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That's what's nice about certain of the patchable systems...if they're properly done, you have ample choices, plus the expandability into actual modules is built-in and doesn't have to be kludged into working.

Explaining Phenol...OK, back at the beginning of synthesis, Don Buchla's systems wound up all up and down the West Coast at various schools, one of which was CalArts. And there was constant hassles over getting time on the sole Buchla system they had, so Serge Tcherepnin who was an instructor and composer there around 1970 came up with this idea to cook up some basic module boards, parts kits, predrilled panels, and paper panel layouts, and offer these to the students as a project that a number of them could collaborate in building, with the result being that everyone wound up with a few panels which made up a fairly potent patchable synth. These originals actually had no name, and were mostly assembled in an ad-hoc assembly line around a courtyard at CalArts' music department, and wound up being called 'Serge' synths because it was Serge Tcherepnin who cooked the whole project up.

Serge made some changes over Don's designs, though. First off, Serge made his systems more interconnection-friendly. Early Buchlas used all sorts of non-standard voltages and separated the control signals from the audio. Serge changed this so that his modules worked with 1V/8va scaling and positive triggers, and put the audio and control signals back as one single jack group, so that audio could easily be used as CVs, and vice-versa. Second, the actual Serges always tended to follow the form factor that had been used in the first place: modules were mounted onto predrilled aluminum panels, and as these became commercial products, you had to specify which modules you wanted on which custom panels for your system...which is a ROYAL pain in the ass to work with, I assure you!

Now, Andrew Kilpatrick and some other synth builders in the 1990s and 2000s decided to try and do the Serge-type connection format in different ways. Bruce Duncan of Modcan, in his Modcan A systems, created very tall/long modules, and Kilpatrick went more toward Buchla's 4U panels, both using bananas while at the same time, both also did Eurorack development (and Modcan also did their 5U 'B' systems). But it was Ken Stone that worked with Rex Probe and Serge Tcherepnin eventually, after devising some similarly Serge-like modules on his own, and this became Elby, which famously did their 'EuroSerge' form factor...3U with banana jacks.

Why banana jack/plugs? Several reasons, actually...

First of all, the patchcables are lunkhead-simple to make. They don't even require soldering, and you only have a single wire, so it's possible to build piles of patchcables with a wire cutter/stripper and a small adjustment screwdriver (the banana plugs have a setscrew in them that holds the wire in place), and these don't tend to wear out over time. Granted, there have been some people who've griped about crosstalk since the 'ground' is established across the panel, but that's really not a hugely consequental issue for most users.

And second, banana plugs are stackable. This eliminates the need for multiples, and also encourages users to splay signals out in all directions for various purposes, so that one signal source might actually be busy doing numerous things with numerous functions all over the place. Hence why the Phenol is such a potent device, despite it actually seeming rather simple. However, this one 'plus' comes with a big caveat: it is easy to get distracted while patching something complicated and accidentally connect an output to another output. Now, if this happens on a conventional two-conductor jack system, if the outputs don't have diode protection, the result can be damage to one or both modules. But on a banana jack system, a patchcord array that has this output-output patching might be capable of damaging several things at once if the synthesist gets sloppy while programming a patch...say, three outputs get connected. Then you'd run a risk of frying all three outputting modules, and the small instance of overvoltage (if that happens) could also overload and 'pop' any inputting modules in the patchcord array. Icky. But this just means you have to be CAREFUL...which you should be, anyway.

Anyway, banana systems are another compact option on par with Eurorack, inasmuch as there's both prebuilds like the Phenol and a sizable module base. Plus Serge/STS also does their 'shop panel' series, prebuilt panels that, while they cost quite a bit, do astonishing things sonically. The Serge was also sort of the original '0-coast' idea; it had the ability to work with subtractive synthesis to a much greater degree than the Buchlas, but patched in a manner more akin to a Buchla and made use of a touchpad key sequencer like Don's systems tended to.

Anyway, yeah, bananas do look a little...odd. But I have stuff here that uses those as well as loads of other jack formats, and I never see any issues with them. Plus the stackability allows a flexibility you just cannot find easily with typical bipolar connection systems. And if you run out of cables...well, just ring up Mouser or Allied or whatever, get a bag of Pomonas and a roll of 16ga stranded copper wire, then bust out the tools for an evening, and soon enough you'll have a pile of new cables to use. Easy-peasy!

EDITED Apr 13th 2018, 21:56

Ah ok, I know for next time, thanks ;)

Current consumption numbers here are not accurate, although approved by the manufacturer. The module draws 35mA from the (required) 5V rail according to the Bastl website:

+12V: 5mA
-12V 5mA
+5V: 35mA

EDITED Apr 13th 2018, 18:05

Hi all,

I started with a basic build using VCA, VCF, LFO, utilities like clock/slew, VCO. Looking for industrial techno, trance and darker sound in my first rack. Here is what I just sketched out:

What are your thoughts?

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Hi Lugia,

thank you very much for your effort to give advice on my expansion plans. I appreciate your experience and know-how - awesome!!

Due to space economical reasons in my project studio I don't use a mixer. I hooked up my non-modular synths and FX via balanced patchbays so I could run every synth through the FX/outboard gear I like and than to the audio/ADAT interface (everything in my studio is balanced cabled so I like to have a balanced master output for my modular system, too). Rosie's TRS output ist linked via one of the patchbays to a pair of channels of my audio interface. The system works stand alone (without PC) for jamming, too. Therefore I like the idea to have a small performance mixer in the modular rack helping me quickly dial in loudness, muting and panning when I am jamming electronic and technoid stuff (those basic functions have to be CV controlled for the more ambient and generative tracks on-top of manually mixing). Because of that secnario the Xaoc Praga has been in my mind for a while.

The idea of phase shifting the Telharmonic sounds promising, thanks for that (I have a Vermona analog phaser PH-16 in my 19" rack, so maybe I can utilize this or of cause the super-duper Xaoc Kamienic - but no rack space for this). Concerning the filter there are so many good alternatives, but as you said cause of rack space in combination with what I have and planning to achieve the Xaoc Belgrad should be a super option. Beside its special sound (could be used as a more classy liquid filter, too) I love the Xaoc look & feel and the overall outstanding build quality of their modules. I will put that filter definitely into the rack, I have ordered one today at Schneidersladen in Berlin (coming in at April/May as a new batch of Xaoc Devices is on build hopefully - yeah).

I like your suggestion with the Delphtronics LDB-2 (didn't know the module until yet). Because of the limited size of my modular system I thought a lot about putting dedicated drum modules in it or going with a external drum machine instead. So I think it is a good idea to keep the drums on the small side here and utilize my Elektron Analog Rytm more often besides the modular. To keep things more simple I like the idea to do some basic drum works within the modular via Pico Drums, Tiptop One or sometimes Peaks or Braids and for more crazy stuff Basimilus Iteritas Alter (utilizing the latter for basslines and technoid building blocks instead of percs, too).

