Hey Ronin1973

Oh wow, the Ornaments and Crime really does a lot of things I want. Also the shift register is back in with it... I am not really into soldering, but I saw Michigan Synthworks build those thingies for you (if you can wait for 21 days...). Looks like the uScale is more easy to use, but O_c does so much more... hmm.

To make space for the O_c I had to do some compromises... less VCA and ADSR. Now I have 6 VCA and 5 ADSR sources, one ADSR is a Tiptop Z4000 and 2 are more simple ones from the Doepfer A-142-2... Clicking on the rack should get you the new setup. Also the Ladik dual lag is back in, which I imagine handy for the Z8000 out into non-pitch CV.

With both the PAM and O_c there seem to be plenty of LFO outs now, nice.

Happy I could help with the HN mixer. It was initially proposed by Lugia. I was between Roland 531, Verbos Scan&Pan and this one...

Hi there.

If you're going with the Intellijel 104HP 7U case, it has 1/4" inputs and outputs on the case already. You won't need to add the 1U jack interface that's to the left of the volume control module. The TipTop Z4000 ADSR has CV inputs that can control each stage of the envelope. The Doepfer saves space but you're going to get sick of those jumpers in a heartbeat. The Z4000 is 8HP, so two of them equates to 16HP. The Intellijel dual ADSR is 14HP. I would substitute one of the Intellijel VCA modules for something else that's a little slimmer like the Zlob 6 channel VCA. It's slimmer and gives you six VCAs instead of four. They aren't as flexible as the Intellijel, but you've got that covered with the first Intellijel VCA.

If you can spare even more room, get rid of the uScale and replace it with a micro Ornaments and Crime. It has a quantizer built in, plus a bunch of other features when you're not needing a quantizer.

That Pan Mix by Happy Nerding is an awesome find! I was seriously considering the Roland 6 channel mixer because of the panning... but it also has mutes. But the CV control of panning and volume makes the Pan Mix a bit more attractive. Thanks so much for posting it. You've helped ME out. :)

The purpose for this patch was to derive as many Drum sounds as can fit in the available 6 Summed Audio Outputs on the Modular (4 from Quad VCA+2 Additional on Mix 3).

More simultaneous drum sounds are possible if Mother 32, Plaits, and an additional Disting are used, but these may not be as modulatable as there are no remaining VCA's (other than simple ones using Maths Channels 2 and 3).

Sending simple noise into the Quad VCA with closed Amplifiers, and CVing with Channels 1 and 4 of Maths is particularly effective for expressive changes in "snare" drum length (can then use Peaks as a Hi-Hat). To create a better composition, program and sequence States using Planar 2 as an anchor to bring you back to State 1 ("Chorus" State).

Colour Scheme

Tempi Channel Outs
- Purple Stackcables

M32 Assign Out (Tempo) into Tempi
- Long Black

Disting Outs
- A is Medium Yellow
- B is Long Yellow

Dixie II + Rings Outputs
- Medium Yellow

Cinnamon, Peaks Outputs
- Short Yellow

Maths Unity Channel Outputs
-Short White

Quad VCA 4/MIX Out and Mix 3 Out
- Short Orange

Disting Parameters
- H7 Noise
- 2 Simple Blended Noise outputs from A and B
- Would have liked to have a Second Disting, in order to use one for Noise and another for MIDI-to-CV until I am comfortable with using the Mutant Brain.
- Noise Lengths are modified manually by the Fall parameters on Channels 1 and 4 of Maths

Tempi Parameters
- Default Bank 1 State 5: Clock Divider Even
- Leading Tap Tempo Enabled, but Tempo is fed in this case by M32 Assign Out (sending clock rate pulses, M32 Assign Setting #2)

Colour Scheme

Tempi Outputs
- Long Green

Data Tempo Output
- Short Black

Ears Gate Out into Buff Mult CH. 1, and CH. 1 Outputs
- Input & output 2 are Long Yellow
- output 1 is Short Yellow

Quad VCA 4/MIX Out into Buff Mult CH. 2, and CH. 2 Outputs
- Purple Stackcable

M32 VCA Out
- Medium Red

ADSR Out to M32 Buff Mult, and Outputs
- Mult In, Output 1 are Medium Blue
- Mult Output 2 is Medium Grey

Dixie II to Cinnamon CV In
- Medium Orange

Maths to Rings 1v/oct
- Short Green

Rings ODD Out
- Short Grey

Cinnamon Lowpass Out
- Short Black

Only 1 State is used, with Audio Rate Leading Tempo set by DATA (920 BPM).

