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Shapeshifter Preset: 4 (Sol 2)
* Pitch 1 (V/oct) & BM (Gate) in comes from Keystep pro *
Quadrax - CVA: x Rise: RED, CVB: x Rise: PURPLE, CVC: x Rise: GREEN
Beads - All Fx Selected for fx modulation

EDITED Sep 4th, 23:24

ooh thats interesting, it would be very nice to be able to do something similar for the marketplace ...

is Magerit still active? I tried to contact them for a repair but got no answer

So I guess this is the common "Hey I'm new, looking for opinions on my rack" post. I know this is a long post and the rack is a lot to digest, but I would be most appreciative of anyone who had the time/desire to look through it.
Here's the breakdown of what I own, what I'm looking to get, and what I'm looking to do with it:

Gear I already own:
Prophet REV2 synth
Maschine mk2 and S88 keyboard (extensive NI Komplete suite)
Various guitar pedals
Various rackmount FX and utilities
Keith McMillen 12 Step2 MIDI Bass Pedal Foot Controller
TASCAM 24chan Mixer/Recording Console

Gear I'm planning to get:
All the modules shown in the 3 racks
3 Intellijel 7U 104HP cases
Boss 505 mk2 desktop looper
Beatstep Pro
OXI One MIDI/CV Sequencer
Wasp desktop synth

The obvious thing to tell someone new is to "start slow, learn and build gradually", and I do understand the merits of this and completely agree with it. However as much as I would like to be able to do it that way... I will simply (and vaguely) say that I do have some very compelling reasons not to follow this sound advice (and leave it at that).

Here is what I'm looking to accomplish with my rack:
1) Be able to have fun/entertain myself.
2) Create Ambient/generative scoundscapes as well as melodic tracks, scores, songs, and pieces. (Sometimes played live, sometimes sequenced)
3) Create tracks you can zone out to, meditate to, dance to, and even tracks you can stagedive to.
4) I want to have enough real estate that I can work on a "main patch" and still have room/modules to create something totally separate without having to unpatch something else to do it. (Partly to just experiment with layers to add into the main patch, but also to be able to "take a break" from the main patch and spend time doing some exploring or deep dives in learning and exploring the nuances of other modules before returning to the main patch I was working on.)
5) I plan to create self generative tracks as well as play the rack live. It will also be used to compliment other aspects of my music projects outside of the rack.

While I grew up on old school arcade sounds and C64 games, I'm looking to mainly create stuff that is more of "a song" rather than something that sounds like an Atari 2600 game soundtrack. So I'm assuming I need to look into filtering a bit more because I'm not really looking to make "beeps and blips" sort of tracks. Also, I'm not into techno style stuff, but it's hard to describe the vision in my head because I've never heard anyone else make music in the main style I'm looking to create. (Picture Frank Zappa, The Beach Boys, Black Flag, Vangellis, Rush, The Dead Milkmen, Kraftwork, Black Sabbath, Devo, Yes, and the Ramones all mixed into one.)

I'm new to modular, but not new to creating music. My Rev2 synth is great and I've had it for several years now, but the problem has always been that the "patching is hidden", and I tend to work MUCH better visually. If I can't see the pathways, I don't always get a clear grasp of the signal flow or what is going on, leaving me to generally not stray far from the presets. (Also there's a bit too much menu diving on it for my taste.) I will say that I do love the feel of the keybed on this piece of gear.

Being new at modular, I'm sure there's things I'm overlooking or perhaps even misunderstanding. However, for the most part, if I know what it is that I don't adequately understand, I typically try to research it and get a better grasp. (For instance, I have already read the manuals for all of the modules in the rack). But my problem is likely this: "I don't know what I don't know". (That makes it impossible to research without it being pointed out to me. So that is part of the reason for this post.)

Here's some thoughts behind what I have in mind:

For cases, I picked three Intj 7u 104hp cases each outfitted with a pair of 1U Octalinks to route each case to the others. That way I can just pull the 3 CAT cables off to be able to put the case lids on without having to unpatch everything. The 3 cases will normally be set next to each other, but one will eventually be configured as a traveling case (That's one of the reasons for some of the redundancy in module selection).

