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Quadrax and Zadar for envelopes and more since you already have Maths. Triple Sloths or the Zlob Diode Chaos for random/chaos. VCAs are kind of a personal thing. I like the FSS Gristleizer VCA for a distorted character and the AJH MiniMod, but you might want to add some quantity with something like Veils or the Intellijel Quad VCA. For 8 channels of stepped modulation I definitely recommend the Voltage Block. I love that thing for giving me that last little bit of movement that I need.
Have fun and good luck!

Yeah, I'm thinking envelopes, random, and probably VCAs. Maybe a Voltage Block too?

EDITED Jul 18th 2021, 19:58

Hey, thanks TumeniKnobs. I appreciate that. Most of that stuff on Soundcloud is just me rolling tape and seeing what comes out.
Here's another one-take looping improv thing I did this morning. I wanted to see what would come out if I flipped the "Amen" break a little bit. Same set up as last night, but added the Erica Sample Drum, Quadrax, and FSS Gristleizer VCA to the mix.
Have a great weekend.

Hey, thanks GarfieldModular. I've been playing around with looping minimal elements and just seeing what happens. As always, I appreciate your time.

Haven't shared anything in a while. Here's a little lo-fi one-take looping improvisation using a Sequential Prophet Rev2, Qu-Bit Data Bender, Make Noise QPAS, and the 4MS Dual Looping Delay. Hope you enjoy. No worries if it's not your thing. Have a great weekend.
https://ciernyvlk.bandcamp.com/track/juniper

https://soundcloud.com/cierny_vlk/juniper-4-71621-425-pm

EDITED Jul 16th 2021, 20:57

every time someone comes along with their idea of what's going to make them a SUPAH-STAAHH and I or someone else points out the deficiencies in their line of thinking. And this has been going on for a long time; I can recall an incident back in the pre-browser days on USENET where someone popped up on one of the groups, bellowing about his brand new MORPHEUS, and how this brand new MORPHEUS was going to be THE THING that was gonna take him right to the top!!!

Yeah, right.

Fact is, this argument that a given device will vault you into stardom is a load of crap. It's the inverse corollory to blaming your equipment for your own musical shortcomings. Both notions are equally false. Your musicianship depends on YOU...not a Magic Box or whatever.

Now, yeah, sure...you might BE capable of grabbing the (somewhat cursed) brass ring of getting big in music.
-- Lugia

I have never once seen anyone in this forum (beginner or veteran) suggest the idea that a modular synth is their ticket to the big time. Is that even something that people still want? I'm sure some folks have a dream of becoming an "influencer" or whatever, but I think people are smart enough to realize that an esoteric and prohibitively expensive medium and genre of music is not going to lead to adoring fans and red carpets.
This is an odd assumption about our new member. Why can't we assume that this is a fun hobby for most people? Not everyone has some Nietzschean "suffer-for-my-art-martyr-to-my-LFO" complex haunting them. Some people just want to make a 4/4 beat and dance around their room as an escape from the day job that is undoubtedly funding this hobby.

Jack (and any other new member reading this), have fun with your new hobby. Be aware that it can be very expensive, and you will find yourself scratching your head trying to figure out some tasks that are simple in a hardwired synth/drum machine, and you will likely need to do a lot of research and re-planning to get an instrument that gets you to the sound in your head. Also be aware that you CAN achieve the sound in your head with modular and it's incredibly satisfying. I took a cross-country road trip a few years ago, and the journey was just as fun as the destination. Same thing applies when building your rack. Above all, have fun.

If you would like a bit more guidance, maybe you can share some examples of the type of sounds you are hoping to create, or if you already have any other gear that you can use as a supplement to your rack. That way we can point you in the right direction.
Good luck!

I'm with Wishbone. Keep researching and have fun experimenting. Most of the folks on this forum just don't want to see anyone waste a bunch of money and time to arrive at an unsatisfying outcome.
You can most definitely make an EDM focused system as Ronin highlighted. I don't think you have quite nailed it with this initial iteration though. Your best bet though is to start small with just a few modules, and let your needs dictate the future direction of your rack. It's fun to build these proposed dream racks, but it would be a terrible idea to sink a bunch of money into the whole thing without test driving a few of the parts first. I've mentioned in this forum many times that my first rack plan was almost completely different from my current rack. I bought a few modules to start with and just kept experimenting until I couldn't do what I wanted, and then researched the modules that would help me take that next step. Then I bought the next few modules, and so on. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
Have fun with your idea, but be prepared to go back to the planning stages often.

