I always thought that was an interesting set of chaotic modules. I can't say that I completely understand what they are doing, but Fourses and Sprott appealed to me when I was looking into them. I think they're getting harder to find nowadays.
The BIA is wild. It can do all sorts of different percussion, bass, and lead sounds. It's got a modern digital/FM kind of flavor, so I have to work to get it to fit into the analog sounds I usually focus on. Definitely check out some demo videos.
Yeah, that vactrol feedback loop looks pretty cool.
My tip for filling the remaining hp is to fill it with blank panels until you get to know the modules you have. As soon as you reach for a function that isn't available, that's the next module you should buy.
I actually have a separate private rack that I add planned modules to for this purpose. This has worked well for me.
With the RD8 and RD9, you are getting a much more limited set of internal sounds. I love the sound of an 808 and the RD8 sounds awesome, but I still need to process individual sounds externally. The TR8S has extremely reasonable approximations of all the classic Roland drum machines as well as sample playback capability.
I bought the RD8 mainly as a performance tool, to use the 3 trigger outs to interface with my modular. I have some decent 909 sounds in the Pique and FX Aid XL module, as well as the Blck_Noir, Crucible, and Basimilus Iteritas Alter. I don't really need the RD9. I can't say I'm unhappy with anything the RD8 offers at the price.
Aside from your issue with the lack of ‘true’ Roland sound, how do you feel about it’s capabilities to integrate with a modular setup?
-- jb61264
Integration with modular seems good to me. You have multiple assignable trigger outs as well as individual outs per channel to externally process your drum sounds. I think the stock sounds are pretty darn good, but you will probably want to process them externally either way. I think you might be able to run your external synths through the TR8S's onboard effects too, but don't quote me on that. You also get an FM synth, sample playback capabilities, and a refined live performance tool with decades of Roland's experience designing X0X interfaces.
The more I think about it, the more I want one. Haha
I’d say the TR8S is the best drum machine available. If I didn’t already have an RD8 and some modular drums, I would buy one in a heartbeat.
Have fun and good luck!
Thanks so much @GarfieldModular. You are far too kind.
I am moving more and more in the Berlin School direction. As I assemble some pieces I'm really happy with, I will be glad to share them with you. I'm also starting to collaborate a bit with a drummer who is a huge fan of Jaki Liebzeit and the 70s era of German rock and electronic music. Hopefully some cool experiments will come out of that.
My friend in Leipzig has tried to convince me to play in some electronic music venues or festivals the next time I visit. I would feel silly if I looked like Rick Wakeman surrounded by synths on stage (haha), so I would probably just take a small portable rack if I ever decide to do something like that. That's probably a few years away though.
Seriously, thanks for listening to this demo. I'm pretty passionate about that era of and style of music, so your feedback really means a lot.
well - not meant to be condescending - forthright perhaps, but not condescending... at least you find it interesting!
possibly to do with the fact that I'm in my 50s from the North West of England, have lived nearly a 3rd of my life in Europe and don't take shit from people, even if they are paying me.. and you aren't!
-- JimHowell1970
Such a welcoming place...
This has been fairly common in my experience since this time last year. Waited just over a month for a package shipped USPS from one state away. I think Control may even have a disclaimer on their website about this exact thing, at least they did for a few months. I’m even having shipping headaches with FedEx often as well.
DeJoy f’ed up the post office, and the best most of us can do is be patient. 99.99% of the time, it’s not the merchants fault.
Hang in there, and good luck!
Thanks @TumeniKnobs. Totally agreed on the Rev2. I love that thing. On this track, I combined a Rev2 pad with the VC340 voices and strings, and then faded in a split signal going through an external effects pedal chain.
As far as sections and transitions, that's definitely the "work in progress" part of this track and my project as a whole. I'm just experimenting with a bunch of raw semi-unrelated parts and seeing how I can fit them together like a jigsaw puzzle. In the end, I hope to make all of the transitions more natural. I'm used to one-track, one-take improv stuff, so it will be fun to practice mixing techniques and EQing the finished collage of multiple tracks.
Good luck with your project!
I’ve been enjoying Warm Star’s The Bends as a 10hp cv controlled vactrol matrix mixer. I’ve only had it for a short time, but I’ve gotten some fun results.
I've been tied up with work since August, but I have started a new project. Definitely (and probably obviously) inspired by Tangerine Dream/Froese/Schulze kind of stuff. This one is still a work in progress, but thought I'd share as-is.
