Answering questions with questions is a very effective habit here in MG forums.
They force you to think for yourself.
I have got a lot of ”questions” from Ronin and others that have been very helpful to me.
I wrote a letter to Ladik about my project and he replied immediately!
Here is his response:
”To make such thing properly (and in precise tune), you´ll need something like "starting CV" and "ending CV" (source CV in the beginning and target CV as the end value, both quite precise).
Imagine sequencer with three CV outputs (or three seqencers) controlling notes of your your chords (advancing sequence). For slow transisiton between notes you can use an slew limiter (lag processor).
Envelopes are not usualy made to be "in tune" (no precise voltage output useful for tuning purposes) because they are usualy used for tweaking filter (it does not to be in precise tune) and opening/closing VCA.”
The same solution as Ronin proposed :-)
It seems that I have to buy O&C.
I know some coding but have not practiced it for many, many years. But it should be fun to dive in to O&C:s code.
Thanks for your suggestions !
My project seems to be more difficult than I thougt :-)
I will check the manuals of the modules you propose and see if I maybee already have some of theese functions in my modules.
An EG with AHDSR seems to be the solution!
Most of the modules I find only have Hold times in a few seconds but Ladik C-215 AHDSR
seems to have Hold time for hours? But I’m not sure as the information about the module is not very precise.
But one of the labels is ”hours” but I am not sure if that even refers to Hold time.
What do you think?
Sinfonion looks great but is a little bit to large and expensive for me :-(
And chords is not the main purpose for my goal. Just an example of what I wish to achive.
I guess there is no easy way to get what I want as only you have proposed any suggestion.
But I will try to find out a way. And that kind of work is one of the great things with modular. Even if I don’t achive what I want I’m sure I will learn a lot on the way :-)
”So do I understand you right that you need a kind of LFO that goes very slowly up to a certain maximum value and then holds that value, right? How long should that hold that maximum value?
-- GarfieldModular”
Exactly!
I want it to hold the value until it get a new trigger/gate and starts over again from one level to another.
I guess it requires a complex patching or maybe it is not possible?
Maybe some kind of LFO but I rather think of some other kind of function generator like Maths or an advanced EG.
One patch I will test:
Three oscillators are tuned to the same pitch e.g. C1.
Osc 1 then slowly raise to C2. Osc 2 to E2 and Osc 3 to G2 (with different speeds) so a chord is evolving from the C1 pitch.
I need a VC function where a voltage slowly increases or decreases from one value to another and then stays there. I guess there are many solutions for this but I do not know how to do it :-(
Thanks Garfield for a nice comment!
And thank you Lugia for (as always) very interesting tips. I think these kind of modules are the stuff that I need but not are aware of. I will check Ladiks logic manuals and see how they can help me. I know my patches are very basic, but I learn along the way.
Marbles and Minibrute 2S sequencer plays an A minor pentatonic scale randomly through Plaits, 2HP Pluck, a flute sampled in Disting MK4 and Minibrutes VCO 1.
Thanks again for good advice!
You are right about the Slew limiter. I newer use it so there I got 8 HP more space.
But I keep the A-183 Passive Dual Attenuator as I use it in most of my patches.
I have three LFO:s that gives random waves so I wait with a dedicated S&H module.
But I will buy the ”Ladik Bool2 – logic module” and ”2hp Multi-Scale Pitch Quantizer” as soon as possible .
When I have learned these two modules it is maybe time for Pamela's New Workout or Temps Utile.
I know it is impossible to make generative music with a 6U x 84 rack ;-)
But I try anyway.
I have 27 HP empty space left in my rack.
What shall I fill it with for making as close as possible to generative patches?
I have read some comparator manuals and I do not think that the output from my sequencer can be used for creating trigger pulses, but I can be wrong.
With the linked picture I try to explain.
https://tinyurl.com/v8sz54g
Fig. 1 shows the output from my sequencer and fig.2 shows how I think the output must look like for creating comparator triggers.
Thanks for the replies!
I will check if I can use Distings Comparator A-7.
Otherwise there seems to be some cheap comparators out there.
It is the sequencer in Minibrute 2s. It has four tracks. 1 & 2 are connected and gives pitch and gate.
