Building my first modular. Looking for some feedback and any advice

Hey everyone.
Hope you're all doing well in these strange times!

I am looking at getting more into modular but would like some feedback and advice before I start spending all of my money....
I currently have a Make Noise 0-coast and 0-ctrl to start off with, but I am looking to expand into more voices, effects, modulation, sequencing and control, while staying in a fairly small case.

After doing a bit of research I think I'm pretty set on the Intellijel Palette Case. It seems well designed, the 1U row seems quite handy for utility modules etc, it's quite portable and will fit on my studio desk (Output's Platform Desk). Are there any other cases I should consider?

In regards to modules, I have sketched out a few different Palette Case ideas. All of which are fairly similar to each other except for some different effects and sequencing modules.
I would love some feedback on this and any ideas for other modules to consider.

The music I want to make with this rig is a mixture of generative ambient music and more aggressive left field electronic music. The full spectrum of sonic moods!
Here is a link to some music I made in 2020 (during the first lockdown) with a mate who has gotten me into modular (it's all his fault! lol). Check it out and let me know what you think:

Any thoughts, feedback and advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Best,

Kieran

EDITED Jan 5th 2021, 20:53

Hi Kieran. You may want to take a look at the post "Minimum Viable Party" from earlier this morning. There is some overlap in my suggestions here.
In short, get a bigger case. You will want and need it in the long run. Think long term and not based on your current proposed idea and budget. All of that will go out the window when you buy a few modules to start with. There are a few other threads in this forum about the folly of trying to do a tiny modular build despite the current wave of YouTube videos. I would recommend you read through those threads pretty carefully before buying a tiny palette case.
If you want specific module guidance, let us know. Lots of folks here will be glad to help.
Have fun and good luck!

As others will no doubt tell you, you're going to want a bigger case... especially if you want to be able to make music in such diverse genres. You're going to find what you've planned here extremely limiting.

If you must keep it small, I'd at least suggest going for the 104hp Palette that is now available... it offers significantly more space, and a couple of additional utilities as well, and it's only a bit more expensive than the 62hp version. Even that is pretty tight, though... a better option would be something like a 2x104 case.

Much as I love the Palette cases, the 1u row really isn't the best in terms of space economy. It's great if you have limited space, or if you need it to fit in your backpack. But in terms of function-per-hp, 1u is awful compared to standard 3u modules.

Ha! Was posting this at the same time as farkas, apparently

@kieranjonesmusic Looking at all the space that Intelljel scales takes up in your first and last versions, I wonder if you know that Pamela's New Workout can generate signals which are already quantised to different scales, so this module may be completely unnecessary. Of course, if you want to quantise other things Pam cannot do that, but I would still recommend something smaller.

Ha! Was posting this at the same time as farkas, apparently
-- Shakespeare

What is it they say about great minds? Haha.
While I have to assume there are people out there who have been extremely satisfied with a small limited rack like this, I felt very constrained until I had about 300hp filled. Maybe that says more about the limits of my creativity and ingenuity than anything. I also prefer larger modules too, so the small knobs and cramped interfaces don't get much use in my rack.
Ergonomics is something that seems to be overlooked in some of these small palettes. I've watched some of the MylarMelodies and Ricky Tinez tiny rack videos and I would get so frustrated with the crowded lack of tweaking space. But different strokes for different folks. That's the beauty of being a musician.

Of course, if you want to quantise other things Pam cannot do that, but I would still recommend something smaller.
-- the-erc

And equally of course Disting has several different Quantise modes, so you could use that as your quantiser.

Much as I love the Palette cases, the 1u row really isn't the best in terms of space economy.
-- Shakespeare

Surely the best reason for the 1u row is so that you can have Steppy in its correct horizontal orientation? An opportunity missed in these examples though.

mantis, mantis, mantis. Best beginner case imho, plenty of power good ergonomics, and plenty of HP.

Doepfer, Doepfer, Doepfer. Best beginner case imho ;-)

Edit: See below my next post for an explanation.

EDITED Jan 6th 2021, 00:04

Hi Kieranjonesmusic, All,

Kieranjonesmusic: Welcome to modular synthesizers and as almost everybody mentioned already, go for a bigger case is the best hint we can provide to you. If you don't mind to spend the money then the Intellijel 7U 104 HP case is a nice one. If you want a budget case then keep reading.