For outputs, I have 3 Intj stereo outputs to go to the mixer/recorder console. The Xchangr module also gives me a stereo FX loop (or 2 mono ones). Plus an additional stereo output for a tuner and vocoder pedal. (So in total, I would have the ability to output 6-10 channels to the recording console simultaneously)

The 1U Flips seem quite useful and I can see multiple ways I'll use them throughout most of my patches.

I will also make good use of quantizer and arpeggiators as I am looking to do mostly melodic stuff. (I am feeling like another quantizer might be a good idea, but I figured I'd wait and see, and then I'd have a better idea what I like/need after putting in some time on the rack.)

I have a strong dislike for small displays, non-full sized keyboard keys, and menu diving.

I have zero interest in VCVRack, I've stared at computer monitors since the early BBS days and now my sore eyes require time away from a screen.

I'd like to do most of the mixing onboard, but everything will be outputted to my 24 track console where any final tweaks can be made.

I plan to use a Boss 505mk2 to add vocals and for some basic sampling duties. (Though I'm not set on the best way to integrate it into the rack to get maximum functionality from it.) The Rample sampler would be used for traditional drum samples, the Queen of Pent for 909 style, and the 2hp Play for vocal oneshots, callouts, and FX.

As for MIDI, since I plan on being able to split the rack to have part of it be a traveling rig, I went with multiple MIDI modules (and to take advantage of the built-in jacks in the cases). I've never been a huge fan of MIDI and always thought it felt "a little clumsy". While I have had "use for" it over the years, I simply never had a "definitive need" for it, so I have mostly avoided using it in the past. However today is a different story... the MIDI devices I would using with the rack are:

Beatstep Pro
OXI One MIDI/CV Sequencer
Wasp desktop synth
Boss 505 mk2 desktop looper
K.M. 12 Step2 MIDI Bass Pedal

I also will possibly be getting a basic MIDI keyboard as well. Would a 5th or 6th MIDI device mean I would need another MIDI module? Or only if I was trying to use them all at the same time? I'm wanting to hook everything up at once and not have to constantly unplug stuff when I want to use something. I'm not sure that the modules I have selected are adequate for what I'm looking to connect MIDI-wise. Any advice in this area would be helpful.

Once I get a better grasp of everything and get enough playtime under my belt, I will be looking into heading into a quadraphonic direction (and eventually possibly into octaphonic territory) I already have seen a few modules that would compliment that aspect, though I'm not worried about addressing any of that at this point in time as that's far down the road at this point, but figured it was worth mentioning.

The racks are not currently laid out exactly how I would position all of the modules (obviously that is a constant changing work in progress for most people). I'll need to get a better idea of what I use the most and which modules work well or compliment each other before I have a better idea of the flow and layout I want. Though I'll likely end up positioning modules more for accessibility reasons more so than a left to right signal flow layout. I did intentionally leave some spaces between many modules for ease of finger access (until at some point new acquisitions gobble that space up).

So is there anything obvious (or not so obvious) that I have overlooked? Utility modules? Basic functionality modules? Ease of use stuff? Something missing? Something that's exceedingly overkill? Any (helpful) thoughts, opinions, suggestions, questions, or comments would be welcome.

EDITED Sep 5th, 15:41

Look into the Instruo Carn (or two since you need more than 4 channels). Won't do 'everything' but having 2 myself... its a wonderful setup.

The SSF Vortices isn't bad, CV and manual Panning of mono signals.
I also have a DPW M1 mixer which lets me pan my Stereo sources.

A word in favor of the PM Okapi -- I have a stereo setup, with two stereo Okapis run through an Erica Synths Black Stereo mixer.

That gives me 8 inputs (4 per Okapi) so that each one's 4 inputs go into a left and right channel, taking up two of the four stereo pairs on the ES mixer (between them is a Xer Dualis for another 8 input stereo pair in the ES mixer, and a 2hp VCA gives me the final stereo pair). So basically I can have 18 inputs into the ES mixer, nine inputs per left or right channel (!).

What really rocks about the Okapi, however, are the light indicators! Just glance down and if you see red, turn that input down a bit (and vice-versa). It is very helpful to have visuals in mixing! Something to think about long-term if you want to expand to stereo. This is sort of hard to explain, so here's the setup (a 6U Doepfer L-base and a separate 6U standing on it).

