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I would get a Buchla Skylab, Elby Serge, Make Noise Shared Black and Gold System, Doepfer A100 system
and Moog Model 15 modular for that wall of Eurorack sound and have plenty of cash left over for custom add on modules.
ANY modular can do arpegiators that is basic thing anything can do that has a sequencer. You also want a good sampler.
Oh and don't forget to get a keyboard controller while you are at it. I like the Korg MS 20.
The Serge, Buchla, Make Noise, and Moog modular will have all that you need. I think it would be wise to find a modular store to visit and try gear out before spending cash. Join a local music group and make friends with modular gear. That helped me a lot and I am still treading cautiously since I don't have tons to blow on the wrong gear.
Also are you planning to play live at all? You probably also want a lunchbox portable setup as well.
Here is what you can do JUST with the MS-20 and Make Noise Shared System:
It can make some killer drums without a drum module too.
Thank you for making that a finnished build for the tip top mantis case.
You have helped me to understand a little more now, I see now that the sequenser i chose is mostly used for drums and maby a base line. and i have too little room to do much more, I will build this and learn how to use it, you gave me alot of good information that will help me to grow.
I understand the signal path a little better now, thanks to you. I will keep the audio interface for future build, i know i will need another bigger case soon. The module for adding fx, i will keep just for that bigger case too.
But if i get hold of all the modules you added i will make it so. This will give me a good box for making analog groove.
Thanks for the mixer ideas. Will order them for this build.
The Roland TR-8S is nice, i can get that one, but i also want to check out the kicks in euro-rack format, i have never seen a eurorack wall in real life. so i dont know the sound yet. but i hope it will amaze me.
If you got time to tell me more about what i can do to make another more insane system, another more interesting system with another more interesting Sequenser, and what other option i have with the eurorack format, I dont mind if there is 300 cables to manage. I want to dive in on the deep end. I am able to spend 50k on this over time, and then some more, but i will invest in getting more understanding first so i dont end up with to many modules i dont need. I will make one step at a time. I dont mind if the modules are complicated with many menus.
So if you want to build a Pittsburgh Modular Structure EP-420 Desktop kabinett size system on this site and explain it to me more in depth i would be forever happy! And thank you again for taking time to enlightening me!
I find all of these interesting :D Verbos Electronics , Rossum electro- music modules, Gatestorm Steady state fate, Pitsburg modular, Endorphin.es, Orthogonal devices! ER-301 makes me drool.
And to have functions for making vocal changed in any way shape and form, to resample them.
I might be asking alot haha. But music is what i use my life on. I am not taking money with me in heaven, so i might as well use them for sound creation now that i am here.
What modules is good for making Arpeggiators and simmilar task´s like that ?
Sure thing Exigen! I am sure that our resident expert Lugia will chime in as well with his thoughts. Have you considered getting the Microbrute 2s package that has the Arturia Microbrute plus case/power supply? That would be great way to go and you can add a few modules slowly and see what works for you. Modular drums are EXPENSIVE!
The Phenol and other kits are nice and affordable before launch into a full 50k setup. My buddy has such a wall but it set him back a small fortune! Plus he has tons of other gear that he bought that he never uses now.
Hello Mixxalot, thank you for the advices, The Tanzabar looks nice. and been considering a packaged modular system.
I have now taken a look at the Modulor 114 and Phenol systems. I am sure they are nice for a start. But i am 100% sure this is something i want to do, to build a big system. The Mantis case from tip top i feel already is too small, but i will keep it for portable use. I am thinking to build a case on the size of, Pittsburgh Modular Structure EP-420 Desktop kabinett, and i like the Doepfer 100 monster cases.
I want to have a full wall. so i have more options in the future for designing unique sounds, regardless of cost.
I intend to go all in, and expand for the next 40 years or more, as long as i live and are able to be creative.
I allready want more Sequenser options.
We have zoom function in Rack View for single modules. And a corresponding shortcut.
Hover over a module and press z to zoom. The idea came from joem in the MG thread on Muffwiggler.
Modular funtime! Mainly based on the Rings easter egg (love that formant filter) and Warps. Korg Electribe 2 are on drums, Minilogue on bass and Fabfilter Twin 2 makes the melodies that enter after a while.
Idea is (for now at least) to be integrated into Logic X for texture building and melodic stuff.
Aiming for sound design flexibility and also on the simpler side since a decent piece of my composing work is having to do rewrites...I know it'll be a task to recall stuff, but I don't want it to be a complete nightmare.
So, specific questions would be, is the 2hp midi enough to run a basic rack through Logic and have some flexibility annnnnnd are there any other modules you might throw in there that are a little left field that would be fun sound design tools with whats already in there.
General suggestions on anything else welcome as well
First of dude thanks for the input. Nail on head as far as space, as far as room I had thought of 2 rows.
What would you do with the free 4hp. one of those 2hp strum and a utility?
Møffenzeef Dialup looks cool and your right about the mixer.
live tool, effect are ok, add some distortion think you can get some character its a cool little mixer, Aux's are a bit noisey but to me thats not a problem. I had thought of replacing the pam with aLittle nerdy? gota wait for one.
whats your thoughts on digital mixers?
The Lyra-8 is a pure joy. I send it straight through a wobbly Waldorf 2-pole so I can gate/or mod the env/cut/gate of the 2-pole. Lyra as I'm sure you know has 2 envelopes. slow and slowerr..
Dude thanks for the thoughts, nothing is set yet apart from the skiff and the Jomox.