Channel Configuration:
4 channels total (5-6 are muted)
1 & 4 are ON, Mod-disabled
2 & 3 are ON, Mod-enabled

Program Edit (Mod) Page:
Shift is OFF (CH. 4 unlit)
Run/Stop is set to Run/Stop Mode (CH. 5 red)
Run/Stop is Toggled (CH. 6 unlit)

Sequencers: the Mod, the Main, the Random, and the Drums - and the Quantizer!

EDITED Nov 18th 2018, 00:07

Hi there

I thought I'd give you an update of my thoughts. As before, first I want to plan a 4-voice style rack with it's own sequencer. So here is the setup, as it looks now:

1. 1U row: Attenuverter and mults for basic stuff. I know there are inline versions but I want to have at least a few of these in the rack. The audio I/O (jacks / pre-amp) also moved to the 1U section.

2. 3U row: PAM for clock generation / modulation into Z8000, gates and other purposes. Then a dual lag, 2x Twin Waves, S-P Filter and 4x VCA; mostly unchanged form before. I eventually ditched the KOMA VCA, now I am taking the Doepfer A-132-4 into account, mainly because it's super easy on the HP, but still not super sure of it. uBurst/clouds for effects (I think the only module form my initial setup...). Next a 2xLPG (duh, how could I have missed that) and the HN mixer for stereo out.

3. 3U row. TipTop Z8000. Its cheaper than Rene2, has 10 CV outs and Matrix control. I saw a few demos and I am almost sold for that one. Mix4 to mix some or all of the 4 VCOs, moved down because no space upstairs. 4x ADSR, two of them with VC over each step, 4xLFO. Last not least: Wogglebug for random CV and gates.

The case: I think in the end it will be the 7U inellijel (2x104 HP, so more space than this setup). But at this time I don't have the monies for it. I will get the Doepfer DIY and 2 extra rails for 7U. Otherwise I won't have the money for the first modules.

So, for those still interested: Am I still missing something? What would you do different?

OK, in the meantime I get really hyped for this. If my boss decides for a bonus this year I will start building in January.

• Edit: I think for the Z8000 I need a quantizer, which I added instead of the 2x Lag (which will be missed). Also now a Inellijel 4xVCA instead of the Doepfer because they seem little bid more varibale (lin. & exp. and build in attenuators). Removed the TipTop ADSR for the Doepfer ADSR to make that space, they have at least on CV over one Phase (choose via jumpers).

EDITED Nov 18th 2018, 21:05

Some of the problem, I think, comes down to users who post modules and don't make a selection as to whether a module is "currently available", "concept/prototype", or "discontinued". If people would show a lot more discipline about doing that when posting something new, then it would be easy to use that existing filter to deselect the unwanted entries.

Using the "currently available" filter in searches does help some...but then one runs into the issue of modules that are definitely available but not labelled as such. Again, this is a user issue as I note above.

reidv does make a good point, also...if you're posting something that was a one-off and which is only in your rig, definitely use that "unlisted" checkbox unless you actually plan on making said module(s) available for sale.

Bought a Circuit Abbey Invy from @Darylc. He sent it out right away and it arrived in excellent condition. A+ transaction

Please for the love of god. It's such a mess.

Please also:

• Make "Show other/unknown Modules" unchecked by default
• Or make it a setting.

He finaly replied. The modules just have been sent. Or so he pretends, because he gave us no tracking number and do not answer to our last mail asking for it. Too bad he treat his customer this way. His modules, even if digital, are interesting, but we won't buy anything from him anymore.

Cable Colour Scheme

Planar 2
- ABCD Out = Long Red
- ABCD In = Stackcable Green
- Gate Out = Short White
- XY Outs = Stackcable Purple

Tempi
- CH. 1-4 Out = Stackcable Green
- State Gate In = Short White
- Mod In = Long Black
- Tempo In = Medium White

Buff Mult
- CH. 1 = Long Blue (both in and outs)
- CH. 2 = Medium Yellow In, Long Yellow Outs

DATA
- Inputs = Long Red
- Mult Outs = Long Black
- Tempo Outs = Medium Grey/White

Disting
- X In = Medium Grey/White
- Y In = Medium Red
- A Out = Medium Yellow
- B Out = Long Yellow