EDITED Sep 4th, 03:04

Juno maybe? https://www.juno.co.uk/products/nazca-noodles-blue-300cm-premium-3-5mm-ts/872298-01/?currency=GBP&flt=1&cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=1838759436&cq_con=72327549089&cq_term=&cq_med=pla&cq_plac=&cq_net=g&cq_pos=&cq_plt=gp&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw59q2BhBOEiwAKc0ijdooeDrGPPt_ERDZAuI0IRLeQSSRS4fdWBcM6RspnVXYheixyIhUExoC9IcQAvD_BwE
Or pick a smaller more indie Synth shop

Ann Southam’s minimalist piano pieces contain lots of ideas that could be applied to a modular system. This video is also a tribute to a composer who should be a household name like Steve Reich, Philip Glass, and Terry Riley.
Detailed patch notes included:

Hi, can anyone share where they buy patch leads, as in, the best value supplier?

I will definitely need some quite long ones, 2.5M or 3M because of the way I lay out my various machines.

I've bought a few from Amazon but the long ones there seem pricey.

I'm based in UK

Thanks for any help
T

i think that a mixer with the features that you are describing in 10hp simply does not exist.

Cosmotronic has some feature packed mixeres in reasonable hp

i'm really not willing to induce any gas. but i would not try to fit more voices and add a mixer in your case. you certainly don't want to remove utilities to add voices.
maybe it's time to think of expanding the hps ?
or maybe get a 1010 bluebox desktop ?

VoltRatio

The VoltRatio 1V/OCT CV input allows you to quickly and easily switch through exactly 6 harmonic degrees. Additionally, this module enables you to obtain both a copy of the fundamental frequency's voltage and a frequency one octave below simultaneously, allowing you to comfortably control up to 3 oscillators at once. Furthermore, designed as a precision multiple, this module offers precise and professional calibration options, helping your system stay in accurate tuning and advancing both you and your system.

The frequency ratio system, which can also be found in the first digital examples of Thru Zero Frequency Modulation and allows easy adjustment of harmonic degrees in all operator oscillators according to the fundamental frequency, is crucial for maintaining musical and tonal compatibility. This system greatly simplifies programming in complex FM patches. With the three separate outputs designed as Vaemi, which replicate the 1V/OCT CV input like a precision multiple and provide different degrees, you can use all analog thru zero or standard voltage-controlled oscillators. Quickly navigating between harmonic degrees during recording or live performances will provide significant musical and practical advantages. The output providing harmonic degrees (Ratios) includes 2 buffered outputs, making a total of 4 CV outputs on the module.

You can adjust the desired voltage and harmonic degrees between 0-6V according to your preferences and needs using the trimpots on the back of the module. Additionally, you can set the -1 OCT output to the desired negative level using the trimpots on the back.

All inputs and outputs of the module are DC coupled. Essentially, the module adds or subtracts an offset voltage to the voltage entered into the 1V/OCT CV input. We can think of it as a precision CV adder-subtractor. The sum of the entered and added voltages is what comes out of the outputs. In short, you can also use this module to shift the offset, process signals like envelopes or LFOs, and more. (Note about the module: one of the most important points is that it has both positive and negative outputs and precise calibrations for offset and CV scale. So, it’s not just about adding offset voltage to the voltage.)

You can read which channel you are on from the top of the module or easily determine it with the help of LEDs. The module is 10HP wide.

Website:
https://en.vaemi.net/product-page/voltratio-precision-voltage-adder-subtractor-harmonic-cv-controller-eurorack

Etsy:
https://vaemisynth.etsy.com/listing/1787486561

Reverb.com:
https://reverb.com/item/84455925

ModularGrid:
https://modulargrid.net/e/vaemi-voltratio

wow- incredible website!

just what I needed, thank you!

Is there an API that will allow me to return my owned module collection as a list of JSON objects
-- out_of_band

This should work but can change anytime.

https://modulargrid.net/e/modules/find.json?SearchSet=my

5 Oscillators: Pittsburgh Modular Generation X, Waldorf NW1, TipTop Z3000, Bastl Grandpa + Spa, Antumbra Knit running through 7 clocking modules, a sequencer, 2 chaos machines, 8 LFOs, 4 VCAs, 4 EGs, 3 filters, a BBD delay, Sub Rings, and a bit crusher. Mixer can handle 10 audio feeds.

