Awesome! Thanks, that explained a lot. The Mixswitch looks so useful, I don't have a switch module.
I really need my Otool to tune up each time I play, but it could also live in a small box next to my modular... hmm...
Thanks. I did check out Ladik and they have a couple output modules with 1/4" outs. I almost bought a dual one for about $45 US, then realized I was overthinking it, and I found a 10' cable with 3.5mm to 1/4" on Amazon for under 10 bucks. If I run stereo outs from my modular in the future as it grows, then I'll likely pick up a Ladik dual output or even the Rosie since it has crossfade.
Thanks for the cheers, much obliged.
Um. I do see a small space for another module there at the bottom! I would have put an OScope in there personally, not sure how you can function without one.
I have a handheld oscilloscope but I don't use it much. That last 8hp is just a little pocket for my peace of mind. I could get another module if I wanted to and that makes not getting any more modules feel better somehow.
What do you use a Phase Locked Loop for?
I use it either to make nice sequences a little bit less polished or to dub sequences. Sometimes is works a bit like a slew (but with audio) and sometimes it makes things sound a bit crazy. Here are a couple of raw recordings where the PLL is utilized heavily: https://we.tl/WvIzgQqVdg
That Klavis Mixswitch looks pretty interesting, and you've got 2x of em. How do you use it?
I love this module. So good value. I use it as a switch of both CV and audio, a sub octave generator and a sequencer.
I am not sure why I would simultaneously want to use Lin and Exp CV on a VCA, what is that used for?
I use them for treating sound with two CV signals. Say an envelope and a LFO at the same time.
Good to know about Vietnam and Buchla, Lugia! Yes, I was against the Vietnam war as well. That is true, Vietnam has different mindset than the greedy evil Chinese empire. I have a few Vietnam made products that are quite good and well made like my Vox amp.
Unfortunately, I don't have 30k lying around to splurge on Buchla Skylab and Buchla Rhythm gear which is what you really need to be able to create real music like what Suzanna Ciani, Alessandro Cortini, Kaitlyn Aurelia Smith and Subotnik do since they have these high end Buchla modular rigs. Not sure how these people got so lucky to score the money and Buchla gear? I read their bios and they seemed to be in the right place at right time and super lucky and not born wealthy.
As an American, I do prefer to support people in my own country if possible of course.
PLL: glitch-device extraordinaire. You feed it a simple oscillator signal, and the PLL will lock to it to drive the module's internal VCO/F/A circuit. But feed it weird things, and it goes NUTS. Mistracking, craziness...like the MS-20 percussion thru input trick on 'roids!
And VCAs that can do linear and exponential are great...expo for audio, to follow how we percieve 'loudness', linear to screw around with CVs.
No worries on Buchla now...Foxtone bought out BEMI and vowed to bring the company back to the same ideas/principles that Don had, and thus far they appear to be making good on that.
As for communists...eh, I've actually entertained the idea of relocating to Hanoi. I have no problem with those politics as long as the government cares about the people and their culture, which Vietnam does. They're nowhere near as money-maniacal as the CCP has become, and actually toe more of a proper socialist line than China these days. Hanoi's new music scene is starting to percolate, too...it's kind of turning into a SE Asian take on Prague, with the leftover French colonial touches that the Vietnamese kept because, well, those were the neat parts.
And besides, if I were ever to do a modular company, that would be an awesome place for it. They know the tech, the government likes investment like that, there's a skilled labor pool that can do it, and the like.
Hopefully we can start making products again in the USA that are quality and affordable.
I plan to go back to school for an electronics degree so I can build my own custom music gear for fun.
Small scale machines now provide the way to fabricate electronics and other gear at low price point. It used to require a billion dollar fab wafer shop and machines but now for a few grand you can buy a quality CNC and PCB machine to produce own hardware.
Personally, I am against sending my hard earned cash to a communist evil government that abuses its people like Communist Red China. But that is me and too many people only look at low cost. Why not just save up for a quality piece of gear? Buchla is super expensive but nothing really sounds like it. Then again, I hate how BEMI screwed Don Buchla over big time right before he died so that gives me pause to buy a Buchla as well.
Ok, after spending way too much time looking at this.... I have some questions
What do you use a Phase Locked Loop for?
That Klavis Mixswitch looks pretty interesting, and you've got 2x of em. How do you use it?
Also, the Tallin VCA seems pretty unique, with some different distortion options. I really love XAOC's Batumi. I am not sure why I would simultaneously want to use Lin and Exp CV on a VCA, what is that used for?