Track 3 & 4 can be used for different purposes. Like pitch or gate. So with pitch on track 3 and gate on track 4 there is no problem. But I want to use both track 3 & 4 for pitch and then I have no corresponding gates.
But I guess there are modules that can convert a pitch cv to a gate cv.
I have a sequencer with a pitch cv output, but no gate trigger output.
Is it possible to use the cv output both as a pitch cv and a gate trigger?
For clarification:
I use the Arturia Minibrute 2s sequencer that have three separate tracks. I can use track 2 and 3 for pitch or gate cv.
So if I use track 2 for pitch cv I can use track 3 for gate cv and sync that to track 2 and then there is no problem.
But when I use both track 2 and 3 for pitch cv (two separate melody tracks) there is no corresponding gate cv for the two melody tracks.
Since I'm a beginner at Eurorack, I can't judge if your rack is good for generative ambient music or not.
But I have a pretty small rack myself, and when I try to patch something generative, the Maths - Plaits - Marbles combination is fantastic. So I can really recommend you to buy Marbles from Mutable Instruments.
Good Luck!
Many thanks to both Wishbone and and Garfield. It is very encouraging for a beginner to get a positive response to the first stumbling attempts to patch some "generative stuff".
And by the way, I like Wishbones cat ;-)
An A minor pentatonic scale played by four oscillators and one sampler (Disting MK4).
Thanks for the advice. I actually have some guitar pedals that I havn’t used with my rack. Like the Yamaha REX 50 digital multiprocessor. I will make it a try!
I am quite happy with my rack but I need some more tools for audio processing. I’m thinking of modules like Joranalogue Filter 8 or maybe a Clouds clone but I need some more suggestions.
Now I am in a process of learning how to patch and understand my modules. One goal is to learn how to combine different modules so they mimic other dedicated modules like a crossfader. Not so much that I need these functions. More for learning how they work.
One invaluable source is ”Patch & Tweak” that for example have learned me how to build generative patches with my 6U x 64 rack although that is ”Impossible” ;-)
For crossfading I found a good algorithm in Disting and I am thinking of to get the Doepfer A-134-2.
Thanks again for taking your time. I do not have enough knowledge for understanding exactly what you mean. But I think I got the big picture.
The modules I can use is Doepfer dual multi A-180-2, Doepfer dual attenautor A-183-1, Veils Quad VCA, an inverter, Mixer, Maths and some LFO:s.
Enough?
I guess I can get a crossfader by starting with some vca:s, an lfo and an inverter. But I understand that is not enough.
What do I need more and how shall I think?
I have read the manual, searched forums, seen Divkids video but I still don’t understand how the Four voice polyphony in 2 hp Pluck works.
Very glad if someone could explain.
Thanks for the advice!
Most of the modules you suggest are new for me so I have to check them out.
Self-patching Marbles is a part of my toolbox for generative stuff.
In Disting I mostly use Quantizer, Waveshaper and Sample and Hold.
Thanks again for taking your time helping me.
What I mean with ”OK” is that I can make some generative patches but they are very basic. The reason is hopefully that I do not yet have the knowledge and skill for more advanced patching. But then it is up to me learning more.
I have read quite a few comments from you and others about newbies racks aimed for generative music that says that their racks are unsuitable because they do not include certain type of modules.
My guess is that even my rack needs some more modules. That was the purpose of my question.
Based on Minibrute 2S I’m building a rack where I try to patch some generative ambient stuff. It works OK but I know there are a lot of modules and functions that I’m not even aware of that I guess can help me going further.
Would be very glad for some advice what to buy next.
After good advice from Lugia, Ronin and others I have started my first rack that I am very satisfied with.
Most of my patches (ambient) are based on the Marbles-Plaits combination. Now I want one more ”macro-oscillator”. I am thinking of buing one more Plaits (or clone). But I guess there maybe are some better alternatives as a complement to Plaits?
So far I have used most of my modules in my patches.
As Lugia have pointed out in other posts a small rack do not need buffered multiples. I agree with that but my A-180-3 was very cheap :-)
In comments to my first rack suggestions ”everybody” told me I need a slew limiter. So far I have not really figured out how to use it in my patches. But I am sure I will learn.
There are some more modules I have on my wish list as Maths, Tiptops Fold Processor and Miso. But that has to wait.
I will also buy a delay module but so far I am using some guitar pedals for effects.