You might want to start with a "classic & simple" synthesizer setup, meaning start with two VCOs, one or two filters, two VCAs (one for linear, the other one exponential), one or two LFOs, again one or two EGs, a mixer and an I/O module to go external though some of our members here do this without the I/O module, up to you, can't say haven't warned you to be careful then with DC signals ;-) I haven't even mentioned other utility modules yet, which would be the next step and only after that the more fancy looking modules (if at all). Since you have already those two lovely Make Noise - 0-coast and 0-ctrl modules, you got already some quite nice stuff there together with the above classic setup that isn't even that simple as one might think!

Your video and track is nicely done by the way! You almost fulfil the new "requirement" here of 17 minutes, but that's for a drone, so I guess your 13 minutes are fantastic for a starter ;-) Actually... your track is so beautifully done... why bothering to go into modular synth? Modular synth is bloody costly and with a track like the above, I would just continue that way; would save tons of money ;-)

All: Not sure why this Mantis case is always mentioned as being the best case to start with since it would be the cheapest one, it always puzzled me a bit, so let's have a look into more details, shall we? ;-)

I will base the prices on a very well known online seller, wouldn't name it but it starts with a T and ends with an N ;-) Prices are here for Germany, but similar elsewhere.

The price of the Tip Top Mantis Blue is at Euro 339, for that you get 2 rows, each row at 104 HP thus a total of 2 x 104 = 208 HP.
This means a price per HP you pay of Euro 339 / 208 = Euro 1.63/HP. Okay not too bad indeed and we all know this is one of the cheapest cases we can get, right?

Then the Doepfer - A-100LC9 comes at Euro 398, for that you get 3 rows, each row at 84 HP thus a total of 3 x 84 = 252 HP.
That means for this A-100LC9 you pay per HP the Euro 398 / 252 = Euro 1.58/HP. That's 5 cents per HP cheaper, i.e. 5 x 252 HP = Euro 12.60 cheaper than the Mantis, if that one would come in 252 HP.

Now that difference is minimal, I agree. But let's have a look into the Doepfer - A-100LMS9, that one comes at a price of Euro 718, for that you will get also 3 rows however at 168 HP per row, meaning a total of 3 x 168 = 504 HP.
That means the A-100LMS9 gives you a price of Euro 718 / 504 HP = Euro 1.42 per HP, and that's much cheaper than the Mantis ;-)
That is a difference per HP of Euro 0.21 * 504 HP = Euro 105.84, so the Doepfer is about Euro 106 cheaper than the Mantis (if there would be a Mantis of 504 HP)...

I don't mind if one mentions that a Mantis is a good choice but can we please agree that we would say then that getting a Mantis would be a good 2nd choice and the best choice (best as in cheap) is the Doepfer ;-) ?

Just pulling a leg here but wanted to make a point here at the same time :-) Enjoy modular and kind regards, Garfield.

Good breakdown, Garfield. What about the Pittsburgh EP420? I’m too lazy to do the math. Haha
Here in the U.S., there was short period where the Mantis was plentiful both new and used, and there were lots of sales so I think many of us have defaulted to that one. Also, I’m just fond of the aesthetics of it, though I know that is up for debate. I’m growing to love Doepfer stuff, and I may invest in one of their cases eventually.
Thanks for the price breakdown and food for thought.

Hi Farkas,

He, he, pity is though... the major shops here in Germany are taking a break from Pittsburgh Modular. In 2019 there were still dealers to be found where one could buy Pittsburgh Modular, however since last year most of those shops are putting an end to Pittsburgh Modular. There is here one shop left but that one doesn't carry at the moment the EP-420, so I don't have any price of that one. Oh and I found another shop but they also don't have the EP-420.

Now luckily I wrote down back in 2019 the prices of cases because I was comparing them at that time to see which one I should buy so I rely here on an old price (I will take the cheapest, I had two prices) for the EP-420 that was Euro 889 somewhere in 2019.