I agree with Jim on a bigger case and a bigger mixer, whether matrix or end-of-chain. Personally, I think the layout is pretty good. It makes sense to me anyway.
If this were my case, I think I would keep Rene and eliminate Marbles to add an analog oscillator (like a Dixie or Rubicon) and wave folder. But everyone has different needs and ideas, so have fun with it!

Fair enough. The reason I ask is because you will see many of the people who have been doing this a long time recommend against building an 808 or 909 in a rack due to both cost and workflow. This is good advice. When it comes to performing techno, it's really hard to argue against an external X0X sequencer. In my opinion it's the best option. Everything is already hardwired but still tweakable, and you can still integrate it with your rack via the clock, triggers, and individual outs.
I have taken this hybrid approach myself. I use a combination of the Behringer RD8 (the only Behringer piece I own, but I love it) and some Eurorack drums and multiple Euro sequencers. I initially tried to do what you are planning but found that the performance workflow was severely limited. Building around an external drum machine really encouraged a hands-on approach. There are a few mind-blowing YouTube videos of Jeff Mills performing techno on an old TR909. Check them out. Some people like Elektron drum machines but I never gelled with their ergonomics. You won't have CV control over every parameter of the 909 sounds, but you can add things like Basimilus and WMD drum modules (or oscillators and LPGs) to your rack as a supplement so you have control over other drum sounds.
If you are just getting started building this, allow yourself some room to change direction with your build. You may find that what you think you would enjoy workflow-wise is really awful. Take your time and only add a module or two at a time.

Okay, here's a serious question: Why not just get a Behringer RD9 and save yourself a LOT of money? You would have all of your 909 sounds, the X0X sequencer and three trigger outs to trigger the Basimilus, envelopes, etc. all for about $400.
Is there a reason you want to do this all in the rack?

Hi AndyGuelcher. You mention that you would like this to be a "performance" system. How do you envision performing with the modules you have selected so far? The WMD mixer and Voltage Block will probably give you some hands-on tweaking, but you may want to look into some extra utilities like switches (Acid Rain Switchblade is a fun one), an OR logic module like the Low Gain Short Bus so that you can combine triggers to tweak and combine beats on the fly, some of the SoundMachines touch plates (or the Make Noise Pressure Points), and my favorite: Future Sound Systems Makrow.
If you are really interested in creating a performance oriented system, you will probably want as many interactive and hands-on modules as possible. That is kind of how I have developed my own techno performance rack.
Also, the Javelin is really cool but I think you will find a need for a lot more envelopes and/or LFOs. I would get rid of the 2hp modules and Javelin to add something like a Quadrax or Noise Engineering Pons Asinorum. The Plasma Drive is taking up an awful lot of space too. Maybe consider the Erica Drum Mixer (with integrated compressor) and one of the Noise Engineering 4hp distortion modules. In my view, that would be a better use of space. This is still a fairly small system, and you will need to maximize every single hp.
Hope that gives you some ideas to consider.
Have fun and good luck!

I enjoy the Malekko Voltage Block, a 16x8 CV sequencer. Very fun to use. It is 20hp, so it takes up some space, but I've found it very useful for modulation and tweaking arpeggios on the fly.

Erica Sample Drum is a fun option.

That MSCL compressor looks pretty cool. Also, the Erica Drum Mixer has a nice sounding compressor too. That's on my list for mixing my modular drums.
I had initially tried to do everything in the rack too, but found that there were a lot of sounds I was going for that I just couldn't pull off effectively without expanding into some external hardware (and guitars, but that's another story).
Take care, and let us know if you crack the code of the Drexciya sound. :)

Hi abstractrhythms. I'm a huge Drexciya fan too.
I really like the organ mode in Rings. You can get really close to the sound of "A Forest" by The Cure and that early post-punk vibe. You may be able to pull off some of the Drexciya polyphonic chord sounds with Plaits in chord mode or the Music Thing Modular Chord Organ firmware on their Radio Music module, but really it would probably be a good idea to invest in an external polyphonic synth to get better control over chords. If I remember correctly, Drexciya supposedly used a lot of Roland and Yamaha FM synths. You might be able to get close with something inexpensive like a Roland JV1010 and midi controller...
Mylarmelodies had a cool video about using sample and hold modules combined with chord modules to get "chords" that follow the melody of your song in a sort of Drexciya-inspired way. Take a look on YouTube for that.
I have really enjoyed using the Behringer RD8 for my 808 sequencing and sounds (all due criticism of Behringer aside).
Have fun and good luck!