But my main question is:
Shall I buy one more Plaits or go for something else?
My rack so far:
Now I understand what to do.
I guess I can not get a precise range like exactly +2V to +4V. But I can live with that :-)
Sorry to say, but I have not figured out how to tune Marbles CV range to for example +2V to +4V. But I will try.
I have a ”problem” with Minibrute 2S.
With pitch in to VCO 1 from Marbles CV out (0-2V) the MB2S plays, as supposed, in the lowest octaves.
With VCO 2 there is no problem as it can be tuned to all octaves when fed from an external pitch CV.
But for VCO 1 there is only a fine tuning so I am stucked with only low pitches from Marbles when I use VCO 1.
(I do nor want to use the Output voltage range 0 to +5V or -5 to +5V).
That is confirmed from Arturia who have tried to help me.
My walk-around is to use Distings algorithm A-1 Precision Adder and add 1 or 2V to the pitch CV from Marbles. That works fine but I am sure you guys have a much better solution.
Once again, thanks for the advice!
As I understand my Veils is pretty similar to Quad VCA?
As I already have at least 4 independent oscillators and kind of 4 LFO:s in my rack I think I can test your suggestions in my existing rack before I buy the dedicated modules you suggest.
After good advice from Lugia, Ronin and others I have started my first Eurorack. The base is a Minibrute 2S that I have completed with some modules.
Marbles and Plaits have been a very good combination and is so far the foundtion for most of my patches. But they are a little bit to ”percussive”. What I want is a sound source that can give me kind of sweeping strings and droning organs for ambient type of tunes.
I would be very glad for some suggestion how to achieve that.
Maybe some kind of complex oscillators or esotheric filters?
Thanks for good advice.
I did not mean that I can master a whole rack. Just that most of my individual modules functions are familiar for me exept Marbles, Plaits and a lot of Distings algorithms. But after some hours fiddling I think I now have a good understanding of Plaits.
Pretty much of my rack is a result of earlier tips from booth Lugia and Ronin1973.
I thougt Ripples would be a good extra filter but I maybe need a third one?
After your new advices I think my rack will look something like this:
(Bitbox and Z-DSP are for the moment a little bit to expensive. Are there some cheaper alternatives that you can suggest?)
Today I have installed all modules in my first rack!
As I am a little bit used with desktop analog synths the only modules I have to learn is Marbles and Plaits. And they seems to be a pair that likes each other.
But there is still a big black hole in the rack that wants to be filled with modules.
Would be glad for some advices about what would be the next modules if I want to make ambient music and maybe try to learn a little bit about generative patches.
After a lot of help in this forum I now have bought my first modules.
The rack is based on a Minibrute 2S that I wanted to expand for making the synth more powerful and fun.
I hope it now will be a base for some ambient experimentation and maybe suitable for learning the first steps in generative patching. But I am sure I need some more modules for that purpose. So I hope I will get som advice how to proceed.
I guess the sequencer is not the best choice but I already have it and it has been a good tool for sequencing my Moog Werkstatt. But I guess that I later will remove it for making space for new modules as I also have the Korg SQ-1 and Arturia Beatstep and Keystep.
Thanks for the information.
I did not see the magazine at Superbooth :-(
But now I have subscribed :-)
After carefully evaluated comments to my earlier posts (Thank you all!) I have more or less decided how my first rack will look.
It is based on an Arturia Minibrute 2S and my goal is just to make that synth even better and more suited for experimentation and having fun!
If I can make some ambient music and simple generative patches with my build remains to be seen. But I hope so.
Before I clear my bank account I would really appreciate som final comments!
Thanks for the advice.
I will use the Disting and figure our how to use the slew rate limiter. If I need that function a dedicated module will be my next buy.
I have PAIA:s modular synth 4700 that I built as a DIY kit 1982. It is still working (partial) . The problem is that it use Hz/V. But I can use the filter, EG, VCA and spring reverb.
I even have the Moog Werkstatt and some guitar stomp boxes like reverb and a Eurorack step sequencer from Synthorek that I can use plus the Korg SQ-1 and Arturia Keystep and Beatstep.
So I think I can have some fun with what I already have for a start.
But I am sure that you are right that the next modules will be a slew rate limiter, an EG, one more VCA and some effect module.
But as I wrote, for the moment I have a limited budget :-(
