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Ceiling. Definitely the ceiling...and a pile of carriage bolts.

More seriously, if you're going to have an audio input, you'll also want it to output envelope signals. Have a look at Doepfer's A-119, which is pretty much the standard for these. Not only do you get the necessary preamp, you also get an envelope follower AND a comparator. The comparator sends a gate when the input level exceeds a certain threshold, and the envelope follower does pretty much what it sounds like: it extracts level information from the inputted signal and then converts the amplitude variations as a control voltage...which, if you run the audio signal through a VCF and then use the envelope follower to control the VCF's cutoff, giving you your original sound but with this synced-up filter sweep imposed on it.

If you really dig the way that the Furrthrr sounds, then why not go for the original? You could get THREE of Buchla/Tiptop's 258t complex oscillators for a fraction of the Furrthrr and still have money left for a very good bottle of whisky to sip on whilst pondering the spectral mayhem. And if you just go with two and then find another 6 hp nearby...maybe tossing the Super Sawtor (it IS discontinued, after all) to get that...those two 258ts will slip right into place.

Actually, just use inline mult widgets. This build is right on the edge where I would say to not have the mults in a build at all due to space constraints.

Most of the time, a sequential switch is what you'd use to switch between sequencer rows (such as the Moog 960 and the 962) by sending end-of-row signals to the switch so that the next row is, say, row 2 or 3, then back around to row 1, etc.

However, they DON'T have to be used for only sequencing. The ARP 2500's Mixsequencer is an electronic switch-type device that can scan across several incoming audio signals and change the inputted signal each time your clock sends a pulse to the Mixsequencer. But you can do the same thing with most any present-day switch; feed four audio signals into the switch's inputs, set up your clocking for it, and then send the output to whatever audio destination you like. Same thing works with control signals, too.

In the test gear world, these devices are referred to as "multiplexers"...several signals go in, clock steps through the inputs, and the result is a single output consisting of whichever channel is selected by the multiplexer. Same idea applies here, also. One that could be fun is to send differently-divided clock signals that can then cause a sequencer to jump around in time with the switch's selected input. LOADS of that good ol' "abuse potential" there...

Filter? Well, if you're in a situation where the build's only got room for one, this is probably the one you're looking for: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/tiptop-audio-forbidden-planet .

It's a clone of the Steiner-Parker Synthacon's multimode filter. And take it from someone who had a Synthacon for a number of years: if you can only have ONE VCF in your system, this is one to have. Bass ranges pound via the LP input, and the bandpass and HP inputs are capable of yowling leads that will cut through most anything. And it's cheap, too...$120. Fits right in that 8 hp hole.

Thanks for your post. I do have a nice set of monitors (DMAX SuperCubes) but this is besides the point of this thread. I'm looking to build an instrument, not to further expand my studio.
-- Arrandan

Well, check my latest post above. I get the what and why of what's needed here, I'm simply offering options so that it's more apparent that there's solutions OUTSIDE of the DAW environment, as well as VST solutions within it.

I am very open for inputs and comments. I was thinking as well what do you think of the endorphins furthrrrr generator? Is it maybe better to get rid of it and get some smaller VCOs because of the space limit here.

-- Melivora

The size is a definite drawback. As is the price. If you want to stay with the West Coast oscillator architecture, it seems far more sensible to go with the source of this idea: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/tiptop-audio-buchla-258t Same idea, but $578 cheaper and 12 hp smaller. Two of those would fit into 36 hp, which is the Furrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrthhh's width plus 6 more hp.

The other stumbling block here is the Queen of Pentacles. For one thing, it eats up yet another 30 hp. Secondly, it's got that same cost issue; if the 909 sound is what you need, just go and buy one of Uli's RD-9s and save $320, then lock it up to the synth's clock (or come up with your own clock distro solution). Plus, kicking THAT one out altogether will open up plenty of space to fix the "voice vs utes" issue here. You can also then go with a smaller sequencer that only handles CV/gate, instead of the extra drum channels here. Or, why not go with a Beatstep Pro or Keystep Pro? The former gives you two CV/gate channels and a pile of drum sequencing "lanes", while the latter adds a keyboard to that, more or less, and neither take any cab space that could be used for something NOT available as an outboard device.