M32
- LFO Rate In = Stackcable Purple
- VCA Out = Medium Green
- VCO Mod In = Short Green
- MULT 2 and VCF Cutoff = Short Yellow
- MULT 2 = Stackcable Yellow
- MULT In = Long Yellow

Plaits/Rings
- Outs (ODD in Rings) = short Orange

Cinnamon
- Lowpass Out = Short Red

Peaks
- OUT1 = Short Blue

Quad VCA
- 4/MIX = Long Blue

Mix3
- Out = Short Black

TEMPI Parameters
- Mod Shift functionality is turned off (although not necessary as Shift takes the State Gate Input when both Shift and Run/Stop are enabled)
- Mod Run/Stop is set to Run/Stop mode (red) and Toggled (led 6 off), so that channels can be turned on and off externally by tapping Ears
MOD-Enabled Channels per State
1. 1, 2, 3, 4
2. 2, 4
3. 1, 3
4. 3, 4
5. 1, 2
6. 1, 4
7. 2, 3
8. 2, 3, 4
9. 3, 4, 1
10. 4, 1, 2
11. 1, 2, 3
12. 1
13. 2
14. 3
15. 4
16. none

EDITED Nov 18th 2018, 03:38

Do at least make sure you have some way of locking up clocks between Ableton and the modular, though. You'll find that to be extremely useful. Even so, I'd still consider some way to pass more than just a clock to the modular from Live; the fact that M4L is in there (depending on which version you're using) opens up massive possibilities for modular control that will definitely exceed human limitations.

Thanks to @PinPinKula, the deal for a Clouds was ok, the only flaw is a scratch on the panel, but functionality is ok....Maybe next time ask if the panel is in good condition...

Thanks for your answer.

In our case he didn't even reply. So we've contacted our bank to cancel the payment. Hope this will work.

EDITED Nov 15th 2018, 11:48

Just had a great transaction with @lucoli, great communication and shipment. Totally recommended!

Same problem here, except that he never answered. What did you find if I may ask ?
-- DarkEnergyLounge

I sent emails twice and could get the reply from him immediately. He told me that will ship the items soon with tracking numbers, but there was nothing from him. It was almost a week.

I will make a contact credit company next week.

Same problem here, except that he never answered. What did you find if I may ask ?

Great post Luigia.

Reading this 6 months ago before I dove in might just have deterred me, not that I have regrets per se. #5 hits hard.

Not gonna bother with most nobs right now, there's a recording I have on my phone for some of that. Rene is in harmonic minor key. Channel 4 is divided by 4. Could also be put on same tempo and/or put in Optomix strike instead of Echophon freeze. Tempi and Pressure Points both optional, latter is just for pressing and messing around with pitch.

Great post. Great post indeed.

Can I add a seventh comment:

7) Time. Like with any instrument, it takes time... a shitload of time to get good at it. Every module you add is another layer of complexity. In order to get the most out of your set-up, you'll have to dive DEEP into every module, even the simplistic ones. You'll have to create a TON of test patches to get a feel for different attributes. The more complex the module, the more time you'll invest. Even if you have years of experience with software synths or polyphonic synths, you're still going to have to put in a ton of work.

Ronin, no worries about the comments. I actually really appreciate the candor and am here precisely for the kinds of advice and info that you won't get from demo videos on a manufacturer's website.

I also should have noted that the goal isn't to use a hybrid DAW/Eurorack setup in the long run. Really the use of Ableton as a sequencer will be for early stages getting that knob wiggling time in and getting experience passing modulation CV around.

Thanks, again.

I looked at the specs on the VCA module here:
http://www.doepfer.de/a1324.htm

Any control voltage above +5v pushes you above unity and into amplification. If you have anything that can measure voltages, you may want to check your modulation source to see if you are, in fact, hitting the VCA harder than +5v in CV. That would explain your unwanted distortion. You can either attenuate the audio signal or attenuate the CV signal.

Using another VCA or attenuator (like an attenuverter) will help keep the signal in check to avoid distortion.

EDITED Nov 14th 2018, 17:18

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but perhaps not. Checking the links provided with each module takes me to a website where there's no information on availability, pricing, and so on. The MG listings show prices and claim availability, but the actual company website doesn't seem to indicate...well, much of anything. The module listings there seem to all link to a Github site...while at the same time, some of those same MG listings show those same modules as being available as a prebuilt module or DIY kit.

In short, this is a tad screwy. Perhaps the user who posted these can clarify things?

