Roast my rack

This is my first rack. So be brutal.

As pretty much everyone else here I have come to seek advise and opinions on the rack that I am dreaming up.

Currently I have only The Z-DSP and the Intellijel Audio I/O and use this to process external synths. That said I do want to move more into the modular world. I’ve tried to read and take on board how to approach a eurorack build, keeping in mind the building blocks of sound.

Still learning.

That said any suggestions, advice, etc. from this community would be very much appreciated! :)

As for sound I'm interested in more straightforward synth sounds but also want to be able to experiment with ambient. Don't know if it's possible to have both in a rack this size. :/

EDITED Mar 9th 2020, 18:25

What external synths are you using? Are they Eurorack compatible or just your "normal" hardware synths?

You expressed interest in "straight forward" sound. But the modules that you have are sample-playback, a wavetable oscillator, and an additive source (even though analog). To me, a straight-forward synth sound would include two traditional VCO units somewhere in the mix. But that's my interpretation of that definition. You might want to clarify that.

What seems to be missing are the usual suspects: VCAs, noise sources, attenuators/attenuverters, and mixers of all varieties. Basically all of the boring stuff that makes the difference in modular that most people forget and start stacking up the cool/sexy modules in their rack.

Also, if you're only going to have one filter, I would pick something that can do more than just low-pass.

You have a lot of big modules in a relatively small rack and nothing that really "glues" them all together (boring modules). You might want to start all over and think about modulation first and then sound sources next. The brilliance of Eurorack is the modulation.

This is really helpful so thank you for taking the time to help me out especially because you must give this advise often. Still a bit to wrap my head around, but that’s exciting!

In terms of some VCAs, noise sources, attenuators/attenuverters, and mixers, what would you say are some good ones to start with?

Regarding your question about external synths, one has the ability to send and receive CV, the Dave Smith Pro 3, and the other is what I have been use it for ages, the microKorg, which cannot interface directly. And to better clarify the straight forward sound, I like the sounds that LCD Soundsystem produces, both more straightforward a more weird flourishes they texture their songs with.

At the same time I like the idea of being able to also explore more ambient possibilities. I get the feeling that these may not be able to coexist in a rack the size I am working to but I could be wrong.

Also, is there anything that I should keep from this first stab?

EDITED Mar 9th 2020, 21:40

I read up a little on the Pro-3 and its CV outs. It has 3 CV outs and a dedicated gate out. Have you been using them with your Z-DSP to modulate any of its settings? The Pro-3 also has an internal sequencer.

While having your sequencer in your Pro-3 is not the most optimum solution, it's a great starting point... especially since it can reach your rack through the CV and gate outputs.

If you have the patch cords, I would definitely start modulating that Z-DSP along with the Pro-3. The CV outs can be assigned to just about anything... so get wicked with it.

I know the end goal is to have a self-contained system. But don't overlook what you have as a good bench to get some experience. You could save a bit of money upfront using the Pro-3 instead of your Eloquencer. Get it eventually. But it's always best to be in a position to add more modules over time rather than everything at once and hope for the best.

My favorite VCA is the Intellijel Quad VCA. It covers almost all of the bases: it can do linear, exponential, as well as act as a simple mixer. I'm getting a little confused as to where you're at in the build because your rack doesn't match what's posted here. Seems that you already put one in there. :)

But definitely read up on the Pro-3 and that CV... nice synth by the way.

Haha, yeah already making changes on your suggestion.

As for what is currently in the rack, it’s just the z-dsp and the Intellijel Audio I/O. The Pro 3 is arriving in the next few weeks. My initial thought was just as you suggest, to use the Pro 3 to cut my teeth a bit and use the z-dsp to start my modular journey by using the rack as an effects rig then to slowly add modules that would allow the rack the potential to live a bit more on its own as I get more comfortable with eurorack and the theory behind it.