This could be another possibility
Brilliant design, this...concept is very sound, you have a really clear idea of how this should work for your purposes. Pretty cool, pretty neat.
About the only things that nag at me are:
1) The Cwejman VCF. Spendy and large. You might want to do a bit more looking around to reduce the size and certainly the cost. There's a lot of interestingly fubar filter concepts and topologies out right now, so it's sort of a smorgasbrod, but yeah, this could be a bit better.
2) Putting the Mescaline in the rack with everything else. I kinda like this instrument as the unitized control-surface/generator/mangler it is in of itself, both in functional terms and looks. Plus, there's the possibility of more space to play with in the cab...and at the very least, you'll want to add some other Folktek stuff to tandem with the Mescaline as well as to augment it, plus go from Dupont pins to 3.5mms. My instinct would be to put the reassembled Mescaline to the right of the cab, then run your other Folktek stuff in the right end of the cab on rows 2 and 3 to get some easy patching and interchange between everything pin-patchable. That sort of exchange might also come in handy for adding one or two other pin-patchables, such as Bastl's Softpop or bitRanger.
The problem I see here is that this is all happening in a pretty small space. The Phonogene swap: good. The Jomox addition: also good. But then, there's the issue of how to cram in enough percussives into the remaining space. One thing I would do is to yank the mult as well, and rely on inline mults and/or stackable cables to split outputs. That gets 4 hp back, but the result still only leaves 14 hp for this, and the Pamela's can deal with eight trigger-ins. True, a few of these can go to the 0-Coast and Pitt, but you still need something percussive and, presumably, glitchy to get things moving.
Instead of just the Noise Eng. Fettucinius Marsala Lorem Ipso, I suggest adding one other nasty percussive in the same realm: a Møffenzeef Dialup. When you see the desc on it, you'll get the point. Fits nice with the NE Colosseum Autostrada Eruptum.
One other thing that is a little itchy for me, also, is the mixer. That little A&H is getting pretty close to being overrun, sounds like. If you get a wild hair to go to a larger mixer, I would suggest also trying to find something without onboard effects. There's a couple of reasons for this: first, those onboards are not very tweakable, so not only are they not too finely-adjustable, you can't play them...your Lyra-8 should explain what I mean there. Second, they're not exactly the best things; they tend to not be the best quality in sonic terms, plus they lack a lot of character, since they're designed to please a wide user base and not merely electronic music types who will also want the processing to be part of the overall creative process. And last, they muck up one or two AUX sends in terms of the mixer being built to use them, instead of being structured to deal with external processors.
Have a look at eBay at some point, and you'll find that there's a lot of very suitable, higher-quality, and bigger mixing desks on the used market right now, while people are jumping the analog ship for digital. This was dumb with synths, as we know, and it's just as dumb with most anything else. Take advantage of this and get some sweet dimes-on-the-dollar action!
I bought a Erica Synths Midi Clock v2 from @Phaelam and have nothing but good things to say:
-Shipped damn near immediately, arrived 2 days after payment
-Timely and responsive communication
-Good deal
-Great packaging- Double boxed, double bubble-wrapped
-Module in exceptional condition, like new
Don't hesitate - 5 stars. Top marks. Top gear. 10/10. Gets the stamp. Approved.
Hello folks; just want to confirm if this will work how i think it will work ;) Already started collectin'.
Here is the baby:
I'm already in process of DIY'ng the case. Power will be multiple L-1s
There are basically 3 main sections of this -
Soundscape - Mescaline + OB + rainmaker + Alters - this will be my soundscape pads/background progressing drones etc.
Drums - NE modules + Mescaline's matter driven via pair of 101-102 (for main perc stuff) + Sapel/Turing in controlled random percentage.
Melody/Music - Sinfonion as global control of pitches/progressions. Mangroves into natural gates with quad modcan envelope into chord progression of sinfonion. 2x 301 in stereo 4 individual voices. Sequenced via 2nd pair of 101-102.
Modulation - 16 outs from ipad with lemur via shuttle control, 12 from 2x cv trinity, 8 from 2x o_c.
Control - frames, planar, sinfonion, ipad, channel, and NE corssfader are all playable live.
Pam's the master clock.
Why no VCAs? - 301 has integrated vca. Mangrove Air is a VCA, Natural Gate is a VCA. I'll mostly run my modulation as automations/Lfos/FM and for some crucial stuff i can push it out of Lemur.
Mixer will be external. Did i miss anything super crucial :) ?
Hello everyone,
New to the site and was seeking some feedback on a Make noise skiff I have been planning. Its based on the the system Concrète, replacing the Phonogene with a Morphagene, the MMG with the Jomox T-Rackonizer and adding the Loquelic Iteritas + Pamela's NEW Workout for mostly rhythmic percussive noise elements.
My current home set-up consists of a 0-coast, Pittsburgh modular sv-1 Blackbox, Digitakt, Lyra-8, which all travel through a
Allen & Heath ZED10FX Mixer.
I'm thinking of the new rack as a standalone sound design tool but also integration with my current semi-mod gear.
OK...so, apparently, we have these posted here now. Not surprising, given that MG is the de facto modular synth database for all intents and purposes these days.
The problem I have, however, is this: is this real, or is this Uli Behringer teasing something in order to get the Internet to do his market feasibility study for him?