Metropolix & Rene v1 sequencing Rubicon & DPO with Maths, 4 VCAs, 4 LFOs, 3 MS-20 filters, Dirt filter, Phaser, Delay, Expanded Clouds,and a reverb for good measure.

Brains & Odessa Harmonic Oscillators controlled by Euclidian Circles & Moskwa sequencers, offset by a Source of Uncertainty & Miso. Polyvoks and Belgrad filters, with reverb, phaser, Phonogene sampling delay and Bad Comrade glitches 7 VCAs, 9 LFOs, 3 EGs. Odessa Expander provides 5 harmonic outputs while .COM adds additional Sub-Octaves. BRST + 2CK give multiple clocks to the sequencers.

I have been looking forward to play with my new Moog DFAM. I had a few short sessions to play with it before today but today during lunch it broke it out and pluged it in with the rest of my modular setup.

Video shows me playing it. Descriptions list modules used.

=f36a9bcf7b254e1eaae18c6f3f78f4c6&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

Also have:
- Mystic Circuits 0HP Blinkus
- 2x ST Modular Workmate 0hp Attenuator
- Life is Unfair Potential - Dual CV Joystick Controller
- Korg SQ-1

Another interesting module from Djupviks. A CV mixer with a chaos core to add some interesting spice to your CV signals.

Really simple build, mostly surface mount already installed, a single-session kit.

And very interesting output. Adds some chaos to mod signals, and I actually tried it with a drum module (see demo section) to get some interesting patterns.
If you’re looking to add some random creativity to your mix, give this a try.

Build

Have a great weekend all!

Hi,

I am having issues with the MIDI ports on the Poly2 and ableton.

The poly2 is connected to a midi mac via USB. Ableton sees the Poly2 and i can send MIDI message to it and play external gears via cv/gate. However, Ableton completely ignore the incoming MIDI i am sending from my keystep into the Poly2 MIDI IN (e.g. i can't record any MIDI)
Everything looks fine in Abeleton and indeed if i swap to another interface (e.g. expert sleepes ES9) keeping the same configuration, everything works fine.
I am wondering if someone had the same experience. I wrote and email to Polyend but no luck so asking here.
Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Mat

Mixer? A start of an answer here: https://doudoroff.com/mixers/

Hi! This is our very first time performing live together with our modulars. We were guests at Modular on the Spot, playing outside on top of Fort Maarsseveen in the middle of the Netherlands. The weather was perfect so we were very lucky.

We have so much fun making music together and have rehearsed multiple times to prepare for this performance. We're excited to perform together even more in the future, so feel free to spread the word 🙂

For now, enjoy the ride, and we’re very curious to hear what you think of this video and our music!

for some context: here's a jam from this set-up. I wasn't using the beatstep pro in this case.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p91NkL6YpydLEc7GVf79kLT8dsg_ig-T/view?usp=sharing

Hello - thanks for taking a look at my current rack. Im still new to modular (this year) and enjoying it so much.
My rack also has a beatstep pro and a mother-32 on the side with a EH cathedral reverb

Looking for suggestions for a mixer/vca module that can be a final mixer... my needs are not set in stone but here are my 'ideal' features:
* six channels or more
* cv control / vca functionality
* stereo panning from mono input
* something close to 8HP?? 10HP???
* BONUS - sequential sequncer ability?

Sound design goals:
Percusive-focused minimal Drum and bass to complement my Moog mother-32 (with a digi reverb on the side) doing lead melodies. I may remove the blm 'rings' clone and replace with another VCO that can do folding. I really just like a sidechained bassline breathing along with the maths+drums and mother32 sounds on top. I see myself bringing in one more smaller HP drum module for a snare/clap/samples.

Right now im working in mono but would like to go stereo at the final mix. I see the utility and sense of a desktop mixer but I would like to make this rack an all-in-one-rackbrute that can leave home easily.

I am willing to make room by removing my Manhattan Analog mix, one of the Happy Nerding MIA, and the BLM Resonator.
However, I'd also like to add a wave-folding VCO and a small clap/snare/sample module. I LOVE my Malekko quad VCA (small and feature-rich) but I think a mixer would better serve me.

