bought shades from @Slocap arrived quickly in lovely condition, thanks dude.
Bought a module from @techforze - great condition as described, friendly communications and was sent very quickly & well packaged! :)
Open to comments on any/all of this.... I have a few racks up on MG, feel free to compare, going more or less the same direction with most of them, with a few variations. Obviously going just for synthesis here, no sequencing or effects. I'm going for 8hp or less in as many modules as possible save for ones that seem unique. Based very loosely on my favorite modules in my current setup CLICK ON THIS TO SEE IT ALL ( 
) but in a 104x2 format. Especially want to know the best gate extractor is out there! Also anything about the Koma vactrol filter the PM Lifeforms Primary Osc. Is the Batumi worth the price? Tubbutec uTune? This is something I can't afford all at once, so I'll be picking away at it for awhile. I think there's a cheap SM Valve Multiplier near me, so that might be next unless one of you has a better version of the same (in 8HP).
No, the +/- 12V you're probably thinking of is generally what you find on your power rails. Synth-level signals usually work like this:
Audio: this tends to be +/- 8V peak to peak at max, much of the time, but levels up to +/-10V aren't uncommon.
LFOs: as a rule, this is similar to audio levels except when the signals are unipolar. In that case, you see one of two things: either the voltages swing around a given voltage offset level, or 0V is still the center, but there's no negative voltage swing. This last state is also what you see with audio that's been half-wave rectified in waveshaping/distortion.
EGs: 0 to +8V (or a bit more). Envelopes only swing into negative voltages when inverted, as a rule. Some inverted envelopes can also swing from a given positive offset level down to 0V, as well, depending on application.
Gate/triggers: 0 to +5V is the norm. However, some synths use inverse triggers, such as the Korg MS-20, older Yamaha monosynths, etc. Also, the Moog "S-Trig" bus is normally at +5V until triggered, when it drops to 0V; this is unusual, however, as the Moog "S-Trig" is prone to voltage drops due to connecting too many devices to the trigger bus, which can cause the triggering to fire at unwanted times and it's recognized these days as the 'wrong' way to do this.
Note also that some inputs that normally see only positive-going voltages can have interesting reactions when fed with bipolar voltages, and vice-versa.
Control voltages usually scale upward exponentially from 0V in what's known as a volts-per-octave (often written as 'V/8va') relationship. There are different methods, though, with some (again, Korg and Yamaha) using a linear Hz/V scaling, some older synths (notably EML) using 1/10thV steps with 1.2V/8va, and some using bipolar CVs in a V/8va relationship (Moog).
Came across this diy case idea today
https://www.bluelanternstore.com/survival.html#/
The Eloquencer quantizes internally. Nice feature, that...
As for compression/dynamics, give this a look: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/fmr-rnc.html . Very simple, straightforward, and excellent-sounding. Plus for 'bang for buck' factor, the RNC is hard to beat for a quality stereo compressor. It's a workhorse.
-- Lugia
The Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4 just added some dynamics/compression patches. While it's not as substantial as a dedicated compressor, I would take it into account if I needed a couple of compressors once in a while to have two Distings.
Good seller, item as described and kept in contact to update me on the delivery
All round good experience! Thanks:)
This is the model I have and it is up for sale.
Even though it's pricey I feel the eloquencer is one of the best modular sequencers out there! Ronin have a look:
This module is a complete powerhouse with an infinity of of possibilities in terms of sequencing.
I've been eyeing out FMRs products, I also checked out the RNLA but I feel the RNC gives a more transparent result. Thanks for the recommendations guys!
The Eloquencer quantizes internally. Nice feature, that...
As for compression/dynamics, give this a look: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/fmr-rnc.html . Very simple, straightforward, and excellent-sounding. Plus for 'bang for buck' factor, the RNC is hard to beat for a quality stereo compressor. It's a workhorse.
Go to Arturia's website and DL the Matrixbrute manual, and then see page 2. The expression pedal I/Os aren't really supposed to connect to a modular system, but actual pedals. The rest of the I/O should be at normal synth levels.