One of my main questions still is, how many envelopes will I need. I have a classic envelope on the SV-1. It could need a second ADSR for separate filter and VCA modulation. The Telharmonic needs sometimes an ADSR envelope, too (not only vactrol kind of VCAF filtering like with the Optomix). With Peaks I have two independent envelopes in different style, the Disting could deliver, too (will sell the MK3 though, replacing it with the MK4 - much better user experience with that new small digit display). To ensure another swiss knife function a second Disting could be nuts. Maybe I leave it for a while as is and see what I need in upcoming patching situations. Hm...

As I speek "Optomix" - as I like to keep the Tallin (cause i bought it recently and it sounds amazing as an VCA for audio) - should I plan with the Optomix or should I better drop it for something else? I guess I need a good sounding lowpass gate in my system, maybe using the Make Noise LxD instead of the Optomix and fill up the remaining space with one more envelope generator?

Last but not least thank you very much for your arrangement tips, Lugia. That is what I am struggling with sometimes, luckily with this rack of a manageable size it will somehow work together. Nevertheless I will follow your structure from left to right and bundling functions.

After considering your suggestions in sum I have put the rack like this - of cause not a final building plan. Any more suggestions or comments on that are highly welcome!! :-)

EDITED Apr 13th 2018, 09:55

Hey Lugia, big thx for your prompt comment.

I'm seriously considering to switch from that big Cwejman Filter to two smaller but more effective ones. Any advise on some VCFs should be good for me? I also have to explain you that I've got a studio with no modular synths and just vintage gear (mostly Roland...)and I've always been fascinated by the power of older oscillator and filter. So I would try to get some modules that are as possibly powerful as the other I have, any ideas? I've been quite impressive by the vibe of the Verbos CO, and that's the reason I fit it in the system.

The other reason I'm searching for an help is that my mind is likely to think sound out of a "normal" style synthesis (1 or 2 vcos, 1 lfo, adsr etc etc), but I know that keeping limits into modular world could be the main limit! Despite that I linked in the threat the incomplete system, the correct one was https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_644608.jpg.

Looking for your suggestions, have a good one :)

Marco

This looks cool as well the Endorphin.es Shuttle modular system- so many choices!

The Phenol looks well laid out and easy to understand so it would be a consideration in spite of the weird banana clip format which I am not crazy about as using standard Eurorack cables makes life easier. I would need to make a trip to LA to try all this gear out. Or mix and match with both a Phenol and Modulor 114 and add in the Koma Field Kit and go insane in backpack portable modular gear.

What is weird is that after spending lot of time watching videos of the expensive modular systems, I can do most of it on my single Elektron Analog 4 MKII box! I do want modular but the price tag is much higher than non modular hardware synths.

EDITED Apr 13th 2018, 06:04

Yeah, I saw that demo, too...not the best programming work there, true. But keep in mind that when you crossconnect devices, a lot of shortcomings that you'd see in a device like that tend to vanish because the interconnectivity can allow you to route around the things that don't work well in that particular box, but then you can also use those 'don't work well' things in conjunction with ones that do, also. Phenol was another one I perhaps should've mentioned, although you'll need a format-changer box to go from bananas to 3.5mms to pair it.

But then, there's the terrifying idea of two Phenols, too...and this leads in the direction of Serge-type gear, which Elby, Random*Source and others can do in Eurorack format but _also_ with bananas. And there's something to be said for that patching format, because multiples aren't needed at all, and signals can start branching all over the place, leading to some VERY complex sounds. Another consideration, perhaps...?

Yeah I did not care for the demos of the Plankton Ants it was not much different than a few presets on my Elektron Analog 4. I do like the sounds from the demos of the Modulor 114 and also the Kilpatrick Audio Phenol as well as the Dreadbox Erebus and NYX. So I would probably get the Modulor 114 and Dreadbox before jumping into building a 10k Eurorack system.

Well, like I said, don't get discouraged. MG is an incredible resource for figuring out what you actually are trying to accomplish sonically and what bits and pieces, in what order, work to get you there. Spend some time here researching others' racks and seeing what experienced synthesists are doing, asking questions, and working on lots of builds to try and sketch out an approach. True, modular synthesizers aren't a thing to just dive into casually...especially these days...but the fact is that it's loads easier now thanks to resources like MG to eventually arrive at something that you intuitively KNOW you can live with and work with for years to come. Takes time, and practice...like most anything else worthwhile!

Hmm...well, maybe put a second DixieII+ in instead of the Doepfer. Saves space, which you need with that honkin' big Verbos Buchla 200 clone.

I'd also try and dissuade you from that Cwejman filter. Again, it's huge (which means it's stealing space for some other things you need) and quite spendy for what it is. You could likely get more done with two smaller VCFs, especially if you can interlink them, then you'd have room for the VCAs that you're missing and the multiples you need to spread certain CVs out.

Think smaller modules here. The devices that make sense that are large (Metropolis, Verbos VCO, Maths) leave you way less room than you need if you keep using large panel spaces. That, or scrap the rack and move up to something bigger...which might be a good idea, actually. Starting with more space and having to figure out how to fill it once your mission-specific modules are in place is usually more rewarding than hitting that cab's hp limit and then realiing that there's important bits missing.

Ahhh...you missed one: the Plankton Ants!. It's a killer value for $599, one you should consider even alongside one of the others as an expander. Plus if paired with the Modulor 114, you'd then have a very small (backpack-sized) setup with 6 VCOs, for starters. Consider those two together; they come in at about the same price (or less) than the others. Toss it together with the logical mixer (ie: a Koma Field Kit), and you'd have a rig that could fit easily in a backpack or small carry-on case.

One thing that I am doing is using the free software VCV Rack and Softtube Modular to plan out how the modules work as well as try semi modular gear like the Make Noise 0-coast before I blow 5-10k on a modular setup. Not sure what your experience level is on Eurorack but maybe try a smaller approach in stages?

Whooo...this is not bad at all! Your prospective choices are pretty spot-on, actually. As for the reverb on your chord parts, though...I'd be more inclined to do that outside of the modular via an FX send/return on your primary mixer to have better control/blend over that signal. Otherwise, you run a risk of getting the modular's output signal a bit too muddy and cluttered. However, what I would suggest is to process the chord parts in the modular with a phase shifter to get a nice, potentially spatialized sense of timbral motion. As for the filtering on that, you might consider some sort of resonator...maybe aim for that classic Korg PS-series sort of multiband depth. Both of those together would be really wild...very much in that classic Basic Channel sort of sonic zone, given the dubby/spacy sweeping you'd get.

Another VCF to consider might be DINsync's SARA VCF...it's also a state-variable, but it has a very odd architecture that the manufacturer refers to as 'dual opposed-core', which should be in that dual-peak style of the Praga but might actually be stranger in character. Plus it has two big purple knobs...which would look very visually intriguing for live gigging.