Gear: AJH VCOs, Doepfer SEM, QPAS, 4ms DLD, SynthTech E352, Lo-Fi Junky, Milky Way, Data Bender, Prophet Rev2, Behringer VC340, Warm Audio Jet Phaser, guitar, etc.
I thought there were some kind of trippy headphone moments in this one. A friend of mine may add some drums eventually.
Thanks for listening! Hope you enjoy. No worries if you don't dig it.
...and Bandcamp if that's your thing:
I have looked into the Erica Dual VCF. Sounds great. Finally just ordered a Doepfer SEM. Thanks again!
I actually bought the QX at the same time as Quadrax. It was pretty cool for patching up some generative kinds of sounds, but it started collecting a little dust and I sold it as I became focused on a more deliberate hands-on approach. I'm not familiar with the CVilization. I'll check into it. Thanks for the suggestion.
I was using the slew limiter function on Disting a lot at first and upgraded to the WMD Time Warp. I'm very happy with my choice there. I use the Time Warp in most of my patches.
Thanks for the great suggestions @Jonau. I have REALLY wanted a Subharmonicon since it was released. I wonder what modules I could add to what I already have to get a similar experience. I can get subharmonic divisions with Maths and I have a few sequencers already. Hmmmm... I'm going to look deeper into patching a makeshift Subharmonicon. Great suggestion.
Also, the Sarajewo looks awesome. I have a powerful delay in the 4ms DLD, but something about the Sarajewo is very attractive to me. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Am I right in thinking that you could take the rhythms from the zularic and mix them together to get different rhythms out at bus A and bus B dependent on which way you toggle the switches?
-- greenfly
Hi @greenfly. Yep, that's exactly what I use the Short Bus for. I have multiple gate sources that I combine in that module and switch rhythms or add fills by hand. It can lead to some really fun results. And it's a passive module!
@jb61264 Haha. Honestly, you probably make far more innovative music with your 6U Rackbrute than I do with this monstrosity. Lol
Yes, I use Pam's to sync everything. For the most part, PNW is my "start/stop" button and it serves as a master clock. I don't always take advantage of everything it can do but it's probably the most important part of my rack. I mult a few clock signals to the sequencers to keep everything in sync, and use the Moffenzeef Mito, Zularic Repetitor, and Branches for weird clock multiplications, divisions, etc. to trigger envelopes and drums.
I don't enjoy menu diving which is why you don't see O&C or Disting EX. I have a Disting Mk4 than comes in handy, but I've mostly invested in modules that specialize in what my favorite Disting algorithms offered in limited form. I'm mostly using it as a side chain compressor or tape delay now. O&C offers a few things that I would like to have, so that might be something to consider.
Warps is my most recent purchase. I haven't settled on a favorite setting yet. I do have Parasites and I've been having so much fun just trying all of the different settings. The binaural doppler panner, crossfolder, ring mods, and frequency shifter have been fun. I've mostly used it on drums, and need to spend more time with it. I haven't even tried out the delay yet, and it's supposed to be really good. I'm shocked Warps doesn't get more love. It was an instant keeper for me, but I have semi-weird taste I think.
Yeah, I was really trying to channel pink years Tangerine Dream there.
-- FredFoxtrott
Mission accomplished! :)
Haven't shared much about my rack build progress since January I think, so here's a quick update for anyone interested.
Long story short, I started making music again in late 2019 after about 15 years away. Used to have a bunch of old hardware synths, some fairly desirable, and got really burnt out with computer recording so I just sold everything and didn't even miss it for a long time (except for my old Moog Rogue, dammit I miss that thing). I stumbled across some interviews with Genesis P. Orridge and Richard H. Kirk in late 2019 and got really inspired to make electronic music again, mostly just as a conceptual art project exploring repetition, noise, improvisation, and glitchiness. Got into modular because I always loved synths and had some disposable income throughout 2020. Tried a bunch of different modules and sounds feeling my way into eurorack-land, bought, sold, learned what I loved and hated, rearranged, added, removed, bought, sold, and rearranged again... and finally settled into a system I enjoy using. I've got just enough desk space (and cash) to add another 104hp and that should be enough for quite a while (famous last words, I know).
The sounds I really enjoy working with the most come from the years 1973-1983: pretty much simple primitive analog subtractive synthesis and recording techniques in the vein of Phaedra/Rubycon-era Tangerine Dream, Tin Drum-era Japan, Cabaret Voltaire, Depeche Mode, Klaus Schulze, Michael Hoenig, Ashra, Fripp & Eno, early Human League, post-punk and goth... you get the idea.
I don't really gravitate towards granular, "west coast," or digital FM. Basically, I could make the kind of music I like with relatively simple equipment.