It would be neat to list which expanders are available for the current modules when editing a rack/viewing a module.
-- bofh

+1 on that. Granted, the expander info is in the module descriptions in a lot of these cases, but having an in-page link to the expander from its "parent" module would actually be pretty helpful. For one thing, it would clarify that there IS an expander in the first place, but I think it would also help with giving builders a clearer set of options about those expanders. The only drawback is that it would involve a lot of scrambling around in the database and setting up links, but this may well be worth the effort.

can;t both of these be handled in a DAW? and the phasing issues be handled (at least to a large extent) by checking the mix in mono? which especially for bass heavy dance music is a pretty important step - as most clubs sound systems are effectively mono...

-- JimHowell1970

They sure can...and if someone's more accustomed to the various display options that you can have in a DAW, then that's probably what they need to use. Me, I like the various displays right up in front, so what I use these days is a TC Clarity-M Stereo that gives me a phasescope, RTA, and a couple more tricks without robbing DAW processor cycles. It's definitely related to why I have a bunch of outboard processors along with the various plugins, as I can do a lot of that sound processing in outboard and then minimize the VST load in the machine.

The only reason you'd need an oscilloscope in a typical studio...and it's a BIG one...is to check stereo phasing on your mixdowns. This becomes VERY critical if you're doing dance stuff, bass-heavy tracks, as you don't want panning and especially not out of phase signals in the frequency range below 120 Hz if the track in question is destined for vinyl.

Now, the other sort of display I'd recommend isn't a scope...but an RTA. Real-time Analyzers let you see the levels across the entire sound spectrum, and they can come in handy when trying to chase down hard-to-kill frequency "lumps" that're jumping out of the mix. And if you don't have a reliable set of monitors (and why wouldn't you? your monitor chain is probably THE MOST CRITICAL DEVICE in the studio), you can use the RTA to try and fix the discrepancies in the mix that your monitors are causing. But as far as that's concerned, I reiterate...they're the most critical part, and THEY should be fixed if you know you've got issues, tbh.

Take the Neutron out. Here's why...

We'll assume that the case is actually a Doepfer A-100 P9, which "streets" at $675. The case has a total of 252 hp available. And the Neutron goes for $329.

675/252 = 2.68 This is the cost per HP of the cab.

80 x 2.68 = 214.40 This is the EXTRA cost to house the Neutron in the Doepfer cab.

As such, this then makes the Neutron cost $543.40 while, at the same time, you've got a synth that should already have a case taking up 80 hp in a case that should be for modules that don't have that case of their own. And you need that space, mainly because there's a lot of small modules here that would be more usable if you went with larger versions. Case in point: the uGrids. Now, yes, the original's discontinued, so the only option there if you have to have one, it'll either be a clone (like here) or a used Mutable one. But given that the original is 16 hp and the clone here is half that, you'll almost certainly run into ergonomics issues which wouldn't be so limiting had you had access to Mutable's original. But then, if you go bigger with the modules, you then run into that Neutron again...which basically prevents expanding into more player-friendly modules by taking up all but the last 4 hp in an entire row.

Nope, you're not doing something wrong. Fact is, pitch tracking has been a sticky point about synth + acoustic instrument setups since one of them played a big part in blowing up ARP in the late 1970s (ie: the Avatar). And the problem is that whenever you attempt to use this, you either have to have a no-foolin' monophonic instrument, or you're going to get glitches of varying sorts. With guitar, you have to cut the flash WAAAAAAY back...hit a second note with the first one sounding, have excess resonance from the other strings, and so on, and you've got glitches galore. The ONLY fix that ever came along that worked are Roland's hex pickup-based synths, since each string gets its own pickup and there also appears to be some circuit-fu that keeps the glitchy issues under control.

HOWEVER...there are reasons to want to use those glitches, and that starts with one Mr. Richard D. James, aka Aphex Twin. He started using the Korg MS-20's "input" section, which contains a pitch tracker, bandpass filter, envelope follower, etc for processing things it literally CANNOT process...like a TR-606. With some twiddling about, the end-result comes out to those squealy, clattery electronic patterns that characterize his early work...and it all comes down to "creative misuse", something I like to call "abuse potential" when it pops up. The MS-20's abuse potential is pretty much off the charts. So if you're getting glitches with the Sonicsmith converter, well...can you use the glitches musically? You might be about to stumble across a whole new sound...

Makes me wonder if MG shouldn't have a warning label: "Modulargrid Can Be Hazardous To Your Wallet"!

I quote from moog "the eurorack market's just not big enough" (a few years back iirc)
-- JimHowell1970

Reminds me of the derp from IBM back in the late 1950s that said that, in total, the world will really only need five or six computers. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmno.

nb - the manhattan analogue cp3 is now called the DTM - moog's lawyers wrote them a cease and desist...