I'm not going to mince words here: I have serious misgivings about this entry into Eurorack by, as per Behringer's usual modus operandi, doing a significant intellectual property lift and touting it as 'innovation'. And perhaps, yes, the ability to get these pretty decent looking System 100m clones at $100 a pop is an 'innovation' of sorts. But when, exactly, will we get them? That's the question. Or even moreso, will we get them, or is this just another hype ramp-up, winding up the synth public up while having a larf and going off to build more substandard MI gear and plundering another saged audio firm.
Case in point: the Model D. It's just started shipping...finally...about effing time, actually...after how many years of wind-up? And why was that, actually? After all, cloning a Minimoog shouldn't be all that difficult with a modern-day robotic board production line. Bob did it with actual workers and such, and built over 10k of them, and they're still making th...oh...wait. Yeah. They're still making them. Might be a tiny, wee, itsy-bitsy IP issue there. Ya think?
Fact is, I have memories of the very first major stink Behringer stepped in, waaaaaay back around the early 1990s. Wasn't smart to clone dbx's gear that they still made. Even less intelligent to reproduce the same manuals. But really frickin' stupid to forget to proofread them and delete all of the references to 'dbx' that got left in (and brought up in court).
If they can do this and make it work, and do this with the same component quality and QC that Roland put into these back in the day, OK. But at $100 per complex module (these ain't something basic, folks...ask Malekko, who did the builds on the System 500 modules in cooperation with Roland), I'm just thinking that certain corners might get cut a tad.
Some will likely disagree, but I have a not-too-good feeling about this.
PS: interesting about how Behringer's been hyping the Neutron...but when you look at Sweetwater's website (probably the prime Internet retailer for music gear in the USA), you see zilch about it. Nothing. Not even a preorder or cursory mention or jack-else. And they did do a lot of pre-hype and pre-order for the Model D, but my bet is that they kinda had a bad taste left in their mouths in Ft. Wayne after B. couldn't deliver for nigh-upon two years for...whatever reason. About which I, of course, have my suspicions as noted above. But if Sweetwater felt kinda burned about being made to hold Behringer's water for that long, I don't think they'll bite on the Neutron until Uli can dropship a few pallet-loads of them first. And that, gang, makes them potentially even less jazzed about thirteen new Behringer twiddlys being amped-up by Uli's 'Tribe', especially something more niche-like such as Eurorack modules.
Quite honestly, this has a slight potential of putting Sweetwater off Eurorack; they've only recently gotten a clue about it (I recall having a discussion with a sales engineer about why SW just might want to stock multiples about 18-19 months back; they had no clue about why anyone would want a bunch of jacks with no electronics attached to them), and if Uli causes some sort of debacle with them over Eurorack, there will be ripple-effects. Guarantee it.
So, Uli...if you're reading this, either do this right, or don't do it at all.
Wanted to see if anyone has looked at the Arturia Microbrute 2S package vs the Korg MS20 package for moving into modular builds. I like that for 1k you get a rack/power supply, kick ass synth/sequencer in the Microbrute 2s and patch options to connect to Eurorack modules. But the MS 20 is recommended a lot here as well.
Thoughts? I figure can add some exotic VCA/VCO/VCF, clock, slew utilities and couple exotic LFO or synths to the rack.
Ok so I had a chance to finally get my hands on an MS-20 and love it! I had a blast patching it recently. Not crazy about the Microbrute and since I have a Korg SQ-1 for sequencing my Make Noise 0-coast, the MS-20 is on my radar as an affordable patcheable synth to use.
I did find that you need to have the English Tear Module to use for CV between the MS-20 and Eurorack.
Also look at the MFB Tanzbar line- these to me sound amazing for EDM and house/techno drums. I have a Volca Beats and using a friends Elektron MD but rather than buy expensive modular drums have been looking at a Tanzbar unit down the road.
I would rather have something like the MFB Tanzbar or MFB Tanzbar lite than the Roland TR machines but that is just my preference.
Not enough 'sex appeal', I suppose. It's sort of plain-looking, doesn't jump out at you, isn't festooned with knobs and jacks and lights...none of which, frankly, it needs anyway. And really, I'd rather have a rackful of sleepy-looking stuff that can tear peoples' heads clean off instead of some sort of control-panel acid nightmare/fever dream that looks great but sounds....eh.
[Attempt #2...god, I love what accidental keystrokes can do in Windows. Feh.]
OK...some things were removed, notably the Audio Interface. It doesn't work like you think it does. It's just an analog stereo out (which you have already) and a stereo in (for which you don't have the space in this to process incoming audio). I also took out the effect insert module; again, it's not going to be that useful, plus I added some effects (notably a Juno 106 chorus clone) to better suit this build.
I shifted things into their respective signal paths, also. The 'monosynth' is up top, 'drum machine' is down so you can easily access the sequencer like a playing surface and get at the knobs for on-the-fly tweaking.
As for the 'monosynth', there's now two VCOs. Running just one often results in a thinner sound, but with two, you can do some slight detuning and generate that big, harmonic-sweeping sound for heavy bass. One can also sync with the other for weird lead timbres, too. I set up the modulation section so that the Disting is in position for multiple usages, and Maths provides control curves for the two VCAs, through which you can feed two different waveforms from the LFO. By doing that, you can cause things like delayed LFOs, LFOs that rise in amplitude over time, etc. Added a pair of AR envelopes for the VCF and its internal VCA...that module is a Moog Rogue VCF/VCA clone of sorts. I went with that because it's going to be a bit dirtier, which will punch the monosynth signal out better.