I recently recommended the FSS Makrow to someone on this forum for just this purpose. It has 6 CV outs that can be configured to your preferred voltages (+ or -) and then you can morph between these "macro" settings with the turn of a single knob (the knob is also CV controllable if you would prefer to be hands-off). I think it's a genius module.
I think Endorphin.es may have just released a similar module too, but I don't have any experience with that one.

I believe he conducts all of his business via this Reverb storefront:
https://reverb.com/shop/gstormelectro

Check out the G-Storm Electro filters. I have several of them on my radar for an authentic Roland sound. Mutable Instruments Ripples also has a Roland-ish feel.

You probably won't need Scales with the quantizing abilities of the Disting and Bloom. I may be wrong but I think a recent update to Pam's New Workout also has some quantizing capabilities. Maybe someone else could chime in on that.

The image hasn't updated yet so I looked at your rack via your profile, and the answer is... maybe.
What are your overall goals for getting into modular? What kind of music are you hoping to make? Do you have any external gear that you will be combining with your rack?

This looks like a collection of fun modules, but your first build suffers from "sexy module syndrome" which is a common mistake. You are missing VCAs and don't have enough utilities to get too far with this. Take a look back through some of the other starter rack threads to get an idea of what is often recommended to overcome these barriers (Links, Kinks, Veils, etc.).

Future Sound Systems Makrow - 8hp, white, and has multiple CV outs for a single large knob. Super handy.

My recommendation for a small versatile ambient setup would be the Synthesis Technology E352 Cloud Terrarium or even Mutable Instruments Plaits.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the visual side is important too. As far as some of the hard to find and discontinued stuff, try to figure out exactly what those modules are doing internally and buy individual sound sources and utilities to recreate that. Therein lies the beauty of modular.

My understanding is that the circuits are identical, only the aesthetics are different.

First, in reference to your other post, I think you will discover why so many people stick with the bigger/more popular names in the modular community... because they are available. Many of the modules you have chosen here are discontinued (Cjwemann, ZVex, Error Instruments, Folktek) and will be very hard to source. Even if you find them on the used market, you will likely pay a $$$ premium versus something that is readily available and will perform a similar task. Sure, the cheaper or more plentiful modules in production may not have the same niche or "cool" factor, but the point is the music, not the name on the faceplate.
I'll take a look at your arrangement and look for missing utilities etc. later today. Some of the other folks here will probably have some common beginner guidance on that.
Have fun and good luck!

Thanks, I'm checking FSS out as we speak. What are your favorites from them? I love hearing recs of companies I haven't heard of yet because it seems like of the thousands of modules shown on this site, people are almost afraid to get anything that isn't one of the top say 20 brands.
-- JX5JX5

The Recombination Engine is probably my favorite FSS module. It's a unique take on an analog triple oscillator. All of their stuff has an interesting approach though. The Gristleizer filter and VCA are pretty fun too (especially if you are a fan of Throbbing Gristle). Schlappi Engineering makes really cool/noisy modules too. The 100 Grit filter is on my radar for later in the year.

Right on. Sounds cool. Be sure to share some of your tracks here.
Yeah, I wouldn't set any artificial boundaries. Just do your research and find what works best for the sound you need regardless of analog/digital. The Error Instruments stuff is pretty wild. For what you are doing, take a look at Future Sound Systems stuff too (I'm the forum's resident Future Sound Systems fanboy. Haha).
Have fun and good luck.

The Erica Black Octasource is on my shortlist for next purchase. Give it a look.

What kind of music are you making?

My advice is to figure out what you need your rack to do, and then buy the best version of the module that does that thing.
Analog... digital... doesn't really matter as long as you can accomplish your musical goal. If you need a resonator like Rings or something, it's gonna be really hard to do that with analog.
Have fun and good luck.

Hi Matteo. I am a big fan of the Make Noise QPAS filter. It has a lot of potential for stereo ambient explorations. The 4ms Dual Looping Delay (DLD) is a lot of fun too.
Have fun and good luck.

@klodifokan, GarfieldModular is a very helpful and supportive member of this forum. Perhaps Garfield wanted to offer some assistance, but did not have any specific recommendations for replacing the Verbos delay. Did you have an actual recommendation for the OP's question?