-- JimHowell1970

Might be nice if one could actually get a Moog-branded CP3...or anything else modular that's not a take-it-or-leave-it prebuild-only reissue.

Pretty...uh, well, I would say it's kickin' but you can hardly say that about a drone, right?

Man...I wish this build had an external pedal I/O on it. You could take this even further without a buttload of $$$ by snagging a bunch of the stranger/more interesting Chinese stompboxes. Normally, you would just use a pedal I/O...but it might also be interesting to feed the whole thing into an array of 'em. To that, you might want to see THIS: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TriParMix--electro-harmonix-tri-parallel-mixer I've had one for a while now, and it's awesome...three parallel I/Os, controls for send and return levels, phase flip, and a "tilt"-type tone control. Takes a hot minute to wrap your head around it, but once you're there, damn...and with a bucketful of Chinese stompers, it's downright jaw-dropping.

You do realize that MG is user-sourced...or at least, most of it? As long as you don't see the green "MANUFACTURER APPROVED" stamp (which locks the listing with that to the manufacturer only), you can add the optional panels yourself.

Shouldn't that be 3 (three) x 1:4 Buffered Multiples with bi-color leds?
-- zdobbins

Nope. The Palette "bar" is more than that. It has your external DC input, power switch, the three buffered mults, two adders, four 1/4" I/O jacks, and MIDI I/O for 3.5mm TRS or USB. Pretty smart design, as those modules are useful but they tend to rob space in 3U rows. This way, they literally use NO module hp at all.

Don't forget, there's also the Temps Utile. Frankly, the more I look at that thing, the more I think it might actually be a bit above the O&_c in terms of usability.

The outputs don't go to the next input, rather they are mixed with the next output if unpatched.
-- adaris

Yuppers...it's called a "breakable mixbus". For example, you can input signals and have the module do the mixing, or you could break out two on each side to have dual 2-1 mixers for stereo. And so on...

Also, what exactly are these VCAs destined to do? There's two types, linear and exponential, and they're VERY different. Linear VCAs are for modulation, etc as they deal with control voltages in a linear fashion. But exponential VCAs are for audio, since these behave in a similar exponential manner with how we perceive loudness...like the Decibel scale, each time you go up by 1V, your level changes x10. Plus, there's DC-coupled and AC-coupled. If you're aiming to control the amplitude of signals below the range of human hearing and down to DC, you have to have DC coupling. But having DC-coupled VCAs in the AUDIO path can be potentially problematic...as in, if some DC offset goes thru the outputs of the synth, into your amp, and into the monitors. At that point, your monitors are 100% DONE if that offset level's hot enough. AC-coupled VCAs, however, won't do this as they have a frequency limitation. Hitting an exponential VCA with a DC offset in the audio signal should result in...well, nothing as far as that offset's concerned.

VCAs without attenuators have always seemed odd to me, as I always want to attenuate the CV signal. I do understand it's nice when space is limited. How do you typically use them? Do you generally attenuate before with a different module (like with the 321 and Maths, in this particular rack), or just use the full raw CV in some cases (which always feel too crazy for me)?
-- Chace

The raw CV. However, that build version relies on the Doepfer stereo mixer downstream, and the quad VCA module gives you more or less equal amplitudes inputted to the mixer, and at that point you can adjust the audio levels instead of futzing with the CV levels. It's a better gain structure, in the end, and a lot easier to use. So all you do is to feed those with envelopes, etc...the usual VCA modulation suspects...and work with the outputs. No need to attenuate the modulation CVs!

Well, you could build up an entire system out of "primitives", ie: the very basic, mostly single-function modules. This would be as opposed to the "everything in xx hp" approach of the combined type modules. But doing so in Eurorack = Eurorack prices.

My main modular, though, is pretty much ALL "primitives"...an AE system, 180 spaces. And how much does it cost once it's fully-populated? Hmmm...maybe $6k...$7k if you really push it and include the Tektronix lab-grade linear DC supply I use with it. But the neat part is that it then becomes easy to build simulacra of typical complex modules. For example, this has either six complex VCOs when you use the colocated VCAs and mixer (it's sort of like a four oscillator variation on the usual two oscillator architecture) ...or you can just treat those configurations like 24 VCOs, 12 VCAs, and six mixers in other patches. And if you're into prototyping, they even have their "BrAEdboard" module, which puts a proto board right into the modular itself.