'Drum machine' is the Circadian Rhythms, then there's a passive mult to allow you to distribute a pair of triggers to other points in the build. Drum modules are an 808 and 909 kick (more BOOOOOM), a Delptronics module + expander which has some 606 and 808 characteristics, 909 clap, 808 maraca, and 909 hats and cymbals.
After that, there's a submix for six of the drum modules. Yes, there's more than six, I know...but certain ones you can run through this stereo submixer, then mash via the MSCL stereo comp/limiter and pound the HELL out of the sound that way, while still sending a couple of other drums, plus the monosynth's VCA output, through the main mixer up top. The 106 Chorus can then either be used as an inline effect for the monosynth or a mono drum voice before mixing that into the other stereo input on the main mixer. The first stereo in, of course, is where you'll want the drum submix (and MSCL, if desired) fed.
Yes, the main mixer is possibly overspecced on inputs. Trust me, you want that. Anyway, just feed the stereo out from it to the Output, take your headphone feed and stereo line-outs from that, and that should do it.
It's a relatively simple build, mainly owing to space constraints. And frankly, before going all the way in on this (especially the drum part), you might want to take mixxalot's advice and look into some more prebuilt gear. I would suggest checking out the Roland TR-8S (the new one, not the original TR-8) for drums; by doing that instead of going with much of what's on the bottom row, you then open up a LOT of options for the modular which, with the Circadian Rhythms, you've kind of got 'locked' into a specific usage at present. Besides, the TR-8S samples, has the 808, 909, 606, and a few other Roland kits standard (no 'plug-outs'...ugh), multiple assignable outs, and works like the 909, more or less. And it's about $650-ish over here. There's a couple of other things that come to mind, too, such as the MS-20 Mini + SQ-1...one of Aphex's longtime mainstays. You might also consider losing the CS-1X...it's sort of 'vanilla', doesn't really rip through a mix very well, which is typical for Yamaha's analog modelers. Pads and such are OK with it...but other things do those as well or better, and more besides.
Have you considered a packaged modular system like the Phenol or Modulor 114 before dropping 50k into a full blown Eurorack to see if you like patching wires and can get it to work for your workflow?
I too lust after gear but started small with just a Make Noise 0-coast to see if patching is for me before blowing 10-50k in modular gear. You already have tons of gear so maybe a few small modules may work or small modular system like the Make Noise Black and Gold Shared System?
Yes, I would also like to know why the poor rating... AFAIK there is no difference in sound and function between the MK I and MK II. The MK I currently has 4.14 in rating...
I added the Intellijel audio interface2, and Intellijel uJack, that covers it so i can record in my daw and use headsett in the eurorack box, and now possible to use a 2nd headsett from Presonus mixer when working live. and headsett number 3 and 4 from apollo if needed when i record other music people in studio.
Thanks, now i am interested to find out what else i need to expand this world in the most interesting ways, for designing new original sounds.
Be it deep SUB bases that makes the ground shake, leads, pads, etc. Good modules that are generating sounds. this is what i look to add now, and more drums.
My rig is Mac, Apollo uad2, Logic X, Studio live 16.0.2 PreSonus, Roland MC-303 groovebox, Yamaha RM1x, Virus indigo access, Yamaha CS1x, Prophet-6 Sequential, Elektron Analoug Four, Digitak, Octatrack MK2, Mackie Big Knob, Speakers are Adam A77X, JBL, Bheringer, DJ gear is from Pioneer, vinyl, cd, mixer. I have a Shure SM85 Microphone. I use a Zoom H2 for sampling/recording as well.
I know how to use the equipment, i started from Commodore 64, Amiga 500 to make music, my first pure Techno machine was the Roland MC-303 in 7th grade.
Today i am 38 years turning 39 on april 24. On the 25 of april the items in the picture arrives, marking the start of my next 40 years of making Progressive! , Techno, Acid, Trance, House, Club music.
Artists that has inspired my music making are many, this are a few of them: Tony De Vit, Mac Zimms, Ricardo Ferri, Carl Cox, Silvio Ecomo, Umek, Mauro Picotto, Cari Lekebusch, Ben sims.
Recently i discovered Colin Benders in this Eurorack world.
And i strive always to have my own sound :)
I understand it has to sound good from me, and that the equipment is not everything.
But damn man, already for me before i have even one module! this is heaven and a candy store mixed with a toy store for me :D
I feel like 7th grade when i walked out of that store with a mc-303 in my hands, all over agein.. That kick sound is still the greatest, and i understand that euro rack is the way to go for me now that i can afford it.
Thank you for your reply, and any more inputt from you would be much welcomed! :D
Right...one key, I've found over many years, to making a synth behave like an instrument is that if specific aspects are grouped by their particular specialty (generator, modifier, controller, processor), then the flow around the instrument becomes clearer and more intuitive. This, in turn, changes up how you approach the instrument; instead of having function 'A' all over here and 'B' down that side or such, mingle everything together as far as playing function, but make it cohesive as far as actual functionality.
Another thing that will help here a lot is fixing the output stage. Right now, there's a couple of manual mono mixers, one of Intellijel's new sorta-stereo ones, and the output isolator itself. I really strongly suggest making the output some sort of stereo performance mixer, something that also allows VCA control over the strip levels at the very least, as well as panning if you can swing it. Shift the mono mixers to use as submixing into the final stereo strips. This way, the mixer becomes something of a playing surface, allowing you to better slot various instrumental signal paths within the cab into a cohesive stereo-out mix.
