Yet another newbie looking for feedback

Hi everyone

I recently picked up a Mother-32 and now I'm hooked. I've been trying to build up a rack, have acquired a few 2nd hand modules and now I'm looking for some feedback.

What I already have:

• Disting mk4
• Pams
• Maths
• 2x Electro-smith VCAs (Only 1 in rack atm)
• Mother-32 (Not in rack)

Also:

• MIDI controller
• Microcosm Hologram (granular, reverb, looper pedal)

What I'm considering as a setup in a Doepfer Low cost base rack:

The story so far...

The idea is to create a semi-generative system for noodling; maybe something like a high quality Buddha box. I'm in no way a professionel musician, nor do I harbor aspirations to be one, I just really enjoy the sounds coming from especially the mutable instrument modules and would like to create a system capable of playing these outside VCV. Like almost everyone else on the planet, I work with computers for a living, so I would love to be able to create something simple and flow-state conducive to coding and writing. Ideally, I'd like a system I could "play" or tweak in between blocks of code or when struggling with writer's block... I suppose a room with a view and a fireplace to tend would be perfect, but that's not in my budget, so naturally I looked into the second-most expensive thing next to buying a house, i.e. building a eurorack setup.

Module walkthrough

Pamela's NEW workout Been reading a lot of beginner guides to modular and going through a few courses in VCV. A clock seems somewhat essential, Pams was on my list of clocks and so when a used one cropped up on a local exchange, I picked it up as my first proper module, as it seemed like a safe bet.
MI Marbles Had a little trouble distingising this from Pams, but playing with VCV I finally worked out that it's sorta one module split into 2, where the two play/trigger(?) in relation to one another. If I were to add this to my rack, it would be as a more "playable" clock, if that makes sense?
MI Ears Wanted a Make Noise Morphagene, but couldn't quite justify the cost. Found this instead for adding external sound sources into the eurorack. The contact mic is a fun bonus, but I doubt I'll use it much. External sources aren't on the top of my list, but I worked in radio documentaries in another life and fear I'll end up wanting to add some backdrops (rain, fire, cracking ice, birds, etc) from my recorder at one point or another.
MI Plaits Another safe-ish bet. This is one of the first modules I played around with in VCV and it seems an incredibly flexible sound source. Instead of this, I was considering the 4MS Ensemble Oscillator, since I don't think I'll be utilising the percussive aspects of Plaits much, except perhaps to play with the ears contact mic. I'm still kinda in between the two or even considering both.
MI Rings & MI Beads The way these two sound together is just incredible to me. The hope is I'd be able to achieve something I'd consider soothing and melodic quite easily, so that I could always return to these two when frustrated with all the other modules. I've considered clones of all the MI stuff, but ultimately I wanted to support the author and the commitment to opensource.
Make Noise Maths Already purchased this. I intend to use it as a mixer while learning the other modules and then do a deep dive into it later.
Disting MK4 Since this is a small system and I'm just beginning to dip my toe into the modular waters, I saw this used and picked it up immediately as a stand-in for what might be missing on this list.
Behringer 305 EQ/Mixer/Output This was one of the toughest calls for me. An output module. There are so many! I narrowed down what I need to a) headphone output, b) TS or TRS output for my effect pedal and c) a simple mixer. Tho this module is very expensive in HP, it is comparatively cheap in cold, hard cash.
Mother-32 Nearly forgot to add this! The hope is I can trigger the mother irregularly for some moogish bass beneath the plinky-plonk of the MI modules.
A few comments on my audio setup I own no external mixers or usb audio interfaces. The idea is to run the Mother-32 alongside the rest of the system, then use Maths and the 305 to mix and finally output to the microcosm hologram. I went for the microcosm over a pure reverb, because the microcosm can be a pure reverb, but the added looper appears an "easy fix" for quickly changing things.

So, there it is...

Will it work? I don't know. I'm sure I haven't thought of everything. There are no filters (Doepfer wasp?) for instance, barely any LFOs, nor any FX modules? Any and all comments are more than welcome. This is one of the more daunting shopping sprees of my life and even a little reassurance would go a long way.