Yes, the Mackie VLZs will handle synth level appropriately. Just back the trims way down, and there you go. I have an original 1202 that I've had for over 25 years, used it for literally everything imaginable, and it takes loads of signal level abuse and keeps on rolling. Even so, an output module with isolation can tease out some benefits in lowering noise floors, eliminating any potential of groundlooping, and the like. Since you're doing your FX on the Mackie's AUXes, there's another Happy Nerding output module that's just a straight stereo out...but with transformer isolation, and there is definitely some audio benefits to having a bit of 'iron' in your output path like that. Adds a touch of enharmonic nonlinearity that warms up sounds, as a rule, without really mangling them...unless (and this is a benefit, too) you push the transformers into saturation with some high levels, in which case you'll get a nice, warm, wooly saturated sound that you'll likely find some uses for.
Seconds on the Intellijel Quad VCA. As far as multi-VCAs go right now, I'd say that that one's fairly close to being the gold standard. The ability to warp the response curve is brilliant, plus the addition of the mix function is super-convenient for either audio or CV summing. For a smaller rig, it's a good way to go.
Cool. Cool.
Also, your 1U Quadratt can be used to reduce the range of CV signals as well as offset them.
Take for example your standard LFO. It runs +5V to -5V. But say you want it to run +5V to 0V (all positive). Place the output of the LFO into channel one of the Quadratt and reduce its voltage by half. Now you have +2.5V to -2.5V LFO. Now take the output of channel 2 of the Quadratt and boost the signal of channel 2 until the LFO runs at +5V to 0V. The Quadratt outputs are normalled together as a summing mixer. When you don't insert a patch cable to a channels output it mixes into the next available channel. When no cable is present in the input (like in channel 2), you get a voltage to play with that you can also use to offset other channel's voltages or use stand-alone. You can do the same trick with channels 3 and 4. This also works well when you're trying to limit the range of notes your quantizer is spitting out as well. Wait... I don't see a quantizer. :)
So I did make some changes, I've been contemplating my needs and what I want to get from the system as well as what Ronin mentioned. I now have an Erica Synths MIDI to clock as I think it will work better with my ERM Multiclock, I actually searched and the Dixie is still available in Perfect Circuit! So it's a nice LFO to have. Exchanged the synth voices for some wavetables such as the Muskrat and the Erica Synths Black Wavetable as well as the Shapeshifter, took out the Jellysquasher as Lugia recommended. Finally added the Mutamix. I believe this can get some really complex and crazy drone/ambient/textures. Sequencing the wavetables and other voices with the eloquencer and using Dixie, Maths, Rainmaker and Morgasmatron to enhance it all!
Hey, so upon watching a video on how to route your modular rack into a matrix brute I noticed the author mentioned the expression jack pathway couldn't exceed +3.3 volts, does this mean any other jack could support -12 from modular rack? Does anyone have experience or info to help me with this? Thanks!
Thanks for the reply Luigia! Though I've more or less scrapped the plan from yesterday now(this is the final revision, I'm promising myself that)... I've realized that to truly craft the instrument I want I just need to more or less start over.
That said, Behold...!
Okay I also just really love how this system looks, but it also seems like it would be a lazerbeam of precision awesomeness to play..
To address some of your previous points - I do run my whole modular system through a Mackie 802VLZ4, which seems to more or less handle the modular levels, though I really have no comparison as this is the only way I've ever done it. Would you still think I could benefit from an output module?
I do have a seperate little 48 hp case which I'm currently using as a little System Concrete style sampler, but I could turn it into an output buffer zone... Maybe with Mutable Instruments Clouds, a Cwejman VC-SC and that Happy Nerding unit you mentioned... Now I'm getting into dreaming territory though :P
Also, I have an Eventide Space connected to the Aux-Send of said mixer, so am covered on the reverb front.
Any thoughts on this current plan?
(edit) Am debating now between Tides v2 and Just Friends.. I feel like I understand the capabilities of Tides a lot more, and that makes it more inviting.. But something about the mystique of Just Friends is hard to shake. It's almost as if because I understand it less it seems more capable -_-
It's a fun module. But I've found it hard to incorporate with other sounds as it always seems to want to dominate everything around it. It has some unique and inspiring qualities... but trying to put a saddle on it and ride it around is pretty difficult.