The main drawback is that, like Lunetta circuits, etc, these things only work with a 0 - +5V range. But while it might seem like that's a serious problem when it comes to external device interfacing, all you need is one of Soundmachines' Nanobridge boards and you've got incoming CVs and gates/triggers constrained to the proper voltage range. And audio can enter the system via an AE four-channel dedicated I/O module. Plus, you have to work with pinwires instead of the usual sorts of cables...but tbh, this has to have been one of the least-regretted things I've put money into. And while I know Eurorack pretty well and I've got some Eurorack gear here, when I need to do some seriously deep patching, I fire up that Monster From Murnau.

Definitely not "the one". However...

Now THAT'S "the one". What's going on here is that I first changed the order from right->left to left->right...makes it easier for me to build, and you can flip this back to the R->L one.

Then, after the uZeus, there's now an actual modulation section. Four freerun LFOs, four loopable AR envelope gens. The huge Doepfer quad VCO got turned into a Studio Electronics Quadnic. Then Veils serves as your modulation amplitude control and mixing (yeah, I even had room for VCAs here, too!), your Wasp is next, then the FSU. And for output AND your headphone preamp, a Befaco OUT v.3 which also has stereo balanced TRS outs, and a patchable cue send.

The big takeaway here is that while these little skiffs are really a total PITA to build, it CAN be done...but you have to be careful about module sizes in order to be able to fit all of the functionality you want. Well...provided it's not something that requires buttloads of modules, that is. By tossing the Doepfer Quad VCO and Maths (which took up 38 hp between them...in a 60 hp skiff) and being careful about module selection with regard to both function AND ergonomics, this opened the build up sufficiently for all of the new toys.

And the bonus? It only costs $22 more than your original build! Not too shabby...

Overall, I think I need to take a breath and ask what I really want out of all this. As it stands, I want a place to make intricate backdrops for louder stories to be layered on top. what I’m getting at is that I may be asking too little for a world of options and criteria that demands as much as it does from the player.
-- brownbureau

Well, we have a fix for that, too. And it's called VCV Rack. Basically, VCV is a Eurorack emulator...and it's even accurate to the point of having the same "tons-o-fun" module complement (somewhere upwards of 2000 of 'em) that we're used to here. I and most everyone else here recommends this to those who've not had much/any modular experience, as this software behaves very much like (and in the case of VCV modules from manufacturers on MG, extremely much like) the hardware devices.

https://vcvrack.com/ And the price is right, too...FREE! True, the versions with VST integration and the like cost money, but the basic VCV Rack costs zip. Spend some quality time with this, then when you come back to hardware modular, you'll be on a much better informational footing.

One other thing worth taking a look through: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_series_(music) This contains several super-useful tables that show not only the pitches that happen via the harmonic series, but the retunings necessary to translate the pitches into actual harmonic values. And that math is important to drone works, as you'll want the harmonic tunings instead of the equal tempered ones since the harmonic tunings play off of the series that starts with your drone's "root". Bit of a PITA in hardware, to be sure...but back in the day when I was still singing in choral ensembles, when we had music from the proper period, we would instinctively retune everything note-per-note. And it worked...mainly because equal temperament is a "recent" invention, and when singing something prior to, say, 1700, we'd always tune for that harmonic "blend". With the voice, this is pretty simple (and a bit instinctual, too), but if you want to do this on hardware instruments, you've got to know the retunings and/or ratios.

Please note the digital dickery done to the URL above by the syntax. "series" should be followed by underlines, which MG's forum thinks are "italic" indicators. Silly server, no Pocky.

EDITED Feb 15th 2022, 04:22

Made a change or three here, but the most drastic thing it needed was to clarify the signal flow.

The biggest changes were down at the right end of the upper row. I tossed the VC Mixer, then this opened up some more space, along with relocating the 333 (and turning it into a 321, since it's now a modulation nexus), and then a little graveyard dust and black cat bones, and now your audio row ends with a panning stereo mixer WITH a quad exponental VCA before it for CV level control. But also, some of the debris down on the bottom got pitched, most notably the RCD as I swapped it for a Noise Engineering Fractio Solum. That now gives you CV over clock division and multiplication. And the triple S&H went bye-bye; what you seem to have been shooting for there was probably better served with an Intellijel Steppy, but I couldn't find the 6 hp it needs. Oh, and the PWRchekr, since you've got a convenient 1 hp hole, and it's good to know the condition of your DC rails.

First up, a mult in this small of a build is pointless. In the event you need to split off a signal, just use inline mults. You might only need one or two with this.

But the problem here is that if you're aiming for "ambient noodling with samples thrown in", this build is sort of not exactly "synth-like". True, it has AN oscillator and A resonator, but there's virtually none of the modules that you'd use for modulation, no VCAs, no...well, just no, really.

