Understood. I´m currently fiddling around with excel sheets, listing the base data but most importantly keeping an inventory regarding number of balanced/unbalanced IO, impedances, digital interfaces etc. Much like the patches section, it would be awesome to have that in an easy to handle format.
My best bet at the moment is color coding the excel cells and the patchbay fields, so I´ll go with that for a while.
Thanks for the fast and clear answer!
:)
Modulargrid became an essential part of my studio setup, I love the inclusion of pedals. But what about 19" rack gear? I´m sure someone thought about that already, so was there a decision not to? Or is this on the roadmap?
That worked for me in the past, so a good practice!
Since I move from a few smaller cases to a DIY monster system, it becomes a bit unpractical though - that´s where that idea came from.
For all those who own a case like Mantis, Rackbrute, Go! etc... How do you keep track of the power zones?
Currently, I create 1 rack for physical layout and, depending on the number of power zones, 2 or 3 more racks for the power zones:
mantis physical
mantis zone a
mantis zone b
mantis zone c
This of course is less than ideal, because taking a module out of mantis means maintaining that change in two locations. Also, the relation between physical and electrical racks must be done in the naming of these racks.
Which brings me to a feature request/discussion:
"Sub Racks for Electric Layout"
Can we have an additional attribute of a rack named "parent rack" that allows for a hierarchical relation between racks? And then have that displayed as links on the parent? And maybe have the option to filter out all "child racks" in the rack main page?
RACK: mantis
+ mantis zone a (parent: mantis)
+ mantis zone b ...
+ mantis tone c ...
RACK: Rackbrute
+ rackbrute zone a
+ rackbrute zone b
About syncing between physical and electric layout: Ideally, one would have a dropdown option on modules:
- If module is in a top level (=parent, physical): Display all child racks as selectable targets
- If module is in a lower level (=child, electric): Display all child racks of the parent rack as targets
- If module is removed from top level, also remove child level instance
Not a full feature request yet, more like brainstorming.
Please discuss :)
So for now (and things will change in the long run ^^) I´d look at your setup this way:
Without computer PNW is a good choice, although I don´t have one. My concept is around a drum machine on steroids which integrates into a bigger setup, so external clock and computer. I also decided to eliminate hp as a limiting factor, which led to different choices. Maybe others can chime in on function per hp efficiency.
That said, for sequencing with variations: Metron has probability, so a certain amount of randomness is already in. It´s probably too much of an hp hog in 84, but I predict your system may grow bigger over time :D. Take a look at Euclidian Circles (vpme), Knight´s Gallop (shakmat) and Numeric or Zularic Repetitor (noise engineering). Reserve one or two tracks/sequencers for accents so you can treat them as split from the gate patterns if you want to. Like: standard 16th HH, then add a 7 step accent pattern or whatnot.
No sampling, but loops :) does not compute ^^.
As for mixing and effects, it depends on your workflow. For me, Kick is essential and this also comes with a rumble chain. I played around in Ableton to find out what I need and then built that with modules. That alone could eat 84hp ^^. A quick and very reliable way for kick is the jomox modbase, but there are many other good choices as well. It´s a deep module though, check whether it fits your case. I like my mutant drum modules as well, less experimental than, say, wmd, but spot on if your sounds are "around x0x". Effects depend. You may want to get some shared options like delay and reverb, but also have dedicated fx for "that clap every 4 bars". Also think about whether you really want to mix IN the case. The biggest reason would be mix automation/modulation. If you don´t really do that, an external mixer is way cheaper and offers more function wise (like 3-4 band eq, a number if aux channels etc). For Euro, I can recommend wmd performance mixer (no eq though) and befaco hexmix).
I don´t necessarily think a compressor needs to be slapped on everything, but found that it can help shaping the transients beyond what is normally given in any sound source. My advice is to build things in virtual, see what works, what you like and then build that in hardware. For example, I use a dedicated compressor (Lollipop) on Kick and Clap mainly to shape transient and texture. MSCL on the other hand is sitting on the drum+bass submix for saturation and pump.
Percussions: You will get most out of modules that offer a high level of modulation control. Plonk comes to mind. I´m sure there is tons of other options, I just found the name of the module is reason enough :D.