As for the AJH VCOs...one thing that will click that sound in even tighter is to get some sort of Moog CP3 clone. The CP3 circuit, if cloned properly, is actually not 100% clean; it introduces subtle nonlinearities into the outputted result that actually emphasizes certain euphonic partials. It's not distortion per se...and a bit difficult to describe unless you've ever gotten your hands on a Moog device with that particular mixer circuit (such as a modular, or the Minimoog).
Now that I've got a clearer idea of what's actually going on here, let's see...
[Had this all typed up, and MG logged me out in the time it too to write it up. But I have my own word-processor, so...take THAT, rotten, evil login script! Ha!]
OK...you will notice that there's definitely some things missing from your original build. I did tinker with this a good bit, but I kept your primary functionalities as you'd posted them pretty much intact, even improving on the ergonomics of them. The entire order of this got a lot of reworking, too...but it now has that 'subsystemic' flow that I think you'll find makes it all easier to program and play, especially with the module swaps.
Row 1 has your buffered mult and adder/mult to the far left, with the AJH glide/noise module there so that your can easily impose slewing on CVs as needed. Also, with that positioning, you can easily place the slew limiter into a CV path, then send that back to a mult and distribute it that way, giving you a couple of nice options. The Minimoog VCOs were dropped to three (which is like the real thing) and the CP3 clone from Manhattan was added. This now replicates the VCO-mixer part of the Minimoog signal path...and there's more coming about that, so keep reading.
Digital-type sources are on the right end, then the Mixup was paired with the Quad VCA so that there's a lot of possible mixing/VCA control routing options present, given that the PDO and Shapeshifter have multiple outputs and there may be different ways you'll want that working for different situations. Oh...and a mult. You needed a passive one.
Row 2 starts with modulation sources: one Disting, your o&Cs, Batumi, Maths, Quadra. I then added three Ladik ADSRs with normal and inverted outputs, which eliminated the need for the attenuverters and added three desperately-needed 4-stage EGs. An Intellijel uFold is next for waveshaping/distortion, but with CV control over waveshaping in up to three stages. Then a SE 5089 VCF...and this is the rest of the tale on the Minimoog signal path.
That filter is a pretty effective clone of the 4-pole Moog transistor ladder lowpass VCF. If you feed this directly from the CP3, you then have the actual Minimoog audio signal path, up to the final VCA. Because of this, you get the nonlinearities and euphonic...something...that the Minimoog proper tends to have. Mind you, Minimoogs had a lot of variation to them because of component tolerances and such...but this is now a pretty spot-on redux of that audio path, hence the ability to remove the fourth VCO. The two new components (especially that 5089 VCF) will more than make up for its absence.
Your Polaris is next...and now, you have two excellent VCFs of two 'flavors'. Quad VCA next to mix the VCF outs...or you can just as easily send them through the LxD, which I relocated right beside it. Or both...? At any rate, the Quad VCAs were also set up this way so that you could both use them as exponentials for audio level control or in linear mode for CV levels, and split out your mixing duties but have one or two VCAs left for linear work.
Row 3: the other Disting, placed here to work more with the quantizing modules. Your drum/bass modules come next, then a stereo mixer to sum these down and get a good stereo placement so the Bitbox has a nice stereo image to screw around with. Note that all of this is now directly over the sequencing/control section for easy routing.
Effects processing is next: looping delay and Z-DSP. This closes out that row...but notice, again, the placement: these processors are directly above the mixing/output section, again to make routing easier. Plus it allows for some routing options with ease that we'll get at in a bit.
Row 4 is control. MIDI interface, then the Pamela's, Eloquencer, Varigate and Bow Tie. The idea here is that, with things laid out like this, you can easily send in a sync clock via MIDI or USB, use that as a master, then the next several modules get to tamper with that incoming clock as needed, all in a nice line so that if you want to do some screwy things with that clock, it's easy to do. And as mentioned, the placement of all of these is right below the quants, drum and bass, and Bitbox so that all of your functionality of these things in tandem are right there, simple to route and use as a unitized whole. The Bow Tie was placed down on the end of this so that you can now easily use it either for routing CVs or audio, whatever you feel like. Plus, anything that needs to go to the VCOs can now just flow right up the left side of the cab, keeping those patchcables out of the way. Much cleaner.
The Triple VCA is in place so that you can use it to VCA submix a single strip going into the Toppobrillo Stereomix. That thing there is going to make a huge difference. It allows CV control over audio levels, panning, and AUX sends on four inputs, which also have some routing tricks such as a cue send. This also has a single AUX send (mono) and return (mono or stereo) loop, so it's possible to parallel-process part of the overall mix through quite a few things.
Your MSCL is next, to put it in place to easily dynamic-process the overall stereo mix. But since the new Happy Nerding OUT has two stereo inputs, you can do some parallel processing work with that, or send in a separate signal path, or...well, a lot of things. That aux stereo feed has a pan control to adjust the stereo image, but it's fixed-level. The main input, however, is variable, so you actually get to use that OUT as a final stereo summer, in addition to being stereo balanced outs, a headphone (1/4”) amp, and output-level metering.
So, yes...I yanked several modules out, some of which you'd mentioned but a few of which I felt were not really well-implemented, or could be done better in a smaller space (pulling the Malekko distorter in favor of the uFold, for example). Overall, though, the idea behind what I'd cut was to maximize what you'd described as the 'mission' for the build, and I think that you'll find that this arrangement actually makes it more intuitive for those, as well as suggestive of some other possibilities not really clearly shown in the original layout. But the main split here is to get the 'synthy' bits up top, and the 'controlly' bits down and all together on the lower tiers.