Definitely follow Jim's case advice above. Even at 1 x 84, you get into cramped spaces if the build needs to do something complicated. Think Mantis, Palette 104, etc; 60 hp might fit a Moog device, but that's MOOG and what they can do with a prepatched, prebuilt system. Once you step into modules, you need space for both flexibility while setting up a build AND ergonomics so that you've got real knobs and sliders and such. These clones here aren't as bad about that as some I've seen, but they're still going to be an impediment unless you've got fingers the size of chopsticks.

My bet is that it's in the mid-40s, actually...the BF-22 (the follow-up...the BF-20 is actually discontinued) fits in 47 hp in kit form.

Now to my question: 'Can I patch this modular grid sketch up. or Will feeding back Audio Rate Modulation to the same Oscillator from where It came hurt something?
-- zuggamasta

Nah. Might be a tad difficult to control, but you won't blow up anything with that trick. Fact is, lots of synthesists use feedback paths to beef up a sound. Probably the best-known example of this is (ab)using the Minimoog's headphone out and external audio in to set up feedback to add some "oomph". As long as you're not patching outputs to other outputs, you're golden.

Wheee...OK, I went over Jim's remarks as well as some of my own ideas, and arrived at:

This is fairly similar in places to the original build, but by being more economical with panel space while not losing much in the way of original functionality, I've managed to cram MORE in without making the build an unusable mess by not using teensy-weensy controls.

TOP: Ladik Dual Precision Slew is first, which allows you to use portamento on your VCOs, with portamento on up, down, or both selectable separately. Black Wavetable's next, then a real Plaits, and then an Erica PICO ring modulator with an internal carrier oscillator. After this, the Wave went back in, as it fits in SO nicely as a summer/wavefolder that can either go post-VCO or post-VCAs. Then a Veils for amplitude control over your audio sources. I kept the Forbidden Planet because...well, Nyle's VCF there is a killer lead filter. And after that is something VERY weird and dronable...a Limaflo Motomouth morphing vocal formant filter. That allows you to impose different formant structures onto an incoming signal, with a result that can go from choir-like to downright weird depending on how you approach it. Dual XFade then allows you to crossfade between any of that, and then it feeds Beads and/or an Erica Dual FX. The last module there is an omsonic "Panning Expander", which is really a fixed-level mixer (six in, two out) for signal panning and finishes up the "stereoization" at the right end of the audio path.

BOTTOM: Konstant Labs PWRchekr, natch. If you've got 1 stray hp, that should be the immediate choice unless your cab has DC rail indicators already. Then I dropped in a noise/random source with S&H and T&H capabilities, followed by the Tool Box. Sloths is next, then a CVable clock divider/multiplier from Noise Engineering. So, with this being the logical place for the sequencer, there's the Bloom. Following this, we get into the main modulation devices: Batumi/Poti and Maths, then a Doepfer dual VCA followed by Frap's 321; this little VCA/CV mixer section is for manipulating/altering your modulation signals to create more complex modulation schema coming out of the bottom row. On the other side of this is a Quadrax/Qx combo. Then conveniently located below the omsonic panning mixer, you'll find a Happy Nerding Isolator, which not only functions as a stereo 1/4" audio out, it uses transformer isolation...so you can hit it a little hotter, and the transformers will warm things up a tad due to saturation.

So, this probably eliminates some of your existing modules that you'd mentioned...but it IS a more controllable build that actually has more capability than the original.

Mmmmmmnah. Not when I can go to Walmart and snag several bags of nylon cable ties for the same price. Or Menard's, Lowe's etc etc...

...which is the point. Some things DO need a specialized solution, but I set down a rule for myself decades ago that says that if you can source as much as possible of your implements LOCALLY, this strategy works far better, cheaper, and without the hassle of playing "package vigil" to keep your stuff from getting porch-pirated. But even moreso...if you're doing a live gig, and something like a cable, etc fails, you know that the nearest (and ubiquitous) bigbox store has what you need. And that can be a lifesaver!

Had a look. WAY too many sound sources, and WAY too little in the way of "helper modules". The workflow also seems to be quite jacked-up; I can't exactly see how this would be patched in a way that would make sense.

Figure out what SENSIBLE amount of sources that you need, back down the superfluous stuff, and add the various modulation and utility sources this needs. I mean...dude, this thing's only got four VCAs, and while that's fine for summing a couple of VCOs, how do you expect to control the modulation amplitudes, etc? And how are you going to send those VCAs any envelope signals with just one Peaks for the WHOLE RIG?