Arrangement definitely needs work, tho...hang on a few minutes...ok, maybe a bit longer since MG's acting up, but...

Howzzat?

Went ahead and, as suggested, fleshed it on out. You'll note a few modules missing from the original, notably the Tallinn and Peaks, which were replaced with the Optomix and a bit of the RADAR. That last thing is a killer...eight looping AD/ASR generators with a separate controller module, the BLIP. I'd say that satisfies all envelope generation needs for this build! I located it centrally to make it convenient to the entire build at the same time.

Batumi (and Poti) added, along with the Belgrad (too little space for the SARA VCF, but the Belgrad fit just fine), along with a Delptronics LDB-2 for analog 606/808-ish drums, then a six-in stereo Ladik mixer, with the Morphagene in 'post' position followed by the Erica Output. Sequencer/clocking area was reordered to straighten out the step-down flow of the clock from the Metropolis thru to the Erica Seq and sequential switch (now in position to switch clock outputs from the Euclidean). All voicing to the top row, where the MTE 4 is set to work as a unity-gain muting mixer for a channel of the Veils. Also, the DSP is post-Optomix to make it convenient for tinkering with the output(s) from that. Didn't cram in a phaser, but there should be enough in there for extreme sonic damage purposes.

Think that'll work?

EDITED Apr 13th 2018, 02:28

Yep...the price discrepancy on the Entry Point for the same functions (pretty much) as the A-119 just doesn't make sense, plus you lose 2 extra hp of space to it. Granted, it has that square-wave 'extractor', but if you're not inputting something that has a very pure waveform in the first place, or which has numerous pitches, that's not likely to function properly. Not quite the same thing as a proper P-V converter, which tends to be a bit pricier.

And if we're talking Erica mixers, have you had a look at their Black Output Module? Pricier, but you get a stereo mixer with CV over panning, 3 mono channels and one stereo, a master gain, balanced outputs + a headphone amp, and it only takes up four more hp. That thing is pretty serious, takes care of the output + stereo mix thing, gives you a proper stereo in for the Clouds. $150 more, but I think you get your money's worth on that, given that the Black Stereo Mixer is roughly $150 and a stereo output will run another $75-100 for something decent. Plus the panel width used should be the same.

(Later): OK, I banged on it a little...several modules went away, and the goal here was to jack the functionality up as much as I could in a small space. 6 EGs (two AHDSR, two ADSR w/ inverters, two AD), 6 VCA (Intellijel Quad ($10 cheaper than Mutable's) and two linears), 6-channel mixer for sources, added a Maths, condensed the effects while breaking them out a little for some separate processing. Kept the Clouds, added the Black Output v2, plus also crammed in a ring mod and waveshaper, and cleaned up the signal flow. Here 'tis:

Better?

EDITED Apr 13th 2018, 03:34

Hey Lucia, I really appreciate your thoughts. You're right about the selling of my synths, some have rocked up in price and in hindsight I think I wanted something not achievable with really any amount of rackspace.
I think I was seduced by the small form factor and an affordable way into the Eurorack world!

I think I will sell the stuff I don't use and just keep a lurking eye on this site to keep up to date!

Thanks again!

Hey guys,

I'm looking for my first modular synth. I'd like to create something musical, no super-strage melodies, but I'd like to interrelate melodies so i'd picked a quantizer, the quantimator, that should be the brain of my researches. 3 VCos because of the chords progressions, any advise on utility modules or any big oversight I did?

Thx in advance! Big up!

Marco

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_644608.jpg

Ok so I am looking at getting my first basic Eurorack system for industrial type techno music that can also do house and psy-trance beats. Considering a pre-built system like the Roland 500 series, Erica Synths Drone, Buchla Snoopy, or Soundmachines Modulor114 that already have the modules put together in case/power supply.

What would be the best way to go and why?

Hi there,

I am into modular synthesis for a while and really enjoy the possibilities for sound design, doing ambient stuff as well as technoid tracks. The modular is joining my classic synth portfolio and was at first a kind of supplement. More and more I use it standalone for jamming.

The modular case is build by MDLR with 9u/114 hp featuring a Doepfer PSU-3 with 60 power headers (https://www.mdlrcase.com/product/eurorackcase-9u-84hp-classic-black/). Started originally with Pittsburgh‘s SV-1 I have build up the rack with this larger MDLR case (Roland with 84hp first) and a couple more modules came in during the last months (Noise Engineering Basimilus Alter, TipTop One, Circadian Circles). On the sequencer side a Beatstep Pro is joining the system.

So now I am looking to compliment the built with some more decent modules like a small performance mixer (e.g. Xaoc Praga), a second FX, a capable filter as an alternative to the classic SV-1‘s lowpass filter (e.g. Xaoc Belgrad because of it‘s dedicated sound and capabilities, look and feel) - maybe a low pass gate like Make Noise Optomix in addition, another envelope, a WMD MSCL for sound polish at the end of the mix and for some duckin effects, dropping the Rosie because of the planned mixer for exchange with a simple output module with smaller footprint and last but not least a friend to the Maths (e.g. Xaoc Batumi) for some more modulation.

As said, jamming technoid stuff with this thing and sometimes some generative ambient sounds is the goal for this system. So this means some monotonic, slightly envolving beats (bass drum, snare, hats, on-top percs), bass line, 1-2 melody/seq lines, deep house chords with a lot of filtering and reverb on those chords (telharmonic for this). Would be awesome, if you have any advice or comments on the actual system and the planned direction of development? What are you missing, how would you arrange the modules?

Thx for your help in advance and greetings from Germany

Stue

EDITED Apr 12th 2018, 10:02

Yes I am aware of the different amperage on the +12 and -12, I just mentionned the +12 here because as you said it has the biggest load. For now I have 377mA on the -12V so there's still room too. I'll keep an eye on both for sure, and even on the +5V part!

For the mixer, I was looking at the Black Stereo Mixer from Erica Synths. Less features than the Mixology, but still seems to do the job at mixing stereo and the 4th mono input can provide some panning action.

The Doepfer A-119 looks great, thanks for the tip. I was looking at the Entry Point from Pulplogic but it's more than twice the price.

Sigh...sorry to do this, but it's bubble-pop time.

There's only two sound sources in this build, and one of those is a noise generator. Even with a uBraids, the sound is going to be a tad thin.

More confusingly, there's two very large and very complex filters in there. If there's only one actual oscillator, then why have those?

Also, why the ribbon controllers? Or two granular sample processors? Or a buffered mult when a passive one will do here? And where are your VCAs, even for just audio level control?

I have a feeling that these modules aren't going to work in the way you think they will. This might be pretty, but if you were to put this together for real, the only 'pretty' it's probably going to wind up being is 'pretty frustrating'.

See https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/3015 before going too much further, please. You're contemplating spending a sizable amount of money on something that's only barely a synthesizer if this is an actual consideration. If not, then scrap it, do some more research, and start over. This isn't a simple thing that can be tossed together casually; the likely result will be money ill-spent on a device that only causes annoyance when you figure out what it won't do.