I clicked on your rack and there are some changes between what's pictured and your rack. I noticed that you added a Dixie II. I don't think they are made anymore... I think they are now Dixie II+, which is a bigger module in terms of HP. You'd have to find a second-hand Dixie II.
Koma also makes attenuator cables. You might want to add them to your selection as well as the stackables. Being able to attenuate a signal without running it into another set of patch points is pretty useful.
Oh wait... the Neutron does have a second VCA. Attenuator 1 has a CV gain control. I'm not sure if that qualifies as full VCA control. But I'm sure it'll do in a pinch.
I have two Intellijel Quad VCAs. I found them to be the most flexible due to the normalling as well as the linear to exponential response curve... and a switch to boost signal level through the VCA.
You can find other VCA modules with more VCAs per HP. But I think most of them lack features and are set at either exp. or linear response.
Very good transaction with @Nielsen, great communication and quick shipping. Thanks!
You're right, @Ronin1973, that the Neutron has a single VCA.
@Lugia, do you have a specific module in mind? I tried to search on modulargrid for "quad VCA exponential" and got no hits.
Actually, Streams from Mutable Instruments looks really fun, although it has two channels, not four. Should be plenty for starting out!
Terrific, thanks. That's very encouraging. I'll get some more stackcables. :)
M
Thanks for your reply! What does not sell you in terms of the dynamic functionality? If you don't mind me asking. Rubicon sounds like a very nice option, hadn't given it much thought
Lugia,
Those suggestions of yours ( regarding the interaction between sub-chains ) are exactly the type of thing I've been trying to wrap my head around. All have been really helpful ideas that have lead to me to rethink my mental map of how the system operates as a whole.
Thanks again for the feedback.
cheers,
-m
So far, so good! This is definitely on the right track. DO make sure and get some sort of isolated stereo out module for your level step-down as well as isolating out any noise/hum/crap. Happy Nerding's got this one that I really dig, fits in 6 hp, and it gives you two stereo busses in with an extra level control...great for parallel processing your final mix with some FX and having direct control over the FX return. Plus, nice metering and a 1/4" stereo headphone out as well. A reverb might be nice, too...check that Purrtronics digital that came out some months back, as it has a mono-in/stereo-out architecture that would mesh really well with that second stereo bus on the HN module.
Solid...although, the Morgasmatron won't do much for you on dynamics. However, it's a killer dual filter, with roots in the Korg MS-20 pair, albeit massively expanded in functionality. For ambient-type work, it's a damn good choice to keep timbral content shifting in neat ways; should play nicely with the Rainmaker. The Jellysquasher is probably what you meant...however, I'm not 100% sold on keeping dynamic functionality in the modular. You might find that there's some outboard choices that'll offer a better result.
Instead of the Jellysquasher, consider adding some sort of complex oscillator, both as part of the voicing and as a possible audio modulation source. Sticking with Intellijel, if you can source up a used original Rubicon (also 18 hp, the new "II" version is 20), that would kill. It'd give you some very complex FM capabilities via its thru-zero modulation, as well as lots of complex crossmod potential.
DFAM's never struck me as seeming really 'drummy', though...although it's an excellent sequencer and has some very worthwhile functions in of itself. Delptronics, however, makes a very compact solution with their LDB-2e/2x combo. In 12 hp, you get the main components of the Roland-esque analog percussion spectrum plus some ample control over pitches, etc. That plus the Eloquencer would take care of a good chunk of that need.
I'll second that VCA sentiment. Look for something that gives you several in a tight space, preferably switchable between linear (good for CVs, not bad for audio) and exponential (better for audio due to our exponential perception of apparent loudness, but more difficult to control for CVs if they can even pass DC at all). Plus, most multiVCA modules also function in various ways as mixers, which you'll also find come in handy.
You also save a bit on the Quad VCA...use that to buy a couple more patchcords. Otherwise, I'm having trouble finding anything I'd change here save for the overall layout to get the patch flow a bit clearer. Nice job!