And given what the 'pulls' might bring on the used market, you might be able to do this for close to zero-extra. Or maybe even a little left over...I did come in at $432 less than your figure, after all!
Wow... thanks for your honest thoughts. I'll try to give more context on how I use it and my current issues with the rack. It's a real rack, btw... not just in ModularGrid. I built it up slowly over the past 2 years, but I feel lately like I've been driving in the wrong direction for a while.
I use the Eloquencer to sequence melodies/bass lines and sometimes drums, but I primarily sequence drums with the Varigate 8+. I sample various sounds from the rig into BitBox, which can take 16 trigger inputs. Sometimes I run 1 cable per channel from the VG8+ into the BitBox, and other times I run 1 channel into BowTie and then use random CV to route that to one of 8 channels on the BitBot. That's just drums/perc.
Yes, I do have a "phat" Minimoog clone building up in here with the AJH row. Call me nuts... I just love how they sound. That mixer has 3 inputs too, so sometimes I use it with the other VCOs.
The flow is intended to generally be sequencers on the left/bottom, then going from left to right / top to bottom, oscillators, filters, envelopes, and mixing. Are you suggesting rearranging them into clusters of self-contained mini-groups?
I don't really do ambient stuff, and so Telharmonic/Rings are probably the first 2 sound sources I'd give up in here. Maybe they'll make room for another filter.
My problem is that I hate to feel too constrained. I admit it's a bit of a hodgepodge, but I like to have options.
Your intuition is correct. In fact, I'm not even touching this one; you need to rip at least half (or more!) of the signal sources out, for starters. This isn't a big build, and there's a hodgepodge of ten oscillators of various sorts (that I see on first glance!). Then there's ten channels of CV/gate sequencing, and another FOURTEEN of just trig/gate. But at the same time, just two filters...? If the idea here is to create a 'phat' (which I pronounce 'pee-hat', myself; shows you what I think of the term) sound, there's other/better/cheaper ways to do that. Or if you're trying to do something West Coast and crossmodulate everything...again, other/better/cheaper ways exist.
Step back and take a few breaths. Delete this. Start over, and start smaller. You're trying to toss things that look/sound cool into a box with this and figure that that'll result in a usable instrument, and it just won't. Seriously, go back and study some others' racks (synthesists who know what they're doing, basically) and spend a bunch of time studying classic modular systems that are still classics to this day because they were done right decades ago. See how and why they work. Then start again, but either smaller or with a smaller palette of modules (Eurorack, or also perhaps MU), or both, and then grow toward something like this incrementally. Build it up in subsystems that make sense as groups of modules. Use that grouping to place things in a sensible flow pattern.
Admittedly, this seems like it's easy. And on MG, it is...which may be the sole flaw in Modulargrid. Otherwise, it's a brilliant resource, but you have to use the whole resource to get the real use out of it. It's not Legos with knobs and wires; there's a real point to how and why modular synths come out in the ways they do, both good and bad builds. And the latter can and should (because this is 'expensive shit', to quote Fela Kuti) be avoided.
You say you have a studio rig. What's in it as far as instruments (ie: synths, drum machines, sequencers, etc) already? This is going to be a major key to what should go into a modular rig and will help determine what sort of focus the build needs to have.
Second: I hope you're not expecting that the equipment is the thing that will make the music work. Truth is, that's on you...not what gear is at your disposal. A modular of any workable size is a hefty expenditure, both in money to outlay for it and time spent in getting how you use it sorted out. You can have a Synthi 100 at your disposal because you had the $50-100k to drop on it...but if the talent needed to make that spendy thing really sing is lacking, that's not a wise purchase.
Last: there are a LOT of machines to 'make techno music with'. Fact is, the people who started all of this (the house guys in Chi, the Belleville 3) were working with crap they could afford from want-ads, used music shops, and pawn shops. That's what shaped how techno sounds to this day. If you don't have experience with electronic music gear on the basic levels, such as with older gear, patchables, etc and thinking starting with a modular is the 'big secret'...guess again. It would be like trying to go through driver's ed in a $500k Ferrari.
@mopoco for gifting me a trigger man in great condition and kindly did he add some extra value. @tumulishroomaroom for sending over here a verbos module, also in mint condition and at a very reasonable price.
Hmmm...sometimes I even amaze me...OK, got the additional module expenditure down to $986, a $238 drop. And strangely, in the process I upped a bit of the functionality, although the initial build was a bit better fit, I thought. New version's in the same position in this thread, so have a look...but here's what was changed:
This version changes the extra VCO (Plaits) to a pair of more conventional VCOs, a Ladik and a Noise Reap uBermuda, which is a somewhat weird thing that can go into internal feedback behavior, sort of like sending a VCF into self-resonance. Went to a single VCA/mixer with those also.
Quad LFO was changed to a TAKAAB 3LFO, which offers two waveforms in a staggered timing setup. ADSRs are now Ladiks, both with normal and inverted outputs, plus I was able to squeeze in a dual AD Ladik to give you two more envelopes. I switched out the Ladik dual linear VCA for a Noise Reap pair. Eowave Poles now handles attenuation/CV/inversion, and the Tiptop Fold also offers a suboctave generator, which wasn't there before. Same sort of 4-pole transistor-ladder lowpass VCF, albeit Doepfer's version which loses the dual input mixing...but the Fold has that now, so nothing lost there.