HI!
Pretty new to modular here.
I've just started my way into this with a Ants! and a Digitakt for some sampling, percussion, sequencing function.
I have finally put some money on the side to start to expand Ants! but even if i have a desktop mixer because some space issue i was thinking to sell it to go modular instead.
Now, I've checked that i would be able to get probably a 0 coast as a second osc and a Field kit fx as a mixer and mangler, i think i would have enough to fund that.
I'm wondering, though, if any mixer module could carry the digitakt line or not.
Do you think it could be easily done just from digitakt outs to any mixer module in, or i necessarily need an interface like intellijel i/o or others to do that?
And anyway, what u think about using modular mixers in general?
Personally i find really interesting the idea of a driven cv mixer for experimenting on performances but i still have a too limited knowledge.
I've looked for my answer in sooo many threads but they re almost all about the contrary, so modular trough desktop mixers, or about desktop synth through modular fx, is there any difference with mixer than fx?
I'm still a bit confused.
Moreover, i was adopting the idea of a field kit fx as well because his mixer capability, is stated on Koma site ''4 Channel Mixer with VCA’s and tone control'', does this means that any vca could possibly act as a mixer?
Thanks!!!

SPAM

My initial thought on my build was that I would save some cash and let my DAW handle the heavy sequence lifting. It seemed a little daft to have an entire MIDI capable DAW and then replicate a portion of it inside of a Eurorack case.

I was wrong.

Hooking it up to the DAW really impacted my workflow. It seemed a better fit for augmented a piece created in a DAW with some Eurorack flavor than as part as a compositional tool. When I'm wiggling and standing there with a handful of patch cables, going to the DAW felt alien. Until the 1010 Music Toolbox comes, I've been using Ornament & Crime as a sequencer.

The point above is don't be afraid to be WRONG about your needs. Your going to order things that sound great on paper you won't use. I have a Lifeforms 8 step microsequencer that gets almost zero use. I bought a Behringer Neutron that rarely has an electron flowing through it. No matter how much planning and exploration you do. You're going to have some regrets. Take it slow, order a handful of things until you experience what direction you ultimately want to go in. You may find yourself... in a shotgun shack... with a beautiful wife... cursing set-up "A" you've spent a fortune on when in your heart you're really a set-up "B" kind of person... because you've found that's what inspires you around modular.

Sorry for the lecture. But responding helps me focus my thoughts as well as helping someone else on the ladder. I would wait on the Akemie's Castle but leave room for it in your rack. Get a feel for a smaller set-up and branch out.

If you don't need panning, you might want to consider Intellijel's Mixup - 4 channels in (2mono, 2stereo), 1 stereo out. They are chainable, they have mutes, and they're relatively cheap. And even if you get 2 of them, you end up with only 12hp.

Nicer Screenshots

The old screenshot server based on a semi-custom deprecated technology. New server should be a bit faster, makes better quality images and relies on standard technology (Node/Puppeteer) and for that reason is easier to maintain.

Ronin, thanks for the comments. The 531 mixer does seem to also be slightly future proofed with the six channels. People usually talk about expansion in terms of buying a larger case than one considers at first, but maybe this would apply to a mixer, too?

Thanks for the clarification on the Disting and the point about the Springray. The latter was completely not obvious and I would have missed that. Reverb modules feel pretty hard because they are fundamentally pretty simple (we all know what reverb sounds like), but as a newcomer without experience it seems hard to know which criteria to use to evaluate and make a choice.

The 1010 is a good suggestion, but with the 1u MIDI, I will also just be able to wire up to Ableton itself if I need that. And in fact, I plan to do just that early on as I get some experience with the first modules and before I get a modular sequencer.

Also respectfully agree on the active/passive mult. It is not a super big price to pay for future proofing.

If the Xaoc module is the Zadar, that looks really nice, too. Compact and the menuing doesn't look like it taxes the brain too much.

I will take your advice to heart about building in stages and letting the not-full case tell me what it needs.

Lugia, thank you for the feedback on the rack. I am going to dive into some of your suggestions from other threads and just ask the potentially stupid newbie questions. So please bear with me or ignore as you see fit...

It is noticeable that you refer to the Akemie's FM as "Chowning FM". Isn't all FM synthesis based on Chowning's work? Is there another kind of FM used in modular? Or are you are just highlighting the fact that the Akemie's is not a simple two oscillator FM with one carrier and one modulator? Just trying to make sure I am not missing anything.