If you're getting the Batumi, get the Poti expander. It's cheap and gives you instant access to different wave shapes, sync/reset options, etc. Most of these functions can be changed by pulling the module and moving jumpers without the Poti. But why suffer that kind of torment?
-- Ronin1973
Hi Ronin1973, I’ve had the Batumi for some time now. I thought about getting the Poti for awhile because ya, pulling it in and out to change waveforms was kind of annoying.. But then some months ago this kind person made this alternate firmware(http://voltexture.hiho.jp/batumi-individual-wavebank-firmware-v1-0-released/)! This added random waveform types(which is typically all I use now) for the middle outputs as well as a new layer of menu to control the type. The added complexity paired with the expert firmware made it a bit of a learning curve, but now that I have it down it feels totally worth it.
Hey Placebo, the Z-DSP's internal rate clock is also clockable to an external input. That means you can get some grunginess out of it. I've had mine for about a month but it hasn't seen much action... yet.
If you're getting the Batumi, get the Poti expander. It's cheap and gives you instant access to different wave shapes, sync/reset options, etc. Most of these functions can be changed by pulling the module and moving jumpers without the Poti. But why suffer that kind of torment?
Some great ideas here Luigia! The slinky idea reminded me of a spring reverb I owned for a short while(the Ekdhal Moisturizer) which had exposed springs. I really enjoyed running sounds through, even something like a simple drum track, and then playing with the springs in different ways, even just breathing on it would yield cool effects.. Now I miss that weird machine..
On a side note, I just posted a thread about a system makeover I'm planning and I would greatly appreciate some of your thoughts(if you have the time)!
Sorry OP for the total hijacking..
I'm hoping I can bother some of you for some thoughts on my system makeover plan.
So far my strategy has been to cram as much capability into my small case as possible, but it's ended up just feeling like a bit of a mess, and with all the micro sized module's and mini pots it's also become a PITA to play.
So my plan is to simplify down my system to a more clear and sensible instrument, which will hopefully be more inviting to create on.
Here is the plan:
Quick rundown:
-I like the sound and the immediacy of the STO's, I only have one currently but I think 2 will compliment each other nicely.
-I have one 3 sisters currently. I really enjoy using it as a sound source, but also as a filter. So having 2 only makes sense.
-The SY0.5 is mainly for percussion.
-The Piston Honda will typically be for drones or waveshaping.
-The Koma VCA and the Dynamix will provide shaping and control over the sound sources.
-The Chronoblob and Clouds will be the systems effects(leaving room for clouds v2 here).
-From my little understanding of it the Cold Mac seems like it can fill many many useful utility duties, in 8hp it seems a no brainer for a small setup otherwise lacking in utilities.
One more thing to note is the bottom row is in its own seperate sequencing skiff, so that extra space is an illusion :p
I feel like it looks good.. But my modulargrid intuition has failed me before so my trust in my own judgement is feeling a bit shaken..
So please, any thoughts/critiques are very much appreciated!
Feeling better about this build, after a previous post took many suggestions into consideration. The case would be a Intellijel 7u 104hp. On the 1u row I have Audio I/O, a reverb, a multiplier, a mixer and some noise tools. Added the Yarns for slaving the rig to an ERM Multiclock signal and having it in sync with the rest of the studio.
Sound sources are the Intellijel Plonk, Erica Synths Pico Voice, Pluck, Vowel, Mutable Instruments Grids, I feel it's varied in the type of sounds I can generate in an overall patch. For sequencing I have the Eloquencer, For modulation I have the Maths, a Korb-Modular DLFO and a Mogasmatron. For VCAs I'm using a Quad VCA and a Streams. For my main delay unit I'd use the Rainmaker. Finally for some dynamics processing I have a Morgasmatron.
Feel this is a balanced setup that can have many possibilities. Of course any opinions and changes you'd make are very welcome. If I missed something essential to this build please let me know so I can work on it.
When you buy a module... the Lugia Law of modular states you'll want to buy another one.
Starting out in a skiff means you're going to box yourself in in no time. There are tons of great modules out there but are exclusively in larger HP forms. If you put a couple of these larger beasts in your rack, you quickly run out of room. Having to slave your next purchase based on available HP puts a serious ding in your set-up when first starting out.