Oh and the most general advice: For every hp of sound plan 2-4hp of helper modules to really get to the fun stuff. For example: I 1:7 mult the modbase output to 3 elements of rumble chain, so I can play with those 4 elements. Adding some CV to the various components to introduce changes over 2, 4 or 8 bars is fun. Also multing the kick trigger signal to activate envelopes+VCAs, poor man´s compressor. Likewise, using metrons gates, triggers and CVs to rhythmically modulate sound changes... you get the idea. While a compressor would pump based on the actual audio signal, ENV+VCA could either follow a trigger pattern of a sound or could do something slightly - or completely - different. Put that on a pad sound for example... etc.
In my book using MSCL to just avoid clipping is an abuse :D. Just use an attenuator/vca/mixer and proper gainstaging if you run into level issues (although those can be nice in the sense of saturation).
Welcome to Euroland :)
The question leads to 1000 answers, but that´s normal at the beginning. What comes to mind:
I ended up with a full mantis case for drums, including a metron sequencer for grid programming and some modules for controlled randomness. Focussed on techno, I added some fx for a rumble chain (delay, reverb, eq, compressor) and a mixer to get a drums submix.
On the MSCL: Great module and you get the best results utilizing the sidechain (for example to duck the bassline). Not sure how this will be done in your setup.
Hope this helps!
Speaking of guitars, think of how you are going to get to the right signal levels. If you use an external preamp anyway, a good line level IO should do. Personally, I´d look for something with XLR connectors for balanced signals. That way, studio use or longer cables in a live setup are taken care of. Vermona TAI or ACL Audio Interface come to mind.
For effects, it depends on what you want to achieve. There are modular versions of well established pedal effects like the Strymons. To get more on the crazy modular side of things, Noise Engineering have a very versatile platform with their versio series: You can swap the firmware and change the module into a delay, reverb, distortion etc. The frontplate is labeled according to whether you buy it as reverb, delay, etc. but there are overlays available as well (either for specific firmwares or neutral "1,2,3...").
For every "cool module hp" plan 1-2 hp of "helper modules" such as multiples, mixers (audio and cv), vcas, polarizers, attenuverters etc. I like the Happy Nerding ones for their great build quality and use of dual pots (inner and outer pot, so 2 in the space of one). Probably throw in one or two EQs to adjust signals in between modules.
The case sports a lot of go-to modules and the selection is great. In a way it´s similar to my first case, although I wasn´t that sample oriented. What´s completely missing (I did the same) is a plethora of modulation helper modules: mults, switches, attenuators, polarizers, mixers, logic, vfa, vcf, eq. You´re likely to miss half the fun. Well, it took me 2 years to get to this point :D
My golden rule nowadays is: For every major module, buy 3-4 helper modules. They take their toll on $$$ and hp and are easily forgotten. They are as important as the "big ones" though.
Oh and yes, sort by price seems to work as expected now. Thanks for the fast fix!
If you have power left and run out of hp just call yourself lucky. Appreciate that your setup does not stress the PSU, it´s a much better place to be in compared to the opposite.
Also: If you go for new thingies, not all PSUs are created equal. For example, between my rackbrute and mantis, there is a HUGE difference regarding the power-on noise: the same module that POPS loudly in the rackbrute still pops in the mantis, but at a much more civilized level. And yes, this is a dediated output module and the level is set to zero. Still popping.
I´ve got the Wasp and love it for the more gritty things, as it´s a tad bit noisy. Love my AJH Gemini and generally like dual filters compared to patching two single. Totally understand the itch for K/Morgasmatron. Then again, there are things like the Serpent Modular Sirius, which I really like for its character. High on my wishlist are Bionic Lester and RT-451. Last buy was a wmd aperture, but can´t yet say if that is a keeper, as I only did a function test so far (used).
Not sure how far you can get with that budget, it may make more sense to stay in the software realm, which also has a few benefits over hardware (no I/O issues, total recall, instancing). You may easily end up editing things on the computer anyway. If you miss the hands-on, probably buy one or two MIDI controllers instead.
Hw or Sw, I´d say you would probably benefit more from FX than standard modules (although you still need a few of those). Maybe look for some purpose built tools like zynaptic wormhole or go "modular fx" with BIOME and the like.
If it has to be eurorack hardware, zoia euroburo comes to mind, but it wouldn´t be me first choice in the given scenario.