Ive been looking at modules like:
* AniModule M1xXOR
* ALM Jumble Henge
* Pittsburgh Modular Stereo Okapi
* Hikari Atten/Mixer
* Mannequins COLD MAC

Any ideas are appreciated, I am flexable! Also open to recomendations on a VCO and snare/clap/sample element or cool rythmic stuff.

JPG https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2592332.jpg

Both... that is the correct answer
-- Dub007

The leftover space is for a uBraids or beehive and another quad vca, but I like the way you think!

Thanks though. I could have used that info last year, shortly after I got my Tip Top Happy Ending kit and didn't realize that the rating on the PSU module is TWICE the included wall wart is rated for. I was overloading what I thought was a perfectly fine power supply because the wall wart is only rated for 1000mA but the module can handle 2000mA. I thought that was pretty poor execution on their part. Who knows who else is running this thing too hot because they grew off of that kit?

EDITED Aug 28th, 17:33

Both... that is the correct answer

so you do... didn't spot it before...

Foxtrot Duo is a new stereo VCF based on Foxtrot's three filter models (modelled on Moog ladder, Korg MS-20 and Oberheim SEM). Use it in Mono mode, and it's just like a single Foxtrot channel, or switch to Stereo for, well, stereo things. Available in limited numbers now – more to come in September.

Please help me with making a decision. Looking for a great multi channel modulation source. I want something more exciting than Batumi. Here's my rack:

Currently torn between Kermit MK3 and o_C. So far the pros and cons I gathered are:
o_C:
- More versatile? Many different modes for modulation. Sequencing - euclidean, random etc. Just generally lots of different features. Hemispheres. Much cheaper even compared to a second hand Kermit. Also smaller.
However - More menu diving, less hands-on.
Kermit:
Can be a great wavetable oscillator. Preset morphing. More hands-on.

That's what I gathered so far. Can someone explain just how much Kermit ground the o_C covers? Is there preset morphing or something similar in o_C that kermit can do? Wavetable oscilaltor? Any pros and cons comparing both that you can think of? Just to mention, I've had Batumi, but sold it to fund a Matriarch. Now I'm looking for more modulation again and want to try something new.

Thanks in advance!

This module is pretty dope! Made a patch and a video today. Cheers!

youtube account

www.youtube.com/@Gravitymike-2050

EDITED Aug 28th, 10:34

I would like to see a feature for manufacturers (or perhaps users) to "give weight, or rating" to each function of a module that is present on a specific module. Essentially, what I'm asking for, is a way to be able to filter modules on their main purpose. The purpose they are/were being marketed for.

Currently, if I am looking for a module that mainly functions as a VCA, or any function for that matter, I will get flooded with modules that have a VCA, but have about 10 different functions and just happen to also work as a VCA. It is not their main function, and is often far from the results I was looking for.

For example. Any given module could have a primary, secondary and tertiary function listed. These are factored in for the search results. Any other functions can also be tagged for, but only show when the page of a given module is loaded, not within the search results.

Perhaps there is a way to make the search function a bit more user friendly this way.

This may already exist, but asking here seems like it makes more sense than making a separate thread.

Is there an API that will allow me to return my owned module collection as a list of JSON objects, or even a CSV? I can scrape the /e/modules/find/page results but would rather just get the raw data if possible. If that doesn't exist, it'd be a nice to have an endpoint that allows for that output format.

you should leave headroom on all rails? 25-30%

-- JimHowell1970

I have a second power supply to the right of the Bartender.

you should leave headroom on all rails? 25-30% is a good idea... so when it says 1A... you should really only try to power 750mA of modules... this is to allow for inaccuracies in stated power consumption and higher inrush requirements (more power than stated needed on power up) of digital modules...

you're over on the -12v rail by nearly 15%

this may cause all sorts of issues - primarily not powering on properly... ie it won't work

this case is undepowered for it's size... especially when trying to power a lot of digital modules, it's probably fine when filled with mostly lower power drawing analog modules

I had the pedal (Afterneath) as well. It does what it does.. well, I guess. I just found it to take up space because it got old after a while. The FX Aid (series) is a much better general, effect module; and yes, a classic. I own the Pro (a screen and storage, but at the expense of quite a bit of space). If you use more than a few effects, make sure you keep notes. I also own a Z5000 and MFx. I guess the point of asking about Afterneath was more saying I would make sure its what you want before shelling out the money... that said, if FREE, then why not?!?