I don't have any direct experience with the others you mentioned. I spent a fair amount of time watching and listening to demos of many complex oscillators and found the Furthrrr Generator to be the best sounding to my ears. With the added flexibility of the strong zero VCO core as a possible "upgrade," it's the one that most appealed to me. If I hadn't picked the Furthrrr, I probably would have gone with the DPO. That one seems to have a unique sound. Let your ears be your guide.
Good luck and have fun!

The tuning knobs don't have much resistance so a slight touch can knock the oscillator out of tune, but I haven't noticed a slight detune or anything when both are tuned to A. I do make a lot of dissonant music though, so "close enough" is usually fine for me. Haha.
I don't have the Strong Zero VCO Core installed. Mine is still all analog, and I've found that it's a well-built and stable module. As with anything in Euro, YMMV.

I've had good luck with the Furthrrr Generator. Tuning is a little fiddly, but not too bad. It's fairly stable once tuned.

Thanks for the input, gang. I've got some more research to do.
I'll post any interesting experiments here.

Just curious how you all are using external instruments (specifically electric guitar) with your rack. I don't recall seeing a thread about this recently, so I figured I would start one.
I recently got back into playing guitar (sort of a post-punk/shoegaze style), and have a Doepfer A119 input and plenty of signal processors, but no good output module. Curious how everyone else is getting instrument signals in and out, connecting your rack to guitar amps (?), effects loops, pedal interfaces, etc.
I'm open to any interesting sound design ideas and recommended modules.
Thanks!

Hi Nicholas. In my experience, it really does come down to personal wants and needs. If something is advertised as "lo-fi," it's probably going to sound and react "lo-fi", and it's up to you to decide whether that is right for your rack. Do as much research as possible to avoid spending money on things that aren't right for YOU.
You can usually get a good idea about the quality and reliability of very specific modules over on the MuffWiggler forum. I don't really think there are inherently good or bad manufacturers or modules. For instance, I like some of the Endorphin.es stuff, but many users have had trouble with noise on some of their 6hp modules. I have had no such trouble with my Milky Way 6hp fx. The Furthrrr Generator by the same manufacturer is outstanding and fairly well regarded. It may be a matter of consistency and firmware on their digital modules.
I do tend to shy away from DIY modules that other individuals have built, probably unjustly. The clones I have gotten from After Later have been great, but I'm not sure I trust DIY from a random individual. That's my personal preference. I know there is a semi-well-known Mutable clone builder (who shall remain nameless) that many have had trouble with. Not so much module quality, but actually receiving their modules from this particular builder. I ordered a Triple Sloths clone from this builder and received the runaround and claims of "lost in the mail" until I opened a dispute. Many others have had the same experience with this builder. I would lean towards supporting the original designer and manufacturer instead of buying too many clones. Of course, space is always an issue so the clone thing is a personal choice.
Overall, the only "bad" modules I've purchased have been the ones that I didn't research fully. They did exactly what they were supposed to do, but that specific sound/interface/function was completely wrong for my setup and workflow.

Hi Garfield. Maybe check out the Erica Octasource? That is the LFO module that has interested me.

https://wigglehunt.com/?query=Moffenzeef&condition=&stock_status=in_&price_min=0&price_max=5000¤cy_code=150&sort=price

Ah, OK. I'm not that familiar with the Bitbox or the Robaux, but they look fairly powerful.
For ambient sounds, I would probably be looking at adding more random modulation like a Triple Sloths and a sample and hold, or something similar. Marbles may be another good addition, but Bloom might achieve some of the same things as Marbles. A way to mix CV signals, like the Happy Nerding 3xMIA, would probably be a fun addition.
I also like low pass gates a lot for plucky percussive sounds. They can be fairly inexpensive and can act sort of like a filtered VCA. A nice wavfeolder could give you a new range of tones too.
I also live in a place where there aren't many people interested in synths. Not even my friends... haha.
Welcome to MG! Have fun and good luck.

Yeah, without knowing what kind of music you are doing, or if you have any other gear, it's going to be hard to guide you on anything too specific. I'm in agreement with Jim that this doesn't look like much research was conducted prior to building a playable instrument.
Fill us in with more details on what you are trying to accomplish with this. How do you see Eurorack solving a problem?

Copy and paste the URL to your rack here so that we can see which one you are looking for guidance on.

I forgot to mention, I find that the Moffenzeef modulation and utility modules are really interesting and unique if you can still find them somewhere. His voices and noise sources are a little more limited in my book. I have the Moffenmix, Mito, and Deviant and love them. I got rid of the Muskrat though. It was one of those things that I just couldn't fit in anywhere. All of his stuff is weird, but not always in the most useful way. YMMV.