Yep for the first letter function, I sometimes just scroll up and down by the arrow keys as well. Still found it most convenient using the browser bookmarks if I´m in "hey, let´s see which VCAs the brands I trust have on their list".
I like the option to filter by modules I own vs. all modules on this planet. Unfortunately, if you own any module multiple times, this is not reflected. That´s why I built an "inventory system", ie a rack that holds the exact numbers of things I own. Building a new system from this inventory is not very smooth, picking from a list works much better.
Same things goes for "modules I´m interested in". If one was able to have another list on the "all modules/my modules" level, this would be very convenient to pick from while building or editing a system.
TLDR: Can we have customs lists besides "all modules" and "my modules". Doesn´t have to be an unlimited number, but, say, 5 would be awesome.
Brainstorm to Feature Request :)
When looking for modules, I find myself repeating the same search over and over again, each time selecting a different vendor. Otherwise (=all vendors), I end up with hundreds of results I´m not interested in, sometimes because I had bad experiences with a certain brand, don´t like their style etc. Other people may want to exclude certain brands for any other reason, as seen in endless discussions around a certain brands ethics and whatnot. Or you want a list of known open source supporting companies as the foundation of your search.
It would be very helpful if we could multi-select in the vendor drop down.
It would be super awesome if we could build a shortlist of preferred vendors and recall that for a search.
My best workaround at the moment is saving bookmarks for every vendor selected. This is at least more comfortable than scrolling through n pages in the vendor dropdown.
Totally agree, better have a working solution that omits a few modules than having no function at all. Maybe add all modules that come without a price tag at the end, no matter which way you sort the list.
The "sort by price" button seems to be broken (at least for me).
All I want is to filter for functions (or maybe other things) and then get a list with modules starting at the lowest price.
In the middle of a redesign, here are three things I missed. Maybe there are other users who feel the same need, so here are some ideas for future versions of MG.
Grouping Modules:
Select multiple modules and add them to a group, much like you can do that in graphics programs.
Reason: It seems many people arrange their modules in groups, either functional by type or building complete voices as macros etc. If playing around with hardware layouts for usability options, it´s painful to move each and every module on it´s own. Repetitive, likely to accidentally swap with some other module that you wanted to stay where it is. The less hp the worse. So grouping things would allow to move things in a single motion, much faster, more reliable.
Power Groups:
Currently we get total power consumption, split per row. On very broad systems, you may want to have two PSUs in a single row. Or just want to know how much power a voice block consumes, in case I want to move all of it´s modules to a separate place. By defining power groups and selecting which modules are members, power calculation can be much more flexible.
Combo Racks
Basically "groups of groups".
Think of two cases sitting next to each other. If you build a single rack in MG that covers the whole width, the power calculation is broken. If you build two separate racks, it´s hard to see the overall layout. Doesn´t get easier with 4 cases. An arrangement view that allows moving complete racks would be much appreciated. I currently use images and arrange them in external software. Would love to do that within MG.
Ideally, this would come as a tree structure, where you can build smaller racks (easier to navigate at normal zoom) and then combine them to a bigger picture. If you change something in one place, it should be updated in the other location(s) as well, so changes can be done on all levels.
Hi Cristoo,
I own both and agree with your initial thoughts. I would buy both again, just received my 2nd RB6U today and a 2nd Mantis is on the shopping list. Don´t assume you won´t want a bigger system, I made that mistake at the beginning, but see where that got me :).
Adding to your findings:
Rackbrute:
- Got my 2nd RB before the 2nd Mantis. I´m building a small portable system first, studio extension comes later. As that unit has mostly black faceplate modules, the RB looks much better. That does of course not impact how modules sound. It´s just a bit of eye candy on top of the important things.
- Metal case, more solid, but also much heavier.
- There is an Arturia softshell Travelbag that looks solid, has paddings etc. Check MW for reviews on the Mantis bag.
- Combine 2 RBs with a flexible angle between them, this also serves as a carrying handle. Much better suited for medium live systems if you perform or move between home studio and friend´s places.
- Said Combo gives you a gap between upper and lower, good if you can use that, bad if you don´t. I feed longer cables there to get them out of the way.