If the goal here is to put together a sort of generative system that you can trigger with your drumkit, I'll warn you right now: you're probably starting too small. Just the amount of trigger and microphone inputs you're going to want (need, actually) and the interactivity from those is going to pass that little cab's space limitations very rapidly. Back up, start again, this time with something like a 6U or 7U (one tile row) x 104 or larger case. Otherwise, the only way this becomes doable is with buttloads of tiny 2 , 3 and 4 hp modules, and if you want to make an adjustment to any of that while playing the drums, you'll discover a whole new level of frustration.

My suggestion: go and look at some examples of the electronic kits from the beginning of that concept, such as the early Simmons kits. You'll find that these tend to be very easy to adjust on the fly because of how their control panels are laid out, basically becoming the template for what electronic controls for drummers (who tend to be QUITE busy with the actual drums themselves) evolved from. Teensy knobs and loads of patchcords doesn't lend themselves to the sort of adjustability and playability as, say, an SDS-8.

It's not a bad idea...it just all has to be done right, or you'll wind up with equipment that has an unusable form factor.

Honestly, I wouldn't put the Model D in the Rackbrute. First of all, it already has a cab and that cab takes care of its power needs. Secondly, it takes up a lot of room, and given the goal you're shooting for, the Model D gobbles up a lot of the rack space you'll need to make that work. Wanting to 'do it all' in 2 x 88 hp is a bit of a tall order...not wholly impossible, but if 70 hp is being used by what's basically a monosynth that can just as easily stay where it is, you probably won't be getting close to that notion.

Third: be extremely careful about which synths to sell. Consider that some of those, if you got them relatively cheaply, probably will not ever be at your disposal again. Case in point is sitting right behind me, and only cost $450 plus a couple of days driving when I got it, and while I could easily pull down a cool $18k for my Yamaha CS-80, I have been balking at it ever since the idea arose...because I will NEVER, EVER find one of these things at an affordable price again! Even if that revenue was 100% channeled into studio equipment, losing that particular synth would be a helluva hole in my equipment. In contrast, I was able to get another MS-20 (Mini), a few others I sold in recent times are redoable in more reliable forms (my PPG setup, for example...Waldorf's Blofeld Keyboard is just fine as a functional replacement, plus Wolfgang Palm's doing some wild stuff now with mobile devices), and one I regret selling can be regotten cheaply enough.

The 'Brute rig is one I've been working on as of late, although the eventual result will be a 2 and 2S with two 6Us (maybe), so this is pretty familiar turf. So, one caveat I would make is that it might be a good idea to get the Minibrute 2 first, pair it with the Model D, and then see what needs present themselves. As for me, I'm familiar with the Minibrute's architecture, so I know what needs to be paired with it to get it to go in the directions I want, but if you've not had a lot of experience with patch-overriding a synth's internals, I would really suggest doing that first before dropping a bunch of money on a Rackbrute 6U and a module compliment, then discovering that, wow, none of this does what I had in mind, so now what?

Also, having just discovered modular synthesizers, you might want to observe first. See what others are doing, research what the 'classics' had, then sort out the various strengths and weaknesses you're going to gradually notice. For example, why did Uli Behringer use (cough, cough, 'steal') the Minimoog's overall basics to come up with that Model D? On that one, if you know why the Minimoog was set up the way it was, you might see a couple of other reasons why I'm saying it doesn't go in the Rackbrute.

And remember: what you're contemplating here involves blowing several grand, ultimately...yes, even in that small a cab, if you want it set up correctly. Treat this more as building an instrument that you're likely to use for several years, not something you can toss like a Volca or some such.

Not trying to throw water on your enthusiasm, mind you...it's just that you're wandering into an area that's INFINITELY deep that makes a read through the Sweetwater catalog look like a cursory glance at a Hallmark card, and I'm just noting that you might want to slow a bit here and find out what all of this not-bought-yet gear can and should do before dropping a bushel of moolah on it. Make sense?

Hi, my aim here is to buy a minibrute 2 and use a rackbrute 6u. I need to keep the space small as I'm likely to be moving around a lot and so will sell some of my old synths to fund.

I am totally new to the modular world, but would like to build in the rackbrute a system that can do it all. I like to noodle mostly and already have a Behringer model d, hence it's in my rack.

Do you think it's possible to have a system which would be able to cover all grounds for creating track, ie drums and such? Or have I wandered to deep into my gear acquisition syndrome and become way out of depth?!

I would appreciate any help with a hypothetical system using the minibrute 2 and rackbrute 6u and Behringer model d to create a comprehensive portable system.

Oooh...be careful about how you're reading that Mantis power spec! Tiptop's site says it has 3 x 1A on the +12 rail only; the -12 rail is limited to 1100 mA, and if that's exceeded there'll be problems.

Eurorack power uses bipolar DC supplies for the 12V rails. One side is positive, the other negative, and the 'common' acts more like a 'neutral' line for the bipolar supply purposes. While the +12 rail handles the largest loads as a rule, the -12V rail can add up pretty quickly as well, and BOTH amperage criteria have to be watched to prevent overloading each of the 12V busses. My suggestion is to find powered case solutions where you have suitably large amperage potential on all rails to avoid overtaxing any parts of the power supply setup.

As for the output/mixer issue...if you're going to mix down to mono (which would be what the TriATT would allow), just get a mono output module. Stereo mixers would be better, though, because you're going to want to step up to a spatialized output signal eventually, so my suggestion would be to look into a small performance mixer that allows CV control over audio levels (via exponential VCAs in the mixer), panning, an AUX send/return for paralleling a global effect, and mutes to drop parts of a global patch out to immediately vary the sound. Qu-bit's Mixology is probably the best value in these at present...four channels, stereo, AUX send and return, and so forth, all under voltage control for $399 which is actually pretty cheap when you consider what's built into it. And if you already have a Clouds, running the Mixology output into it, then on from the Clouds (using the Clouds as a post-mix 'playable' processor) to a stereo output would be the way I'd go.

Input-wise, I've found that Doepfer's A-119 is probably the best feature-to-value module of that sort.

Also...when speccing modules, try this trick: divide the module's price by the hp width. The lower you can get the resulting number, the cheaper the overall space utilization becomes. One of Eurorack's little secrets is that when you have room to spread out and use larger-width modules, the price-per-hp tends to go DOWN, so staying in tightly-confined cabs can actually be more spendy with respect to space used than going with something where you can use bigger modules.

my very first skiff... she so pretty!

Main goal is to make a modular system who is my band mate that i can jam next to on my drumset.