I'd strongly suggest that you jettison this build, really. There's too much that doesn't work here, so you shouldn't use it as a restarting point. Then begin again, but this time take time to study experienced builders' and synthesists' builds to see how THEY do this, where you'll probably find a ratio along about 1 part audio sources/modifiers and 3 parts modulation, control etc. And if you don't have VCV Rack installed on your machine, install it. VCV is a VERY comprehensive and FREE Eurorack simulator (and then some!), so you can set up similar builds on it and then troubleshoot how they might or might not work in hardware. And TAKE TIME doing this; really good MG builds can sometimes take weeks or more...because it's important to avoid screwing up in ways that can "doom" the build's usability.

https://vcvrack.com/

I'm in agreement with Jim on this; if you want this amount of THESE modules, you're probably looking at at least one more row (and preferably two) in order to get the right complement of modules in here, provided the present modules stay the same.

One way to avoid some of this, however, would be to either move the Black Sequencer to an external powered "pod", or to just find a very small sequencer. One suggestion might be this:

This is built into a 4ms Pod 48X, and has the Black Sequencer paired with one of Erica's Pico Quants and a buffered mult so that you can keep CVs stable even if you're using this on some other synth along with the modular. That gets you 42 hp back in the main cab. But you can chuck out even more...one of the Marbles, the 2hp mixers, many of the Mutable clones (you're apt to discover that those teensy knobs aren't a lot of fun to work with), and some existing modules can be "smushed" into different and more efficient configs. F'rinstance: your pair of MCOs. These retail for $175 apiece, more or less, and they take up 6 hp. All well and good...but you can also drop a single Plaits where those are and get a more powerful device in the same space. You can then drop the Plaits clone and open up 8 hp more. Oh, and it costs $259 as opposed to the $350 for the less-capable MCOs. This sort of thing.

I'm sure there are other "condensing points" in there as well. But one thing I'd jump on immediately with this design is how to do it smaller yet still make it ergonomically sensible.

Another suggestion, more limited, would be Frequency Central's Stasis Leak. Reverb, chorus, tap delay in 6 hp. However, the Stasis Leak is set up with a mono-in/stereo-out architecture, so it can also do double duty as a stereoizing module.

IMy main issue isn't dust etc. unfortunately. I live on the California coast and salt air corrosion is a problem with electronic connections and tool corrosion, I use a lot of contact cleaner, so this might be perfect.

-- Ravenware

An idea taken from mil-spec electronics: cover the trace sides of the modules with some nonconductive substance, such as clear polyethylene hardwood floor coating or clear nail polish, to keep salt air corrosion off of them. Another idea, also...tape a pouch of silica gel inside the cab itself, and bake that out for, say, an hour at 150F after doing a gig in a damp venue. I know of a few techno guys who swear by that to keep humidity down inside their modular gear. Then all you'll need to DeOxit would be the controls and jacks, as the other measures deal with the basic humidity/salt issues.

Banged on this for a hot minute...

Now, this uses an Intellijel Palette 104...very portable (they've got Palette gig bags) in which I was able to put some basic but important devices. Sorry, Jim...no extra VCFs, but there's plenty of the other stuff...

The top 1/2 row is Intellijel's utility buss, which not only has your power, but three buffered mults, a dual adder, four 1/4" jacks, and a MIDI I/O that we're not using in this exact build, but it could be helpful later on.

Tile row starts with a Temps Utile, which does some of what Pam's does but which also offers internal sequencing. This one's also outfitted with four attenuvertable CV ins. The QuadrATT serves as your mixer/attenuator/polarizer for CVs. Then there's a pair of FX send/return modules which can use the 1/4" I/O jacks for their send and return lines. And lastly, a Dual VCA lets you control two channels of amplitude (such as the FX loop outs) via modulation sources.

The 3U row works like this: I swapped in a Buchla SOU, then there's a little Erica quantizer for the T_u's sequencer channel or to create tesselations from the Maths by clocking the quantizer and changing CV outs per clock step. Next, Maths, and then there's a Veils that gives you four VCAs with variable response curves, which lets you use these for either CV or audio as needed. The Zadar/Nin combo gives you four envelopes, then your Moddemix and Morphagene. And last is a stereo audio mixer that can be used to sum the previous two to stereo...or anything else audio-wise that needs to go through there for audio summing.

It's still a small, portable build...but much more capable with the extra space and tile row.

EDITED Feb 11th 2022, 04:32

This is totally about how to create financial freedom
-- nick389

-- JimHowell1970

The poster clearly has no knowledge of Eurorack. "Financial freedom" my ass!