So...yeah. Filled cab, again. Functionality a bit different and, like I said, upped a bit in a few ways. And closer to the $700-ish budget line you quoted.
As to what to get first...hmm, that's a puzzler. I sort of build things as a 'unitized' set of subsystems, which is how I'm used to modular gear working (and, for that matter, a lot of prebuilt stuff). My suggestion would be to just add along as you can, and if you can kick things down a little more with used purchases (there's loads of used modules out there if you look), then cool. Otherwise, the only other way to reliably knock things down further is to go with a bunch of DIY kit modules...which is an option if you're OK with some soldering and assembly, but otherwise, this is not too shabby.
One last thing, and I don't mean to be picky but since I have your attention...if there are any cheaper alternatives to what you posted above, that'd be helpful to know. Thanks again!
Hi Lugia,
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond here. Much appreciated. If I could ask for one more favor...since I don't have that amount of money to spend on this right now, can you tell me which of the modules you added that can get me started. Maybe $800-$900 worth.
Thanks
Easy: start with the ES-8 and the Metropolis. That way, you can lock the Metropolis up to the DAW's sync clock, and the Metropolis is perfectly usable with the SE-02, which will allow you to start learning all of the tricks that sequencer has up its sleeve. I'd then fill out the bottom row as shown (and move the ES-8 into its place up top), allowing you to get used to the trigger sequencer, drum modules, and the performance mixer next. After that, any order that feels right should be just fine.
Yeah...I can see why they sold it. They'd not really built much out of it...added a bunch of sequencers, but not built out the voicing compliment much at all. I did fix it up, but the budget I hit was $1224, which overruns about $500 over your line. But as a result, I was able to turn this into a pretty respectable little rack. Vide:
Now...to make this work (and assuming that I'm right that this was built in a Pittsburgh EP-270), you're going to have to change one thing about the case itself. Remove the feet from the 'short' bottom, and reattach them so that you can lay this down on the larger side, what would normally be the 'back'. Basically, you're going to make this into a sloping horizontal cab instead of a sloping vertical.
And the bottom row is why. Notice: all of the control surfaces are now at the front of the cab, on an easy slope, which makes them...well, controllable controllers. The percussion sequencer is left, so that it can also work as the primary clock, for which I put the Brains (sequencing controller for the Pressure Points) next to that, and, natch, then the Pressure Points. Then the Rene, since it has its touchpad controls for changing things on the fly, and the Rosie mixer/crossfader is over at the right side so that your line out can go right off the side of the cab.
Top row: added a passive mult to do some CV splitting from the controller row or the Lifeforms' MIDI converter, or both. The next two were in the original build, but are mainly voicing, so they went up top along with a Plaits (the new version of the Braids) to double the Braids, then a Quad VCA because this original build was almost devoid of useful VCAs, plus it can also submix the sources.
Middle row is mainly modulation and modifiers, save for the Erica Pico Seq on the left, poised to use the Percussion Sequencer's clock. Added a Quad LFO for some extra basic cyclic modulation, then the Maths for the...well, Maths things, and a dual ADSR envelope for the VCF duties. A TriATT is there for offset voltages, attenuation/inversion of modulators, then a simple CV-controlled distortion module starts off the modifier chain. Next up, a very serious, very vintage character VCF: G-Storm's replica of the 'pre-lawsuit' ARP 2600 low-pass, the infamous Moog ladder copy. Beefy VCF...was very lacking. It can also handle two inputs for a bit of submixing. Then the Rings and DSP at the end to pass through to the Rosie.
Yeah, this thing was a mess...it seemed like whoever had it before had something of an idea of where they wanted to go with the build, but either couldn't get the resources together or, just as possibly, got utterly confused and gave up after adding too much of not exactly the right things. But this is a major improvement...as well as a very usable instrument with the additions and major structural reworking.
Thanks to @SpaceyJimbo I bought a Phonogene off him and he answered all my questions politely and quickly (my first time using this marketplace), was completely reliable and fast with delivery! Good price too would happily buy from him again!!
Takes time...you can't just roll up to Synths-R-Us with a panel truck and a briefcase of cash (well, you could, but what would be the point?) and haul off everything in one shot. It's good to have a routine schedule for acquiring gear, but trying to build Alessandro Cortini's studio in one shot would result in an unusable studio.
solitud's big-time right about one thing, tho...that rawer, early piece. Like I said, MS-20 Mini + SQ-1. True, there's people who carp and moan about how the Mini doesn't sound like a 'vintage' MS-20, and there's some truth there: it certainly doesn't sound quite like a 30+ year old box full of 30+ year old components with 30+ years of power cycling, usage, etc. But being one of the few people that I know of to have unboxed a minty-fresh 1st-gen MS-20 back in 1980 when they were still rolling off the production line and then being able to compare/contrast what I vividly recall of that synth with the minty-fresh 1st-gen Mini replica, let me assure you: it's a VERY faithful replica.
Hi all,
So I just bought a prebuilt rack off of someone. Link below. Can I get feedback on it. I mostly play guitar and piano, but have wanted to get into synthesizers for quite some time, specifically modular. I have a small budget of about $700 more dollars to get any essentials that I may still need. I was hoping to primarily get a lot of percussive sounds and ambient sounds out of this.
Thanks in advance. https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_645322.jpg
If I understand Mr Cortini right you already have anything you need. He said he can just use the Octatrack to create a song. The 0-Coast is your Buchla. The Analog 4 your EMS Synti AKS (o.k. that is an exaggeration).