I think the Tip Top Mantis offers 208 HP (104HPx2) for around $300US. I would start in something like that. The balance between price and space seems about right.
I went with the Intellijel 7U 104 case (then bought another one). I still weigh the pros and cons of my decision... but I really wanted the 1U for attenuverters (Intellijel Quadrats). Inverting CV, mixing, etc... I paid the premium to have that.
Recommending a filter is like recommending a wife. It's more about what you like.
In my personal set-up I have an Intellijel Morgasmatron and a Roland (Maleko Heavy Industries designed it) 505 filter module. The Intellijel covers the basic multimodes. The 505 is there because I love the Roland filter sound. The next filter will be the Joranalogue filter. I might pick up a Doepfer Wasp since they are like $100 and have their own unique flavor.
I also have a Xaoc Batumi with the Poti expander for my LFOs. It serves its purpose. But I might wander into something more traditional with PWM for the square wave as well as a reset gate.
I have other gear that can generate LFOs: Intellijel Rubicon II, Tip Top Z3000, Expert Sleeper Disting, Ornaments & Crime, 1010 Music Toolbox Sequencer, Expert Sleepers FH2... so I'm pretty much covered for all my LFOs at the moment.
The bottom-line is this... whatever you decide... you will be wrong. You will have good relationships with some modules and bad relationships with others. Keep the good ones, find alternatives to the "bad" ones.
Get the micro-versions of the Mutable stuff and buy a Eurorack module capable of mixing your signals.
What's the relationship between those vendors and Mutable Instruments? I like Olivier Gillet's work and I like the idea of my dollars supporting MI.
But you'll want an envelope generator and a VCA to go with it.
If I am accumulating gear gradually, I can start out with overdubbing and use the Neutron's VCA and envelopes, I think.
Thanks again for your helpful responses.
-- RelaxedNapper
Mutable Instruments believes in open-sourcing their code. Those people crafting their own versions of Braids, Clouds, etc. aren't violating MI as far as I know. MI isn't your typical manufacturer. You can buy the micro modules and other from respected retailers like Detroit Modular and Perfect Circuit. MI supports the DIYers.
As far as I know, the Neutron only has one VCA. "You can never have enough VCAs." Take that to heart. VCAs can control audio as well as every kind of CV. I would say to try your approach and see if it is satisfactory. You can always try it and buy more modules if you're unhappy with the results.
Change vails for QuadVCA, I had both but realized for myself that the vails is quiet difficult to handle, very sensible
I am a noob getting into Eurorack, and I have spent some time googling and reading. I have put together a final "perfect rack." (Since it changes daily, this is obviously a bit of a joke).
The general idea is to start with something relatively simple that does a bit of everything. This will let me explore and develop my own style, and figure out which coast I prefer. I would love any comments or suggestions to help me along.
I also play electric bass, and I would like to plug it in and play along with the modular (I already have the Sewastopol II, and its "export" actually drives headphones, so it works well as an input / output module).
Thanks all for a great community.
M
Second hand modules was the way to go for me .
I just stuck to “factory built” modules from larger manufacturers ie doepfer ect.
Only been bitten once in 32 modules with worn sockets and it wasn’t a hard fix .
Depends. If the discontinued devices are from a major maker, such as Mutable Instruments, Intellijel, etc, there's not likely to be any worries, plus these may in fact be easy and cheap finds on the used market (in some cases). But when it comes to smaller boutique makers, it's likely best to stick to ones whose output has been ongoing over the long term in case technical issues arise. Also, if the device in question was a kit build, be very cautious unless the build was done by a builder with extensive experience. My Digisound 80, for example, was a kit build...but it had been restored and cased/powered by the legendary Kevin Lightner (RIP), one of the greatest synth techs ever. So even though it was a kit build, Kevin had gone over all of the functions and corrected any faults that might have been present because...well, that's what he did. He was a picky guy in that way.