I don't see any problem there, nope. I discourage people from getting a small rack if they're beginning with this because it's a good idea to have a broad-based starter rig when you first get into modular. But when someone has a specific musical concept in mind and they know it'll work best in a smaller form factor, then by all means go for it. And given that you're running a DFAM already, snagging two more 60 hp Moog cabs (watch your module depths!) for a total of 120 on which to expand the DFAM makes a lot of sense. Moog's designers already thought of this by offering their matching cabs and double and triple racks. Slap a couple of uZeuses in those and get busy!
One thing, tho...given that you're building this up around a DFAM and thinking of adding a Pam's to that, also consider a couple of things to deal with clock modulation and logic. That way, you can patch up all sorts of timing strangenesses that key off of counts (dividers and multipliers), CV (comparators, derivators, etc), pulse manipulation (width controls, clock delays) and randomfactors (probabilistic skippers, etc). Ladik makes a number of these that fit into 4 hp each, and Doepfer has their divider and ratcheting multiplier, and there's a few companies that offer nice, space-thrifty Boolean operator modules. May as well make that sequencer turn some cartwheels if you've got the space for a few of those.
i read on various forums for modular synthesists and they always seem to discourage people from getting a small rack, like the Doepfer mini case or Synthrotek Power Lunch etc. They say its a waste, get a bigger case, you will need it, you will want it to be bigger...
What I REALLY want IS something kinda small, that I can wrap my head around. I'm currently using a Moog DFAM, Microbrute, a couple Volcas and some effects. What I would really like to try is a small case with Pamela's New Workout, Expert Sleepers Disting, Synthesis Technology E950, and a couple VCAs and ENV generators as needed... wouldn't this cover at least a few bases, for a beginner? Then if I DO want to expand, and I suddenly have more space and a bunch more money... I guess that is what they call a GOOD problem to have, right?
Am I missing anything important?
Thanks, @StateAzure for the amazing packaging, detailed pics, and quick shipping!
-- slatin
Likewise! @slatin good communication and a smooth transaction. Thank you!
Thanks, @StateAzure for the amazing packaging, detailed pics, and quick shipping!
Awesome setup!!! Almost no overlap at all with my own case except for Batumi and Filter8, it's fun to see a different approach.
Um. I do see a small space for another module there at the bottom! I would have put an OScope in there personally, not sure how you can function without one.
Looking forward to hearing what you can do with that new filter!
The Volta + dc-coupled external MOTU interface method is a bit of a kludge; there's a better way to go within Eurorack itself. Have a look at Expert Sleepers' ES-8 USB interface and ESX-8CVmkii expanders, as well as ES's Silent Way software instead. Cross-platformable (Volta is Mac-only, last time I checked), much more compact, plus you have four return CVs back to the computer to use either for recording or tracking CV/gate activity, or both. Voltages range up to +10 as well, giving you a full CV range instead of the MOTU's restriction.
Big ups to @sceledra for carefully packing and quickly shipping a Soundmachines Ls1 my way. Tempted to get his Lp1, if someone doesn't beat me to it!
Have a look at Ladik. They provide a wide range of 3.5mm-to-1/4" devices for both input and output, mono and stereo, and they're quite cost and space-effective.
I’m now satisfied with the setup that I’ve got and I’ll stop buying modules.
I bought a Mother 32. Love it. I used the 1/4" output to run into my guitar pedal board, then into my interface (I use stereo outs from my Eventide Space reverb into both channels of it) to record into DAW. I get a clean signal with no detectable distortion, and have plenty of headroom.
Now that I have mounted the Mother 32 into a larger powered case and am adding other modules, I am going to have to use the 3.5mm VCA output to get signal out, which seems like a pain. It seems that I will need to use one of those cheap flimsy 3.5mm to 1/4 adapters, or have a dedicated module with 1/4 output like the MakeNoise Rosie, which I suppose could add some other functionality I might eventually use like the FX loop and crossfade, but seems like overkill. Are there other options though? What do most people do to get their 3.5mm outputs into a mixer or interface, since 1/4" or XLR inputs are standard?
Hallo,
I want to buy Make noise DPO and maths, Mutable Instruments Plaits, Motu 828x or other interface with dc coupled and Reakor 6 of course.
I know that i can send lfo, step modes and seqeunces but im not sure if it s possible to send adsr, vca and whether the set I described above is fully adequate and if I have to buy something to fully use the possibilities of dpo and plaits?
I readed on Motu Volta the Motu 828x have 4.15v on analog out. It will be no problem to control with this voltage, otherwise which device or interface You can recomend to be fully compatible with reaktor?
Thank You and greeting
pico vca module well packaged and promptly shipped from @tomlaan. Can recommend this guy. Thanks again!