Hi and welcome @pr1n.
You will most certainly want more VCAs at some point and likely a dedicated envelope module. Mutable Instruments makes Veils as a good VCA choice, and while Pam's and Maths can both do envelopes/LFOs/etc., you will likely want something that's more easily tweakable than Pam's, and you may want to use Maths for other things. Batumi, Zadar, Quadrax, and Ochs are popular choices for envelopes and LFOs.
You mentioned that you would like a playable system. Pam's is an amazing module, but I would not exactly call it hands-on or playable. Same goes for Disting, and while Disting is a decent option for someone learning what they need in a system, you will likely get frustrated with it if you are hoping for quick changes and intuitive use. In fact, I sold mine after I got dedicated "tweakable" replacement modules for the algorithms I used most often. Just something to consider.
And, yeah, a filter and or wavefolder would be a good choice for sound shaping. Plaits has a dedicated low pass gate mode, but filters come in many flavors and you will probably have a lot of fun choosing one and experimenting with different types.
Hope this helps.
Good luck and have fun!

EDITED Apr 3rd 2022, 20:49

Seconding all of farkas's suggestions... filter, VCA/mixer, EGs.

Also:

A mixer/attenuverter would be great. Either something like Shades, or something a little more complex like 4ms's SISM.

Some sort of random source / noise / S&H / etc.? Wogglebug, Nano Rand, etc.

A delay. Again, not entirely necessary, maybe, with the microcosm and Beads... and the tape delay in the Disting is very nice, too. But I dunno... I find that I can't have too many delays. One of the Noise Engineering Versio modules might be great here, as you can use it for several different things... delay, granular, reverb, distortion, etc.

Of course, the best thing might be to get the things on your current list and nothing else, then play for a few months and see what you find yourself needing... no need to fill those blanks immediately.

@farkas
Thank you so much for your words of wisdom, it was massively helpful!

I do have another electro-smith VCA like the one already in the rack. I suppose I could just install them both giving me a total of 4 pure VCAs?

Maths has Rise/Fall and so does the Mother-32, so they will have to do in a pinch until I expand both my budget and my knowledge. A proper ADSR envelope is hereby added to my wish list for the future, as is øchd or something similar. I rather enjoyed øchd in VCV, but the Batumi seems more practical... I'm hoping playing with the LFO options on Maths, Pams and the Disting will help me hear what exactly I want in an LFO. There are so many that I'm finding it almost impossible to choose right now.

Great points about Pams. Would adding MI Marbles alleviate the menu diving for controlling tempo and triggers? I was hoping it would.
Yes, Disting is intended merely as a beginner stopover gap filler sorta thing. Like @Shakespeare wrote below you, it also contains a sorta tape delay, which I like the sound of, and it didn't break the bank as I picked it up 2nd hand.

Filters and/or wavefolders added to wishlist. Thank you, again, this was massively helpful!

@Shakespeare
First of all, I love your plays :D

There's a mixer on the rack in the form of the Behringer 305 EQ/Mixer/Output. It's not ideal, but I was hoping it would do for my modest starter rack? To be frank, I'm unsure exactly how it's 'parametric EQ' performs and chose it mainly for the mixer, pedal and headphone output.

A random source like the ones you mentioned is a very good suggestion and one I did not think of. I thought I could patch Pams to Marbles and get something similar to Wogglebugs bursts of triggers, but if I'm understanding it right, you're talking about something like a noise generator? I'm intrigued. If you have the time to do so, please tell me more.

You've also been massively helpful. Just getting some eyes on my rack has been very, very helpful!

Well, the four Electrosmith VCAs aren't a bad idea...for modulation and CVs. These are linear, DC-coupled VCAs, which are better used for those purposes. For audio, you want exponential VCAs with AC-coupling, which is why you often see VCAs such as Veils, Intellijel's Dual VCA, etc used so often; since these have a control per VCA that can shift the VCA's response between full linear and full exponential.

Why this is important is because we perceive "apparent loudness" on an exponential curve...with a unit called the decibel. Decibel readings are confusing at first, but as long as you keep in mind that adding 10 dB of amplification to a signal, you're only increasing the apparent loudness in doubles.

Gonna mess with this, starting with a bigger and portable cab off the bat. I'm designing this around a Case From Lake 3 x 126 device, which is here: https://www.casefromlake.com/product-page/9u-eurorack-case-powered-120-or-126-hp-patched-resealable-modular-synthesizer And it runs only EUR 495, compared to EUR 379 (@ Schneidersladen) for the Doepfer. But the CFL one has a lid, strap, MUCH more amperage capacity, and if you want any tweaks to the basic design, they can do that too. Anyway...

Banged on this A LOT. Instead of having a bunch of Mutable modules, I opted for the ultimate tweak-head ones: Buchla. Or rather, the Tiptop reissues of the original Buchla 200 modules. Then I built around that.