- Smaller PSU in an odd width (5hp). If you run out of power and can´t move modules between cases, there are option like StrongPWR (4hp). They add to the overall cost of course. I hit the limit, but was able to move things. Use modulargrid to estimate power consumption.
- Placement of PSU module is a bit limited, as the default cable to the distribution board is quite short. It has a standard connector though, an extension is possible, but may need a custom approach. I´m also concerned about interference, but that´s theoretical for now.
- No decksaver option, so dust protection must be improvised (or fold the upper above the lower in my case).
- Without the bracket, a single RB works great on desktop, but is still a bit higher than the Mantis. If you work in studio only and place it directly on the desktop, Mantis is preferred.
Mantis:
- Much more elegant formfactor, the curved design is just very, very nice. Does not alter sound, but makes the modular just so much sexier to look at. You may disagree. Looks great with silver faceplates.
- Plastic. Sturdy plastic, but plastic. Color may change over a long time, think old computers, but then again a paintjob can easily be done. I actually think about spraying mine in screaming orange, but that´s a different story.
- Fixed angle for the brackets. May or may not be a good thing, I can´t tell yet. The slight angle of the upper row is a godsend already, much appreciated, so I assume TTA did their homework. Brackets will give more stability, but I think I´ll probably skip them and build something with a custom angle.
- Dual Mantis is definitely immobile (when using brackets). Gives you gapless connection, pros and cons see above.
- Depending on your needs, price/performance ratio is on par with the RB, it´s just the question if you want to get mobility features vs power and space. Your usecase will decide that.
- Much beefier PSU, does not waste hp, more connectors from the board.
So in all honesty, it´s a draw in most cases unless your application would make one or the other difference a deciding factor.
Timeline of my shopping: RB #1, Mantis #2, RB #2. Next stop Mantis #2. So from my perspective, both are good value and I haven´t found any showstoppers.
Understood and thanks to both of you for the clear explanation! I wouldn´t like to burn more hp by adding a second PSU, so it´s either a beefier one or something completely external. I didn´t find too many module-based PSUs that offer substantially more power then the Arturia version (granted, at least they come in 4hp). Those torroidal transformers found in bigger cases come to mind,as they might allow for two smaller cases to be powered from a single PSU.
But I´ll give the cheapest option a go first, maybe I can rearrange modules and get around limits.
Given that the power supply eats 5hp and my planned design also exceeds the power specs by roughly 10 percent, I wonder what it takes to move to some external power solution, giving more power and saving 5hp. Has anyone done that?
Regarding the power specs: The Arturia reads 15V/3A on the frontplate, so that indicates the demand from the powerbrick. However, it´s only specified to deliver 12V/1.6A on the +12V distribution. That´s just half the amps... is this limited by the power module itself or is the distribution board limited to 1.6A ?
Is there a way to control to which rack a module is added?
I created 4 or 5 different racks and want to copy some modules of each into a new "buy this" rack. Therefore I opened each module in a separate tab, but "add to rack" does not add to the desired target. I closed all other tabs that have racks and only opened the "buy this" rack.
Any other workflow that would help?
Interesting thread!
For me, top-down works better than bottom-up. Here is what that means:
In a certain sense, I used my existing vanilla synths and fx as a modular system (on a different level) so far. When stacking synths, that´s similar to combining OSCs. Likewise, building processing chains like (Synth A open filter) -> (delay) -> (Synth B audio in) -> (pedals) and so on. I´d call this quarter-modular in contrast to semi-modular. Or quadrant-modular if you want to be a smart ass :D.
Next stop: Semi-modulars. Opening up the box-internal signal chains at some points, granting more access. A good point to get started and learn, as you don´t have to do everything from scratch, but can gradually grow into things. Just inserting a filter or adding that 2nd and 3rd LFO is pretty easy this way. Buying and learning on an "as needed" basis is more fun to me, as I get instant results I can use in my tracks.
And then of course, the next step is full modular, a.k.a. crack effect.
Hi,
I´m new here and to modulars, so please be patient with me :). Is there a way to "favorite" modules or even put them on separate lists, like for example in the thoman webshop or on amazon? Would be nice to have a few lists like "want to buy next" "look for these used" "filter modules" etc.
I understand the "my collection" list as an inventory of what you own and the best idea I had so far is building racks for that purpose or oversize the one I´m planning to build and put the options in the spare rows.
Thanks,
ID