Thanks for the recommendation about the multi-envelope modules. They look very interesting, but I worry that especially with the RADAR and A-143-2 that I don't have enough modulation sources to feed into them. This definitely highlights that a 104/7u case gets filled up incredibly quickly. Seems like the Malekko Quad Envelope or Intellijel Quadra could be space saving alternatives to the RADAR or A-143-2.

Thanks for the tip on the filtering. This raises more afraid-to-ask filter questions: I read/hear a lot about how great Wasp filters are. First, is the Doepfer one THE wasp filter, or is it a general category? Is a Wasp filter a good choice as one's only filter?

The Scan & Pan seems like a great option. One question about those comments: is there something specific about the Verbos mixer that is different from the Roland mixer in how it frees up the VCAs? i.e., would the Roland or any other mixer also free up VCAs?

For the Basimilus vs. Dial-ups, here is my thinking. The demos on the Moffenzeef website maybe don't sell it very well, but the Dial-Up does not seem to have the same range of sounds to my ears. It is not so much a glitch/noise drum that I am after. I am also drawn to the multiple waveforms and the harmonic sculpting and the potentially long decays that make it blur the lines between drum/percussion and bass/synth lines. One way I imagine using it would involve trying to morph a beat into a bass line in a song transition simply by turning the dials and that could free up some time to adjust settings on other voices while they have been taken out of the mix temporarily.

But another question to your point about the Metropolis not having enough gate/trig channels: could the clock divider be used to generate another gate/trig signal? The thing about the Metropolis that is so attractive to me is that it just makes sense. It is very clear how the core parts of the sequencer work. As someone new, I really worry about overloaded knobs and sliders where the state of the whole sequencer can be different from the current state knobs and sliders. And the Varigate 8+ seems like it could have that confusion for me.

Hi Sorid,

I just read your previous post. Three comments:

Did you ever consider the Expert Sleepers FH2 as your CV to DAW interface? It can output CV, gate, and clock. All outputs are available to be CV, gate, or clock (as well as LFOs and ADSRs). It's also expandable. I have one in my rack and like it. Though once you have your DAW booted, you have to quit your DAW to reconfigure it via the web interface. The onboard interface is a bit of a menu dive. However for the price and HP space, it's hard to beat. I also have a Temps Utile module. It can take a clock input and provide up to six clock outputs from /64 to x64. I believe Pamela's New Workout can provide the same if you're not comfortable with custom built stuff.

Zadar vs. Batumi. I think some features overlap but the Batumi is a quad LFO generator while the Zadar is more of an envelope generator. I own the Batumi with the Poti. I like it, but it's not as great as I thought it would be. I would consider having a traditional LFO as well if you're looking for real-time tweaking of values. It can be a little tricky when changing frequencies (faster/slower). The Zadar is in my wishlist due to the unique envelopes it can generate... but I also have the Intellijel dual ADSR. Having a traditional ADSR or two is also a good idea.

Also, buy a bigger case than you think you'll need. By all means add modules to your case like every HP is sacred. But when it comes time to expand, you'll get more value if you have rack space to spare. Of course, this means more upfront costs. But in my opinion it's worth it.

At some point you'll end up biting the bullet and hoping for the best. You might also want to develop a relationship with a reliable Eurorack dealer and ask for some help/suggestions as well. The good ones treat you like a client rather than a one-n-done customer.

First of all I saw that I need to learn much more about the basics of synthesis to delve further into modular builds. So I will play around with the Mini2S and learn with its internal patch bay.

None the less I of course played a little with the setup I posted before and the very useful information of Lugia:

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_783304.jpg?1542060111

For the case: A couple of days ago I stumbled over the 7U 208HP Intellijel case and thought this would be perfect. Possibly I will build with that one when I start, but for the beginning I decided to stick with the smaller 176 HP setup, to force myself to only include what I really need.

Since I had the most input about the VCOs, I first discarded the drums entirely. Actually I wanted to build something more on the drums side, but I think to go through a VCO pathway is better for the learning process. With the drums gone I also decided to discard the Minibrute in the setup entirely. I will have it at the time I start my first build, but I thought it is better to build a standalone thingy. With the Minibrute gone I need something for the input. And this was the first real problem. First I considered the Mutable Yarns because of the MIDI I/O and up to 4 CVs/Gates for the 4 voices. But in the demos I saw that changing the patterns on the fly gets a lot into menu delving. Next I took a look at the Rene2. It actually does what I want but it seems I need a clock input for it and of course this should be the Tempi. Together this takes a lot of space and is quite expensive. Next I thought about the Doepfer Dark Time Red. This of course is no Eurorack module but it does everything I want for an OK price with 2 CV and Gate outs + clock. In the end I included the Mutant Brain MIDI in in the setup. It has 4x CV for the Twin Waves and more than enough gate outs. I can play it with a MIDI keyboard or over the DAW. That's not perfect but perhaps someone of you has an idea. I am looking for something with min. 2 channels with 2x CV/Gate out, clock and best 16 steps with accessible (less menu stuff) pitch and gate control for each step.