TOP: This is the "audio" row. Starts off with the very useful Konstant Labs PWRchekr to keep an eye on your DC rails' health. Then a 1 hp blank, followed by a more comprehensive input module, the Doepfer A-119...sort of the OG of Eurorack input modules. It gives you a comparator for creating gates out of audio levels, plus a CV from the amplitude of the input signal...AND it has a proper 1/4" jack, not a 3.5mm. Then, a pair of Buchla 258t for s paired with a Dannysound Timbre...a waveshaper derived from the circuit in the Buchla 259, so I suppose the result here are "258 1/2s"? Anyway, Veils, then another curveball: Uli's clone of the ARP 2500 VCF. There IS a 200 series VCF...but it's not been reissued (yet), so why not drop in another famous early modular VCF? But after that, you get the Buchla take on that, with their 292t quad LPG...so you can have either a straight audio feed from the VCF to the row's stereo mixer, or you can have four of those vaunted Buchla lowpass gates...or both, why not? Anyway, the end mixer is right after the LPGs, a manual stereo mixer with four pannable inputs to help stereoize the signal before it hits the Beads, or you could just run the LPGs down to the performance mixer individually, or or or...tons of potential, and I've not even got into the next row yet! I put the Disting last in this row, as it'll be easier to get at both patch-wise AND finger-wise for the various purposes it's got.

MIDDLE: Modulation-ish. The famous Buchla "Source of Uncertainty" kicks the row off, then your Maths is after that. I put together a little array of the Electrosmith dual VCAs and a Buchla 257t for mixing and/or mangling modulation signals. Then there's a pair of Buchla 281ts with a Doepfer diode OR combiner for triggers and gates. It's worth noting that the individual envelope gens in the 281ts can be clocked way on up into the audio range, at which point they become something like CVable variable waveform generators. And there's a lot more of that sort of "hidden trickery" in here, since it's a weird hybrid of West and East Coast principles all functioning in Eurorack; back in the day, most of this would be in systems that couldn't necessarily be cross-patched due to CV and/or trig/gate differences that we, for the most part, don't have now across the Eurorack module gamut.

BOTTOM: Pam's, then a Doepfer dual quantizer for pitch constraint and a Eurorack Essentials 2 x 2 sequential switch. More about that in a bit. Then a second switch, this time from Doepfer and with a 4 x 1 circuit. After that is the first of two Buchla 245t sequencers, and then the second is separated by another Doepfer 4 x 1 switch. And why are those switches important? OK...sequential switches shift between two or more incoming CV signals when they receive (in this case) a trigger pulse. So the switches form a timed network to step through all sequencer rows, then send these over to the quantizer for discrete pitch tunings. Or you could just as easily use one sequencer as your "line" and the other as "transpose". Need divided timing for any of that? The Pam's deals handily with this need. After the sequencer section, you've got a Qu-bit Mixology. That performance mixer gives you CV control over your amplitude level, panning, and FX send per channel, plus a manual per-channel solo and mute. This also has a parallel FX processing bus, so your sends go out via the mono send and come back in through the stereo return. With that, I opted for a more straightforward FX processor, namely Freq Central's Stasis Leak, which gives you mono-to-stereo tap delay, chorus, and reverb. Note, also, that you can also opt to use the Beads post-mixer, hence one reason why they're close vertically. And all the way at the end is your balanced outputs, a second stereo return (useful if you split off the send to the Beads, then you can send the Beads output to the second return), a headphone preamp, and main level controls.

Yeah, OK...it's bigger. But unlike the Doepfer LC, this is designed to be portable, as the CFL cab comes with a lid (and yes, you have room to keep things patched beneath it) and a carry-strap. It's about the size of a large briefcase, which is a good form factor, especially for fitting it into an overhead bin on a plane. And the current limits are...well, if you go with the Meanwells that CFL offers, you'll never have to worry about exceeding current limits in this build. Ever. And while it definitely costs more than the initial plan, you probably won't need to add anything to this for years to come. You WON'T exhaust this build's possibilities!

EDITED Apr 6th 2022, 02:28

@Lugia

Banged on this A LOT. Instead of having a bunch of Mutable modules, I opted for the ultimate tweak-head ones: Buchla. Or rather, the Tiptop reissues of the original Buchla 200 modules. Then I built around that.