Great transaction with @tomlaan on the fantastic MI Plaits. Exactly as described, as new, fantastic comms, really easy to meet up in the Hague, and a really nice guy as well! Cheers Tom!
— Stochastic Instruments Ltd. —
Rethink Random//Perform Process//Create Chaos
— Save the World Entire: Vegan —
End the holocaust. Change our world with science.
Very happy with my makenoise b&g lxd purchase from @tomlaan. Super fast shipping and lxd arrived in mint condition! Perfect!
@gihaume is a top guy! Good deal, packing and communication.
There seems to be a bug in the module search form.
When you search for modules available in a particular marketplace, the "Secondary Function" field is ignored. Or rather even more complicated, only one of the "Function" fields work.
-- amethyst
Indeed that was broken but should now work again. Thanks for reporting!
Beep, Bopp, Bleep: info@modulargrid.net
There seems to be a bug in the module search form.
When you search for modules available in a particular marketplace, the "Secondary Function" field is ignored. Or rather even more complicated, only one of the "Function" fields work.
Well, I agree...the USA used to lead the world in electronics manufacturing up until the 1970s, and even then it still held an edge in component manufacturing for some time. And yes, there are some issues of various sorts with China in terms of how workers are treated, corruption, and intellectual property. But the fact is that electronic instruments have become a rather 'fungible' thing. Look at Eurorack itself, for example: the format was devised by a German firm, retooling a concept that was created on two different ends of the USA. It has a pool of several thousand modules to date, made everywhere from Thailand (Takaab) to Scotland (GMSN) and everywhere in between. Its users routinely cross many borders in their shopping and research, via Internet sellers and resources (such as, say, ModularGrid). It's very much a 'world instrument'.
At the same time, though, there's that 'affordable' factor. Yeah, that's a key thing. But also, that 'affordability' relies on things much worse/sketchy than the Chinese Communist Party. If you thought the concept of 'blood diamonds' was awful, have a romp through the socioeconomic darkness that surrounds coltan, a vital mineral used in the manufacture of a lot of discrete components, definitely including those in the very computer I'm typing this on and which I use for my multitrack work and ones which show up all over the place in our electronic music gear.
Ultimately, trade wars hurt the people that the warring states roll over in their belligerence...just like in real war, but perhaps a bit 'cleaner' in a lot of cases. Less bloody. No less good for that, though. So, yeah, I have mixed views, too...but I look at Moog's situation and see a company that was a pioneer, an originator, led by a visionary and now owned by its employees who trade on a rich, impressive legacy. And I see that forcing a company like that to make ugly, dumb choices is not going to lead to something good...just as, back in earlier decades, it didn't lead to anything good for R.A. Moog Inc. as Norlin got its hooks into it, and then Gibson Brands (aka 'that place on Elm Hill Pike where music companies go to die' -- bit of Nashville slang there) nearly killed it.
Eventually what it all comes down to is this: what do WE do with these machines? Are WE creating work which dignifies everything that makes up the bits and pieces? Are WE mindful of what went into the bits and pieces, and do WE work to create something with them which produces that dignity?
I belong to a music fraternity that holds an important tenet: "Let there be nothing but Truth in Music". So when I sit down to work...many years after I first heard those words and was forced to consider the depth of that concept...I try to always maintain a mindfulness of these things I note above. I know full well what I work with, what it cost (not in money, but in human costs), what had to be done to generate the power that runs the devices, and so on. All of those things really matter to me, and it matters to me that what I create with them carries the human truths behind every tiny part forward in the music, hopefully to poke a bit more light into darkness via that truth. Does it matter where the components come from? Yes, absolutely. Are those origins truly avoidable, though? Perhaps not...but if not, then what comes from them must be right, and I hope that that's what I do. Create something right and good and true.
So, yeah, I have a lot of mixed feelings about that situation with Moog, too. But I also recognize that there are wider concerns than just materials and money afoot.
I have mixed views on this- personally I think we need to go back to American made electronic components and rare earth minerals since allowing a communist dictatorship corner the market on it is not great for the west. Second, they need to be affordable.
Exactly...when you're dealing with an instrument that works on discrete note-on/note-off behavior, then the point of actual discrete polyphony enters into things. A good parallel in guitar would be the various complex picking styles of Doc Watson, or the techniques found in a lot of classical guitar repertoire, flamenco/Andalucian style music, etc. Paraphony is more akin to strumming chords and the like, where a single attack occurs more or less simultaneously for all notes, and the result is more of a single sound without internal attacks, modulation characteristics, etc on single notes within the chord.
Yuppers...Joe knows how a serious, hardcore factory-built system should be put together, to be sure!