Jim's spot-on here, really. 1 x 84 hp is just too tight, for one thing. Plus, a Mantis is pretty cheap...not as cheap as the 2 x 140 Ulicase, mind you, but $335 for 2 x 104, powered is a pretty stonkin' deal. And Tiptop even thought ahead for live users, as they've got their own gigbag customized for the Mantis. You also regain the 4 hp used by the uZeus, too.

Using a bigger cab can also help with sufficient space for some large modules, such as Maths. You won't have to be as concerned with what space those 20+ hp-ers are burning.

have you come across Brian Eno's Oblique Strategies? a really useful tool for getting past blocks in any field - originally a set of cards, but also available freely online

-- JimHowell1970

+1 on the Strategies. Eno and Schmidt really came up with a classic "mind-jogger" for musical purposes with that, and it doesn't surprise me that we now have Internet versions: https://obliquestrategies.app/020003/ I use a local version of them to keep from pulling up something huge like Firefox when I'm already running Ableton. You can find them on the Apple Store and on Google Play as well.

One other mindjogger that comes to mind is the score for Stockhausen's "Aus den Sieben Tagen". All of this consists of texts which contain instructions to the performer(s), and the concepts that Cholly plays with here are very similar in character AND result to the Strategies. In a sense, they're a sort of instructions for koans specifically for musicians. If you're into envelope-pushing, this is like using a NOS-powered bulldozer to do some REAL sound-shoving!

Oh, I can see some of why Tiptop's Buchla prices are so cheap: for example, none of these have Don's "E-bus" behind the panel. Also, take into account that passive (and some active) components used here are cheaper than they'd been in the 1970s when the original 200 came out. And it wouldn't surprise me if Tiptop had their own board fab, given that they can reliably supply BIG concerns, such as Sweetwater. And the really cool part: no separate control and audio paths...everything conforms to Eurorack's patching standards, which definitely simplifies the design of these while their primary circuits STILL have that tasty Buchla flavor.

You'll get dust in that 1hp gap or worse something conductive, trust me. I would recommend getting or 3d printing a 1hp blank.
-- aramaki23

Or, more sensibly, drop in one of Konstant Labs' PWRchekrs so you can easily keep an eye on your DC rails' health. The most sensible 1 hp module ever!

It'll be somewhere spacy, that's for damn sure!

I know for a fact that there's a PILE of the old-skool Detroiters that are outright salivating over the new "t" series. But then, that makes perfect sense when you realize that one of the tracks that early DJs in tha D were mixing was the rhythmic part of Part 2 from "Silver Apples of the Moon". Works like a charm!

Here's an idea...if you put in a module like the Strymon AA.1 or some other stompbox "integrator", once you're outside of the synth, there are some other possibilities for processing that aren't generally found in synth modules. The specific example I'm thinking of is E-H's TriParallel Mixer, which is crazy-versatile when you set up the attached stompers so that they ALL work like the same processor, albeit with some really trippy routing possibilities. I've used mine with some of the (in)famous Chinese stompboxes, and the results have been STELLAR. But that's one possible example; my studio itself also has its own parallelling system that uses a Studio Technologies Model 80 for distribution and buffering across eight stereo pairs, with a Rane SM 26B for summing on the "out" side of it. Instead of stompers, though, that system is for my 100+ rack processing units so that I can set up processing "cascades" with a lot less hassle than other methods.

Or, another possibility is that the OP's simply looking at the wrong synth format. What he's describing after clarification sounds a lot more like what you'd find in a Serge format system. Granted, Serge IS more expensive...but the over-the-top flexibility of the system is a part of that. And when you start breaking down the full and half-panels into per-module numbers, the cost isn't really all that horrible...you just have to get past the fiscal stumbling blocks of buying the panel sets.

EDITED Feb 9th 2022, 02:01

@FatBerg: Oh yes!

And after weeks or months when you emotionally cooled down a bit, please share with us your experiences ;-)
-- GarfieldModular

You realize, of course, that he's now very far down the Buchla Hole...we might never hear from him again!

I've found that there are LOADS of possible cheap ways to manage patchcable piles. A trip to a home improvement store like Lowe's or Menards offers TONS of potential hooks, implements, and other hanger gibberish that works like a charm. Right now, I've got about 100+ 1/4" cables on these snazzy, rustic iron closethooks from Menards, and in a previous setup of the studio, I had my 3.5mms all on those cheap swinging kitchen towel-holders. And since both of these mount easily onto the MDF racks I use, I can stick 'em wherever they work best.