That is a massive reply, I won't go into all of it simply because of your answer's complexity and the amount of reconfiguring you've done. First, let me say your input made for some very interesting reading. I like that you took the few modules I already had and built a buchla tiptop rack from there, but ultimately the finished product is too big of a challenge for me -- Both musically and financially. A lot of these modules are also on backorder with no timeframe for when they'll be back in stock (I live quite far from everything) and I haven't seen a single Tiptop buchla module pop up on my local used exchange... This probably means they are keepers, which is a great thing, and you've certainly opened my eyes to incorporating some buchla elements into my system. The whole idea of combining East and West coast also appeals to me. I'm especially intrigued by the Dual Oscillator Model 258t, the Source of Uncertainty Model 266t and the Dannysound Timbre.

Well, the four Electrosmith VCAs aren't a bad idea...for modulation and CVs. These are linear, DC-coupled VCAs, which are better used for those purposes. For audio, you want exponential VCAs with AC-coupling, which is why you often see VCAs such as Veils, Intellijel's Dual VCA, etc used so often; since these have a control per VCA that can shift the VCA's response between full linear and full exponential.

That is a perfect explanation of something my system is clearly missing. Thank you!

Gonna mess with this, starting with a bigger and portable cab off the bat.

Portability is not an issue for me. I won't be playing any gigs nor bring the system travelling. I can see why you went with the bigger case, but what I like about the doepfer low cost base is that I can always add another doepfter lowcost ontop of it. I also quite enjoy that it's made of wood, which makes easier to either paint or varnish or even leave raw.

While it definitely costs more than the initial plan, you probably won't need to add anything to this for years to come. You WON'T exhaust this build's possibilities!

I'm overwhelmed by the thought you put into this rack on my behalf. I've read your module rundown multiple times now and am more impressed each time with how you've shaped it. I will definitely return to it again and again as I learn more about eurorack in general. Again, thank you very much!

Actually, the thing that REALLY dropped everyones' jaws to the floor when Tiptop released the first two "t" modules...was that the price on the 258t was only $200. That's the non-Buchla part...that price tag. Everyone's so used to seeing prices up around the $1000 (or higher...a LOT higher) mark for Buchla modules that I myself just about did a spit-take when I saw that. Anyway, they'll have all of those out by the end of summer (barring supply chain issues) and they're all supposed to be in that general and affordable range. And, without dropping any specific hints, a support person at Tiptop that I had some communication with noted that these will NOT be the only ones and that they're going to try and reproduce as many different ones as they can, also noting that there's not much documentation on some of the 200 series. They also want to do some 100 series, but they're working out supply issues with...oddly...the knobs. Weird story there, too long for here.

OK...as for the build, all requisites duly noted...(heads up)....

Back to the Doepfer LCs, then...you mentioned you liked the stackability of those, so what I did here was to use both an LC6 and an LCB. So the top two rows are vertical, then the third is at an angle, and the fourth...where I put the "controllers"...is flat, like you'd expect if there was a keyboard in there.

But there's NOT...I'll explain that in a minute...

TOP: First thing is a PWRchekr for the top cab, then the 258t/Dannysound combos are still there, as is the A-119 input module. Anyway, the top row also still has the Veils and Behringer 2500 VCF, and the rest of the audio now moves downward from the VCF.

2ND: Modulation core is pretty much the same, minus one 281t. The Disting is next to the remaining 281t, and then the Beads is next to that.

3RD: The SOU, and then a more compact 2-row (and then some) sequencer, the Tesseract Step Fader. The sequential switch is after that, and then a dual-channel quantizer from Intellijel. After that are effects: one of these is Make Noise's Mimeophon, which can do delays, loops, and several other interesting things. Then the Stasis Leak returns to make use of the mixer's mono send and stereo return.

BOTTOM: The lower cab's PWRchekr, then the Pam's...and then this Nonlinearcircuits CVable matrix mixer. Instead of a keyboard or something similar, I put this thing in. What it can do is to send a signal to one of eight inputs, then it mixes those across four output busses. But since each control responds to incoming CV and modulation signals, you can either tweak it, or you can have modulation sources operate it. Or both, what the hell? Then the Mixology and Ciao! as before.

This slims things down, as desired. And by avoiding a typical controller, this also plays into the generative aspects since the MISO/VCAs core can output several CVs at once, and then you can also send those into the matrix's CV ins to control the crossmodulation aspects that the matrix will generate. And size-wise, this only stands slightly taller than Doepfer's LC9 case, but has far better ergonomics. Better? Or more changes?

EDITED Apr 10th 2022, 00:46