And yes, you can get the CV Bus in the 7U case. Besides, with many of these companies, it's not like you're dealing with a bunch of suits...they're usually run by musicians just like us, on budgets that're often just like us as well. If there's something that you've got to have, then just ask 'em and see what they say. Most of the time, you'll find Eurorack builders to be a very approachable lot, and certainly not a bunch of restrictive asshats who only cater to the ultra-rich. They're in this to please users and get their gear into peoples' hands, and often enough, flexibility is the name of the game for these companies.
Hello everyone, would like to see anyone can critique my rack, and what else to add? I already bought the modules so they’ll be on their way. I’ll be triggering the manis with the Analog 4 and Loquelic for drones.
What's really the difference sound wise to create a paraphonic synth by running multiple VCO's all into the same VCF, VCA, EG versus "true" polyphony?
-- goodbyebluesky82If you want a setting for each note, like a filter sweep, there is a huge difference. In polyphony you get a sweep for each note, in no way affected by the trigger of a new note. In paraphony the sweep of the first not will restart when you trigger a new note.
-- sislte
I'm primarily a guitarist / drummer who started dabbling in synth, not a keyboard player, and therefore play very basic things, so that didn't occur to me but makes sense now. For very simple chords / pads, I still don't think it would be an issue, but I could see that being a problem for bigger chords / pads where you are adding and releasing notes while keeping some notes sustained simultaneously.
I would still buy a full MN CV bus system if I had the spare cash to burn as I have enjoyed my 0-coast quite a bit and NIN synth master Alessandro Cortini uses one on his music along with Buchla and Verbos and Elektrons.
At least you can buy a MN 6+1Ux104 case with the CV Bus in it. Saves you selling all those modules at a loss you didn't mean to get in the first place. That's possibly a worthwhile option if you plan to use the René sequencer that is not working properly with many non-MN PSUs.
-- wiggler55550
oh yes - you are right... thank you... at least that :) ...
At least you can buy a MN 6+1Ux104 case with the CV Bus in it. Saves you selling all those modules at a loss you didn't mean to get in the first place. That's possibly a worthwhile option if you plan to use the René sequencer that is not working properly with many non-MN PSUs.
What's really the difference sound wise to create a paraphonic synth by running multiple VCO's all into the same VCF, VCA, EG versus "true" polyphony?
-- goodbyebluesky82
If you want a setting for each note, like a filter sweep, there is a huge difference. In polyphony you get a sweep for each note, in no way affected by the trigger of a new note. In paraphony the sweep of the first note will restart when you trigger a new note.
-> It hasn't gone anywhere, really. The idea of having all modules from the same maker goes back to the beginnings of synthesizers, when you had to rely on full systems from a manufacturer. The difference now is that all of these different full systems can 'talk' to each other plainly, whereas before you had all sorts of different CV and gate/trig standards that weren't always compatible. Full systems give users the ability to use that older paradigm...but they work just like any other modular in that they speak the same CV/gate 'language' and, if you desired, you could pull one of the full system's modules and drop something of your own preference in. That's the point of modular.
-- Lugia
I did not mean that and I get your point - but if you want this CV bus for instance you won't get it - "sorry we sell it just in our completes - thank you for your understanding" - if you like to buy a optomix or erbe-verb etc. - "sorry we sell it just in our completes - thank you for your understanding" - for the rich and wealthy people who can get that as a one-timer because the can afford...
or every ten years in a special occasion offer - which you can order just directly at their store - so a problem for non-US citizens...
you know what I am saying - I bought a system cartesian - I also bought their 104 skiff and wanted to go slowly (because I ain't no rich) the way in direction to a MN complete system - after checking to get the next MN module in black/gold I made that very nice experience I described above - I should have informed myself before all of that - I know - stupid me :)...
...and yes, at the end it is the FUNctionality and SOUND etc. that counts but also if you like your system in black(/gold) you will just get the silver versions of some of their modules because of their "open minded" strategy - and I know some small companies offering face-plates in black so you can exchange - but you know...
Yea they are taking the same walled closed garden approach of Buchla which I don't like either. If I was gonna spend 5k for a full system from one vendor, it would be Buchla or Serge. They sound amazing and top synth masters use them.
It hasn't gone anywhere, really. The idea of having all modules from the same maker goes back to the beginnings of synthesizers, when you had to rely on full systems from a manufacturer. The difference now is that all of these different full systems can 'talk' to each other plainly, whereas before you had all sorts of different CV and gate/trig standards that weren't always compatible. Full systems give users the ability to use that older paradigm...but they work just like any other modular in that they speak the same CV/gate 'language' and, if you desired, you could pull one of the full system's modules and drop something of your own preference in. That's the point of modular.