Again, as with anything used, it's a caveat emptor kinda joint. When first getting a "new" used module, check all of the functions, controls for noise, dropouts, jumpy control behavior (all of which tend to indicate dirty controls, etc), and make sure the patchpoints are snug and electrically solid. If you have an oscilloscope (definitely a tool serious modularistas ought to have on hand!), examine LFO and VCO waveforms for spectral purity and proper waveshapes. Also, VCFs can be checked similarly by bringing them into self-resonance and examining the output for a good, clean sine wave. Mixers and VCAs can be checked by sending known pure waveforms through them and looking for distortion components, and waveshaper functions can be checked against their settings by observing how they manipulate a simple waveform. Dirty pots and switches can usually be sorted out with some of Caig Labs' wonder-drug, DeOxit, and badly-performing jacks can either be spritzed with that same magic formula, or you can obtain a jack burnisher to scrub crud off of contacts.
Correct. Overdriving a simple waveform such as a sine or triangle will result in distortion, but in a simple waveform this actually translates into adding harmonics...which is the same thing a waveshaper circuit is specifically designed to do via wavefolding, rectification, clipping, or basic ol' nonlinear distortion. With a more complex sound like drums, where there's not a specific pitch as such, this can result in a heavier, more 'crunchy' sound. Quite a few producers that I knew back in the days of the rave scene would use input preamp overload on their TR-909 kick signal to push that sound into the range of the fuzzy, semi-pitched BOOM that would make the dancefloor go crazy. In fact, if you listen to a lot of Aphex Twin's earlier work up to around the time he released "On", he employs a host of "bad/wrong" production and engineering techniques that wind up making a "right" in that it defined that crazed, ultra-hard acid sound he championed, most notably on his "Dice Man" and "JOYREX" releases.
-- LugiaYou are the wikipedia of sound great Ligia you open my mind!
-- Lucapiombo92
Lugia*
Correct. Overdriving a simple waveform such as a sine or triangle will result in distortion, but in a simple waveform this actually translates into adding harmonics...which is the same thing a waveshaper circuit is specifically designed to do via wavefolding, rectification, clipping, or basic ol' nonlinear distortion. With a more complex sound like drums, where there's not a specific pitch as such, this can result in a heavier, more 'crunchy' sound. Quite a few producers that I knew back in the days of the rave scene would use input preamp overload on their TR-909 kick signal to push that sound into the range of the fuzzy, semi-pitched BOOM that would make the dancefloor go crazy. In fact, if you listen to a lot of Aphex Twin's earlier work up to around the time he released "On", he employs a host of "bad/wrong" production and engineering techniques that wind up making a "right" in that it defined that crazed, ultra-hard acid sound he championed, most notably on his "Dice Man" and "JOYREX" releases.
-- Lugia
You are the wikipedia of sound great Ligia you open my mind!
Thanks for all the (extensive, wow!) replies. In the meantime, I got a few new modules and updated to another rack (9U 114HP). I've told myself to restrain myself to start filling up both, so I will be using the 3U only for now. ;)
Batumi being added.
About discontinued modules: Should I avoid these in my system?
Ah, you're right...hard to read the Erica stuff when it's itsy-bitsy...
You might not want to keep the subchains as separate as that. It may make more sense from the point of interaction between parts to work out some sort of structure that allows more than just a time-base between all parts. For example, a shifting LFO curve in one part could, via a comparator, switch on an action in a second part when the LFO was above (or below) X level. Say, if your VCF cutoff in the first part went above a certain partial frequency via that LFO, the same LFO could start a sequence via the comparator gate, then stop it when the VCF's cutoff dropped. And going further, that triggered sequencer part could, in turn, activate some other timing function (such as ratcheting) on another sequenced part. And so on, ad infinitum. Best way to proceed, from my experience, is to start by mapping the basic action of a part, then identifying points in that part's signal and/or control chains where the insertion of something that 'reads' the activity could be used to interact with another. And at the same time, identifying points of 'action change' in the affected parts, and figuring out how you want the changes to occur, etc. Usually, these sorts of system require a great deal of control density, which you're definitely getting toward in this build, but it might make sense to spread out more for the ease of programmability and interaction with the system as a whole. Since you like the Erica stuff, have a look at some of their cases...the deep 2 x 126hp will allow you to stretch out more, add a few more bits, and provide more than adequate power while avoiding any depth conflicts.
