RNDSynth

Hello there. I found interest in modular synths due to the fact that I could'nt find anything that would allow me to create rather random melodies. so I came up with the idea of a small modular synth that I can pair with my stuff from Elektron.

I don't know if I'd actually need the SYNC module, or if I could just send the clock from my Model:Samples or Cycles into the CLK IN of the Varigate. Also I'm not sure if I'd be able to get sound out of this system with my chosen modules, as I don't see how the Manther Growl would connect to the intellijel Outs.

Basically I want to use the external clock from my Model:Samples or Cycles to set the tempo and then have the Varigate 4+ to control the Manther Growl. The sound would then need to go into my mixer.

Any help is apreciated.

Hi !

Don't take this the wrong way but this rack is essentially a much less capable and more expensive version of the desktop Manther. I quickly read the product page for the desktop version and it seems it's capable of randomizing its sequences, amongst many other features that are missing from the above rack, so if your goal is 'only' to get the sound of Manther and random sequences while playing nice with the rest of your Elektron-based setup, I'd say the desktop version would be better suited for that rather than getting a small rack like the one above. Maybe the Elektronauts forum has a thread on the Manther where people share their experiences with Manther + Elektron machines ? You can also get randomness from some sequencers such as Squarp Pyramid paired with any synth of your choice.
I suggest reading this excellent thread before going further: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/3579
Make sure Eurorack is the answer to what you seek before making such investment, it is wonderful on many levels but can also be a sub-par solution for many situations too. For the same money the rack above would cost, you can get a desktop Manther AND a Behringer semi-modular to start playing with patch cables if you also want to do that (and those usually have MIDI I/O so they can play nice with your other stuff).
If you're curious about what Eurorack is and what it offers, the thread I suggest above also offers some perspective on that but there also was another created after which looks at the subject from a different standpoint: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/8681

I hope I was able to offer you some perspective and food for thoughts as my goal is to get you the most for your money ;-)

Have a good one.

D.

toodee is spot on here. This is one of those examples where modular is NOT the solution.

While it seems like modular is the Royal Road to raw sonic power, it's often the case that one can cobble up something in modular that doesn't work as well as an off the shelf patchable and which also winds up costing considerably more than that not-as-sexy solution. Small systems are especially prone to this problem, notably ones in which users try and populate very small cabs. But the REAL use for those, tbh, is to allow for expanding existing systems with a few specific modules. Think a Maths might beef up your MS-20 mini? That's what those minicases are for. But when you house a voice module in one, add the cost of the cab, one or two possibly (or not) useful additional modules, you often find that all that's happened is that you've replicated the functionality of an existing off-the-shelf solution for sometimes twice the money. Not good.

Here's a suggestion...when doing a build on MG, I'll start off TOO big, then start reducing the setup until I've arrived at a minimum for what result I'm looking for. But at the same time, if you can keep reducing things to the point where you're arriving at a result that's comparable to (but more expensive than) an off the shelf device, go with the off-the-shelf device. You'll often find that the same amount of money spent on the modular will get you MORE power from those, since the cost of one modular solution can often come in at twice (or worse) the amount of similar patchables, etc.

Hi. Thanks for the answers.

At the moment I use Ableton and some Max-Plugins to create random melodies that I then feed into my Models:Samples or Cycles, but I would like something that doesn't require my PC. I've looked for standalone random melody boxes, that could simply send a midi-signal into my Model:Samples or Cycles, but such a thing does'nt exist.

I specifically look for something that can create random melodies on the fly by simply turning a few knobs or pushing a few sliders around, without having to program every note into the stepsequencer beforehand. That's why I like the idea of the Varigate 4+.
The Manther Growl is just the synth I chose for now, because it sounds nice, but I might add other synth-modules later on.

So my initial question still stands, if this setup would allow me to do what I intend.

standalone random melody boxes, that could simply send a midi-signal into my Model:Samples or Cycles, but such a thing does'nt exist.
-- jrs77

That statement is too incomplete, as it stands it sounds incorrect. What is random melodies for you ? The moment the notes are generated, the length of the notes, the pitch of the notes, the velocity, all of that combined ?
Pretty sure that between the Elektron stuff, the Pyramid and others, one could achieve a lot of randomness in MIDI sequences without requiring to use Eurorack tools. Hell, I didn't even need anything when I was trying to achieve random patterns on my Elektron machines, clever use of probability and conditional trigs did the trick, I was able to achieve never repeating patterns with little effort. Did you try that, why doesn't it work for you ?
You're going to need to explain better what you want to achieve, "random melody" is not enough, also if we are to recommend a Euro setup to achieve your goals.

At the moment I use Ableton and some Max-Plugins to create random melodies that I then feed into my Models:Samples or Cycles, but I would like something that doesn't require my PC. I've looked for standalone random melody boxes, that could simply send a midi-signal into my Model:Samples or Cycles, but such a thing does'nt exist.
-- jrs77

Sure it does: https://conductivelabs.com/ It's capable of that and a lot more besides; I have and use one myself.