For the time being my intention is just to use the Pro 3 with the z-dsp. My question therefore is do I need to keep the Intellijel Audio I/O in the case or only when syncing with external synths without cv connections? Sorry if there is a completely obvious answer to this, just pretty new to all this. :/

You have to have the Audio I/O, yes. The reason there is because your incoming audio signals need to be boosted up from line-level to synth-level, and then back down again at the output. It's a decent interface for this sort of use, but you need to keep in mind that its inputs don't have envelope followers, so if you wanted to patch up something dynamics-dependant, you either have to add a couple of these or jettison the Audio I/O and go with separate inputs that have the envelope follower (the Doepfer A-119 is sort of the bog standard here) and then a stereo output with transformer isolation. That last bit is useful to keep noise and crud from passing from the synth to your mixer and vice-versa.

Haha, yeah already making changes on your suggestion.

As for what is currently in the rack, it’s just the z-dsp and the Intellijel Audio I/O. The Pro 3 is arriving in the next few weeks. My initial thought was just as you suggest, to use the Pro 3 to cut my teeth a bit and use the z-dsp to start my modular journey by using the rack as an effects rig then to slowly add modules that would allow the rack the potential to live a bit more on its own as I get more comfortable with eurorack and the theory behind it.

For the time being my intention is just to use the Pro 3 with the z-dsp. My question therefore is do I need to keep the Intellijel Audio I/O in the case or only when syncing with external synths without cv connections? Sorry if there is a completely obvious answer to this, just pretty new to all this. :/

-- TMR1984

Lugia answered the question about keeping the I/O. Yes, simple answer: Eurorack level is hotter than line level (where your synth and other gear works). So you will want something that can boost and cut for the in and outs respectively.

Something that I've recommended before is to buy a synth voice. A synth voice is basically all of the elements of a simple synth in one Eurorack module. The individual portions are usually accessible via patch cable. Intellijel makes the Atlantis as an example of a synth voice. Another idea would be to buy something like the Moog Grandmother. It's under $1000 and is a stand-alone synth but with some nice patch points. It's getting away from your rack. But I'm thinking more of an entry point then you can use the rack to supplement your Pro-3 and Moog Grandmother. Eventually, it can become its own standalone synth. But I get the feeling that you're a keyboard (black and white keys) guy and Grandmother is a nice platform for some real-time controlling.

These are just ideas and I can be completely wrong. But there are tons of possibilities with Eurorack.

You have to have the Audio I/O, yes. The reason there is because your incoming audio signals need to be boosted up from line-level to synth-level, and then back down again at the output. It's a decent interface for this sort of use, but you need to keep in mind that its inputs don't have envelope followers, so if you wanted to patch up something dynamics-dependant, you either have to add a couple of these or jettison the Audio I/O and go with separate inputs that have the envelope follower (the Doepfer A-119 is sort of the bog standard here) and then a stereo output with transformer isolation. That last bit is useful to keep noise and crud from passing from the synth to your mixer and vice-versa.
-- Lugia

Thanks for this advise Lugia! Hadn’t even considered that so very much appreciated. Is it possible to add a module that does this specifically after the Audio I / O?

Haha, yeah already making changes on your suggestion.

As for what is currently in the rack, it’s just the z-dsp and the Intellijel Audio I/O. The Pro 3 is arriving in the next few weeks. My initial thought was just as you suggest, to use the Pro 3 to cut my teeth a bit and use the z-dsp to start my modular journey by using the rack as an effects rig then to slowly add modules that would allow the rack the potential to live a bit more on its own as I get more comfortable with eurorack and the theory behind it.

For the time being my intention is just to use the Pro 3 with the z-dsp. My question therefore is do I need to keep the Intellijel Audio I/O in the case or only when syncing with external synths without cv connections? Sorry if there is a completely obvious answer to this, just pretty new to all this. :/

-- TMR1984

Lugia answered the question about keeping the I/O. Yes, simple answer: Eurorack level is hotter than line level (where your synth and other gear works). So you will want something that can boost and cut for the in and outs respectively.