Next I simpled down the build a little bid. I removed the RND, Dual Lag and Shifty. As core part the 2x2 Twin Waves and the Steiner-Parker VCF stay of course. I replaced the Doepfer 142-2 with the KOMA Dual VCA, because: Distortion and Mixing. With the 4x ADSR (s. later) I think I don't need the Doepfer AD/AR (?). The Twin Waves will now be mixed additionally with with the Levit8 (4>1 or 4>2 into KOMA>1) into the filter. I replaced one Doepfer 140-2 with an intellijel Dual ADSR because I like faders much more than knobs. This ADSR can be used for the voices while the 2 Dopfer ADSR can go to VCF cutoff/resonance and/or effects. Right now I consider 2x TipTop Z4000 for the 2nd Doepfer. In the end I also chose Batumi with Poti over Zadar: more control is better. Last I downgraded the 4x VCA to 2x uVCA and hope this will be enough (?).

For the effects I originally decided for Crush-Delay. Since it doesn't have stereo effects I discarded it for an Erica Pico DSP and the uBurst/Clouds. For the PanMix I was thinking about the Verbos Scan&Pan (better control) but decied for the PanMix in the end because of the more channels (2xPicoDSP,2xuBurst, 1-2x post VCF?). I thought about the HN TriTone for a moment, it could act as a post VCF EQ or an additional simple LP/HP filter (some voices over the Planet the others over TriTone into KOMA VCA +Distortion?). Still not sure about this one...

The price now is kinda affordable, also it would fit in an 6U 2x84HP DIY case for the beginning...

Are you sold on getting a RackBrute case? It's nice to have one mounted above your MiniBrute. But if you went with something like the Mantis, you get 208HP rather than 171HP (you sacrifice 5HP for the power supply). If you have the cash, the 7U 108HP Intellijel case is also worthy of consideration as well... you get 208HP of regular space plus 104HP of 1U and a metal lid for your case that will allow you to leave things patched. If you're working live, this will save some considerable time setting up.

I noticed Luigi's build dumps the Noise Engineering stuff. How important are those modules to you?

Even if you get a Zadar, you'll want at least one traditional ADSR unit. Menu diving isn't a lot of fun. You might consider a Tip Top Z4000 as an alternative to the Doepfer. It's only one channel (make it two if you have the space). I believe it's stage of the ADSR can be manipulated by CV, so you can control the length of each stage via CV/sequencer. If you want to make sounds that evolve, you may want ADSRs with this ability.

There are no wrong ways to go about it... only varying levels of disappointment. Start in earnest as you're getting intimate with your modules and learning about their capabilities as well as YOUR capabilities.

The Roland 531 offers six channels of mixing plus pans and pan automation (CV) on every channel. You may or may not want to ditch it depending on your anticipated needs.

The Disting mk4 can only be dialed into one set-up at a time. So you can't use it as a filter and a distortion effect at once. You have a little space left in the rack as-is. I think there's enough room for a 2HP filter.

If you're coming from Ableton you may want to consider a 1010 Music Toolbox as your sequencer rather than the Metropolis. It takes up less space and the workflow is similar to a DAW rather than a classic modular sequencer. That will give you more space for other modules. The springray is just an interface for a spring reverb tank. So you'll have to haul it around with your rack. If that's not a problem, cool. If it is, you can probably replace the SpringRay with something DSP based that is smaller.

The cost between a passive 1U mult and an active one isn't enough to go with the passive. I'd go active and not worry about it. (respectfully disagreeing with Lugia).

That Atlantis module is the real pig in HP real estate, I'd sacrifice first (personal opinion). It's a self-contained synth voice (oscillator, filter, VCA, etc.). So you may be better off using the space for a dedicated filter, another dedicated oscillator, and perhaps some other modulation/envelopes.

Xaoc is coming out with a new envelope generator (digita), with four envelopes. I'd check that out as well and see if it fits into what you're after.

