." When planning out updates to my system, it would be nice to be able to segregate modules further into ones I actually own and those I'm planning to own or I'm interested in.
For unicorn users, being able to set a maximum depth for each row and take it into account when placing modules would also be helpful. Granted, the space under each module can vary depending on what's under it having varying heights within the case. But it would be great to get a warning triggered. I've found myself having to rearrange my physical rack when a module or two exceeded the clearance for that particular row or part of a row.
LOL... you know nothing of Eurorack and post some wild idea that would be uber expensive and difficult to control in a live situation. You ask for advice. You got it. It's your money and your idea. Go ahead and try it and report back, colonel clueless.