Something that I've recommended before is to buy a synth voice. A synth voice is basically all of the elements of a simple synth in one Eurorack module. The individual portions are usually accessible via patch cable. Intellijel makes the Atlantis as an example of a synth voice. Another idea would be to buy something like the Moog Grandmother. It's under $1000 and is a stand-alone synth but with some nice patch points. It's getting away from your rack. But I'm thinking more of an entry point then you can use the rack to supplement your Pro-3 and Moog Grandmother. Eventually, it can become its own standalone synth. But I get the feeling that you're a keyboard (black and white keys) guy and Grandmother is a nice platform for some real-time controlling.

These are just ideas and I can be completely wrong. But there are tons of possibilities with Eurorack.

-- Ronin1973

Thanks Ronin! Yeah, been more of a key guy for awhile and I guess that’s what has brought be to eurorack, those endless possibilities, it’s just getting to grips with the basic building blocks down first. Good shout on the synth voice. Another that I was considering was the Intellijel Atlantis. Moves me more into the modular realm but seems a solid place to build from. Ronin / Lugia, thoughts on this?

You have to have the Audio I/O, yes. The reason there is because your incoming audio signals need to be boosted up from line-level to synth-level, and then back down again at the output. It's a decent interface for this sort of use, but you need to keep in mind that its inputs don't have envelope followers, so if you wanted to patch up something dynamics-dependant, you either have to add a couple of these or jettison the Audio I/O and go with separate inputs that have the envelope follower (the Doepfer A-119 is sort of the bog standard here) and then a stereo output with transformer isolation. That last bit is useful to keep noise and crud from passing from the synth to your mixer and vice-versa.
-- Lugia

Thanks for this advise Lugia! Hadn’t even considered that so very much appreciated. Is it possible to add a module that does this specifically after the Audio I / O?

-- TMR1984

Do you mean the output isolation or the envelope follower? If the former, there's no point...you'd be feeding an output module into yet another output module. No point to that whatsoever, as it wastes space and adds nothing.

Now, as for the envelope follower...yes, there ARE separate envelope follower modules, and you'll find them in their pulldown category. But the issue there gets back to "real estate"...would it make more sense to have a dedicated input module with the envelope follower in 8 hp, or to take another 4-8 hp for an extra module whose function would be covered by the former example? As long as you're in a smaller build scale like this, panel space needs to be treated like it was made of platinum.

To both Ronin and Lugia, thanks again. I’ve had a think about everything you have said and hopefully translated that advice into a slightly more sensible (read actually usable) rack.

I’ve tried to account for sequencing and being able to play the rack as I’m coming from a more keys oriented environment so chose the tetrapad and tete combo. Using Mangrove, Just friends and pluck for voices. I may have added a few too many filters but those present seemed interesting to me so I have kept them in for reference.

After reading about the ‘boring’ modules they seem less so now as I understand better why they are present and have incorporated those recommended.

I will stress that I am building this as an ideal rack that I will grow into in the real world, picking up a module or two to learn before progressing to the next which will undoubtedly change module selection over time. However, as long as I get a rack that has the necessary building blocks in place, with modules I have at the very least read up on, I can be fairly confident that the most basic foundations of my modular journey have been laid.

Below is the most recent build and I do apologise in advance if I have forgotten to factor something in or over provided in other areas. Many thanks again.

Question about the latest build:

You have the Quadra, the Quad LFO, and the Batumi. That's three units each with four LFO-ish functions. Are you planning on needing that many or are they redundant?

You mentioned sequencing but I don't see anything that does any serious sequencing onboard. Maybe that's not where you want to go. But check out the Eloquencer or if you can find a decent builder the Westlicht Performer. I just bought a Performer but I have to reflow some of the work and replace a couple of damaged CV jacks. But it's a great sequencer. I also have a 1010 Music Toolbox. I like it but the most current firmware kind of blows chunks (why I got the Performer).