At the moment I use Max-Plugins in Ableton that create random patterns with a single mouse click (note, pitch and velocity), which I then modify to my liking and feed into my Model:Samples or Cycles through USB/Midi.
A standalone midi-device of this nature doesn't exist as far as I know, so I'm looking for the next best thing, which is something like the Varigate 4+, where I can simply play around with the sliders to create a "random melody".

Using the probability function and conditinal triggers doesn't help me that much, as I still need to first program note/pitch/velocity for each step on my Model:Samples or Cycles, beforehand.

So yeah, what I'm looking for is something that puts out random patterns/melodies within seconds of pressing a few knobs or pushing some sliders around, like on the Varigate 4+.

At the moment I use Ableton and some Max-Plugins to create random melodies that I then feed into my Models:Samples or Cycles, but I would like something that doesn't require my PC. I've looked for standalone random melody boxes, that could simply send a midi-signal into my Model:Samples or Cycles, but such a thing does'nt exist.
-- jrs77

Sure it does: https://conductivelabs.com/ It's capable of that and a lot more besides; I have and use one myself.

-- Lugia

Projects like these I've found others aswell, but none of them are comercially available products, so I can't buy one of them. The newest of these interesting projects is the Torso T-1, but it's aswell only a kickstarter project so far.

EDITED Jun 14th 2020, 21:42

I’m no expert since I don’t actually own one, but I’m almost certain what you described can be achieved with the Squarp Pyramid I already mentioned.

Also, the Varigate is a fantastic module but it doesn’t do what you seem to think it does. At this point, my suggestion would be to do a lot more research about existing midi sequencers you consider easy enough to purchase, reading product manuals carefully and what not, as well as reading about basic modular concepts such as gates vs CV etc, and probably also have a look at a few 1st rack advice threads on this forum which contain a ton of answers to many usual questions.

I basically need a device that let's me create melodies without me having to have an idea about the melody first. And I need something that doesn't play like a piano or whatever.

I've watched tons of videos about the Varigate 4+ and it does what I want. The Conductive Labs NDLR would be great and maybe even better, but I can't buy it anywhere.

The Squarp Pyramid is a nice device, but again I have to punch in every single note for every step and then start playing around for each step. I can do all of these things with my current devices allready, as they all have 16step sequencers integrated.

Hi Jrs77,

The ACL - Sinfonion might be just right then, ridiculous expensive but ideal for us lazy people who don't want to put any notes into any devices. With the Sinfinion you just provide a clock and some input, let's say a slow LFO and there you go. You have three "normal" channels/voices for notes, then one specific "chord" channel (3 or 4 note-chords), for that you can use the chord "sequencer" but even if you don't use that "sequencer" (officially it's called chord progression sequencer) it still runs fantastic and putting some input in that sequencer is easier than eating an apple. It's not in a way that you have to put single notes for that chord sequencer, just a few settings, removing / adding only a few notes in a few chord steps and there you go.

The part I like most of the Sinfonion is the Arpeggio, just plug the clock into it, use the 1 V/oct output to connect it to one of your nicest oscillator sounds you got and the Sinfonion is doing the rest for you, playing chords, melodies (well kind of, created either by those 3 voice-channels and/or by the arpeggio), whatever you want. If you get a little bit less lazy than 100% (so let's say being lazy at 95%) then with once and a while pressing a button you change the sound, note, chord, arpeggio, transposition and all the other things I most likely forgot.

You can let sound it all nicely in-tune or if you want to let it sound not too perfect you use the detune option and there goes your nice sounding sounds to smithereens ;-)

The Sinfonion is quite complicated but the manual is written pretty good with quite some humour, so it's easy to read through, follow the simple steps mentioned there and you got most likely what you want (and way beyond that).

The user interface is very friendly and once you have gone once through the manual, you need that manual only for a few special settings but most of the time it's easy, not much to remember, no serious menu diving, most is just one-level, with a few exceptions I think (like factory reset or something like that, but the often used options is just pressing one button and then you can select what you want).

You have assignable "things" like: 4 CVs that you can assign, 2 inputs, 2 outputs and... nice one: two pot-meters that you can assign to parameters you like to change with them.

Oh yes, make sure you got enough voices that you can "feed" the Sinfonion with, that's perhaps the only con (beside the price) of this fantastic thing: The Sinfonion is like a black hole, it absorbs (and requires) all your modules you have in your rack; it's for medium till large environments. So if you just have two oscillators you might just not have enough "food" for the Sinfonion to feed it and keep it happy ;-) You need 8 voices: 3 for those normal channels, then 4 (so a quad VCO is perfect for the job; I am using here the Doepfer A-111-4 for the chords, these two go quite well together) for the chord channel and a voice for the arpeggio. I guess you can start with 6 voices and in the future grow to 8 voices, starting with using just one normal channel first; but 6 voices is the minimum I would advice to go for. If you don't have a quad VCO yet, you could even start with 5 voices, 3 voices for the chords then, 1 for the arpeggio and 1 (to start with) for one of those three normal channels.

Good luck and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

I think I've found a good solution for me in the Toraiz Squid now. It creates fully random patterns/velocities/pitches and is plug&play with all my other hardware.