Melodic Voices: Pico Voice, uBraids, Microbrute
Melody Generator: o_C (in chord modes or quantermain), PNW (to clock)
LFO: PNW, Maths, (do not foresee using o_C in quadLFO mode..)
Drum Voices: Pico Drums (1 trigger- Bass, 1 trigger- Snare/clap/rim/etc), Pico DSP for drum effects
Drum Triggers: Ddrum Piezo Sensors on my acoustic snare and bass drum to trigger Pico Drums (to layer over the acoustic drum track) and maybe more piezo pads later to do things like trigger LFO/reset clock/other events)
VCA: 2hp VCA (x2) and Maths
DAW / Sampling: MPC1000 linked to modular with a-190-2
External Effects: Blue Lantern Module going to my Zoom MS70cdr to mixer
Drum Mics: Audix d6 on Bass Drum, Shure SM57 on Snare, Zoom h4n Pro Room Mic
Controllers: BeatStep Pro, Keystep
Mixer: Zed-10FX

My advice- unless you have limitless pockets and wads of cash to burn is to RUN AWAY NOW! Just kidding :-)

Eurorack is super expensive. I priced out a basic 10 module system with case and power and it was 4-5k!
I can only imagine a serious 9Ux200HP system costing 20k or more.

Ha ha ha!

... I see what you did there.

There are no short term plans for expansion.
Maybe some time later.
-- Klavis

Thanks for the fast answer! :)

-- bj_gzp

Just a small idea to enlarge the power of this module when " Maybe some time later. " comes: a setting wich outputs the quantised CV on the sub connecter.
I do like the fact that there are a lot of options for scaling. For the projects i'm working on the spanish, pentatonic and hungarian scales are a must.

Thank you Lugia for your detailled answer, really appreciated!

About Reason : as said, I just want to focus on the hardware, so I'm seldom using Reason anymore. Anyway, during the rare times I was using it with the synths, I never noticed any timing issues yet.

The case : the Mantis case has 3A on the +12V distributed over 3 zones (1A each). So I guess there should be enough margin there.

Great tip on the input, I'll have a look at the other options to have more functions, could be useful indeed :-)

For the output : I've read so many different opinions on this, so couldn't get to a decent conclusion. Yours is the most motivated one I found ;-) So an attenuator like the Intellijel triatt followed by an output module (stereo) should do? I've updated the rack with it. There's so many options but I'd like to keep the prices not too high if possible.

Your essay was an interesting read. I plan on using the BSP to send the signals and already have 2 LFOs from my synths so it should get me started... slowly. I just want to build it progressively by starting from the basics. Along the way I might switch to other modules than the ones projected here, I don't know. I'm in no hurry at all as you tend to imply. The Clouds is here for now, we'll see if I like its replacement or not once it comes out, that can wait. This rack is not my first draft and I hit the 'del' button often! I was just to a point where I was satisfied with it and couldn't go any further without asking for opinions first. I'm using VCV rack to get used to the whole modular "concept" and see if it works for me. And Youtube has been a very good friend to discover new modules or check the ones I'd like to have.

Again, thanks for your answer. Cheers!

EDITED Apr 11th 2018, 16:13

@leoelectroid sent the module literally two hours after the payment, and was great to deal with all along. recommended.

EDITED Apr 11th 2018, 11:22

Hokay...let's get into this. Thus far, the equipment you have on hand makes sense, although using it in tandem with Reason where timing issues are critical might reveal some limitations. I've heard from a lot of professional types that Reason can have problems with timing and sync when dealing with external clocking. My best guess is that Reason varies its latency, so if you start with a fixed latency value and Reason opts to alter this on the fly without warning, your timings between in the box and outside of the box can slip and get a bit sloppy. I've also heard that FL can have issues of the same sort, but not to the magnitude of Reason. And yes, I've used Reason (quite some time back) along with several other DAWs over many years, and I eventually opted to stick with Ableton Live out of experience...which has largely been very positive. So if you notice timing 'slop' starting to ease into your work, suspect Reason first.

• The case : the TipTop Audio Mantis looks nice and not too expensive. I like the look of the Eowave 104HP studio case too. Any reasons why I should choose one over the other?

OK...with powered cases, you need to take several things into consideration. The most obvious is amperage...a sufficient supply should actually supply more than you need, because some modules can load-spike a bit on power-up, with some being worse than others. You want a lot of margin between your total module draw and the supply's rating...and not only because of this point, but also because letting the power supply 'loaf' will mean less component wear, and that spells better stability and reliability over the long-term. I personally like to overspec power supplies by 1/3rd, but that's an old habit from amateur radio work where amperage draws can sometimes fluctuate sizably and abruptly. +20%, however, is good enough.

Also, check what sort of supply you're dealing with. There's two kinds; in Eurorack, we almost always deal with switching-type supplies. These actually use high-frequency methods of regulating and rectifying incoming AC...and because of this, some of them can be noisy at the DC rail outputs. So if the case in question has a switching supply, you're going to want filtered power busboards...these not only knock down the HF crud from lesser-quality switchers, they also help to remove backplane crosstalk resulting from modules sending crud back down their DC supply lines and dirtying up the power rails. The other kind is linear supplies...the 'gold standard', really. Very clean and stable DC outputs, and usually beefy components are used in these that don't tend to fail from simply being a little touchy. Drawbacks: they're heavier, and they're more expensive. But those are really the only drawbacks; performance-wise, they're a big step up from switchers, and in big 5U systems, you tend to see them much more than switching supplies. Honestly, these days I've been looking a bit more seriously at Erica's powered 126 hp x 2 cabs; sure, they're 200 EUR more than the Eowave, but those Latvians build those things for serious work, with 2.5A on each 12V rail via an internal linear supply. And also, this is a good example of getting what you pay for...with hefty linear-supplied DC being well worth the price!

• I'd like to interface my current setup with the modules, hence the Pico INPUT to get the sounds of my synths eventually. Any opinions on this module? Will it keep the signal clean?

As noted above, Erica builds serious stuff. The sole flaw I see with the INPUT, though, is that it lacks either an envelope follower (to derive CV from the incoming signal's dynamics...very useful, actually) or a gate/trigger comparator (to send one of those when the incoming audio's dynamics cross a certain amplitude level...again, quite useful as a control source). But if the idea is to just send audio in without deriving any control functions, it'll work well for that.

• My audio interface is a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 that should be able to handle modular levels. Do you advice nevertheless some kind of attenuator / mixer before plugging the outputs of the modular? If yes, why? :-)

Here's why: first of all, modular synths can be a bit touchy and unpredictable with signal levels...these can jump around a LOT, from very low, barely audible to (potentially without warning!) 10V RMS or more! If you want to be 100% certain that you can protect the Focusrite (which is a fairly low-end device, not something particularly rugged) from input overvoltage, you WILL need something to step the synth levels down to normal line-levels.

Second: the Focusrite probably has balanced inputs. The patchpoints within a modular are 99.999% UNbalanced (there's a couple of exceptions). These have different impedances, and depending on how touchy the Focusrite is about incoming impedance, it might not like something other than a 600 Ohm balanced incoming signal, resulting in several sorts of irritating outcomes like weird frequency responses, distortion, or even potentially component harm.