If you want to expand: your sources are more on the well behaved clean side. Maybe you can add something more raw analog. A vintage VCO mono or a small Eurosystem (this is ModularGrid for a reason).
And you need of course a stompbox style larger than live fx unit, like BigSky, Mercury 7, Space, Bam ...
I just watched the cool video with Alessandro Cortini the synth master from NIN and he has a very expensive impressive cave of gear!
He has tons of Buchla and vintage synths. What would be a good setup for me to get to learn and not go broke to get those sounds? Right now I have an Elektron Octatrack, Elektron Analog 4 and Make Noise 0-coast that do sampling/sequencing and some basic patches. Looking to expand this on a budget that won't cost me a fortune.
Well, I sort of went a little over the top, mainly because I'd opted for a Mantis case, which offers a decent power supply in a very portable (you can even get a matching gigbag for it from Tiptop), inexpensive, and lightweight small case. The Mantis, however, is 2 x 104hp, not a single row, so I figured "ok...let's see if something that really can be a modular stand-out can be cobbled together here, something that gives this user some serious power in a portable cab while still keeping it controllable". Ergo:
OK, so it's not quite so minimal. However, this build not only functions as a modular guitar processing rig, it also has the capability of eliminating the need for several stompboxes. Let's look at this mo'fo...
Top row: first up is the input. Notice that this isn't merely a guitar-in jack. That module also contains the proper level and impedence matching for a guitar-in, plus it has an envelope follower and gate extractor. Envelope followers are the basic circuit in an auto-wah...but in this, you just get an adjustable voltage curve related to the input dynamics which can be sent anywhere as a control voltage. The gate extractor gets set to fire a gate signal when the input level crosses a certain level, so there's a lot of possibilities there, from triggering envelopes to audio 'squaring' the guitar signal. This has two sets of mults associated with it: the active is for splitting/buffering your audio so that it can parallel-feed modules, and the passive's two sections are for distributing the envelope follower and gate.
Then the audio processing chain (although, unlike a normal signal chain in a synth patch, there's no need to serially patch these, hence the active mult): octave divider, wavefolder (CV-able distortion/harmonic folding), Polaris VCF/phaser, EMW Triple Bandpass for three-way swept resonances, a Chronoblob delay (which has an insert point in its feedback path, perfect for mangling what the delay does), mono algorithmic reverb, a CV-able panner (useful for not only panning, but deriving stereo for the last two processors), the Erica Black Hole DSP for all sorts of digital mayhem, and a 4ms Stereo Looping Delay. I tried to get as much of this as was possible under CV control for modulation. To which...
Bottom row: the first four modules are ADDAC Pedal Integrators. Each of these allows for an expression pedal and a footswitch connection. The pedal can scale CV in all sorts of ways, and the footswitch can either be momentary for firing a trigger or, if held, a gate pulse, or you can use an on/off latching switch to turn a gate signal on and off. This allows the build a sizable degree of foot control integration, which is the typical guitar FX control paradigm.
Then the next 'thing'...this is a full-on Erogenous Tones Blip/Radar modulation setup. Basically, it's a complex but easily controllable array of AD/AR envelopes which can fire on trigger, in sequence, in looping arrangements, etc. This is the primary modulation source for the whole damn thing...and I'd say, as such, it's perfectly suited. The Blip is a controller for the Radar, allowing fast reconfiguration for the whole mess and, in a certain sense and depending on how this thing get patched up, allows for global behavior changes for the entire cab, depending on how much of the audio chain is being modulated by the Radar. It's VERY comprehensive; I suggest reading the module descriptions to see what it's capable of before deciding if it's 'too much' or not.
Two voltage controllable slope gens next...sort of more complex versions of the Radar envelopes on steroids. Then noise gen, dual VCO/LFO, and a fun little Doepfer module that incorporates a ring modulator (hence one of the VCO/LFOs), a sample and hold (that's why there's two VCO/LFOs; you need one to clock that) and a slew limiter to 'smear' the behavior of the S&H so it can be used as a randomly-fluctuating modulation source for an effect or two. Natch, you can also kill the slew lim, and that random behavior then becomes stepped.
Kickass 6-2 stereo mixer next, with all input levels under VCA control, manual stereo panning. A MSCL stereo comp/limiter after that before the Bastl Ciao! output, which also has an aux stereo in so that you can send one more stereo pair into the balanced outputs post-mixer, or you can use it to parallel the comp/limiter, or...well, lots of things.
This was sort of a bitch to work on due to the Mantis's depth constraint, but I double-checked on that and everything does fit. And at 1335mA on the +12V and 752mA on the -12 (no 5V!), we're nowhere near the Mantis's current limits. Sure, it's not quite so 'minimal'...but as a performance-capable cab, this pretty much trashes a typical pedalboard. There are so many control/modulation/processing possibilities here, it ain't funny! And a lot of it can be parallelled, using your expression controllers to fade effects processors in and out of the overall mix via the mixer VCAs. Raw power.
Oh, yeah...you won't even need an amp to practice with this, as the Ciao! incorporates a stereo headphone amp. Thought of everything!
Thanks, Lugia. I didn't think much about the case/pwr here. I was just trying to see if the modules added up to something meaningful. Right now I'm imagining that I will get a minimal case that's at least 3U/104hp, powered. I have assumed with the kind of thing I'm imagining would be fine with whichever basic power supply I might end up with (uZeus, e.g.).