In terms of other modules I reccommend.. All (or most) of my racks are public -- generally speaking, I own and like (or at least am in experimentation with if new) with all of the modules in them. Of the top of my head... I did like adding a PPEXP1 to my Pams. Pams' can do a lot... but should it always? I would maybe look into an RND Step or another dedicated S&H module.

Eurorack Go power restrictions:

• 12 VDC Supply CAUTION: Do not exceed 1 A for each Zone, AB or C
• 5 VDC Supply CAUTION: Do not exceed 1 A total (Zones A+B+C)
• -12 VDC Supply CAUTION: Do not exceed 1 A total(Zones A+B+C)

Fx Aid is a classic: multifunction, transparent, very practical and easy to use.
Afterneath (I own the pedal version) is a wonderful effect: very deep, powerful and soft at the same time.
As for Pam's: its reputation speaks for itself...
I'm only talking here about tools that I know and like a lot. So three wonderful companions that I can recommend to you!

hey Jopair, thanks for weighing in. Yes the audio interface is to bring in outside sources. Matriarch & Sound studio 3. I "picked Afterneath" because it was free with my heavily discounted 84 hp Eurorack case. Guy I bought some stuff off was basically having a fire sale. Already having some seminmodular gear, it made sense to me that I use this 84 hp to build out utilites ans effects to go with what Ive Already got. FX aid to do Phaser/flanger/ Chorus, in small space.

Great Tips about placment for the modules! ill do that.

tarot is there as a voice if i want to play this thing as a synth, but also i liked the option for wave shapping and it can get pretty growley.

Any alternate Modules i should look into?

thanks again!

This is probably one of the most underrated modules for processing external signals and integrating with eurorack.
An unsung hero in my rack

Here are some examples where i used this module to use external external stimuli/audio as a master clock for the rest of my rack:

https://odysee.com/@Clyph_Drops:9/VITA-MASTER-CLOCK:4

EDITED Aug 25th, 03:18

Nice jam! Moskwa and Ostankino are definitely modules I'd love to try. Cheers!

The vast majority of this is going to be personal thoughts/taste; not advice.

Why the "Audio Interface"? Are you bringing in audio from Matriarch; or other sources?
What made you pick the FX aid and Afterneath? -- maybe you will be; but I'm a fan of neither.
Move Fxaid after the quad vca -- unless you know why its in front.
Can you move Pams left a spot? (audio modules next to power are more likely to introduce noise).

Never used Tarot -- probably not my cup of tea from a quick look; but again maybe its yours.

I am also building a system to complement my Matriarch and Moog sound studio 3. Looking for more effects based complements to what I already own. PLZ Roast/ Critique....point out any redundancy or anything that seems out of place or pointless. Any and all help is appreciated. Dumb Drummer got more into synths in the last few years so some practical knowlage regarding Cables/ Compatablity is certainly lacking.

Danke

Had a lot of fun with this short

MADE THIS SONG USING ONLY A DRUM LOOP FROM LUBADH,
AND CREATED INSTANT MUSIC!

Eurorack modules used:
4ms Pods 48x case
Strymon Starlab (oscillator)
Instruo Lubadh (drum loop)
Moog Mother 32 (off screen baseline)

Long version song here:
@Clyph_Drops:9/escapism:1" target="_blank">https://odysee.com/@Clyph_Drops:9/escapism:1

Instruo's modules.

I guess they're not so much 'opinionated' as as 'feature rich' though. Their circuits get pretty damn creative, which I suppose is a form of opinion.

Carn (mixer/vca) might be the least fun to talk about, but practically useful examples. There is a small switch on the back to dis/engage a limiter (soft-clipper) across the outputs. When engaged it offers 'auto-mixing' relative to disengaged as it'll tuck things in as they hit the limit. Ofc you may not want this for plenty of reasons, so they let you turn it off, but new modules come with it engaged seems the be opinion. This, to me, is best of both worlds. ability to make a decision, while also turning it off. Other opinions are the layout of the panel/s themselves. In Carn's case, each channel works subtlety (or not so subtlety) different than the others. This may be considered flexibility, more so than opinion tho... which comes at a cost of course, both financially and of brain power

EDITED Aug 24th, 13:37