Yeah, part of the problem does lie in patching and programming a beast like that. It's pretty daunting. Even a simple poly setup on my Digisound (basically, one VCO into one VCF into one VCA, same individual EG per voice for timbral and amplitude envelope, same LFO per voice for modulation), while it's fairly simple to patch, usually involves quite a bit of tweaking to get the balances and tunings right.
As for the difference, it sort of depends on how the VCF is being used, and how the voicings work. If the polyphony is very tight, and the VCF isn't doing anything really high-Q, it can sound much the same as normal polyphony. But when the VCF settings per voice start to get critical, as in something at near-breakthrough in resonance, then the drawbacks start to become apparent. Also, if the polyphony is spread widely, this too will be noticeable.
Really, this works better in actual polysynths, where everything can be under microprocessor control, and where everything is all chip-based. That way, the hardware costs get minimized, programming is less of a pain, and everything behaves more tractably. An example of one polysynth where this doesn't exactly happen is in the SEM-based Oberheims, where you technically have several individual synths under one master programmer's control, and once again, you can quickly find yourself in knob-tweaking hell trying to get the several SEMs to match up exactly. There are ways around that, though, but the SEM Oberheim polys are such an esoteric thing that that example's almost moot (even though Oberheim reissued them in recent years).
What's really the difference sound wise to create a paraphonic synth by running multiple VCO's all into the same VCF, VCA, EG versus "true" polyphony though? With some affordable VCO/DCOs and a MIDI to CV converter capable of routing the various CV inputs to the VCO/DCOs; it seems very doable in modular, especially compared to the massive rigs with expensive digital modules people put together without complaining too much of the cost and complex patching.
I would think tuning / calibrating it might be a pain, kind of akin to playing that guitar you keep lying around but can never quite get in tune with itself 100%.
As can be read in this thread @Drazen is not accepting responsibility for his forgoing of mentioning problems with customs. He also does not react to messages of me requesting a full refund as I really don't feel like paying the customs office for his "mistake" of not mentioning that the Stuff he marks as EU come from outside the EU. As I said: "Full refund" + letting the package bounce from Austria back to Quatar would be totally fine for me but he wont react. I feel like this might be systematical. On the other hand I am sad that Quatar is not part of a customs union and it must be VERY hard to get modules there. But for everybody it would be soo much fairer to be transparent about the situation. @Drazen, if you read this: there is still time (they keep my package until the 10th) to step up and refund either partially or fully.
Sad - this is kind of my first not so good experience out of about 20 transactions on the marketplace...-- Stevelate
So sorry to read that another person had the same unpleasant experience with @Drazen as i. -I only wish you had read my warnings about him in the first place so be cautious. In my case he never replied back, instead he left pass 20+ days of silence and then came up with the 8-year-oldish answer you have quoted... (though it was ridiculous, replied it)
The thing is that after my initial complaints here, he really had the choice from now on to inform the buyer via PM during transaction settlements on his intentions to send any module from a place outside customs union, but he take no such action. So it's clearly now that he's definitely doing it on misleading purpose and, yes, systematically...
@modulargrid we have an ongoing situation here.
why isn't make noise selling the cv bus without their system?
-- ghee hgt
Because it is their marketing “strategy” - some things you just get exclusively when you buy a whole expensive though wonderful system - just wealthy people can afford - think of their modules no black/gold available also just exclusively with their systems - I hate that idea because it exclude others who cannot afford it - where did the idea of modular go?
Very good deal and fast shipping by @mindmachines33 !
The HP information is included in the info of each module. It's probably the only value that you cannot escape using when adding a new module.
You can see it underneath the blah blah included in most modules. It's located below the power info (if available), as a tag.
Additionaly, it is included when looking at the modules using the Module Finder.
Last, but not least, you can find it when using the Popover option and while you hover your mouse over a module.
-- ParanormalPatroler
Oh it's as a tag, saw it. Always thought it is written altogether with the current and module depth values. Big thanks!
The HP information is included in the info of each module. It's probably the only value that you cannot escape using when adding a new module.
You can see it underneath the blah blah included in most modules. It's located below the power info (if available), as a tag.
Additionaly, it is included when looking at the modules using the Module Finder.
Last, but not least, you can find it when using the Popover option and while you hover your mouse over a module.
Not sure what you mean by #1. You want the total HP of the modules? It's on the Data Sheet link underneath your rack.
No, I meant when you click inside to see the details page of a module there is no where showing its hp value. I know it can be seen when you search or seeing the data sheet but it makes no sense not seeing it inside the details page.