I just started a second 104HP 7U case and most of the space is already accounted for. So you'll really want to consider the size of the modules you've selected, their value, and any need to expand. No matter what you do... you'll feel like you're "wrong" about your choices and then rethink your plans about 4-5 times. Best bet is to build in stages rather than all-in so you can rethink your plans once you've got some knob wiggling time under your belt.

Stages and Maths would be OK normally, but the Akemie's is going to eat envelopes for breakfast. Remember: Chowning FM is very envelope-intensive...that's how you get your timbral shifts within the duration of an event, by applying multistage envelopes to a lot of the oodles of parameters. If I were you, I'd be looking at a couple of modules that have a lot of envelope generator density, such as Qu-bit's Contour, Doepfer's A-143-2, or a combo of Erogenous Tones' RADAR and Ping. That'd really make the FM pop and jump. Plus, yes, do consider a basic VCF for the Akemie's...the combo of FM + good analog filtering is something you'll really get fond of.

Also, I'd lose the Roland mixer. For one thing, it has its own 1/4" out pair, and your Intellijel cab has that already (plus you also have the Intelljel I/O in the build) and having another pair of outs seems redundant. My take there would be to go smaller, but still stay in stereo. Have a peek at Verbos' Scan & Pan...stereo, four in, VCA level control plus CVable panning, plus some neat capabilities for crossfade/channel scanning that are a bit unusual, all in 14 hp. That also solves your VCA question, given that that mixer can do your exponential audio VCA duties, leaving the Quad VCA free for CVs or other spot applications where a single free VCA is needed.

Hmm...that Basimilus...do you need it? You could jam a couple of Moffenzeef Dial-ups in that space and still have 2 hp left...or, you could reclaim a bit more space and add those plus a Muskrat for three channels of glitch/noise percussives. Or the Dial-ups and maybe a couple of Erica Pico Drums to combine conventional sampled drums with glitched-out ones. So, instead of going with the question of adding a filter for a single percussion source, see if you think that a few of them minus a filter might be more capable. That would require more gate/trig channels than the Metropolis would have, but since you're contemplating the Varigate 8+ already and that one would be more than ample, I'd say go with that instead.

Last, swap the buffered mult for Intellijel's passive one. You're not splitting CVs enough in here to worry about voltage 'sag', so regenerating CVs won't be necessary, and you can save a few bucks that way.

Yupperz...that's how you do it! Just keep in mind that rule of thumb about audio paths, and you'll be able to go totally bonkers with stereo patch creation.

It's not necessary to use a VCA before a filter. However, if you have one that can be placed there, you can then do things such as routing a single VCO through it and then into the VCO mix, and by giving that a longer attack than the post-VCF one, that'll let you add harmonics/VCO density/detunings/etc as a ramp-up as long as the note-on is present. Or even more things; that's just one example. VCAs are the unsung heroes of modular synthesis, really...they allow all sorts of trickery involving controlling audio levels, CV voltages, and the like that wind up upping the complexity of your patch. But it doesn't convert the VCO signal to audio; the VCO outputs audio itself, and the VCA (plus a modulating source) can control that audio level. Also, keep in mind that the six channels of the HN mixer also have VCAs for audio level control

The Synthacon VCF looks simple...but, having owned a real Steiner-Parker Synthacon for many years (traded it for an ARP 2600 quite some time ago), I can tell you that it's anything but, sonically. It's very versatile, does everything from punchy bass to rip-your-ears-off screeches, and pretty much anything in between. There are definite reasons why the Arturia Brutes use them; I put that in in there so that you have some sonic consistency, but with the added potential of two different simultaneous options with the same filter architecture.

The Klavis VCOs are rather deep, functionwise. But I wouldn't toss the Batumi out just because the Klavis oscillators can tune down into subaudio. Batumis can do tricks with their LFO signals (especially with the Poti expander) that lots of other oscillators can't, such as operating in a quadrature mode or in other phase-relational modes on a single frequency. They also have an internal divider mode that has lots of potential for clocking applications. And yes, you can do a lot with the Klavis VCOs + the Shifty, even beyond a 4-stage shift register. For instance, you can switch the Shifty into 2-stage, then have two VCOs per outputted CV for two-part duophony from the same initial incoming CV. And again, that's simply one possibility among numerous ones. Or as you noted, drop all four VCOs on the same pitch for big detuned punchiness. Or three, then have a single one on top as a lead. The list goes on, as you can see.