Alright, here's my take. I left your modulation sources alone for the most part and concentrated on voices and mixing. I've been researching similar rack ideas and noise sources myself.
I replaced Manis with BIA. BIA is so powerful and Manis ultimately seems a little limited and same-y to me. It's just not quite as versatile to me.
The MCO seems like a completely overlooked oscillator. It's got PWM, digital noise, and a sub-octave out in 6hp and under $200. I would use this and the Patching Panda Shuby linear feedback shift register to create your own percussion with the Patching Panda Punch v3. That could negate the need for the Crater.
You already have a PLL with the Interstellar Radio (the only module I regret selling), so the Doepfer PLL might be a bit redundant. I added the 100 Grit filter and Dark Matter feedback mixer just because they are so gnarly. You could probably eliminate the 100 Grit if you want to just use the Serge for filtering. You could probably also eliminate the 3xVCA and add a Bastl Waver for gnarly wavefolding since you have the VCAs in the Patching Panda, Befaco, and Dark Matter. Always a consideration with noise racks should be the X1L3 modules (Shard, Underwurlde, Wreckage). I've got the Shard and it's impossible to tame.
I would have a lot of fun with this rack. Let me know what you think.

Yeah, shipping from Thailand took quite a while over the holidays. It was worth the wait though.

Hi @nickgreenberg. Thanks for your thoughts here. Some great things to consider.
As far as the Spotify thing, BT's thoughts and experience with AI are presented in about the last 15 minutes of that podcast. I've read through a few things about Spotify's "Creator Technology Research Lab" but there isn't a whole to of good info on what exactly their goals are with generative music. I'm not sure if there are any academic papers on the topic and with Spotify being a private company, I'm sure they are keeping data, algorithms, and strategy pretty close to the vest. In general though, it seems like Spotify is a data company masquerading as a jukebox... and they get to keep the money. I can't say that I am a big fan of BT's music, but he definitely knows what he is talking about in regards to music technology and the future.

Regarding drum modules, I have a small subsection at the bottom left dedicated to drums and drum sequencing. I also incorporate an external drum machine here. I've been working more towards synthesizing my own percussion tones with the Patching Panda Punch v3 and low pass gates, and so it makes sense for my workflow to have a drum section integrated within the larger rack. Your recommendation of waveshapers/wavefolders will come in handy here. In fact, I have switched out a few modules since I initially posted the rack image above so I can include a wavfeolder. I haven't decide if I want an Intellijel or Instruo yet. I will definitely try the audio rate switching with the Switchblade. I still have some time to tweak my remaining 104hp before I commit to anything.

And finally, your recommendation for submixers is one that is essential for everyone (and especially noobs) to consider. I have pondered that exact question quite a bit and have ultimately decided to adhere to Jim's insistence over multiple threads that I add a larger matrix mixer (as opposed to smaller submixers). I reasoned that each level of submixing that I incorporate limits the amount of control I have over single sounds at the end of the signal path. If I submix drums, what happens if I decide I want to add reverb to a single snare hit or send just hi-hats to a delay? I could probably use a few more buffered mults, but I have a considerable amount of external passive mults, so signal splitting isn't much of a problem. From a performance perspective I reasoned that a dedicated mixing section worked for me. With the Toppobrillo, Erica Fusion and Drum Mixers, and the Doepfer matrix all in one area of the rack, I can perform with a dub approach that makes sense to me. I can also use the matrix mixer along with the 3xMIA to mix CV in interesting ways, so it seems like a winner. As much as I love the WMD Performance Mixer, I had not initially planned to go this big with the rack, and so I ended up with multiple mixers. I'm actually pretty happy with the feature set and sound quality of the mixing section I've cobbled together. I do have the Moffenzeef Moffenmix (not pictured here) that I can always add back in if I find a need for more mixers.

Thanks again for your thoughts. These are all very useful ideas to ponder.
Take care and enjoy your weekend.

@troux will probably have some good advice for you here. I've tossed around the idea of adding the Erica Bassline to my rack. It sounds really good. As it is though, I already have the inexpensive Behringer TD3 (16 step sequencer) and haven't been able to justify the cost of the Bassline just yet.
Have fun and good luck.

What about the Bastl Dark Matter? If I remember correctly, that’s sort of the heart of that module but I haven’t looked into it too much.