So, the rack pictured is what I already have with a few things included that I will be picking up shortly. I am very happy with the layout so no complaints about that. I have some ideas to fill the empty 48hp eventually, but I'm not in any hurry and would welcome your ideas if you think there are any modules that you think might suit the direction I'm increasingly heading in. I already have polyphonic sounds covered with a Prophet Rev2, a B-company VC340 string machine/vocoder, and Roland JV1010. I've got sampling covered with an MPC, so no real need to add that to the rack. I've been window shopping the SSF Vortices "character mixer," WORNG Soundstage stereo field filtered mixer, and Xaoc Devices Sarajewo analog syncable delay. That new WMD Kraken looks pretty sharp too. But I'm totally open to suggestions.
Lord knows I don't NEED any of this stuff, but it's always fun to hear others' perspectives. Thanks in advance for anyone who read this far or has suggestions. Have a great evening.
Great work @FredFoxtrott. Well done. I especially liked the 1400 moody interlude. Really enjoyed your performance.
Thanks for sharing.
I know most modular artists want cv over everything. I’m finding I like a better hands on interface at the expense of cv control, which is probably why I’m such an AJH fan. I love that Dual Contour Generator so much. Even though I wish it had cv control over rise and fall I’m considering getting a second one.
On first glance, I think I would be tempted to remove the York passive mult and the 4ms buffered mult in the third case (you already have the buffered Links mult in case #1 and you could spend $20 for a few external splitters), move the 4ms Rotating Clock Divider from case #2 to case #3, and insert the Nin in case #2.
I think the idea was to keep the Wave Swarm within the AJH 14hp footprint. CV over 12 LFOs would have made the module much larger, and might not have been all that musical with the clashing of the individually timed "beating" LFOs. More of a set it and forget it kind of module.
Thanks for putting so much effort into this @GarfieldModular. I read the full report for the SEM and listened to the sound examples. I have been interested in this filter since I first discovered eurorack. I'll definitely add this filter to my collection before the end of the year. The Moog Ladder Filter and the SEM are exactly what I consider perfect examples of what a synth should sound like.
Thanks again for all of your work.
AJH Wave Swarm?
The Acid Rain Chainsaw would be an oscillator solution that covers the detuned supersaw or supersquare very well.
Oh yes, working out power consumption for individual cases can be a pain when you use the combo-rack method. Got 5 cases at the moment. I tend to duplicate the huge rack and then delete all modules down to the one case I want to check...
-- Jonau
This is what I have done in the past as well.
I have multiple cases too, and have just extended the rows and hp of a single Modular Grid case to match my full rig.
My complete system is 2 x 12u x 104hp racks side by side (208hp) wide so I have built my MG rack to be 210hp wide with 2hp blank panels representing the space between racks.
Any sound examples from other artists that represent what you mean by "dark drones"? Maybe we can help you reverse engineer a similar sound to what you are aiming for.
Edit* I think I know what you are going for, and the E352 will probably be a great tool, but it would help to hear some examples.
A normalled jack is different from normalizing, people should be careful not to interchange the two terms. Normalizing involves altering the gain of audio, normalling involves behind-the-panel connections between circuits.
-- snowtires
Very true. That's why I attempted to use the correct terminology in my first response. I actually thought about making this distinction in my response as well, but figured it was an honest mistake.
I don’t have Veils, but I believe that would be summed to a mono mix of inputs 1 and 2 on output 2.
In the case of your VCA, you could run a single audio signal into your VCA but use two different envelope shapes to each VCA and then send the outputs to separate effects/filters/etc for stereo treatment, maybe?
It just means that the input is connected to both outputs unless something else is connected to the second input, breaking the “normaling”. For instance, I have the NE Quant Gemi where the first input is normaled to all four outputs allowing me to run the same pitch cv to four oscillators, or I could run the first pitch cv to two oscillators and plug a second pitch cv into the third input and connect outputs 3 and 4 to two more oscillators.
I'm actually a little shocked that the modular/computer USB interface thing hasn't taken off more. Expert Sleepers makes great stuff, of course, but I thought some of the other manufacturers might come up with some innovative designs in that realm.
I don’t see Rings here but think he uses the double Grids for drum sequencing.
That sounds really wild. I'm not sure how I have never stumbled across the Polygogo before. I'm going to look into it a bit deeper.
Thanks for sharing your demo!
Os was here yesterday!!!
-- JimHowell1970
Ha! So he was. Just saw that thread. He seems to be the most responsive and active designer/builder in the industry. I applaud that wholeheartedly.