Question about the latest build:

You have the Quadra, the Quad LFO, and the Batumi. That's three units each with four LFO-ish functions. Are you planning on needing that many or are they redundant?

You mentioned sequencing but I don't see anything that does any serious sequencing onboard. Maybe that's not where you want to go. But check out the Eloquencer or if you can find a decent builder the Westlicht Performer. I just bought a Performer but I have to reflow some of the work and replace a couple of damaged CV jacks. But it's a great sequencer. I also have a 1010 Music Toolbox. I like it but the most current firmware kind of blows chunks (why I got the Performer).
-- Ronin1973

Thanks Ronin! Regarding sequencing it's true I haven't accounted for anything major. Originally I was thinking the Eloquencer as it seems of more of what I have been used to. I'm going to read up on the Westlicht Performer you mentioned. I've been on the waiting list for a Cirklon for awhile as I have lots of external gear as well so I'm undecided as to whether I keep deeper sequencing external or look to build a more all in one system (for my basic needs) that I can travel with.

Regarding the LFOs (based on my level of knowledge) gonna confidently say redundant on my part. I suppose regarding LFOs the Quad LFO seems more immediate but the Batumi seems like it has deeper functionality.

I'm torn between the Modcan and the Batumi + Poti. I have the Batumi... but the grass seems a little greener on the Modcan side if you have the rackspace.

I'm torn between the Modcan and the Batumi + Poti. I have the Batumi... but the grass seems a little greener on the Modcan side if you have the rackspace.

-- Ronin1973

A conundrum it would seem. I think I may go with Modcan, at least for now at the planning stage as it appears (on surface detail, to be a bit more approachable to me. I think I’ll do a bit more reading up on both though and I’ll drop the Quadra due to redundancy.

In terms of the other modules, have I made sensible selections and accounted for the necessary functions apart from a lack of complex sequencer and overly greedy selection on LFOs?

Looking it over, briefly... you're loaded up on filters. I can't make a judgment call there as they seem to be focused around different ideals/sonic possibilities.

Some areas to research

Noise
Sample and Hold
Envelope follower
Quantizer
Logic
Mixers (get two simple mixers that handle DC and audio)
Audio mixer (stereo output with sends)

You might find a combination module with noise and sample & hold... and possibly an envelope follower all-in-one.
Noise: at least white... plus pink if you can find it.
Logic: AND, OR, NOR, XOR, etc.
Quantizer: you have one in Ornaments & Crime. But if you use it, then you burn the O_C for other functions

If you can handle the clunky interface, a Disting Mk4 is always a great module to have if you want to try out a particular function before buying a dedicated module. At under $200 and 4HP, it's a great way to figure out where you want to go without traveling there first (aka buying a dedicated module).

Looking it over, briefly... you're loaded up on filters. I can't make a judgment call there as they seem to be focused around different ideals/sonic possibilities.

Some areas to research

Noise
Sample and Hold
Envelope follower
Quantizer
Logic
Mixers (get two simple mixers that handle DC and audio)
Audio mixer (stereo output with sends)

You might find a combination module with noise and sample & hold... and possibly an envelope follower all-in-one.
Noise: at least white... plus pink if you can find it.
Logic: AND, OR, NOR, XOR, etc.
Quantizer: you have one in Ornaments & Crime. But if you use it, then you burn the O_C for other functions

If you can handle the clunky interface, a Disting Mk4 is always a great module to have if you want to try out a particular function before buying a dedicated module. At under $200 and 4HP, it's a great way to figure out where you want to go without traveling there first (aka buying a dedicated module).

-- Ronin1973

Nice! This gives me a lot to think about so thanks again for your time and advice.

I agree about using the O_C as it may have more useful applications. And I was thinking about starting with a Disting MK4 as a number of forums suggested it as a good place to get to grips with different functions.

Right, gonna do my homework. Then third time’s the charm? Let’s hope so!