As for the Zadar...it's nice, but the fact is that, in the early stages of using modular, you're going to want to have modules that require lots of tweak attention and manual manipulation potential. I've always felt that it was more important to reach out and get a handful of parameter control rather than futz around with menus and assignable controls. And you will definitely find uses for the A-140-2 ADSRs (especially given their jumperable custom configuration possibilities) all over the place, even in tandem with the Batumi's LFOs. You could even use the latter to control the time aspects on the former, varying envelope lengths in cyclical fashion. But for the synthesis parts in that build, I went with keeping everything as 'hands-on' as possible, with the only menu-driven device being the Gatestorm sequencer for the percussion sounds, because sequencers need more direct visual feedback to the user than in most other modules, and also because it's very useful to have recall for your sequence loops and you need to see what's being recalled quickly when switching sequences while playing.

Anyway, this is an easier to learn build, as you've kinda noticed. It's possible to get really deep into sound design with this, but all of the controls remain grabable for the most part, making it also more adept for live work in addition to studio. And it's also a build that's more open-ended, allowing for further augmentation in the future with more cabs, devices, etc. Putting it together with the Mini 2S will result in a very potent sequencer-based rig indeed.

Here is another first time Eurorack build. How am I doing?

My goal: create an instrument/live performance system. Like many others, I have DAW fatigue. I love Ableton, but I strongly desire to get away from the pixels and mouse and into something both tactile and force myself into the live playing limits of a physical thing.

Background: I am an Ableton user and big Max device user. I always end up with many many M4L LFOs and Envelopes and find myself throwing together Max BEAP modules (especially the FM ones) together rather than using Ableton's prepackaged synths/instruments. I have also built some synths from scratch in Max following the Baz and Delicious tutorials. So I have a pretty good understanding of the signal flow and gates and VCAs that lines up with the tutorials I have been watching on modular.

Basic groove box: drums and two synth voices. I think I minimally need delay (Disting) and reverb (Springray) and distortion (via Pedal I/O) for effects. I want to be able to mix within the case.

Self-assessment: I'm gravitating towards the the really big modules and maybe that is coming at the expense of having enough utilities and modulation sources. Notably absent is a dedicated filter (!??!), but the Atlantis has its own. Disting has one, but I am not clear on how much I can make the Disting do multiple things at the same time.

Because it demonstrates my thought process, here are the things I have taken out of previous iterations, mostly but not entirely, in an effort to fight the Big Module Syndrome I suffer from: Erbe Verbe, Z-DSP, Plonk, basic Doepfer filters, Marbles, Hexmix.

I will be starting with the Intellijel case, 1 row modules and Atlantis and using an external MIDI sequencer to get familiar with the Atlantis while I research, plan and save for more modules. All comments welcome, including things like an order to purchase things cuz that won't happen all at once.

My immediate questions right now are:

• Are Stages and Maths enough modulation?
• Is the Quad VCA enough VCAs?
• Can I get away with no filter for the Basimilus and Akemie's Castle?
• Are there alternatives to the Metropolis to consider (Varigate 8, maybe)?
• What don't I know yet that is evident in this setup?

Thanks,
Steve

Thanks a lot for you effort! I read a bit into the modules you proposed and I think I can understand most of the principles. One question though: Is it necessary to use a VCA pre VCF? The VCA converts the voltages of the VCOs to an audio signal; right? Doesn't the filter also work with raw voltage signals?

For the modules: The Steiner-Parker filter fits nicely into the setup, I think. Actually when I did the first setup I wanted a more “normal” filter than the Belgrad, but couldn't find any on the first try. The Klavis Twin Waves also look super interesting. I can use them ARP like with the shifty, but I also could use them together as a true polyphonic voice and detune them in regards to each other, right?

I also saw the Zadar EG. Would you recommend it in this setup for ADSR? With the Zadar there also would be additional LFO sources. With the Twin Waves also having a LFO functions perhaps the Batumi + Poti as well as the 4x Doepfer ADSR can be replaced? The Doepfer ADSR seem more classic and straight forward (which I like a lot) but with the Zadar perhaps not necessary.

EDITED Nov 10th 2018, 15:31

bought a maths from @bernwerlin and the transaction was as smooth as they come... thanks!

Duudes biiig THX for your answers. You helped me a Lot : )))

I go from the Vco to the mixer to mix the Osc and Sub Osc to a mono signal than in the wasp filter and then i multiple it to two mono signal to go into the black hole and from there into attenuater and interface to record them in true stereo : ))

EDITED Nov 10th 2018, 12:37