Third: ground loops. These are frickin' annoying hums and noises that creep into audio when a signal source is on one ground, but the device it's connected to is on another, and the ground plane tries to establish itself via your audio line. Avoiding this is done in two ways: ground lifts at the connected device (potentially less effective) and balanced and isolated outputs at the source (the 'correct' way). Now, you might argue that if the synth is connected via a DC line from a 'brick' supply, this won't be a problem; if so, you may be in for some annoying surprises, because the ground plane will ALSO try to establish itself via the DC rails under certain conditions, which will destabilize the synth altogether due to AC 'ripple' on the DC supply.

Last: DC offset. You DO NOT want this coming out of your outputs! DC, when fed to amplifiers and speakers in sufficiently high voltages, can cause everything from the infamous 'DC thump' (best known from the ARP 2600, which had DC-coupled outputs) when a signal is present to, under extreme cases, actual electronic damage to amplifiers and PHYSICAL damage to speakers. I've seen this, btw...it's a definite 'oh shit!!!' moment that you don't want to experience!

The solution to all of this is to have an output module that offers some sort of audio isolation, certainly DC isolation, and preferably balanced TRS or XLR output jacks. Best of all are isolator/outputs that offer transformer isolation, as having a little 'iron' in your signal creates very small euphonic harmonic emphases due to transformers' having hysteresis...which is a complex thing I'm not going to explain here (I don't have the time, space, or desire for carpal tunnel syndrome!), but which slightly emphasizes even harmonics in a way that 'warms' the audio and tightens it up without imposing apparent distortion. This, plus attenuation to get the synth-level signals under control, is 100% necessary at a modular synth's output. If you're serious about how your instrument can and should sound, something of this sort is absolutely essential!

• I plan first to get to the "basics" (VCO-VCF-VCA-Envelope...) with the Black Wavetable VCO and the Polivoks VCF, the Z4000 and the Veils. Any opinions on this?

See https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/3015 I don't write these things for lulz, after all.

• Any good suggestions to fill the gaps are heartily welcomed :-) Still looking for some nice effects modules that could also be used with my actual synths.

Well, yeah...but it seems like you need to get to a more concrete stage in build development first. You're missing the Clouds yet assuming Mutable's replacement will be the same form factor (which wasn't the case with the Plaits, which replaced the Braids), and that's not the best way to proceed. Remember: this isn't a race...you're not trying to crash-build something for a gig this coming weekend. Consider carefully...and do some research. Look at others' racks and look at classic modulars to see why they were built the way they were, and with what. Back up first and build several 'sketches'...if one or two look promising, hone in on what makes them promising. And don't be afraid to screw up, because MG has a 'delete' function whereas physical devices and the costs associated with them definitely don't. Good luck!

EDITED Apr 10th 2018, 01:25

Hello!

I've finally decided to get into eurorack modular, because it looks fun and I really like the idea of building your own personal synth... I've been making music for a while now, mostly with a DAW (Reason) but recently purchased some synths. It just feels more real and I spend enough time on the computer already!

My equipement :
- Beatstep Pro
- Microbrute
- Erebus
- Blofeld (desktop)
- Digitakt
- 2 effects pedals (Zoom MS-70 CDR & Boss RV-6).

I'm mostly into ambient, IDM, but also techno and dub techno... Some glitchy stuffs too...

Questions / remarks :
- The case : the TipTop Audio Mantis looks nice and not too expensive. I like the look of the Eowave 104HP studio case too. Any reasons why I should choose one over the other? (besides a stronger and internal power supply for the Mantis, or a cheaper price for the Eowave one).
- I'd like to interface my current setup with the modules, hence the Pico INPUT to get the sounds of my synths eventually. Any opinions on this module? Will it keep the signal clean?
- My audio interface is a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 that should be able to handle modular levels. Do you advice nevertheless some kind of attenuator / mixer before plugging the outputs of the modular? If yes, why? :-)
- I plan first to get to the "basics" (VCO-VCF-VCA-Envelope...) with the Black Wavetable VCO and the Polivoks VCF, the Z4000 and the Veils. Any opinions on this? Should I start with another combination first?
- The Clouds might be replaced by its successor as I heard it will be out soon.
- Any good suggestions to fill the gaps are heartily welcomed :-) Still looking for some nice effects modules that could also be used with my actual synths.

Thank you for your time and your good advices!

EDITED Apr 10th 2018, 04:56

I sent of a bunch of modular sounds to Viktor Pilkington who patched some of them together and added his lovely brand of reverbed atmosphere and vocals to make this ambient pop track. Enjoy!

I would go with the Erica Synths Drone system even though it is expensive.

Noob mistake sorry all if you have added this to your racks please remove it so it can be deleted

Oh bugger cannot delete it been assigned in other users racks :(

Lol you just added a duplicate of the module itself instead of adding one on the marketplace mate.

Please delete.

In a recent MG forum thread, I tossed out some examples of synthesizers and other devices...the prebuilt variety...that I felt 'played nice' in a modular setup. The key there is 'connectivity' – do these synths have useful I/O that lends them to integration in a modular setup, or at least a setup that has a large modular contingent? And it occurred to me: since we tend to concentrate here on MG on true modulars and, to some extent, patchable synths from modular manufacturers, a list of currently-available synthesizers as well as some past gems that can fit well in that instrument set might be useful. After all, a lot of users here may benefit from adding some of these in amongst their modular gear, or users of these could potentially benefit from tossing a rack or two of modules into the fray. Henceforth...

Oh, mind you, patchables from manufacturers that also make lines of modules aren't heavily represented in here. For the most part, MG's users know most of these, so I scaled that back except for some notable examples. Henceforth again...

AKAI: No, no, NO...I'm not going to discuss the 'Wolves', perhaps some of the worst analog implementations in recent history. They were an anomaly, really...but just before those atrocities, Akai did a couple of very analog-friendly keyboard controllers, the MAX49 and 25. But they discontinued these before the modular boom went totally berserk and then came out with...well, yeah. Not everyone in big business is a genius, obviously. But these two keyboard controllers are worth tracking down, actually.

ARTURIA: Lots of stuff works. Synth-wise, all of the 'Brutes' interface well with a typical (ie: 1V/8va scaling, positive gate/triggers) modular setup, with the Micro and the redone Mini 2 and 2S being really obvious examples, but the Matrixbrute also has loads of connectivity. Can't discount their controllers, either...I use a Keystep with my Digisound 80 these days, plus the BeatStep and BeatStep Pro are great controllers for sequencing or drum-triggering. No surprise here that Arturia's stepping into the Eurorack market with their Rackbrute setups...it seems like their next logical step.

BEHRINGER: Their recent synth, the Model D, has proper connectivity, and the supposedly-coming-soon Neutron has extensive patchability. Presumably, Behringer is reissuing a lot of older gear with certain makeovers and form-factor shrinkage, so it's likely there'll be more that fit the criteria. As to when...ahh, who knows?