I believe Os from Expert Sleepers is very responsive to customer concerns. I know he is active on the Mod Wiggler forum. You should probably try to reach out to him for some guidance.
While a complex oscillator would offer a lot of variety, I would say that Dixie II+ is a good choice for an analog oscillator within your price range.
re: the rave era as I just missed it being in the States and a little young too. From the outside looking though in there's definitely something special about that time so it's cool connecting with it somehow.
Re: the rack, it's been fun focusing down to 208HP, which I find more manageable, and trying to really solve the problem first and foremost of making good, interesting, and evolving tunes (vs long running live sets which had been the goal for awhile).
-- troux
Yeah, I'm in the States too, so I guess I meant what passed for the "rave era" in the Midwest during the early and mid-90s. It was a nice time and place even if it wasn't the British second summer of love rave era. Haha.
And, I think I mentioned I've been working on songwriting and slower tunes a bit too, steering away from the full improv minimal, glitch, and noise stuff. I think the recent quality of your tunes definitely reflects your focus.
This one really takes me to a certain time and place. You’ve definitely captured the vibe of the rave era. Well done as always.
It’s really interesting to watch the progression of your rack as well. You get a lot out of your well curated choice of modules.
That’s usually how I use it. I suppose you could tune to your preferred pitch on the center setting and have one octave up and one octave down for four different voices.
I use Noise Engineering’s Quant Gemi for octave switching. Handy little module.
I do still find that my hands are the best CV control I've got...
-- ModLifeCrisis
Had to look up your “Perfect CV Controller” video on YouTube, and couldn’t agree more. I was just trying to explore this idea in a different thread. Personally, I think the human side is where modular artists find their own artistic voice. I know this is a gear forum, so any discussion of style, artistry, or philosophy is quickly shut down in favor of, “Just buy XYZ module.” I thought your video was an important consideration of something that new modular enthusiasts should ponder just as much as case size, budget, voices, and utilities. Thanks for exploring that idea. Just subscribed to your channel. :)
Also, good luck with your Skylab build.
hmmm - does it really matter?
I tend to use modulation instead of wiggling knobs myself, I only have 2 hands and at the end of the day it really just comes down to taste, doesn't it? - I want to move this knob 30 degrees and back every 10 seconds - just plug in an attenuated lfo - does exactly the same thing
-- JimHowell1970
I think it matters. The amount of error in a hand-tweaked knob will vary over time while a decent LFO will be relatively stable over time. I think we can sense that error (if not hear it), and that error is what I think contributes to interesting sound/music. They say guitar playing is all in the fingers. Keith Richards' feel will never be as precise as Steve Vai, but I know who I'd rather listen to. Of course no one else cares, but that's what makes something interesting to me.
Barring random and chaos modules, which can be unmusical in some uses, If we all have the same precise utilities, the same LFOs, Maths, Kinks, etc., there are only so many original combinations to make an interesting sound. What ultimately differentiates any of this music then? I would say the human error is what differentiates it all. Separating into utilities-are-more-important-than-oscillators (or vice versa) "camps" sort of takes away from the OP's fun thought exercise.
I don’t think I’ve claimed a “camp” as far as oscillators vs. utilities or anything like that. Or at least I didn’t intend to. Just responding to the OP on what I like as far as sound sources. A Dixie or Minimod analog oscillator is not going to give you the same sound or experience as an E352 or Akemie’s Castle. What comes further down the audio or cv chain is definitely where the interesting stuff is, for sure, but having a good understanding of exactly what sound will come out if I turn a knob is an important choice in choosing sound sources. What may come out of the Recombination Engine on its own or with a broad array of utilities may be interesting, but unintentional.
Something that is of interest to me in this discussion is the amount of cv vs. hands-on control that modules have. Is the machine doing the tweaking or is the human doing the tweaking when it comes to getting a great sound?
Using a standalone hardware sampler that lends itself to modular is going to work a lot better than sampler purpose built for modular.
-- Ronin1973
+1
Yeah, my aim was to create a more non-subtractive modular groovebox-style synth and supplement it with a Sequential Prophet Rev2 for poly stuff. I found myself wanting some Moog-ish sounds somewhere along the way, and now those are my go-to modules. Really impressed by them.
The new update to the E352 added some great options to an already great wavetable module, and the Recombination Engine is fun and slightly unpredictable (I still haven't wrapped my head around the wave splicing without an oscilloscope). I mostly use the Panharmonium for rhythmic drum resynthesis and as a vocal effect.
*edit Check out the AJH Sonic XV filter for something that is not strictly Moog-ish (even though it was inspired by a Musonics/Moog design).