At least, this worked fine until I started building the AE system, which uses pinwires (along with some Bastl devices and a Folktek Mescaline). So, since I was setting up a section of commercial gridwall with shelves for the stompbox "library", I put one of those angled clotheshangers with the little balls on them onto the backside of the gridwall, under the table that holds the "sandbox", which puts the pinwires right where I need 'em!

Uhhhhh...

No, I'll let someone else point out the obvious here...I'm tired of having to repeat the same goddamn thing over and over.

EDITED Feb 9th 2022, 01:11

Think of an oscillator with 4 simultaneous waveform outputs. Connect all four audio outputs into a VCA module that can mix like an Intellijel quad VCA. Then connect four modulation sources into the CV inputs... maybe a quad LFO like the Xaoc Batumi and set the Batumi to really slow rates. Of course you don't have to mix just one oscillator... or you could mix between effects or even mix CV sources instead of audio.
-- Ronin1973

This is what I usually call "strumming"...like running a pick across strings, but in this case it's modulation signals across multiple VCAs channeling different timbres. It's really an incredible sound, particularly if you pay close attention to the overlap between VCA levels and get a result that sounds like a smooth timbral transition. It's why I can't wait to get my mitts on one of those Buchla 281t reissues, as they have a quadrature capability that's perfect for that trick.

None of them.

First up, when building a full system, working in "blocks" like this is going to result in a system that doesn't reflect your actual signal flow. It's best to group things by function than by what can be stuck together in these blocks. For example, if you've got something in there that could benefit from having a quadrature LFO (like "strumming" a Veils), well...since you've got these blocks but they don't have a quadrature oscillator with the exception of the Batumi/Poti pair...but at that point, you're using ALL FOUR LFOs in that to do what ONE module that's not in these is capable of. And that's just one example.

Secondly...what's with all of the buffered mults? You really only need these for distributing CVs to oscillators, filters, and other modules that need a CV without voltage sag. The sag results from having too many devices on the same CV source, so you use buffers to "regenerate" the CV. But you DON'T need six of them! In a small build, in fact, using 24 hp on JUST mults is a terrible idea; small builds are better served with inline mult widgets or stackcables, and if you have more than four modules that need properly-scaled CVs, THAT would be the only reason for using only ONE of those.

A far better approach here to building on MG would be to start with a fullsize cab that's larger than you need, populate that, then start paring things BACK. But work on the whole thing at the same time, not in chunks like these. Start with a 3 x 104 cab, then once it's populated, pare this down so that you wind up with TWO rows of 104 hp. It's 100% doable, and generally results in outcomes that are more usable.

If you're coming from a background that has a lot of "semi-modular" patchables or keyboard synths, I can see how this concept emerged. Keyboard synths are, after all, built in "blocks" like that. But this ain't your dad's Joop-6 here...this is an "open environment" that, while grouping modules will be a must, blocking out everything BEFORE the full build process is on just won't work out very nicely if one of these blocks can't "play nice" with the others.

First up, Braids is long-discontinued. Plaits is the official replacement from Mutable, but you can get Braids clones, although the "miniaturized" clones are often a total PITA to program, with tiny controls and tight spacing.

Second...yep, you get it. That Neutron should be back in its own case and on its own power. The case is for things that DON'T have those.

Third: this is a fairly small build. So trying to populate this with large modules will cause you to LOSE potential, as you'll not have space for various utility and "helper" modules that need to be in there. About the only "big" thing that should be in there would be the Maths; the rest can and SHOULD be removed and smaller alternatives (WITHIN REASON! don't go so small that you can't get at the controls when you need to) found that can do the same job.

Fourth (and related to the third part above): do you HAVE TO sequence from the Hermod, or would you be better off sequencing from your DAW and using something like Expert Sleepers' "soundcard" modules to send/return both control signals AND audio? Again, the Hermod is huge, but those ES modules are not. Same probably goes for the System 100m mixer, plus you can get similar stereo output mixers with ALL parameters under CV that can fit into a slightly smaller cab. See Toppobrillo's Stereomix2 for one example.

Best rule of thumb here is that you should have about 1/3+ of your modules as part of an audio chain, and the rest of the space should be controllers, modifiers, modulators, etc etc. And getting that balance is important to drawing out the power in the audio chain. Too many "helpers", and the synth will sound rather "meh", and not enough "helpers" results in a different sort of "meh" from not having internal motion in your sounds. Trust me on that; you want to sound like Klaus or RJD or so on, and NOT a microwave beep.

Oh, HELL yes!!! If Cabaret Voltaire had turned out to be a junglist group, it might sound something like this!