ELEKTRON: Their Analog Keys keyboard can output CV/gate for all four of its voices, and even more twisted is the fact that the four CV/gate outputs all have their own dedicated track on the device's built-in multitimbral sequencer. It even speaks both dialects of DINsync and knows how to 'talk' to analog Korg and Yamaha gear, and if you get deep into it, it can even control EML's crazy-ass 1/12V-step synths! To be quite honest, those of you on MG looking for a proper master controller that can handle both the MIDI and modular environments might need to take a serious look at one of these! The Analog Four sequencer/synth also has a similar CV/gate implementation...but, perhaps a bit annoyingly, the Octatrack has no such per-voice outputs. Woulda been nice...also, woulda been nice to have that sort of connectivity in their other stuff, too, since they obviously knew how it should work for the Analog Keys, but MIDI only...ah, well...

FUTURE RETRO: They did the 777 right, I thought...and the XS is a nice patchable monosynth with MIDI-CV/gate conversion and a few extra tricks up its sleeve, a worthy alternative to some of the more mass-market patchables out there these days. But some of the other ideas are just sort of...why? The Revolution seems just obtuse and more for looks than function, and the Mobius is pretty out of the loop (pun intended!) as far as hardware sequencers go these days. Really, if they'd concentrate more or player ergonomics and less on trying to look trippy or whatever, I'm sure they could whip out some killer devices. They have before, after all.

KEITH McMILLEN: It's possible to forget, I suppose, that KMM offers the QuNexus, since they don't do synths. Damn shame, too...because the QuNexus is basically the 'poor man's Roli Seaboard'. It has very similar pressure/position sensing and multiple CV/gate ports, yet it's a mere $179. I suppose most people get these and hook them up to a laptop or tablet, but there's more going on to these than might be suspected.

KORG: Korg has used, since forever, the same Hz/V linear scaling and negative gate/triggers that we all are familiar with in the modern-day MS-20 Mini. But more recently, their gear which has 'sync' I/O uses a very compatible positive clock pulse. So while connecting a Korg up to interface with a current modular might be a PITA without a standard-change module like The Harvestman's English Tear, the sync in many of their recent offerings can link up with sequencer clocks without a hitch. A few Korg devices from way back, though, used something that looks like Roland's DINsync...but isn't, as it wants to see and/or output a 48 ppqn pulse signal. Interestingly, Korg also made a MIDI/DIN sync box that could convert this bidirectionally, and which also could switch between 24 (Roland) and 48 (Korg) ppqn sync signals. Good luck finding one of those rare critters, tho...thankfully, you can get an Elektron Analog Keys as well as a few current modules that can handle this duty.

Also, while on the subject of Korg, it's worth pointing out that their ARP Odyssey reissues behave normally, since they're replications of the original ARP circuits which are, in fact, the origin of our beloved 1V/8va + positive trigger/gate standard. Plus, the SQ-1 (aka 'the best sequencer value out there') can work in Hz/V and negative gate/trig as well as 1V/8va and positive, making it suitable for just about anything you can get your mitts on! I can even hook mine up to my weird Crumar that has 1V scaling but negative gating. Pretty damn sweet for $100!

MOOG: Modern Moogs (except for the modular reissues, weirdly) all use the same CV and gate/trig response we all know. However, it's worth noting that earlier Moog gear often used that weird 'S-Trig' system that Moog was so enamored with (plus some of their modulars also did some nonstandard CV scaling). If you come across one of these, you'll recognize that it has this because of the oddball 2-pin 'Jones' jack on the patch panel. This is usable, but only by devices that can output inverted gate/trigger responses. But that aside, Moog also makes a lot of things with proper CV control besides synths, such as their various effects boxes, and their expression pedal is sort of the 'gold standard' for modular synth pedal controllers. Oh, and not to be forgotten is the fact that two of their theremin models (Theremini and Etherwave+) also output CV, which I've always thought was a neat touch. Lots going on there with Bob's legacy in Asheville...

NOVATION: Most recent Novation stuff is purely MIDI for control...except for one item: the Circuit Mono Station, which can output a channel of CV/gate and also has clocking I/O. And this is an odd little box, given its complicated voice architecture but no proper readout for the sequencer and some other functions. Thankfully, there are third-party solutions to this, but you'd think they could've put SOME kind of little OLED 'postage stamp' on this. Sort of a shame that they don't do more with analog control; back in the day, the BassStation Rack and SuperBassStation both had MIDI-CV/gate conversion as well as CV/gate control and were pretty handy for that in addition to being pretty decent monosynths.

OBERHEIM: Yes, the reissued SEMs in their various flavors are not only interconnectable, they're virtually tiny modulars in of themselves! But get Tom Oberheim near Dave Smith, and the analog flame seems to fade, as their collaboration, the OB-6, has the same not-really analog implementation as the rest of the DSI offerings. Kinda annoying of Doug...after all, Sequential's late lamented Pro-One had loads of connectivity, and they were around back when MIDI was just a French word for 'noon'. But Uli Behringer seems to be floating around this, so...meh.

ROLAND: Roland, actually, has always stuck to the same interfacing format that present-day modulars use. So anything Roland that has CV and gate/trig connections can interconnect 1:1 with your modules; quite some time back, I would use an MC-202 with various other modulars and patchables as a controller/sequencer, and the only thing it wasn't friendly with was, of course, my MS-20...for obvious reasons. However, their idea of sync for a long time was the DINsync standard, a 24 ppqn pulse signal that interfaced via 5-pin DIN sockets, so interfacing a Roland's clock only works with something that can translate DIN to clock pulses, or vice-versa. Note that this DINsync isn't Korg's idea of what that was (see above). Some of their recent VCM-type modelers also offer CV/gate outputs, such as the two channels of that found on the JD-XA. I would think that a modular synth might get a bit creeped out by being hooked up to one of these not-really-analog things they do now, tho...anyway, it was also nice to note the trig-out connection on the TR-8S as it really needs that to be a proper successor to the 808 and 909 (and everything else hiding inside it).

(FYI: an SH-01A + the K-25m = pretty much ½ of an MC-202, since the MC-202 was based on the SH-101, which the SH-01A is meant to be a clone of. All that's missing is 'channel 2' on the sequencer and, natch, the annoying 'chiclet' keyboard. Useful info to remember to avoid forking over buttload$ of ca$h on a vintage '202.)

WALDORF: Everything Waldorf does these days keyboard-wise doesn't interconnect directly to a modular environment, but they've got some boxes that fit into the world 'o patchcords just fine. The Pulse 2 can actually function as a monophonic MIDI-CV/gate converter in addition to being a pretty excellent monosynth desktop module. Definitely something to keep in mind if you need an extra monophonic voice AND a MIDI converter. Another weird thing, connectivity-wise, can be found on their Rocket monosynth box...a filter input, allowing you to use it as a sort-of-a-2pole. And, yes...the 2-pole itself, offspring of the 4-pole and X-pole filter boxes, and a fine sound-processing thing in of itself.