EP-420 is 3 rows if I remember well, each row 140 HP, so a total of indeed as the EP indicates 420 HP :-) That would make it Euro 889 / 420 = Euro 2.12/HP, ehm... Farkas...? That would make it the most expensive one of the whole lot ;-)

Of course, I agree, from an aesthetics point of view, those low costs cases from Doepfer don't look very fancy but if we just talk about a plain & cheap case, there is nothing cheaper (and quite good actually) than a Doepfer low cost case, being it the 84 HP series A-100LC6, LCB or LC9 or the 168 HP series A-100LMS9 (or LMB).

Kind regards, Garfield.

Pittsburgh cases are also good bang-for-the-buck. I have had Doepfer cases (back in 1999-2002), the Mantis (when I got back into modular in 2017) and now a Pittsburgh Structure 360 plus a separate 104 Palette. I love the Pittsburgh case... but it's also wildly larger than the OP was looking for, so I didn't mention it.

If you can find one used, I also really love the form factor of the Pittsburgh 270 case. But it's also very close to the same as the Doepfer LC9 case (just 18hp larger), and significantly more expensive.

Hi Shakespeare,

Are you saying you want to volunteer to provide us the USA prices in US$/HP per each rack? That would be lovely, thank you very much in advance ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield ;-)

Hi Shakespeare,

Are you saying you want to volunteer to provide us the USA prices in US$/HP per each rack? That would be lovely, thank you very much in advance ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield ;-)
-- GarfieldModular

LOL, OK!

Pittsburgh 420: $899 USD, $2.14/hp.
Pittsburgh 270: $649 USD, $2.40/hp.
Pittsburgh 360: $899 USD, $2.50/hp (but also portable, with a locking lid).

Definitely the LC9 0r Mantis are lower cost options, if cost is the OP's primary consideration.

Thanks for all your feedback everyone!
All very helpful and insightful. Gonna look into some other case ideas, draft some new rack ideas and get back to you all. Thanks again!

a mixer and an I/O module to go external though some of our members here do this without the I/O module, up to you, can't say haven't warned you to be careful then with DC signals ;-) I haven't even mentioned other utility modules yet, which would be the next step and only after that the more fancy looking modules (if at all).

@GarfieldModular, what would you recommend for an I/O module and other utility modules?

Hi Kieranjonesmusic,

There are quite a few, some examples I am myself happy with:

• Intellijel - Audio I/O, jacks input & output versus mini-jacks output & input, nice module, only con is that it doesn't have a headphones connection
• ACL - Audio Interface, XLR input & output versus mini-jacks output & input, includes mini-jack headphones connection
• Befaco - Out v3, either input or output module, includes jack headphones connection

All three modules I like to use, however the Intellijel one is the one I use most but I can't explain why because the ACL is excellent too. Only the Befaco is a bit simpler but cheaper, still using that one regularly too.

I hope this helps and kind regards, Garfield.

Edit: Removed typos.

EDITED Jan 8th 2021, 01:40

I'm one of those that doesn't bother with an output module -- just be very careful with the DC! -- but if I was going to get one I'd get the Happy Nerding Isolater. It would be better if had either separate attenuators for each channel, or another channel instead of an attenuator but it's still pretty good value, both in cash and hp.

Yep, the HN Isolator is one I'm constantly pointing people toward...especially if they intend to do any live work with their modular. In your own studio, you've got all the time in the world to chase down ground loops, noise, etc etc...but when you're on a gig, you don't have those luxuries. By relying on the transformer isolation in that, a HUGE percentage of the typical electronic crud issues get cancelled, and you don't waste time futzing around with trying to figure out where that annoying hum, etc is coming from. $100-ish for sonic peace of mind is well worth it!

Also, you can push the transformers a little bit and, like all BIG IRON in the audio path, you'll get a bit of a warm-up to fill out your signal. And, as noted, the venue will be very happy that you didn't pump some DC into their expensive-as-hell sound system!

the-erc: You should check out the Isolator's big bro, the OUT. Stereo ganged level over both the incoming main stereo signal AND a parallel stereo-in, which just begs for use as an extra FX return...with panning! Stereo metering, headphone preamp, more IRON and balanced TRS 1/4" outs. Actually, the ganged stereo controls make a lot of sense from a mixing standpoint; they're equivalent to your desk's Master fader, which also (usually) functions as a stereo control.

@lugia : checked it out, but for the same price you can get two Isolators, which would suit me better. I only have mono things in my rack, and it goes into a mixing desk which already does all the other stuff. The only "feature" I need is to stop worrying that I plug something in wrong, or forgot about some normalling somewhere, and accidentally cook the speaker coils with DC!

The closest contender is the Menu Qi Please Exist, but that's more expensive, discontinued, and only has unbalanced outputs.

I started with a 0-coast as my first modular then a Doepfer A100 Basic system. Now I have a lot more. Pamela New Workout is a fantastic module and can do a lot like clock, sequencer, quantizer of notes fed into it and so forth. Larger case is my advice- I ran out of space fast and now have 14u and that is almost full already.

as everyone else has said - larger case

these 'beauty cases' are great for specific purposes once you know what you are doing, but as a beginner you don't have a clue, to be honest they hint at a lack of research - particularly not reading a lot of the thousands of newbie posts (here, reddit and muffwiggler for example) - because almost every single one says GET A BIGGER CASE if the OP is asking about 'beauty cases'

with regards to the case - both the mantis and the lc9 are great value for money - one thing to watch out for is that if you think you might want to get high power consumption modules (metasonic, for example, or video) in the future is that the mantis has a lot more +12v available than the lc9 - -12v are the same iirc - for most people this may not be an issue, and you can always add an extra psu if you need

the only sensible advice to take in modular, is to buy a bigger case than you think you need, buy fewer modules than you want and grow slowly = there is no need whatsoever to fill the case immediately

just get the absolute minimum (sound source, sound modifier, modulation source, way to play, way to listen)
if you have money left over then the following modules (or similar) are very useful additions - links, kinks, disting, shades, a quad cascading vca (veils perhaps) - the last one may be (should be) your way to listen from above

from a learning perspective Maths is my modulation source of choice to recommend to beginners - it's complex, but only because it has a few different sections - but the illustrated manual is an excellent modular tutorial in itself - work your way through the patches in it a few times and you will know a lot more about modular synthesis than you did before

play with that for a month or 2 and try to work out what you are missing - disting is a great help here - and then buy another module (or 2 at most) and repeat and repeat and repeat etc etc

I have Doepfer cases and MDLR case. By far, love my 14u MDLR case. Here is why:

2 rows of 126HP for 1u tile modules: Intellijel 1u are super ace

4 rows of 126HP for larger modules that are HP pigs like Rossum and 4ms modules- I am looking at you wonderful HP piggies.

Two massive 85W power supplies- never had issue power modules even piggies like Rossum Trident and Mob of Emus. Funny the modular guy at Patchwerks I think mentioned someone had issues power Mob of Emus in a smaller case. Not me!

I bought smaller 6U case in the beginning and was a mistake! You will want the larger piggy do cool modules sooner or later and not many fit and leave room for the oh so critical support modules like matrix mixer, attenuator/attenuverters, VCAs, LFOs, sequential switch, etc.

I am now a fan of MDLR cases they fold easy and come in all sizes. Not cheap but hand made of nice wood and well engineered. They make a 9u and 12u case if you don't want to go supersize like I did. Plus knurlies fit easy. I had a hard time screwing in knurlies to Doepfer monster base case.

the only sensible advice to take in modular, is to buy a bigger case than you think you need, buy fewer modules than you want and grow slowly = there is no need whatsoever to fill the case immediately
-- JimHowell1970

Precisely. For one thing, users invariably want more modules...especially if they've put together one of these mini-builds and come to realize how limiting the damned things are.

I also think that there's an inappropriate "game" mentality going on with a lot of new builds...they all seem to have this unfortunate idea built into them that the builder HAD TO get this right on the first try, otherwise...well, I dunno. If you can build a Minimoog in a 24 hp Pod, perhaps you win all the Interwebz? Whatever the mindset, it's erroneous and dumb, since those of us who live with these devices on a day to day basis KNOW that you'll NEVER nail a build (any size!) on Try #1. Even WE can't do that!

Consider: when Walter Carlos (at the time, now Wendy of course) was working on "SOB", even HIS custom Moog modular wasn't truly "complete". He was still working directly with Bob Moog to get things to be more "instrument-like" with the instrument. And there were a lot of things we now take for granted (like CV latching, for example) that had to be developed over a span of YEARS. So in a sense, there's no such thing as a "completed" modular...even today.