YAMAHA: Actually, the early monophonic CS synths have CV and gate I/O...but with these, you run into the same issues as with the Korg MS synths: Hz/V scaling and inverse gate/trigger response. But this also means that if you have a module (or two) that can translate to that, these will work just the same as the present-day MS-20 Mini. I only mention Yamaha in passing, though, because as far as analog, that's it, no analog connectivity for many years now, not even in the CS version of their Reface line; remember, they gave the world the DX-7, the anti-analog synth bar none and a big part of why lots of synthesists jettisoned their analog gear in the first part of the 1980s. After all, the FYOOCHUR WUZ HEER!!!!...yeah right. Dumb.

Anyway, as far as present-day and recent offerings go (plus a few antiques!) from the MI end of synthesizers and the like, that's about it. Thankfully, these are by no means the only game in town, since quite a few names familiar to those of us on MG are perfectly capable and willing to crank out patchables, sequencers, and control devices that have the modular landscape in mind at all times. But everything above offers interesting possibilities, too, and are worth looking over when building out beyond the modular case.

I think, given what's out there right now, your solution is actually going to be in two modules...

Said two modules are in this build: the Erica Drum Sequencer and the 1010 Music Bitbox 2. This setup allows you to change patterns, sequences, etc on the fly with the Erica, and the Bitbox also allows you to trigger things manually by tapping its touchscreen, in addition to its 16 trigger-ins which matches the Erica's 16 trigger-outs.

Also, since the Bitbox can sample, I placed a Ladik stereo input in front of it. Then, since drums like 'punch', I added a WMD MSCL stereo compressor for the Bitbox's output. Handy metering device next, then a Happy Nerding Isolator, which gives you not only a stereo output at line level, but also transformer-isolates the rig's audio outs to help avoid ground loop and noise problems. The Erica Drum Sequencer isn't priced on here, but if you check their website, it's actually 600 EUR. Slap this mess in a suitably-powered 84 hp cab and it's done for about $2k, maybe a bit less. Should be the sort of thing you're looking for...plenty of on-the-fly playability, buttloads of storage for samples, kits, patterns, and sequences, and compact enough to stick in a backpack, more or less.

Agree I will keep the Moog and sell the Korg. Probably add another small desk and ditch the futon which I am not using.

HI Lugia and thank you for your response. I have a lot to think about now! ;)
I alreay own the M.I. Grids, which is very useful to create funky and strange rhythmic illusions. I think I'll stick with that and patch it to some nice fx. But then... what would you recomend for some straight and basic drum patterns? Thinking about live situations: I don't really like normal sequencers, I prefer something that triggers as fast as possible the right pattern when it comes to straight up beats, that's why I was thinking about the Transient.
Are there any modules able to save presets and then just play them on the fly?
...hope I made myself clear...

EDITED Apr 7th 2018, 22:48

Careful...if you sell items, make sure and consider possible future functionality first. In the case of the Sub37, that has a lot that can function well in the direction you're heading. But the Microkorg....not so much so, as it doesn't have the level of connectivity (either physical or sonic) with this new 'universe' as the Moog does. Plus, if the concern is desk space, then it's time to think about a small keyboard stand to move devices onto if they belong there.

But at the same time, there's a sneaky lesson in here as to how a rig starts to grow in size. So also consider the physical expansion factor. You may well wind up beyond the 'all-in-one-bag' result...but the thing to do if that happens (by necessity) is not to try and retrench in the small form factor, but how to grow sensibly into the larger one.

Also, this is the start of where inventiveness plays a big part in a rig's ergonomics. How do you make system growth result in an easier-to-use result, rather than something that's just...well, bigger? For that, I would consider looking at some concepts related to larger UI design and operation; airplane cockpits are a good analogy, as they also consist of numerous indicators and controls, all of which may come into use at any given time. And frankly, this just keeps expanding in scale from that 'seed', since an electronic music studio isn't necessarily as bound to acoustic isolation, massive mix positions, etc as a commercial studio would be. My studio, at this point in time, sort of looks like some sort of industrial process control room, albeit with a mixer and studio monitoring...but then, that makes perfect sense, since composing and performing electronic music on a larger scale is very much like 'process control'.

Don't look at this as 'work', though....just consider it as another part of a 'creative jigsaw puzzle'.

Great! Thank you so much for the quick replies. This seems like a great direction and I will definitely do this!

I'm not all that convinced that the Transient+ has a point to it. FR touts it as a 'drum module', but it can obviously do more. But the 'more' that it can do is hampered by an underpowered user interface, a storage maximum of a mere 16 gig, and too much going on behind too few controls. So I'm left thinking that it doesn't make sense at all, and it's another example of FutureRetro having the right concept, but the wrong execution.

Consider: if it's a drum module only, then why should it be so big? Most dedicated drum modules are pretty small. So that screws the Transient+ on that front. Seriously...Erica has a pre-sampled drum module with quite a few drum sound options that fits in just 3 hp. You could cram four of those in the Transient+'s space.

But then, if it's a sampler module, then why is the user interface so hampering and why the limited data ceiling on the microSD? That's not exactly what you'd want to see. Plus, in the same general price range you already have other sampler modules that can kick this thing's butt up one wall and down the other.

Or...if it can do all these functions, how exactly do you make sense of this? True, it's got a menu-driven method which makes use of its OLED 'stamp' screen...but consider what a bitch it'd be to jump around between needed parameters in a live performance situation. This sort of UI might work in the studio, but when you're 'under the gun' before an audience...perhaps not so well, then.

Jared Flickinger just hasn't really managed to nail a lot of his company's recent offerings, IMHO. Take the Zillion. Now, here's something with a lot of promise: an algorithmic sequence generator based on the concepts used in the legendary Triadex Muse. Done right, this would be a required buy for a HUGE segment of the electronic music userbase. But it wasn't done right; the user interface wasn't intuitive (unlike the actual Triadex Muse, amazingly) and certain parts of the operation were hampered by a reliance on external MIDI cues...again, unlike the Triadex Muse, which was self-regulating once its parameters had been set. In the end, you got a product that was a niche-type curiosity when compared to what it was initially claiming to be. And ultimately, why would I (or anyone) do this with hardware, anyway? In Ableton Live, there's tons of tools that can do what the Zillion was supposed to...and they fit in the same computer as part of the same DAW being used to create works using both internal software and external hardware. And they're already paid for when you bought the DAW in the first place.

So, frankly, I wouldn't go with any version of this. Look either at more upscale at offerings such as the Orthagonal ER-301 or the 1010 Bitbox+ if you're trying to get at what the Transient+ is supposed to be about...or, as you noted, just assemble the various necessary functions from more basic modules. Either way, you get more to work with.